Looks like Levelcap also admits AA gun is "incredibly powerful"

Comments

  • disposalist
    8322 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Another "Wah! I can't kill everyone all game without a chance of being killed anymore" from someone named "[email protected]".

    If the AA is pounding you, get out of your plane for a bit.

    Me? I've gotten the Icarus medal twice and am working my way to rank 10 (8 I think) and am loving flying, but when the AA is bad, I can bomb them, bail out and shoot them or, you know what? Just go do one of the 100 other things that you can do aside from fly around.

    When I have an SMG and I come face-to-face with a medic at 50 meters, do I take him on and then moan about his superior range and accuracy? No, I dive for cover and flank or I simply run and fight CQ somewhere else.

    It's a battlefield, not a flightsim with 'live' targets. No, AA is not OP.

    Way to ignore everything in every thread of the same subject.

    What like you do, only attack the writer, nothing about the topic.
    Another "Wah! I can't kill everyone all game without a chance of being killed anymore" from someone named "[email protected]".

    If the AA is pounding you, get out of your plane for a bit.

    Me? I've gotten the Icarus medal twice and am working my way to rank 10 (8 I think) and am loving flying, but when the AA is bad, I can bomb them, bail out and shoot them or, you know what? Just go do one of the 100 other things that you can do aside from fly around.

    When I have an SMG and I come face-to-face with a medic at 50 meters, do I take him on and then moan about his superior range and accuracy? No, I dive for cover and flank or I simply run and fight CQ somewhere else.

    It's a battlefield, not a flightsim with 'live' targets. No, AA is not OP.

    Way to ignore everything in every thread of the same subject.
    I haven't ignored it, I have simply done a lot of flying to get to rank 10 pilot and found the AA to be fine and am happy that if all the AA are manned it's too tough to fly and I go do something else.

    No ignored, just disregarded given evidence to the contrary.
  • disposalist
    8322 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    No more solo pilot domination.

    Play as a team.

    Less whine more strategy.

    its the lack of firepower of the planes and the fact every single thing on the battlefield can now hurt them that stops solo pilot domination, regardless of powerful AA.
    Good. What was the problem again?
  • KorpusDraige
    2288 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Another "Wah! I can't kill everyone all game without a chance of being killed anymore" from someone named "[email protected]".

    If the AA is pounding you, get out of your plane for a bit.

    Me? I've gotten the Icarus medal twice and am working my way to rank 10 (8 I think) and am loving flying, but when the AA is bad, I can bomb them, bail out and shoot them or, you know what? Just go do one of the 100 other things that you can do aside from fly around.

    When I have an SMG and I come face-to-face with a medic at 50 meters, do I take him on and then moan about his superior range and accuracy? No, I dive for cover and flank or I simply run and fight CQ somewhere else.

    It's a battlefield, not a flightsim with 'live' targets. No, AA is not OP.

    Way to ignore everything in every thread of the same subject.

    What like you do, only attack the writer, nothing about the topic.
    Another "Wah! I can't kill everyone all game without a chance of being killed anymore" from someone named "[email protected]".

    If the AA is pounding you, get out of your plane for a bit.

    Me? I've gotten the Icarus medal twice and am working my way to rank 10 (8 I think) and am loving flying, but when the AA is bad, I can bomb them, bail out and shoot them or, you know what? Just go do one of the 100 other things that you can do aside from fly around.

    When I have an SMG and I come face-to-face with a medic at 50 meters, do I take him on and then moan about his superior range and accuracy? No, I dive for cover and flank or I simply run and fight CQ somewhere else.

    It's a battlefield, not a flightsim with 'live' targets. No, AA is not OP.

    Way to ignore everything in every thread of the same subject.
    I haven't ignored it, I have simply done a lot of flying to get to rank 10 pilot and found the AA to be fine and am happy that if all the AA are manned it's too tough to fly and I go do something else.

    No ignored, just disregarded given evidence to the contrary.

    "Rank 10" is actually quite easy to get to. Doesn't make someone a pilot. I can easily get to rank 10 with tanks, does that make me a tanker that can balance that? No.
  • Turban_Legend80
    4362 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    No more solo pilot domination.

    Play as a team.

    Less whine more strategy.

    its the lack of firepower of the planes and the fact every single thing on the battlefield can now hurt them that stops solo pilot domination, regardless of powerful AA.
    Good. What was the problem again?

    So if planes cannot dominate, why the need for such powerful AA?
  • ZombieP1ow
    668 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    ZombieP1ow wrote: »
    Just played a game where the other team kept the AA out of play, and the air planes had free reign. So. It's obvious that pilots feel a bit miffed they can't 'do as well' on thier own like they're used to.
    But I've hunted tanks on foot for ten years in BF, and tanks are a lot of work in this game. Am I crying for nerfs and buffs to accentuate my play style? No, I'm using all the tools DICE provided on the map. It's not a game of one man army any more. Accept it.

    One game proves everything of course.

    Also, if the AA was not being used, how does that make the AA balanced?

    Not one game, I see this in plenty of rounds, I've been sniped off of AA, then when I got back to it, it was gone. Appreciate your short sightedness in that.
  • Rotank
    981 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited November 2016
    munkt0r wrote: »
    Rotank wrote: »
    So you're saying, that a vehicle that is limited to 1-3 on most maps, requires using a gimped kit, and has a 2-3 minute respawn time, needs to use teamwork to take out a single infantry player using none to take them out?

    ...

    Okay.

    In truth, it isn't a single infantry player. It's a single emplacement, that has (correct me if i'm wrong) a longer respawn timer than vehicle in question as well leaves you mostly defenseless. Most every time i've jumped on the AA i've disabled or killed at least 1 pilot, but most every time i've also been sniped and killed. To stay on the AA for a long duration either requires coordination/teamwork or an opposing team that doesn't recognize how it NEEDS to be stopped.

    Not saying this justifies the power of the AA vs Air, merely pointing out the scenario you're insinuating isn't very accurate imo.

    Because using an emplacement requires no planning or forethought, requires no distribution of assets (the MAA truck, for example, at least uses a tank slot), can be utilized by anyone with no personal trade-offs, and exhausts no resources (such as ammo) when used. And on top of that, it requires only a few seconds to serve its purpose and move on.

    As a stationary gun SHOULD be. They are situational assets. What a situational emplacement should NOT be able to do is single-handed lay dominate an entire aspect of gameplay within a matter of seconds. That should require a concerted effort, with teamwork or reasonable personal skill, and/or the expenditure of resources. Like every OTHER aspect of the game, including other types of emplacements.

    Post edited by Rotank on
  • DavTan
    710 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I'm not really on one side or t,other, I do see some fair points from both sides.

    But what I find interesting is no dice Dev has ever bothered to post in one of these type of balance threads on their own forums and tell us why the particular subject being discussed was balanced by them in the way it was in the first place.
  • x_Undaunted_x
    3760 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    DavTan wrote: »
    I'm not really on one side or t,other, I do see some fair points from both sides.

    But what I find interesting is no dice Dev has ever bothered to post in one of these type of balance threads on their own forums and tell us why the particular subject being discussed was balanced by them in the way it was in the first place.

    They never have and never will (not on the regular forums anyways. Maybe the CTE if they bring it back, but not here.)
  • Outlaw_Sundown
    68 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Their range is a bit too far. That's my biggest complaint with them.
  • GreenOO7
    29 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Pilots should be supporting there troops on the front line that way the troops can support them with covering the aa guns on the floor. Not flying deep behind enemy lines then moaning about being shot down by aa before they can retreat to safe distance. I do agree there shouldn't be aa guns in the spawn area were opponent cant reach thou.
  • AbruptBlindThief
    95 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    ZombieP1ow wrote: »
    Just played a game where the other team kept the AA out of play, and the air planes had free reign. So. It's obvious that pilots feel a bit miffed they can't 'do as well' on thier own like they're used to.
    But I've hunted tanks on foot for ten years in BF, and tanks are a lot of work in this game. Am I crying for nerfs and buffs to accentuate my play style? No, I'm using all the tools DICE provided on the map. It's not a game of one man army any more. Accept it.

    What we're the k/ds of the pilots that game?
  • Trokey66
    7951 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    ZombieP1ow wrote: »
    Just played a game where the other team kept the AA out of play, and the air planes had free reign. So. It's obvious that pilots feel a bit miffed they can't 'do as well' on thier own like they're used to.
    But I've hunted tanks on foot for ten years in BF, and tanks are a lot of work in this game. Am I crying for nerfs and buffs to accentuate my play style? No, I'm using all the tools DICE provided on the map. It's not a game of one man army any more. Accept it.

    What we're the k/ds of the pilots that game?

    K/D is irrelavant here and should not be used in a 'balance' discussion.......

    Apparently.
  • PeterLA69
    1038 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I have been trying to fly more and also watch airplanes more in gane, and seriously, there is no problem with AA guns..
  • GreenOO7
    29 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    fragkat wrote: »
    This is a considered plan of BF pilots as they always do. Scream loud an long enough an come up with fantastic stories of horror till the devs listen., Destroy counters to air. Then these same top gun war heroes come to forums an scream how good they are...Here is something for you lot to chew on. The more you **** an moan an get everything changed to suitr you, the less players you end up with to play against. Because people will slowly drift away an you end up with a **** joke of a player base. All because the precious pilots demand to be untouchable.

    You guys just want an easy game, that is why you're defending the hand of god, the AA gun. Super easy to use. It has whole map range, no cool down and goes straight to the ceiling. You see no problem with that?

    I may be wrong but sure there is a cool down on the AA guns. In which case you would be wrong........again
  • xxhentaiwarriorx
    53 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Lykosia wrote: »
    AA guns are the reason why I don't use attack planes at all. Those are too big and slow and get pulverized in the matter of seconds by AA guns. With fighter planes I usually manage to dodge and get away, but then I can't do much else in the game because everytime I try to approach the battlefield AA starts pounding me.

    From my experience with the flak gun, the fighter aircraft just melts in a few rounds, the medium size bomber takes a good bit more and the big bomber takes quite a lot of shots unless hitting point blank. Shooting a bomber flying at maximum altitude is by no means an instant kill. I don't know if bombers have a mechanic that allows them not to take damage because very often what happens is I score a few hits on a bomber and then for a short period of time my rounds do not connect at all and then again resume dealing damage. It's really weird and only happens against the big bomber.
  • Rotank
    981 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Lykosia wrote: »
    AA guns are the reason why I don't use attack planes at all. Those are too big and slow and get pulverized in the matter of seconds by AA guns. With fighter planes I usually manage to dodge and get away, but then I can't do much else in the game because everytime I try to approach the battlefield AA starts pounding me.

    From my experience with the flak gun, the fighter aircraft just melts in a few rounds, the medium size bomber takes a good bit more and the big bomber takes quite a lot of shots unless hitting point blank. Shooting a bomber flying at maximum altitude is by no means an instant kill. I don't know if bombers have a mechanic that allows them not to take damage because very often what happens is I score a few hits on a bomber and then for a short period of time my rounds do not connect at all and then again resume dealing damage. It's really weird and only happens against the big bomber.

    Sounds like maybe it's experiencing some dusting issues? I've had this a lot with air vs. air, where the bullets are clearly impacting the enemy plane and pieces of canvas and debris are flying off, but there are no hitmarkers.
  • munkt0r
    3037 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Rotank wrote: »
    munkt0r wrote: »
    Rotank wrote: »
    So you're saying, that a vehicle that is limited to 1-3 on most maps, requires using a gimped kit, and has a 2-3 minute respawn time, needs to use teamwork to take out a single infantry player using none to take them out?

    ...

    Okay.

    In truth, it isn't a single infantry player. It's a single emplacement, that has (correct me if i'm wrong) a longer respawn timer than vehicle in question as well leaves you mostly defenseless. Most every time i've jumped on the AA i've disabled or killed at least 1 pilot, but most every time i've also been sniped and killed. To stay on the AA for a long duration either requires coordination/teamwork or an opposing team that doesn't recognize how it NEEDS to be stopped.

    Not saying this justifies the power of the AA vs Air, merely pointing out the scenario you're insinuating isn't very accurate imo.

    Because using an emplacement requires no planning or forethought, requires no distribution of assets (the MAA truck, for example, at least uses a tank slot), can be utilized by anyone with no personal trade-offs, and exhausts no resources (such as ammo) when used. And on top of that, it requires only a few seconds to serve its purpose and move on.

    As a stationary gun SHOULD be. They are situational assets. What a situational emplacement should NOT be able to do is single-handed lay dominate an entire aspect of gameplay within a matter of seconds. That should require a concerted effort, with teamwork or reasonable personal skill, and/or the expenditure of resources. Like every OTHER aspect of the game, including other types of emplacements.

    I just think you're belittling it too much in comparison.

    Basically the thought process is that the emplacement is "free kills with zero effort". I disagree with that, while still maintaining that it's TOO good.
  • Rotank
    981 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    munkt0r wrote: »
    Rotank wrote: »
    munkt0r wrote: »
    Rotank wrote: »
    So you're saying, that a vehicle that is limited to 1-3 on most maps, requires using a gimped kit, and has a 2-3 minute respawn time, needs to use teamwork to take out a single infantry player using none to take them out?

    ...

    Okay.

    In truth, it isn't a single infantry player. It's a single emplacement, that has (correct me if i'm wrong) a longer respawn timer than vehicle in question as well leaves you mostly defenseless. Most every time i've jumped on the AA i've disabled or killed at least 1 pilot, but most every time i've also been sniped and killed. To stay on the AA for a long duration either requires coordination/teamwork or an opposing team that doesn't recognize how it NEEDS to be stopped.

    Not saying this justifies the power of the AA vs Air, merely pointing out the scenario you're insinuating isn't very accurate imo.

    Because using an emplacement requires no planning or forethought, requires no distribution of assets (the MAA truck, for example, at least uses a tank slot), can be utilized by anyone with no personal trade-offs, and exhausts no resources (such as ammo) when used. And on top of that, it requires only a few seconds to serve its purpose and move on.

    As a stationary gun SHOULD be. They are situational assets. What a situational emplacement should NOT be able to do is single-handed lay dominate an entire aspect of gameplay within a matter of seconds. That should require a concerted effort, with teamwork or reasonable personal skill, and/or the expenditure of resources. Like every OTHER aspect of the game, including other types of emplacements.

    I just think you're belittling it too much in comparison.

    Basically the thought process is that the emplacement is "free kills with zero effort". I disagree with that, while still maintaining that it's TOO good.

    Its not a matter of belittling it, though. It has a role to play in the game just like everything else. I do not want it removed or "nerfed into the ground" or anything of the sort... anything from increasing the mobility hit threshold on planes, to reducing the number of stationary AAs on the map, to lowering the turn speed would, individually, bring it into relative balance with other stationary weaponry, AND increase the value of the AA truck, an asset that requires a tank slot to utilize.

    However, there is not one other aspect of the game that performs to the same level of efficiency, effectiveness and ease of use as the stationary AA to aircraft dynamic. It is a clear cut above every other asset in the game in serving its specified role in the game.

    To put into perspective, it would be the equivalent of having a mounted grenade launcher, with an extremely high rate of fire and range enough to cover 3-5 flags, could sustain fire for a long period of time and required no reloading, could turn 360 degrees at extremely high speeds, and reduced any infantry within it's 5 - 10 meter splash radius to walking speed without the ability to turn if they took any damage.

    I don't care if there were only 3 of these on the entire map and you were entirely exposed the whole time using it, nobody would agree that that would be an acceptable level of balance for a field asset, and THAT would (hypothetically) be against lower value targets than a limited spawn vehicle.
  • munkt0r
    3037 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Rotank wrote: »
    munkt0r wrote: »
    Rotank wrote: »
    munkt0r wrote: »
    Rotank wrote: »
    So you're saying, that a vehicle that is limited to 1-3 on most maps, requires using a gimped kit, and has a 2-3 minute respawn time, needs to use teamwork to take out a single infantry player using none to take them out?

    ...

    Okay.

    In truth, it isn't a single infantry player. It's a single emplacement, that has (correct me if i'm wrong) a longer respawn timer than vehicle in question as well leaves you mostly defenseless. Most every time i've jumped on the AA i've disabled or killed at least 1 pilot, but most every time i've also been sniped and killed. To stay on the AA for a long duration either requires coordination/teamwork or an opposing team that doesn't recognize how it NEEDS to be stopped.

    Not saying this justifies the power of the AA vs Air, merely pointing out the scenario you're insinuating isn't very accurate imo.

    Because using an emplacement requires no planning or forethought, requires no distribution of assets (the MAA truck, for example, at least uses a tank slot), can be utilized by anyone with no personal trade-offs, and exhausts no resources (such as ammo) when used. And on top of that, it requires only a few seconds to serve its purpose and move on.

    As a stationary gun SHOULD be. They are situational assets. What a situational emplacement should NOT be able to do is single-handed lay dominate an entire aspect of gameplay within a matter of seconds. That should require a concerted effort, with teamwork or reasonable personal skill, and/or the expenditure of resources. Like every OTHER aspect of the game, including other types of emplacements.

    I just think you're belittling it too much in comparison.

    Basically the thought process is that the emplacement is "free kills with zero effort". I disagree with that, while still maintaining that it's TOO good.

    Its not a matter of belittling it, though. It has a role to play in the game just like everything else. I do not want it removed or "nerfed into the ground" or anything of the sort... anything from increasing the mobility hit threshold on planes, to reducing the number of stationary AAs on the map, to lowering the turn speed would, individually, bring it into relative balance with other stationary weaponry, AND increase the value of the AA truck, an asset that requires a tank slot to utilize.

    However, there is not one other aspect of the game that performs to the same level of efficiency, effectiveness and ease of use as the stationary AA to aircraft dynamic. It is a clear cut above every other asset in the game in serving its specified role in the game.

    To put into perspective, it would be the equivalent of having a mounted grenade launcher, with an extremely high rate of fire and range enough to cover 3-5 flags, could sustain fire for a long period of time and required no reloading, could turn 360 degrees at extremely high speeds, and reduced any infantry within it's 5 - 10 meter splash radius to walking speed without the ability to turn if they took any damage.

    I don't care if there were only 3 of these on the entire map and you were entirely exposed the whole time using it, nobody would agree that that would be an acceptable level of balance for a field asset, and THAT would (hypothetically) be against lower value targets than a limited spawn vehicle.

    I don't disagree with any you just said there.
  • Raizurhk
    50 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Medal of Honor Warfighter, Battlefield 1 Member
    lol who cares what lvlcap says he sucks and just gets all his info from other sites.
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