Is the AA Gun OP

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  • MarxistDictator
    5177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Yeah most MGs do 2-3 damage per bullet vs the attack plane and even more to the fighter.

    a BAR will do 60 damage to an attack plane in a single magazine, which means with 1 other player shooting that plane is dead. machine gunners on vehicles are like AA guns of older games.

    nevermind the fact that bullets can also inflict crashes with wing/tail/engine disables too. nope, ground is totally powerless vs air.
  • Rotank
    981 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Yeah most MGs do 2-3 damage per bullet vs the attack plane and even more to the fighter.

    a BAR will do 60 damage to an attack plane in a single magazine, which means with 1 other player shooting that plane is dead. machine gunners on vehicles are like AA guns of older games.

    nevermind the fact that bullets can also inflict crashes with wing/tail/engine disables too. nope, ground is totally powerless vs air.

    This is what I don't understand. Before the game released, everybody was overjoyed that aircraft could FINALLY be damaged with small arms fire (and frankly, I personally thought that at least choppers should have taken damage from small arms in BF4, like in older games, but I digress). Even pilots were looking forward to the challenge from the removal of lock-on weaponry and the addition of a more skill-based AA option.

    And now, even though there is STILL a spawnable MAA, small arms fire still does damage to aircraft... and not to mention that there are more plane types and diversity within aircraft gameplay itself... people still claim that it's the "only" way to deal with them.

    And I have still yet to see any advocates for more aircraft/AA balance call for the removal of AA or any other core gameplay elements. But I HAVE seen people advocate for the removal of aircraft entirely from the Battlefield series.
  • [Deleted User]
    0 posts Member
    edited October 2016
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  • Trokey66
    8987 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Rotank wrote: »
    Yeah most MGs do 2-3 damage per bullet vs the attack plane and even more to the fighter.

    a BAR will do 60 damage to an attack plane in a single magazine, which means with 1 other player shooting that plane is dead. machine gunners on vehicles are like AA guns of older games.

    nevermind the fact that bullets can also inflict crashes with wing/tail/engine disables too. nope, ground is totally powerless vs air.

    This is what I don't understand. Before the game released, everybody was overjoyed that aircraft could FINALLY be damaged with small arms fire (and frankly, I personally thought that at least choppers should have taken damage from small arms in BF4, like in older games, but I digress). Even pilots were looking forward to the challenge from the removal of lock-on weaponry and the addition of a more skill-based AA option.

    And now, even though there is STILL a spawnable MAA, small arms fire still does damage to aircraft... and not to mention that there are more plane types and diversity within aircraft gameplay itself... people still claim that it's the "only" way to deal with them.

    And I have still yet to see any advocates for more aircraft/AA balance call for the removal of AA or any other core gameplay elements. But I HAVE seen people advocate for the removal of aircraft entirely from the Battlefield series.

    Oh there are people who think it should be removed.......
  • Callahan44er
    5062 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Rotank wrote: »
    Yeah most MGs do 2-3 damage per bullet vs the attack plane and even more to the fighter.

    a BAR will do 60 damage to an attack plane in a single magazine, which means with 1 other player shooting that plane is dead. machine gunners on vehicles are like AA guns of older games.

    nevermind the fact that bullets can also inflict crashes with wing/tail/engine disables too. nope, ground is totally powerless vs air.

    This is what I don't understand. Before the game released, everybody was overjoyed that aircraft could FINALLY be damaged with small arms fire (and frankly, I personally thought that at least choppers should have taken damage from small arms in BF4, like in older games, but I digress). Even pilots were looking forward to the challenge from the removal of lock-on weaponry and the addition of a more skill-based AA option.

    And now, even though there is STILL a spawnable MAA, small arms fire still does damage to aircraft... and not to mention that there are more plane types and diversity within aircraft gameplay itself... people still claim that it's the "only" way to deal with them.

    And I have still yet to see any advocates for more aircraft/AA balance call for the removal of AA or any other core gameplay elements. But I HAVE seen people advocate for the removal of aircraft entirely from the Battlefield series.

    how many players with normal weapons it would take to shoot down a plane with selfrepair? is it even possible? how many times have you been killed by an normal weapon in a plane?(excluding sniper headshots)
  • profoundtugboat
    5 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    The only thing I would change is how severely each shot effects the mobility of aircrafts. If you don't miss a shot with the aa your guaranteed to down the plane. There's nothing that plane can do but hope for a miss.

    Having said that, it's all too easy to memorize the aa spawns and throw rounds down first for an easy kill.
  • Rotank
    981 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited October 2016
    Rotank wrote: »
    Yeah most MGs do 2-3 damage per bullet vs the attack plane and even more to the fighter.

    a BAR will do 60 damage to an attack plane in a single magazine, which means with 1 other player shooting that plane is dead. machine gunners on vehicles are like AA guns of older games.

    nevermind the fact that bullets can also inflict crashes with wing/tail/engine disables too. nope, ground is totally powerless vs air.

    This is what I don't understand. Before the game released, everybody was overjoyed that aircraft could FINALLY be damaged with small arms fire (and frankly, I personally thought that at least choppers should have taken damage from small arms in BF4, like in older games, but I digress). Even pilots were looking forward to the challenge from the removal of lock-on weaponry and the addition of a more skill-based AA option.

    And now, even though there is STILL a spawnable MAA, small arms fire still does damage to aircraft... and not to mention that there are more plane types and diversity within aircraft gameplay itself... people still claim that it's the "only" way to deal with them.

    And I have still yet to see any advocates for more aircraft/AA balance call for the removal of AA or any other core gameplay elements. But I HAVE seen people advocate for the removal of aircraft entirely from the Battlefield series.

    how many players with normal weapons it would take to shoot down a plane with selfrepair? is it even possible? how many times have you been killed by an normal weapon in a plane?(excluding sniper headshots)

    Alone, no. However, taking ground fire while in a dogfight, under flak fire, or sustained machine gun fire from multiple sources is detrimental, much like multiple assaults/field cannons/etc. are more detrimental to tanks than 1 infantry going toe to toe. Also, snipers are capable of nullifying repairs (even with regular bullets, not to mention k-bullets) out to a considerable distance, allowing time for friendly aircraft or AA to regroup and engage with the target. Have had this happen too, where I was on the outer edge of the map, as high as I could go, with about 25 health left, yet there was a sniper somewhere on the map who REALLY didn't want me repairing. And guess what? Wherever he was, he completely nullified my repair until the enemy fighter plane swooped back in.

    Also, individually, small arms are still capable of destroying flaps and causing severe mobility hits on passing aircraft, especially lighter planes. This is in addition to the fact that, unlike tanks, pilots are entirely exposed to all types of fire, and I have personally been shot out of the cockpit by both lmgs and sniper rifles while lining up for a strafe. I have also A) killed more than 1 pilot with an lmg by going prone and firing when I noticed him lining up a shot; B) caused a mobility on an attack plane with my lmg using the same method, causing it to crash (the pilot bailed and I missed the kill); and C) caused MULTIPLE planes to simply veer off when I began firing on them (possibly because they had already sustained damage.) If you can't tell, I like the support kit.

    None of these methods are as effective as flak (nor should they be), but they are incredibly effective when combined with other threats faced by pilots. Also, these are not "trick shots" and are incredibly easy to pull off, as planes in this game move very slowly. The problem is not the lack of counters, the problem -- as it has been in every Battlefield ever -- is people simply ignoring the aircraft that some overzealous developer dared to put in their first person shooter.

    EDIT: Rereading your comment, are you trying to imply that a single guy with a gun SHOULD be able to take out an airplane with no other team support?
  • N_FURY_21
    331 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    irainsIRA wrote: »
    have seen a lot of discussion about this some say it shots to far some say it can aim to high and some say it dose to much damage. for me the only thing i would change is the speed that it rotates because right know its ridicules compared to the stationary cannons.

    Yes it is op. They kill planes in like seven shots and they cant be destroyed. monte grappa is teally bad for flying in planes because of it
  • bjrscj
    4 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    The AA gun is horrendous in this game. It is way too easy to down planes. I think they could fix this with one feature: require the gunner to adjust for distance or elevation. So real flak works by exploding at a certain elevation or after a certain time. You meter in the explosion based on where you think the planes are going to be flying. Flying low would require a direct hit because the shell wouldn't explode. Flying above the flak would work too.

    If the AA gunner had to think about where he wanted the shells to explode - like a sniper who has to adjust his scope range - it would add a lot of skill to the AA gun and would make me feel good about shooting people down. Right now it's just a guarantee.
  • Callahan44er
    5062 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited November 2016
    Rotank wrote: »
    Rotank wrote: »
    Yeah most MGs do 2-3 damage per bullet vs the attack plane and even more to the fighter.

    a BAR will do 60 damage to an attack plane in a single magazine, which means with 1 other player shooting that plane is dead. machine gunners on vehicles are like AA guns of older games.

    nevermind the fact that bullets can also inflict crashes with wing/tail/engine disables too. nope, ground is totally powerless vs air.

    This is what I don't understand. Before the game released, everybody was overjoyed that aircraft could FINALLY be damaged with small arms fire (and frankly, I personally thought that at least choppers should have taken damage from small arms in BF4, like in older games, but I digress). Even pilots were looking forward to the challenge from the removal of lock-on weaponry and the addition of a more skill-based AA option.

    And now, even though there is STILL a spawnable MAA, small arms fire still does damage to aircraft... and not to mention that there are more plane types and diversity within aircraft gameplay itself... people still claim that it's the "only" way to deal with them.

    And I have still yet to see any advocates for more aircraft/AA balance call for the removal of AA or any other core gameplay elements. But I HAVE seen people advocate for the removal of aircraft entirely from the Battlefield series.

    how many players with normal weapons it would take to shoot down a plane with selfrepair? is it even possible? how many times have you been killed by an normal weapon in a plane?(excluding sniper headshots)

    Alone, no. However, taking ground fire while in a dogfight, under flak fire, or sustained machine gun fire from multiple sources is detrimental, much like multiple assaults/field cannons/etc. are more detrimental to tanks than 1 infantry going toe to toe. Also, snipers are capable of nullifying repairs (even with regular bullets, not to mention k-bullets) out to a considerable distance, allowing time for friendly aircraft or AA to regroup and engage with the target. Have had this happen too, where I was on the outer edge of the map, as high as I could go, with about 25 health left, yet there was a sniper somewhere on the map who REALLY didn't want me repairing. And guess what? Wherever he was, he completely nullified my repair until the enemy fighter plane swooped back in.

    Also, individually, small arms are still capable of destroying flaps and causing severe mobility hits on passing aircraft, especially lighter planes. This is in addition to the fact that, unlike tanks, pilots are entirely exposed to all types of fire, and I have personally been shot out of the cockpit by both lmgs and sniper rifles while lining up for a strafe. I have also A) killed more than 1 pilot with an lmg by going prone and firing when I noticed him lining up a shot; B) caused a mobility on an attack plane with my lmg using the same method, causing it to crash (the pilot bailed and I missed the kill); and C) caused MULTIPLE planes to simply veer off when I began firing on them (possibly because they had already sustained damage.) If you can't tell, I like the support kit.

    None of these methods are as effective as flak (nor should they be), but they are incredibly effective when combined with other threats faced by pilots. Also, these are not "trick shots" and are incredibly easy to pull off, as planes in this game move very slowly. The problem is not the lack of counters, the problem -- as it has been in every Battlefield ever -- is people simply ignoring the aircraft that some overzealous developer dared to put in their first person shooter.

    EDIT: Rereading your comment, are you trying to imply that a single guy with a gun SHOULD be able to take out an airplane with no other team support?

    I think damage from normal weapons is good as it is. I only think it has nearly no use. yeah,you can disrupt repairing,but planes that repair are usually far away from the battle and everybody besides sniper probably won't hit them. And if they do,the plane just keeps flying further away. I haven't tried to shoot an attacking plane with an lmg like you until now,perhaps i'll give it a try :) . Planes are really different then in previous BF games. Most planes focus on killing infantry instead of vehicles now,as infantry i most of the time just ignored enemy jets in bf3/4,they were no thread.
    Personally i think the AA has to be really strong,as it is the only really good weapon against air. And i still think it is too strong atm.
  • Rotank
    981 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited November 2016
    Rotank wrote: »
    Rotank wrote: »
    Yeah most MGs do 2-3 damage per bullet vs the attack plane and even more to the fighter.

    a BAR will do 60 damage to an attack plane in a single magazine, which means with 1 other player shooting that plane is dead. machine gunners on vehicles are like AA guns of older games.

    nevermind the fact that bullets can also inflict crashes with wing/tail/engine disables too. nope, ground is totally powerless vs air.

    This is what I don't understand. Before the game released, everybody was overjoyed that aircraft could FINALLY be damaged with small arms fire (and frankly, I personally thought that at least choppers should have taken damage from small arms in BF4, like in older games, but I digress). Even pilots were looking forward to the challenge from the removal of lock-on weaponry and the addition of a more skill-based AA option.

    And now, even though there is STILL a spawnable MAA, small arms fire still does damage to aircraft... and not to mention that there are more plane types and diversity within aircraft gameplay itself... people still claim that it's the "only" way to deal with them.

    And I have still yet to see any advocates for more aircraft/AA balance call for the removal of AA or any other core gameplay elements. But I HAVE seen people advocate for the removal of aircraft entirely from the Battlefield series.

    how many players with normal weapons it would take to shoot down a plane with selfrepair? is it even possible? how many times have you been killed by an normal weapon in a plane?(excluding sniper headshots)

    Alone, no. However, taking ground fire while in a dogfight, under flak fire, or sustained machine gun fire from multiple sources is detrimental, much like multiple assaults/field cannons/etc. are more detrimental to tanks than 1 infantry going toe to toe. Also, snipers are capable of nullifying repairs (even with regular bullets, not to mention k-bullets) out to a considerable distance, allowing time for friendly aircraft or AA to regroup and engage with the target. Have had this happen too, where I was on the outer edge of the map, as high as I could go, with about 25 health left, yet there was a sniper somewhere on the map who REALLY didn't want me repairing. And guess what? Wherever he was, he completely nullified my repair until the enemy fighter plane swooped back in.

    Also, individually, small arms are still capable of destroying flaps and causing severe mobility hits on passing aircraft, especially lighter planes. This is in addition to the fact that, unlike tanks, pilots are entirely exposed to all types of fire, and I have personally been shot out of the cockpit by both lmgs and sniper rifles while lining up for a strafe. I have also A) killed more than 1 pilot with an lmg by going prone and firing when I noticed him lining up a shot; B) caused a mobility on an attack plane with my lmg using the same method, causing it to crash (the pilot bailed and I missed the kill); and C) caused MULTIPLE planes to simply veer off when I began firing on them (possibly because they had already sustained damage.) If you can't tell, I like the support kit.

    None of these methods are as effective as flak (nor should they be), but they are incredibly effective when combined with other threats faced by pilots. Also, these are not "trick shots" and are incredibly easy to pull off, as planes in this game move very slowly. The problem is not the lack of counters, the problem -- as it has been in every Battlefield ever -- is people simply ignoring the aircraft that some overzealous developer dared to put in their first person shooter.

    EDIT: Rereading your comment, are you trying to imply that a single guy with a gun SHOULD be able to take out an airplane with no other team support?

    I think damage from normal weapons is good as it is. I only think it has nearly no use. yeah,you can disrupt repairing,but planes that repair are usually far away from the battle and everybody besides sniper probably won't hit them. And if they do,the plane just keeps flying further away. I haven't tried to shoot an attacking plane with an lmg like you until now,perhaps i'll give it a try :) . Planes are really different then in previous BF games. Most planes focus on killing infantry instead of vehicles now,as infantry i most of the time just ignored enemy jets in bf3/4,they were no thread.
    Personally i think the AA has to be really strong,as it is the only really good weapon against air. And i still think it is too strong atm.

    Oh, I definitely agree that AA needs to be strong vs. aircraft. I think there are a couple things to keep in mind right now. First, there is a much different dynamic between aircraft in this game than we've ever seen before. This is why I'm not so frustrated about any of the balancing issues between planes (such as the current strength of the tailgunner.) We've never had 3 separate plane options with the types of characteristics that we see in BF1.

    Sure, we had both jets and helicopters in previous games, but the two never vied for the same airspace -- choppers had their niche, and jets had theirs. The planes in BF1 all occupy the same airspace, and therefore this provides a lot of dynamic play between the 3 classes -- I've even seen maps where a fully loaded bomber dedicated itself to hunting down enemy aircraft and letting the forward and aft gunners take over AA duties for the team.

    I've also heard people state that without AA, everybody will just spawn in bombers and ignore each other. Well, we have extremely powerful ground AA now, and it still doesn't play out that way -- people still spawn in all 3 types of aircraft situationally. Furthermore, I believe the greater dynamics in airplay is inviting to newer players to aircraft, moreso than in previous Battlefields. In previous games, the most skilled pilot dominated the sky for 1 team -- there was rarely a balanced air game, because the most experienced pilot would simply shut down the enemy air, and then go about his business relatively uncontested (unless someone on the ground had the wherewithal to utilize AA.)

    In BF1, a skilled pilot in a bomber does not have such an advantage over a newer pilot jumping into the attack or fighter planes. A newer player can have more of an impact in the sky than before -- they are still at a disadvantage, but they are not so oppressively outmatched from the gate that they cannot compete. However, the balance isn't quite there -- there still needs to be some tweaking on the rear gunners, for instance (they went from woefully underpowered in the beta, to oppressively dominant in the final release.) In the meantime, there is an extremely powerful AA that is capable of shutting out even the most skilled pilots in the game.

    I personally think that possibly part of the reason for the extreme power of the AA is because the air dynamic is so new, and there may be a lack of trust in the balance right now. It is my opinion that if AA were toned down, aircraft would move in to fill the AA void -- BF1 has the potential to attract more new pilots than any other Battlefield before, in my opinion.

    All this ranting to say, I do not think the air balance is where it should be. However, I understand why it is where it is, and I'm interested to see in which direction DICE decides to take it from here.
  • AssAssin-F22
    6 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited November 2016
    DICE should decraese the Range of it,damage and rotate speed
    AA is really unbalanced ...
  • TheSacar
    1005 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2016
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Oh there are people who think it should be removed.......

    I must say I cannot recall having seen a single person in any of the AA threads asking for AA to be removed.
    .
    I can recall a dozen situations where one or two infantry players who saw me lining up my MG for a strafe and started shooting at me have caused me to disengage. Once you lose 20-30% of your health you are in such a danger from AA or random hits by any other planes or plane gunners, that the smart thing is to get out and repair. So infantry might not kill a plane alone (in my best round as pilot yet a couple of people with MPs and LMGs almost downed me with concentrated fire though), but they can still fend it off.
    .
    @Callahan44er
    The reason most planes focus on hitting infantry and ignore vehicles might in part be that the tank buster attack plane was nerfed to near uselessness compared to the overpowered thing it was in the beta. You can hit a tank with three shots from the main cannon and both bombs and still not kill or even disable it. And while you are getting those three shots in you are basically forced to fly straight and offer AA, snipers and other tanks the perfect opportunity to take you out quickly. And you also do not have a really effective weapon against other planes in the tank buster: You need two hits (out of the five shots you have) to take out an undamaged attack plane and three for an undamaged bomber. That is not the easiest thing to do and unfortunately some hits just dust and do not damage the plane.
    And for bombers it's probably just easier to kill 1 or two infantry with splash damage from imperfectly placed bombs than one tank with accurately placed bombs.

  • munkt0r
    3037 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DICE should decraese the Range of it,damage and rotate speed
    AA is really unbalanced ...

    Doing all 3 would just tip the scale the other way and not create balance imo.

  • Tigerlord9_kq38
    21 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I know this is an old thread but since it hasn't been closed I'll comment. It's not so much how OP it is it's one of two things. 1. WAY too many on a single map for example Monte Grappe and 2. In reality AA flak guns do not turn that quickly. Slow down the turn and maybe keep 2 AAs per map.
  • Ronin9572
    1230 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    It's not too OP, but it's a blast to use. Most
    I know this is an old thread but since it hasn't been closed I'll comment. It's not so much how OP it is it's one of two things. 1. WAY too many on a single map for example Monte Grappe and 2. In reality AA flak guns do not turn that quickly. Slow down the turn and maybe keep 2 AAs per map.

    Some maps need more to be honest. And more times than not they are out in the open and making you a target. TBH there a blast to use, most ppl never take advantage of them or just don't know how to actually hide em!
  • ragnarok013
    3777 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Closing for necro.
This discussion has been closed.