[Discussion] Retrospective over the lack of portable mortars in BFV

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  • Hawxxeye
    7747 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 11
    Trokey66 said:
      BFV has suffered to much from the input of tryhards and the persuit of competitive e-sports resulting in a no fun, hardcore lite game that (relatively) few enjoy.
    BF games should go back to be  "HAHA everything goes BRRRRR" type of fun game.
    BFV indeed put too much effort to place on a pedestal the  ADADADADAD dodge + Muscle memory and 1440 144hz monitor, gunplay hero.
  • ElliotLH
    9542 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 11
    How would people feel if they were a stationary weapon like the Pak40s and MG emplacements (or the Livens projector and siege cannons from BF1)?

    I miss having mortars but understand why some players don't like them, so I'm curious how people feel about them being static.
  • DingoKillr
    4348 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    ElliotLH said:
    How would people feel if they were a stationary weapon like the Pak40s and MG emplacements (or the Livens projector and siege cannons from BF1)?

    I miss having mortars but understand why some players don't like them, so I'm curious how people feel about them being static.
    Stationary fixed location has a problem as could leave a secure spot for campers out of range. ROF and damage needs to be reasonable but type of targeting is still an issue. Pickup or towable could fix the out of reach problems.
  • ElliotLH
    9542 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Stationary fixed location has a problem as could leave a secure spot for campers out of range. ROF and damage needs to be reasonable but type of targeting is still an issue. Pickup or towable could fix the out of reach problems.

    That's true and pickup or towable would probably be a better idea.

    The targeting would indeed need to be looked at as well. Last thing we need are people playing a point and click adventure from OOB again.
  • Trokey66
    9102 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    ElliotLH wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Stationary fixed location has a problem as could leave a secure spot for campers out of range. ROF and damage needs to be reasonable but type of targeting is still an issue. Pickup or towable could fix the out of reach problems.

    That's true and pickup or towable would probably be a better idea.

    The targeting would indeed need to be looked at as well. Last thing we need are people playing a point and click adventure from OOB again.

    You make a weapon 'pick up' or 'towable', it has to be worth using in terms of range and power. It then becomes in danger of being another BF1 Mortar Truck and we don't want that.

    BF1 Mortars were fine, in my opinion but ammo type should be selectable like BF3.
  • ragnarok013
    3877 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Trokey66 said:
    ElliotLH wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Stationary fixed location has a problem as could leave a secure spot for campers out of range. ROF and damage needs to be reasonable but type of targeting is still an issue. Pickup or towable could fix the out of reach problems.

    That's true and pickup or towable would probably be a better idea.

    The targeting would indeed need to be looked at as well. Last thing we need are people playing a point and click adventure from OOB again.

    You make a weapon 'pick up' or 'towable', it has to be worth using in terms of range and power. It then becomes in danger of being another BF1 Mortar Truck and we don't want that.

    BF1 Mortars were fine, in my opinion but ammo type should be selectable like BF3.

    Trokey66 Personally I'd rather have them like the BF3 mortars were before the final fire rate nerf but the ammo selection is a hugely important thing. Even after the mortars were nerfed into the ground smoke was still a viable option to drop on snipers to force them to move
  • Trokey66
    9102 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    Trokey66 Personally I'd rather have them like the BF3 mortars were before the final fire rate nerf but the ammo selection is a hugely important thing. Even after the mortars were nerfed into the ground smoke was still a viable option to drop on snipers to force them to move

    I'd be happy with either as long as ammo is selectable.
  • Noodlesocks
    3628 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    That never stopped in BFV as people on the Breakthrough Aerodrome map can attest to.Good luck taking our the British tanks shooting from out of bounds without your own tanks or like 1 regular tank slot at a time on the last 2 sectors.
    They had cleverly blocked mortars from deploying in the uncaps at some point in  a previous game and fixed the inaccessible parts.

    This was in BF3 because of whinging!

    It also created far greater problems than it cured considering the regularity that spawn traps occurred in that game. It meant that the trapped team couldn't deploy Mortars to pop smoke to cover a break out (ammo types were selectable in that game and not a separate 'gadget') but the trappers could pound them with impunity!

    Bad decision!

    It should also be noted that BF3 Mortar range was a tad excessive.

    BF4 Mortars could be operated 'remotely' which again, was a bad decision but other than that were OK.

    BF1 Mortars, even with 'drone view' were not that bad as their range was relatively short compared to previous iterations because OHKs from full health were very rare. The 'drone view' only helped if the target remained stationary.

    Oh, and unless you can see the enemy or are at least aware of their presence, pretty much every death can be considered 'random', so that is a pointless argument!

    As some above stated, BFV has suffered to much from the input of tryhards and the persuit of competitive e-sports resulting in a no fun, hardcore lite game that (relatively) few enjoy.

    I remember them nerfing the mortars in BF3 because of one single map (Seine crossing) where you could almost shoot from uncap to uncap. Always bothered me because the changes made mortars almost useless in every other map
  • DingoKillr
    4348 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 12
    If modes like has breakthrough, airborne or rush. BF3 no mortar in spawn would make some those maps hard to play if 1 team has space to deploy but the other does not. Some appear to have space to deploy outside spawn but range would be a very interesting as I think current BF1 or BF3 might be to short.

    The only other issue with BF3 mortar I had was the lack of arc it meant no block shots or allow for some trick shots.
  • Trokey66
    9102 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 13
    (Quote)
    I remember them nerfing the mortars in BF3 because of one single map (Seine crossing) where you could almost shoot from uncap to uncap. Always bothered me because the changes made mortars almost useless in every other map

    Granted the range at one point was a tad excessive but counter Mortaring was easy and effective. Typical of the average tryhard though, they'd rather come here to whinge rather than change class to deal with the threat.
    Post edited by Trokey66 on
  • trip1ex
    5228 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 12
    yeah never saw the problem with bf1 infantry mortar.  It was a great tool to use to dislodge enemies from entrenched positions.  I thought the short range and the fact you could see the shells in the air made it so it wasn't cheap.  You could also hear the mortar hit and then you knew to stay on your toes.  And in some cases, because of the short range, you could rush the mortar and kill the enemy manning it.  

    Maybe they could have tried to add a little more skill to it but I think the reality was that that was just too difficult or wasn't worth it.    iirc, in BF42, the sniper binocs actually could spot for the mortar vehicle to give the mortar vehicle an idea of what it was doing otherwise the mortar was completely blind.   You basically saw thru the sniper's binocs when you mortared stuff.   It made the mortar more effective, but you had to judge where your shots would land still so there was a little more skill/judgement required than aiming at a red circle on a 2d map.  But it was pretty much never used on pubs.  REquired too much coordination/patience.

    They could have tried that in bf1.  Probably still wouldn't be used much but there are squads now and voice comms built in.    In BF42 there weren't squads and voice comms weren't built in.  

    OR they could have done another version of it too where a sniper flare gives the mortar a 3rd person camera over the flare area and then the mortar would use that to aim their shots instead of a 2d minimap with red circles.  That way the sniper doesn't have to sit around and coordinate with a mortar soldier.  


  • chinook240
    126 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:

    That is why it is called a retrospective discussion. We try to get a point across about what mistakes should not repeat from BFV to BF6
    I tried to get the debate going 18 months ago, clearly made a big impact (no pun intended)!

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/186340/why-are-mortars-missing
  • Hawxxeye
    7747 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:

    That is why it is called a retrospective discussion. We try to get a point across about what mistakes should not repeat from BFV to BF6
    I tried to get the debate going 18 months ago, clearly made a big impact (no pun intended)!

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/186340/why-are-mortars-missing
    It was still during the middle of the life of the game where they had committed to not give us mortars.
    They have the chance to start with a clean slate for BF6 yet
  • ragnarok013
    3877 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Trokey66 said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    That never stopped in BFV as people on the Breakthrough Aerodrome map can attest to.Good luck taking our the British tanks shooting from out of bounds without your own tanks or like 1 regular tank slot at a time on the last 2 sectors.
    They had cleverly blocked mortars from deploying in the uncaps at some point in  a previous game and fixed the inaccessible parts.

    This was in BF3 because of whinging!

    It also created far greater problems than it cured considering the regularity that spawn traps occurred in that game. It meant that the trapped team couldn't deploy Mortars to pop smoke to cover a break out (ammo types were selectable in that game and not a separate 'gadget') but the trappers could pound them with impunity!

    Bad decision!

    It should also be noted that BF3 Mortar range was a tad excessive.

    BF4 Mortars could be operated 'remotely' which again, was a bad decision but other than that were OK.

    BF1 Mortars, even with 'drone view' were not that bad as their range was relatively short compared to previous iterations because OHKs from full health were very rare. The 'drone view' only helped if the target remained stationary.

    Oh, and unless you can see the enemy or are at least aware of their presence, pretty much every death can be considered 'random', so that is a pointless argument!

    As some above stated, BFV has suffered to much from the input of tryhards and the persuit of competitive e-sports resulting in a no fun, hardcore lite game that (relatively) few enjoy.

    I remember them nerfing the mortars in BF3 because of one single map (Seine crossing) where you could almost shoot from uncap to uncap. Always bothered me because the changes made mortars almost useless in every other map

    Noodlesocks they also prevented mortars from firing from the base in a later patch so DICE almost "Famas'd" the Mortar in BF3 by the end.
  • bigiain
    383 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Mortars were never too big a problem before Breakthrough was introduced, players were too static if they were getting killed regularly by them. Breakthrough really limits where a defender can be though and you'll often be on top of team mates, stopping easy movement. 

    As well as the balance problem, like the heavy bomber and the artillery truck, mortars basically taught noobs to stay off the flags in BF1.
  • ninjapenquinuk
    2247 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    BF is meant to be a team game, so mortars could easily be made into a teamwork gadget. We needed coloured smoke in V so you could call in aircraft to hit a specific point, and the same/similar could be done with mortars. Allow the squad leader to assign a target for any mortars in their squad via the mini map no overhead  view just blind firing at a point designated by the s/l. At the mo, squad leader is just the guy who gets to call an arty strike, but they could be so much more.  
  • Hawxxeye
    7747 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    bigiain said:
    Mortars were never too big a problem before Breakthrough was introduced, players were too static if they were getting killed regularly by them. Breakthrough really limits where a defender can be though and you'll often be on top of team mates, stopping easy movement. 

    As well as the balance problem, like the heavy bomber and the artillery truck, mortars basically taught noobs to stay off the flags in BF1.
    But the defenders in Breakthrough have a massive advantage anyway.
  • CT1924
    1350 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It would have been a hinderance. The PIAT functions as a limited mortar, which I absolutely love, though.
    Perhaps a proper mortar pickup, but no gadget.
  • Hawxxeye
    7747 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    CT1924 said:
    It would have been a hinderance. The PIAT functions as a limited mortar, which I absolutely love, though.
    Perhaps a proper mortar pickup, but no gadget.
    Yeah, I understand we do not want to encourage  a considerable number of people to stand back and just go mortar. Being a gadget also forces the dilution of its power too.

  • CSO7777
    1844 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 14
    Hawxxeye said:
    CT1924 said:
    It would have been a hinderance. The PIAT functions as a limited mortar, which I absolutely love, though.
    Perhaps a proper mortar pickup, but no gadget.
    Yeah, I understand we do not want to encourage  a considerable number of people to stand back and just go mortar. Being a gadget also forces the dilution of its power too.

    The problem is that some maps just encourage using mortars and this then gets abused by the community (and the offending maps become almost unplayable or extremely annoying to play at least). On most maps it is not a problem, but having a game-mechanic that can be "abused" this way is just bad.

    Dice must limit the number of mortars being used and making it a pickup weapon could be fine way to do it.
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