M1907 SL : sweeper, factory, or trench?

Comments

  • MarxistDictator
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    the Federov is bad too, full auto at the price of everything else

    Bad? You mean it's a bad gun or a noobish gun?
    Cause the first one is for sure not the case, at all.
    Second one can be discussed....

    It’s the worst of the CQB medic rifles (1907, AL .25, Cei). It has zero benefit for headshots which puts a low skill ceiling on it. It was also completely left behind by the TTK update, being the only medic rifle without an extension to its range besides the AL .25 which again has a much better TTK than this gun even without taking headshots into account.

    It is easy to use but there are much better options. The Optical is the best of this bunch but even that is hideously outclassed by the 1907 on which the Fed was in general ‘based on’. The 1907 has almost 1/3 more max damage range can 2 hit kill and has much more damage potential in each magazine. Besides obvious stinkers that have no niche anymore (Mondragon and 1906) I can’t think of any medic rifle I wouldn’t use over it.
  • ashar_saleem121
    1373 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    the Federov is bad too, full auto at the price of everything else

    Bad? You mean it's a bad gun or a noobish gun?
    Cause the first one is for sure not the case, at all.
    Second one can be discussed....

    It’s the worst of the CQB medic rifles (1907, AL .25, Cei). It has zero benefit for headshots which puts a low skill ceiling on it. It was also completely left behind by the TTK update, being the only medic rifle without an extension to its range besides the AL .25 which again has a much better TTK than this gun even without taking headshots into account.

    It is easy to use but there are much better options. The Optical is the best of this bunch but even that is hideously outclassed by the 1907 on which the Fed was in general ‘based on’. The 1907 has almost 1/3 more max damage range can 2 hit kill and has much more damage potential in each magazine. Besides obvious stinkers that have no niche anymore (Mondragon and 1906) I can’t think of any medic rifle I wouldn’t use over it.

    Hey I like using the 1906 Sniper. But to your point, yes it's trash lol
  • The_BERG_366
    2766 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    the Federov is bad too, full auto at the price of everything else

    Bad? You mean it's a bad gun or a noobish gun?
    Cause the first one is for sure not the case, at all.
    Second one can be discussed....

    It’s the worst of the CQB medic rifles (1907, AL .25, Cei). It has zero benefit for headshots which puts a low skill ceiling on it. It was also completely left behind by the TTK update, being the only medic rifle without an extension to its range besides the AL .25 which again has a much better TTK than this gun even without taking headshots into account.

    It is easy to use but there are much better options. The Optical is the best of this bunch but even that is hideously outclassed by the 1907 on which the Fed was in general ‘based on’. The 1907 has almost 1/3 more max damage range can 2 hit kill and has much more damage potential in each magazine. Besides obvious stinkers that have no niche anymore (Mondragon and 1906) I can’t think of any medic rifle I wouldn’t use over it.

    Well you seem to underestimate the advantages of a high firerate in a game like this, that is dominated by high spread and suppression effects. It being outclassed is ridiculous and only applies if you full auto fire it at all ranges (which is the wrong thing to do at anything but in cqb gunfights).
    The main strengths are its versatility and consistency. Its not really the best at anything but really good at everything. For example, it's significantly better at range then the other cqb slrs due to similar or higher dps along with better recoil, less spread (when tabfiring) and higher rof (which punshied you less for non-perfect aim, which everybody has). Depending on which slr you compare it to exactly the advantages will be a specific subset of the reasons listed above, not necessarily the whole set.
    Comparing it specifically to the 1907, it's simply more accurate and consistent at range as well as in cqb. The only range where the 1907 could have a slight edge is between 30 and 50 meters or so. However that is the range where the recoil and spread starts to matter which work in the favour of the fedorov.
    I also don't know why you say that it doesn't benefit from headshots, it absolutely does and one has an easier time pulling them off consistently then with a 1907.

    After all, there is a reason why it was often banned and otherwise often picked in comp tournaments, while the 1907 barely saw any use at all.
  • MarxistDictator
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I keep bringing up headshots because every single medic rifle except this one can 2 hit kill with only one headshot. Even if you hit 2 back to back headshots with the Federov the enemy still has like 4 health or whatever. Therefore in the hands of a strong player with good aim the Federov will not be taking advantage of headshots at all. And yeah full auto is nice but it’s far from the end all of this game. Especially when you consider that same full auto damage output is behind the rest of the autos even after they experience damage fall off but the Federov hasn’t. Inside that range it’s even worse and my desire to use other guns is even stronger. There’s like a 20-30m niche for the Federov at best which is sad. The 1907 eclipses it in damage output. When your only notable advantage is horizontal recoil in a range where it does not matter the overall advantage to the gun is quite small. And beyond 30m the Federov is pathetic.
  • The_BERG_366
    2766 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I keep bringing up headshots because every single medic rifle except this one can 2 hit kill with only one headshot. Even if you hit 2 back to back headshots with the Federov the enemy still has like 4 health or whatever. Therefore in the hands of a strong player with good aim the Federov will not be taking advantage of headshots at all. And yeah full auto is nice but it’s far from the end all of this game. Especially when you consider that same full auto damage output is behind the rest of the autos even after they experience damage fall off but the Federov hasn’t. Inside that range it’s even worse and my desire to use other guns is even stronger. There’s like a 20-30m niche for the Federov at best which is sad. The 1907 eclipses it in damage output. When your only notable advantage is horizontal recoil in a range where it does not matter the overall advantage to the gun is quite small. And beyond 30m the Federov is pathetic.
    yeah thats true but that doesnt mean theres "zero benefit for headshots". you confuse "taking less advantage than other guns" with "taking no advantage at all", two very different concepts. Also, this only applies on ranges where the guns do max damage. after that, there is no such general advantage of other guns. 
    as i said, that is not the case for in game scenarios. Theoretical ttk is useless without considering spread and recoil as well. The 1907 simply isn't as accurate and hence can't take advantage of its slightly faster theoreitcal ttk. i mean by this argument the smg08 is superior to both of these guns above 40 meters wich is obviously absurd. On top of that, its lower rof really hurts it when being shot at in comparison to the fedorov. 
    Well you just claiming its pathetic beyond 30 meters doesnt change the fact that its actually still really good and superior to the m1907 above 50 meters. The fedorov is simply a better 1v1 gun due to the reasons i mentioned, hence why people would pick it for comp matches while they wouldn't pick the m1907. Dont get me wrong, i really like the 1907 and used it extensively, but that is not its strength and not why i used it. The 1907 is one of these guns that really works great when the user is simply better than most of his opposition. however, if the opposition is on a similar level its effectivenss (relative to alternative gun choices) decreases significantly. 

  • MarxistDictator
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    You can fire the 1907 within 10% of its max RoF without spread increase, which the other 2 non optical variants of the Federov can’t even do. Same with basically every medic rifle. Try using them before claiming such nonsense. The SMG 08/18 meanwhile has some of the most inaccurate base spread in the SMG class the largest first shot multipliers for spread and recoil and the highest horizontal recoil in the kit. Disingenuous comparisons are weakening your position if anything.

    And yeah not being able to do anything beyond shave a bullet makes for a huge TTK difference, at best you get Automatico TTK with the Federov with a headshot while most of the other medic rifles are faster than 4 frames. This is not insignificant either. What the Federov gains in ease of use it sacrifices in overall effectiveness in the hands of a good player, this is literally how it was balanced. Basically a trap gun, so you can forever be stuck under a ceiling of mediocre performance. And yeah the range for OTHER medic rifles is not to be discounted either, 37-70m is a lot better and will include a lot more fights than 28m.

    And the 1907 is better than the Federov in the entirety of the niche range of a CQB medic rifle so I don’t really care that the Federov is slightly better than it beyond that. 6 bullet kills at that slow RoF and without even negative spread or something to make it actually consistently achieveable is laughable. You will lose to the Ribbeyrolles most of the time which isn’t even a good distance weapon either, you will get slaughtered by all LMGs and all distance suited SLRs too. Not a strong point.
  • The_BERG_366
    2766 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    You can fire the 1907 within 10% of its max RoF without spread increase, which the other 2 non optical variants of the Federov can’t even do. Same with basically every medic rifle. Try using them before claiming such nonsense. The SMG 08/18 meanwhile has some of the most inaccurate base spread in the SMG class the largest first shot multipliers for spread and recoil and the highest horizontal recoil in the kit. Disingenuous comparisons are weakening your position if anything.

    And yeah not being able to do anything beyond shave a bullet makes for a huge TTK difference, at best you get Automatico TTK with the Federov with a headshot while most of the other medic rifles are faster than 4 frames. This is not insignificant either. What the Federov gains in ease of use it sacrifices in overall effectiveness in the hands of a good player, this is literally how it was balanced. Basically a trap gun, so you can forever be stuck under a ceiling of mediocre performance. And yeah the range for OTHER medic rifles is not to be discounted either, 37-70m is a lot better and will include a lot more fights than 28m.

    And the 1907 is better than the Federov in the entirety of the niche range of a CQB medic rifle so I don’t really care that the Federov is slightly better than it beyond that. 6 bullet kills at that slow RoF and without even negative spread or something to make it actually consistently achieveable is laughable. You will lose to the Ribbeyrolles most of the time which isn’t even a good distance weapon either, you will get slaughtered by all LMGs and all distance suited SLRs too. Not a strong point.
    yeah, you can't do that with the trench and degtyarev in deed, but neither can you do this with the 1907 trench or sweeper. There is in fact a slight advantage of the 1907 factory over the fedorov in this regard, simply because its a factory variant. However, the superior basespread of the fedorov optical makes up for that allowing the fedorov (optical, im always refering to the optical here) to be fired at 90% of its max rate of fire for 8 or 21 shots respectivley (standing still vs moving at maximal possible speed while being ads) until the spread of the next shots actually exceeds the the minimum spread of the 1907. And keep in mind here, that each shot fired BEFORE that, gives a distinct advantage in terms of accuracy to the fedorov. So even after it exceeds the limit the average accuracy of all the shots fired previously remains to be better on the fedorov for some more shots. And all of this is just assuming that you're not being shot at and hence suffering from supression, which is very common in this game. Anyways, the limiting factor of the 1907 (factory at least) is recoil for the most part, especially at medium and long ranges. The horizontal recoil is so significant, that the time it takes to reset it is at average far greater than the time it takes for the spread to reset, limiting its ability to shoot quickly and accurately at range, which brings me back to consistency. A huge interval of horizontal recoil just makes the gun inconsistent as the timing in between shots relies heavily on how far away the horizontal recoil value is from zero for each shot. The only solution to this is to just tabing it a bit slower, which in turn hurts the dps, hence why i said its really good when the user is simply better than his opposition. if that is the case, you don't really need the maximum possible amount of dps, however if everyone is at a similar level you want to squeeze out all the dps you possibly can. 

    Now it seems that you are unable to understand what this example was supposed to show. As i said, its nonsense to just compare pure dps without taking into account recoil and spread. Hence i chose an example where these two factors have a big impact on the performance of the gun to show that a pure dps comparison yields absurd results. You call me out for making a disingenuous comparison, which is ironic, as this comparison is of the kind you made yourself and the only reason i made it is in fact to showcase the disingenuous nature of such comparisons. 

    Its not in general an no comparison of performance assuming perfect aim will change that. Higher rof at the same dps is always an advantage and we have advantages in recoil on top of that as well....
    Now considering that you like to degrade others opinions based on their experience so much, ill just go ahead and make the bold claim that you lack significant experience in playing against players that are at a similar level as you. 'Try to do that before claiming such nonsense' :smile: .

    again, the ribeyrolles point makes it perfectly clear that you still aren't able to take into account differences that go beyond pure theoretical dps. Are you just looking at ttk charts on sym and then conclude that one gun is better than the other if its line is lower than the one of another gun? Due to the significantly larger first shot spread increase on the ribey and its higher recoil is not viable for tabfiring, meaning that it simply can't compete with the accuracy of a fedorov at range, at all. To use your words: you are clueless if you think a ribey is a more effective gun at range than a fedorov (optical). 

  • MarxistDictator
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 14
    Yeah I’ll keep harping on TTK because inside that range what you see is what you get, you’re not getting enough dispersion to miss man sized targets even with pistol hip fire (0.8 degrees). So yes weapons that are well under that and stay well under half that in the time it takes to kill one target that kill faster than the Federov are better in that range, yes. Even BF3 LMGs are not unreliable within 30m and they have over 2.5x the base spread. It’s completely out of touch with reality.

    And if you want to shoot smaller targets than that, like people in cover, you would probably want to have some benefit for headshots. Not shooting a forehead peaking over a trench 2 times for no kill. Ribbeyrolles also has a bipod that will deploy in this situation on top of it being a better gun inside 42m by far so yes I would still rather use the Ribbeyrolles.

    Pretty much reaching a point of nonsense where recoil and spread are being greatly exaggerated to the point it’s clearly player issue and not anything to do with the game. Cool, you and every other Fed user overrates this gun extremely, this much has been proven. I regularly stomp on someone who has over 200k kills with the Optical with just about any other gun in the kit besides the 2 I already mentioned that the Federov is more effective than (even then the 1906 will win 1v1 because that’s its only niche). It’s basically balanced exactly as it should be: an out for players who don’t want to put in the effort to use the better guns in the kit, but a lower overall ceiling of effectiveness. If I want to go the ‘headshots are meaningless as medic’ route the RSC is 100 times better because it’s TTK to the body is equal to that of the BAR in 12m, only out to 70m.
  • The_BERG_366
    2766 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Yeah I’ll keep harping on TTK because inside that range what you see is what you get, you’re not getting enough dispersion to miss man sized targets even with pistol hip fire (0.8 degrees). So yes weapons that are well under that and stay well under half that in the time it takes to kill one target that kill faster than the Federov are better in that range, yes. Even BF3 LMGs are not unreliable within 30m and they have over 2.5x the base spread. It’s completely out of touch with reality.

    And if you want to shoot smaller targets than that, like people in cover, you would probably want to have some benefit for headshots. Not shooting a forehead peaking over a trench 2 times for no kill. Ribbeyrolles also has a bipod that will deploy in this situation on top of it being a better gun inside 42m by far so yes I would still rather use the Ribbeyrolles.

    Pretty much reaching a point of nonsense where recoil and spread are being greatly exaggerated to the point it’s clearly player issue and not anything to do with the game. Cool, you and every other Fed user overrates this gun extremely, this much has been proven. I regularly stomp on someone who has over 200k kills with the Optical with just about any other gun in the kit besides the 2 I already mentioned that the Federov is more effective than (even then the 1906 will win 1v1 because that’s its only niche). It’s basically balanced exactly as it should be: an out for players who don’t want to put in the effort to use the better guns in the kit, but a lower overall ceiling of effectiveness. If I want to go the ‘headshots are meaningless as medic’ route the RSC is 100 times better because it’s TTK to the body is equal to that of the BAR in 12m, only out to 70m.

    What is "that range"? Less than 20 meters? If so, absolutely, spread for the most part is insignificant in comparisons for such gunfights at least when shooting at "man sized targets". However, 450 vs 300 RPM is not. Keep in mind though that I never said that the fedorov is straight up superior to the 1907 in cqb, it is in fact not imo. However, the fedorov has clear advantages at further ranges and when shooting at small targets (aka adad spamming headglitchers) at shorter ranges already in deed.
    I already established that there is in fact advantages to hitting headshots over bodyshots. The difference is just that within max damage range this advantage is smaller on the fedorov, its not inexistent...
    The problem remains the same. All the dps is useless if you don't hit the head of a headglitcher due to a possible 0.6 degree kick to one side at the wrong time. RELIABILITY!

    As I said, you are clueless if you think the ribeys spread and recoil are insignificant at even just 40 meters. Also the bipod lol. A bipod makes you a sitting duck that will easily get instakilled by a good player within the effective range of a ribey.

    "player issue" :joy:
    You're controlling yourself well there. I assume you would probably love to call me trash because I don't have a 6 kd or something. Anyways, I'm convinced that I'm a better infantry player than you (or at least have been when I played this game regularly). I have more experience than you in terms of comp play and what metas were present. My stats with both the guns in question are also far better than yours so I doubt youre in a position to reduce our differences in opinion to insufficient ability or knowledge on my part. :smile:
    Cool, u stomp some pub stompers that use it, I could say the same about the 8.25 or the 1907, hardly a good argument. What do you mean by "even"? Of course you should win 1v1s with the 1906. As you said yourself, that's the one thing the 1906 is really good at. How is it a good argument for the weakness of a gun, that one can beat it with a different gun while playing to the strength of that different gun? Like wtf?

    Oh the rsc is incredible. One might even argue its the best 1v1 gun in the game (although the 8.35 marksman is a very strong contender too and imo stronger in 1v1s). I think you still misunderstanding my point. As I said at the very beginning of the discussion. The fedorov isn't really the best at anything, but it's still really good at everything.
  • WetFishDB
    2326 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Tough as they are so similar. I’ve 100 service stars on the Factory and Trench, and getting closer with the Sweeper and I seem to perform about the same with the lot. Probably a fractional preference towards the Trench for me.
  • TheGM86
    896 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The amount of coping Federov users have about their chosen gun is amusing. look how hard BREG is flailing about trying to justify their use of a bad gun. nobody cares you use a bad gun. the question is why are you so bothered about a bad gun being called bad. Do you think people are calling you bad for using it?
  • MarxistDictator
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    It’s basically the same level of cognitive dissonance you get from BF V players who call BF1 gunplay random so they can claim they actually improved anything with that game. Remember there’s just so much spread and you can’t do anything about it except use guns with full auto but terrible DPS.
  • The_BERG_366
    2766 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TheGM86 wrote: »
    The amount of coping Federov users have about their chosen gun is amusing. look how hard BREG is flailing about trying to justify their use of a bad gun. nobody cares you use a bad gun. the question is why are you so bothered about a bad gun being called bad. Do you think people are calling you bad for using it?

    Not sure what your intention is with this comment. This is a discussion forum, we discuss things. If I see a comment that I disagree with I may make a counterpoint, that's the point of a forum.
    I'm not trying to justify my use of a gun in a game I don't even play anymore. It's simply not true that it is bad, as simple as that. If you have an issue with me disagreeing then this might be the wrong place for you.
    My arguments are valid and there is a distinct lack of arguments that would refute mine. I clearly lined out what the problems with his arguments were. As you don't bring up any counterpoints you can get off your high horse.
    Now, let me ask you. What are you trying to achieve with this comment?
  • The_BERG_366
    2766 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    It’s basically the same level of cognitive dissonance you get from BF V players who call BF1 gunplay random so they can claim they actually improved anything with that game. Remember there’s just so much spread and you can’t do anything about it except use guns with full auto but terrible DPS.

    Given that you showcased your complete misunderstanding of this games mechanics on multiple occasions in the past (for example in terms of first shot spread of lmgs) , your judgement about my "cognitive dissonance" doesn't concern me much.
  • Titan_Awaken
    1232 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Oh brother, how did a simple “which one do you prefer” thread turn into a heated debate about gun stats?

    And to address the topic: when it comes to medic rifles, the M1907 isn’t really my preferred weapon of choice but if I had to pick one, I’d pick the Sweeper variant.
  • MarxistDictator
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Yea still nothing compared to blaming spread for your own failings in the extremely tiny range where the Federov manages to only be outclassed by most of the weapons in the game instead of all of them. Shuffle on.
  • TheGM86
    896 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TheGM86 wrote: »
    The amount of coping Federov users have about their chosen gun is amusing. look how hard BREG is flailing about trying to justify their use of a bad gun. nobody cares you use a bad gun. the question is why are you so bothered about a bad gun being called bad. Do you think people are calling you bad for using it?

    As you don't bring up any counterpoints you can get off your high horse.
    Now, let me ask you. What are you trying to achieve with this comment?

    Implying I'm talking to you.
  • brosandwitch23
    5 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Oh brother, how did a simple “which one do you prefer” thread turn into a heated debate about gun stats?

    And to address the topic: when it comes to medic rifles, the M1907 isn’t really my preferred weapon of choice but if I had to pick one, I’d pick the Sweeper variant.
    what weapon you usually use?

  • The_BERG_366
    2766 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Yea still nothing compared to blaming spread for your own failings in the extremely tiny range where the Federov manages to only be outclassed by most of the weapons in the game instead of all of them. Shuffle on.

    Ah my own failings, here we go again. I guess that's your last resort argument in any discussion huh? "You're just too bad so you don't understand".
    Anyways my argument goes ways beyond just spread. The ironic thing is that unlike me, you actually DID blame spread for your own failings when claiming this nonsense about lmgs. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones....
  • The_BERG_366
    2766 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TheGM86 wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Implying I'm talking to you.

    Yet another misunderstanding of what a forum is. If you want to pm someone go ahead. If you post in a public forum you shouldn't be surprised if people respond, especially when you mention them by name lmao.
Sign In or Register to comment.