Increasing the value of holding flags

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Rev0verDrive
6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
I've noticed a huge trend amongst players over the course of the last few titles to circle jerk flags for the boosted gains. Leaving no regard to the flag immediately being retaken as soon as they leave radius. Just on to the next batch of points. To me the higher the points you get for capturing the less incentive there is to defend them.

I propose that the winning "Team" receive a smaller overall win bonus (50% less than current) and a 4x bonus on their individual flag defense points.

e.g. Total flag defense score x4

Thoughts ?

Comments

  • B3ANTOWN__B3A5T
    4364 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Definitely like the flag defense bump, but I dont think nerfing the win bonus accomplishes anything.

    Just so I understand you, you want the 25 flag defense bonus to go up to 100 points? If so, I'm definitely cool with that.
  • solid_snake3900
    220 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    I like the idea
  • MarxistDictator
    4844 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Ticket bleed would make people hold flags.

    Though there should be another gold carrot to foil the gold carrot that is flag capping.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Definitely like the flag defense bump, but I dont think nerfing the win bonus accomplishes anything.
    The two combined are the win bonus. Reducing the default bonus because not everyone on the team would deserve such a boost.
    Just so I understand you, you want the 25 flag defense bonus to go up to 100 points? If so, I'm definitely cool with that.
    Only the winning team gets the 4x bonus on defense.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited September 2016
    Ticket bleed would make people hold flags.
    It doesn't in BF3 or BF4, so why would it suddenly change in BF1? Furthermore why do even think they changed CQ in the first place.
  • MarxistDictator
    4844 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    To make it more accessible to casuals, most of whom won't play the objective whether it's the focus of the mode or the only important thing. Sure makes you wonder why we need to remove all the nuance and strategy to CQ L.

    And you didn't even quote the part where I agreed with you that increasing rewards would improve flag defense objective play. Just not the mode mechanics change.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    To make it more accessible to casuals, most of whom won't play the objective whether it's the focus of the mode or the only important thing. Sure makes you wonder why we need to remove all the nuance and strategy to CQ L.

    And you didn't even quote the part where I agreed with you that increasing rewards would improve flag defense objective play. Just not the mode mechanics change.

    I had no argument with the other part. It's not like erased what you said either.

    Preferably I'd love to see the original CQ come back.
    • Flag caps: 2xp
    • Kills: 1xp
    • No bonuses for any action
    • No revives
    • No supply boxes
    • Ammo crates on objectives
    • Med bays on objectives
    • Limited ammo in vehicles
    • Aircraft repaired at main

    What strategy was removed?
  • snakeheadinvade
    2659 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    well ive had a "conquest offense idea where if you were within an area around the capture point you would get conquest offense bonus. the further away from flags you get the less points you get for kills.
  • snuggans
    63 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    i agree that playing Defense in conquest should be rewarded more than it currently is

    i think you only get Defense points if you kill an enemy within the capture radius, which is rather small, but no extra points if you stop a horde of attackers 10 meters outside of the objective
  • B3ANTOWN__B3A5T
    4364 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    snuggans wrote: »
    i agree that playing Defense in conquest should be rewarded more than it currently is

    i think you only get Defense points if you kill an enemy within the capture radius, which is rather small, but no extra points if you stop a horde of attackers 10 meters outside of the objective

    If the horde is outside and you are inside the boundary you get the points.
  • munkt0r
    3037 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think a lot of people are not recognizing how the defend system works.

    Your squad leader issues a defense order. If an enemy enters the objective a timer begins. Kill all the enemies and continue to hold the objective and the whole squad gets a "defender score bonus".

    This can happen an infinite number of times if enemies keep pushing the flag.

    In essence, the flag defense bonus is already very nice imo - but if your squad leader is ignorant of how it works or is the type that just calls out "attack attack attack" you'll feel like there is no bonus to defending.
  • B3ANTOWN__B3A5T
    4364 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    munkt0r wrote: »
    I think a lot of people are not recognizing how the defend system works.

    Your squad leader issues a defense order. If an enemy enters the objective a timer begins. Kill all the enemies and continue to hold the objective and the whole squad gets a "defender score bonus".

    This can happen an infinite number of times if enemies keep pushing the flag.

    In essence, the flag defense bonus is already very nice imo - but if your squad leader is ignorant of how it works or is the type that just calls out "attack attack attack" you'll feel like there is no bonus to defending.

    Thats incorrect sir. A successful squad defense order isnt based on enemy interaction at all. Now it's true that enemy interaction with the flag can prevent you from getting the points, but you can get successful defend order points without the enemy ever coming near the flag. I did it all the time in the beta.
  • munkt0r
    3037 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    munkt0r wrote: »
    I think a lot of people are not recognizing how the defend system works.

    Your squad leader issues a defense order. If an enemy enters the objective a timer begins. Kill all the enemies and continue to hold the objective and the whole squad gets a "defender score bonus".

    This can happen an infinite number of times if enemies keep pushing the flag.

    In essence, the flag defense bonus is already very nice imo - but if your squad leader is ignorant of how it works or is the type that just calls out "attack attack attack" you'll feel like there is no bonus to defending.

    Thats incorrect sir. A successful squad defense order isnt based on enemy interaction at all. Now it's true that enemy interaction with the flag can prevent you from getting the points, but you can get successful defend order points without the enemy ever coming near the flag. I did it all the time in the beta.

    I was pretty sure the timer only started if an enemy set foot in the area, even if just for a moment.

    I don't think you can trigger a flag defense if no enemies go to it, otherwise that'd be HIGHLY abused at the starting flag.

    I could be wrong, but I thought you could get defensive points from:

    - Getting a kill while defending an objective (being in the objective area and killing an enemy while holding said flag)
    - After a "defend the objective" timer began due to your squad leader marking the flag and an enemy entering the area
    - Entering an objective area you currently hold but is being taken by an enemy and stopping the enemy from taking it

  • B3ANTOWN__B3A5T
    4364 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    munkt0r wrote: »
    munkt0r wrote: »
    I think a lot of people are not recognizing how the defend system works.

    Your squad leader issues a defense order. If an enemy enters the objective a timer begins. Kill all the enemies and continue to hold the objective and the whole squad gets a "defender score bonus".

    This can happen an infinite number of times if enemies keep pushing the flag.

    In essence, the flag defense bonus is already very nice imo - but if your squad leader is ignorant of how it works or is the type that just calls out "attack attack attack" you'll feel like there is no bonus to defending.

    Thats incorrect sir. A successful squad defense order isnt based on enemy interaction at all. Now it's true that enemy interaction with the flag can prevent you from getting the points, but you can get successful defend order points without the enemy ever coming near the flag. I did it all the time in the beta.

    I was pretty sure the timer only started if an enemy set foot in the area, even if just for a moment.

    I don't think you can trigger a flag defense if no enemies go to it, otherwise that'd be HIGHLY abused at the starting flag.

    I could be wrong, but I thought you could get defensive points from:

    - Getting a kill while defending an objective (being in the objective area and killing an enemy while holding said flag)
    - After a "defend the objective" timer began due to your squad leader marking the flag and an enemy entering the area
    - Entering an objective area you currently hold but is being taken by an enemy and stopping the enemy from taking it

    Nope I did it all the time in the beta. Say we capped D and I just got squad attack order points. I switch it to defend another point we had and then quickly switch back to defend D. The timer would start rolling immediately, no enemy presence needed.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited September 2016
    @B3ANTOWN__B3A5T is correct. Or at least our experiences have been the same.

    The winning team eor 4x bonus:
    • Get more Squad leaders and players in general to play defensive.
    • It provides incentive to those that focus on flag control not just flag capturing.
    • It provides incentive to play closer to flags versus no man's land.
    • Provides more scoring opportunities to the scout class
    • It's completely defensive kill based.
  • Ronin0ni
    1758 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    snuggans wrote: »
    i agree that playing Defense in conquest should be rewarded more than it currently is

    i think you only get Defense points if you kill an enemy within the capture radius, which is rather small, but no extra points if you stop a horde of attackers 10 meters outside of the objective

    Yeah, the defense XP should extend radius.

    If you kill someone within 25-50m of a cap zone, while within that range yourself, you should get defend bonus XP.

    with MORE bonus XP if the enemy is actually on the point.
  • munkt0r
    3037 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    munkt0r wrote: »
    munkt0r wrote: »
    I think a lot of people are not recognizing how the defend system works.

    Your squad leader issues a defense order. If an enemy enters the objective a timer begins. Kill all the enemies and continue to hold the objective and the whole squad gets a "defender score bonus".

    This can happen an infinite number of times if enemies keep pushing the flag.

    In essence, the flag defense bonus is already very nice imo - but if your squad leader is ignorant of how it works or is the type that just calls out "attack attack attack" you'll feel like there is no bonus to defending.

    Thats incorrect sir. A successful squad defense order isnt based on enemy interaction at all. Now it's true that enemy interaction with the flag can prevent you from getting the points, but you can get successful defend order points without the enemy ever coming near the flag. I did it all the time in the beta.

    I was pretty sure the timer only started if an enemy set foot in the area, even if just for a moment.

    I don't think you can trigger a flag defense if no enemies go to it, otherwise that'd be HIGHLY abused at the starting flag.

    I could be wrong, but I thought you could get defensive points from:

    - Getting a kill while defending an objective (being in the objective area and killing an enemy while holding said flag)
    - After a "defend the objective" timer began due to your squad leader marking the flag and an enemy entering the area
    - Entering an objective area you currently hold but is being taken by an enemy and stopping the enemy from taking it

    Nope I did it all the time in the beta. Say we capped D and I just got squad attack order points. I switch it to defend another point we had and then quickly switch back to defend D. The timer would start rolling immediately, no enemy presence needed.

    That kinda sounds like unintended bug then...as couldn't you then just start from spawn, take the first flag and just keep switching back and forth the attack/defend order and rack up points for doing in essence nothing but standing there?
  • B3ANTOWN__B3A5T
    4364 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    munkt0r wrote: »
    munkt0r wrote: »
    munkt0r wrote: »
    I think a lot of people are not recognizing how the defend system works.

    Your squad leader issues a defense order. If an enemy enters the objective a timer begins. Kill all the enemies and continue to hold the objective and the whole squad gets a "defender score bonus".

    This can happen an infinite number of times if enemies keep pushing the flag.

    In essence, the flag defense bonus is already very nice imo - but if your squad leader is ignorant of how it works or is the type that just calls out "attack attack attack" you'll feel like there is no bonus to defending.

    Thats incorrect sir. A successful squad defense order isnt based on enemy interaction at all. Now it's true that enemy interaction with the flag can prevent you from getting the points, but you can get successful defend order points without the enemy ever coming near the flag. I did it all the time in the beta.

    I was pretty sure the timer only started if an enemy set foot in the area, even if just for a moment.

    I don't think you can trigger a flag defense if no enemies go to it, otherwise that'd be HIGHLY abused at the starting flag.

    I could be wrong, but I thought you could get defensive points from:

    - Getting a kill while defending an objective (being in the objective area and killing an enemy while holding said flag)
    - After a "defend the objective" timer began due to your squad leader marking the flag and an enemy entering the area
    - Entering an objective area you currently hold but is being taken by an enemy and stopping the enemy from taking it

    Nope I did it all the time in the beta. Say we capped D and I just got squad attack order points. I switch it to defend another point we had and then quickly switch back to defend D. The timer would start rolling immediately, no enemy presence needed.

    That kinda sounds like unintended bug then...as couldn't you then just start from spawn, take the first flag and just keep switching back and forth the attack/defend order and rack up points for doing in essence nothing but standing there?

    Yeah but it would be 200 points every minute which I don't think is a staggering amount of points by any means. You'd do much better actually playing the game and capping, killing, destroying, or at least continually defending a flag that sees action.

    The only time I could see it really benefit someone is if a particular player is straight up terrible and struggles to score at all.
  • Natetendo83
    1018 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Ticket bleed would make people hold flags.
    It doesn't in BF3 or BF4, so why would it suddenly change in BF1? Furthermore why do even think they changed CQ in the first place.

    I would say it did.
  • TheWalkingDerp
    381 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    munkt0r wrote: »
    In essence, the flag defense bonus is already very nice imo - but if your squad leader is ignorant of how it works or is the type that just calls out "attack attack attack" you'll feel like there is no bonus to defending.

    Problem a lot of arcadey team/squad based games have really. The devs come up with ways of encouraging squadplay but people either don't even know of the mechanics or just widely ignore them because running around doing your own thing usually yields more points.

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