Hit Detection

Comments

  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Let's say I fire the exact number of shots it takes to kill a player and half of them aren't detected. Now let's say I fire the same number of shots but with twice the damage and half are detected. I'll take the second example every time. I don't see how this is not on topic and it could be a very simple solution.

    That will never happen in core. And it's already available in HC.

    You may very well be right but do you think that raising the weapon damage would alleviate some of the bad hit detection?

    No.

    You'd just get mad at the new timing.

    Things would feel "fixed" for a bit, but bullets not registering is not fixed by changing damage.


    That will never affect netcode. These are completely different things.

    Then explain why hit detection doesn't seem to be a problem in hc.

    I know I could play hc but there are reasons I don't like it.

    It appears to not be an issue cause you don't get any indication of killing someone. Just because it "feels" legit doesn't mean shots are not registering.

    Beside HC is not a fast paced game. Mostly just people camped around sniping.

    Besides what you are doing is covering up the issues not fixing it. It's like if you go to the mechanic complaining that your breaks are making noises and his solution is turning up the radio so you don't hear it anymore.

    Watching the other player fall over dead is not an indication? Why are you even arguing with me? You know as well as I do that the crying will continue until we are back at pre-patch.

    BTW I've never been to the mechanic complaining about my 'breaks' making noise. :)

    No it doesn't since you don't know how many hits it took to put him down. All you're doing is prooving is that there is a placebo effect since you're basing the quality of the game by feel and not facts.

    Stop trolling me.

    It's a public forum and last time a checked you're replying. Either way last time a checked, to disagree with someone's comments is not trolling. If you don't like that people don't agree with you, don't post.
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Let's say I fire the exact number of shots it takes to kill a player and half of them aren't detected. Now let's say I fire the same number of shots but with twice the damage and half are detected. I'll take the second example every time. I don't see how this is not on topic and it could be a very simple solution.

    That will never happen in core. And it's already available in HC.

    You may very well be right but do you think that raising the weapon damage would alleviate some of the bad hit detection?

    No.

    You'd just get mad at the new timing.

    Things would feel "fixed" for a bit, but bullets not registering is not fixed by changing damage.


    That will never affect netcode. These are completely different things.

    Then explain why hit detection doesn't seem to be a problem in hc.

    I know I could play hc but there are reasons I don't like it.

    It appears to not be an issue cause you don't get any indication of killing someone. Just because it "feels" legit doesn't mean shots are not registering.

    Beside HC is not a fast paced game. Mostly just people camped around sniping.

    Besides what you are doing is covering up the issues not fixing it. It's like if you go to the mechanic complaining that your breaks are making noises and his solution is turning up the radio so you don't hear it anymore.

    Watching the other player fall over dead is not an indication? Why are you even arguing with me? You know as well as I do that the crying will continue until we are back at pre-patch.

    BTW I've never been to the mechanic complaining about my 'breaks' making noise. :)

    No it doesn't since you don't know how many hits it took to put him down. All you're doing is prooving is that there is a placebo effect since you're basing the quality of the game by feel and not facts.

    If shoting at a player that is at the damage drop-off distance.. Lets say 20-21 meters to make it easy.

    It may take 4 hits to kill the enemy att 20 meters. And 8 hits at 21 meters.

    You think the player is at 20 meters, but the server think he is at 21 meters.

    Then it is a fact that it should take 8 hits to kill the player.
    But how does it make the engaging player to feel?

    Especially if you kill someone next to the player. Exept that player Is positioned at 20 meters on the server, and therefore dies after 4 hits.
    While the guy next to him takes 8 hits to kill!

    Its facts! But its also relevant how it feels and how it persives!

    Is it facts? Show me the damage curve that has that large of a drop over a meter. While damage drop off is greater here than some other titles, it's not that drastic....sorry but that's not a good example.

    Still don't see how it associates to hit detection.

    You do know, and understand what I meant with the example.
    You're just refusing to acknowledge it, so you can continue your childish way of being completely impossible to discuss with.

    Maybe you should read up on those symptic stats? Or just have a look at the ingame diagram..
    May be more productive for your gameplay experience, then raging your self unconscious over "the broken netcode" on twitch..

    The thing is. When you design a product made to be used by a big variety of people. You pretty much need to make it bulletproof.

    And how the game is experienced by the players, is the core thing for the game to be popular and survive!

    So you can wery much compare the "facts" against "how it feels"

    Why do you think you like the B A R?
    It have a low and slowly decreasing damage drop-off curve. Witch probably helps you to kill people without accurately estimating distance.
    Hence it eliminates many wtf moments = it feels better for you.

    Same goes for the mondragon, etc.

    While the sweeper, cei rigoti, autoloading 8.25, Etc. Have incredibly step drop-off curves.
    And are much more prone to create wtf moments.

    This is "facts" that directly results in "feelings" within the player that experience those "facts"!

    So again your "facts" are wrong and exaggerated.

    So you took the cei rigoti for example. First off the gun doesn't even drop off till about 33m, and when it does it goes from 38 to 28. So with higher mathematics that comes out to a 1 bullet kill difference. So tell me how you got your "facts" of 4 to 8 there. Let me take another one you brought up. Autoloading 8, first off the drop off is not drastic, but again we are talking 42 to 30dmg...again only 1 bullet kill difference.

    And yes I use the BAR, why, cause I like support and I feel most comfortable with it.

    Before you tell me to read up on my symthic..maybe you should get your facts straight, and maybe see that your example is bad.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Let's say I fire the exact number of shots it takes to kill a player and half of them aren't detected. Now let's say I fire the same number of shots but with twice the damage and half are detected. I'll take the second example every time. I don't see how this is not on topic and it could be a very simple solution.

    That will never happen in core. And it's already available in HC.

    You may very well be right but do you think that raising the weapon damage would alleviate some of the bad hit detection?

    No.

    You'd just get mad at the new timing.

    Things would feel "fixed" for a bit, but bullets not registering is not fixed by changing damage.


    That will never affect netcode. These are completely different things.

    Then explain why hit detection doesn't seem to be a problem in hc.

    I know I could play hc but there are reasons I don't like it.

    It appears to not be an issue cause you don't get any indication of killing someone. Just because it "feels" legit doesn't mean shots are not registering.

    Beside HC is not a fast paced game. Mostly just people camped around sniping.

    Besides what you are doing is covering up the issues not fixing it. It's like if you go to the mechanic complaining that your breaks are making noises and his solution is turning up the radio so you don't hear it anymore.

    Watching the other player fall over dead is not an indication? Why are you even arguing with me? You know as well as I do that the crying will continue until we are back at pre-patch.

    BTW I've never been to the mechanic complaining about my 'breaks' making noise. :)

    No it doesn't since you don't know how many hits it took to put him down. All you're doing is prooving is that there is a placebo effect since you're basing the quality of the game by feel and not facts.

    Stop trolling me.

    It's a public forum and last time a checked you're replying. Either way last time a checked, to disagree with someone's comments is not trolling. If you don't like that people don't agree with you, don't post.
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Let's say I fire the exact number of shots it takes to kill a player and half of them aren't detected. Now let's say I fire the same number of shots but with twice the damage and half are detected. I'll take the second example every time. I don't see how this is not on topic and it could be a very simple solution.

    That will never happen in core. And it's already available in HC.

    You may very well be right but do you think that raising the weapon damage would alleviate some of the bad hit detection?

    No.

    You'd just get mad at the new timing.

    Things would feel "fixed" for a bit, but bullets not registering is not fixed by changing damage.


    That will never affect netcode. These are completely different things.

    Then explain why hit detection doesn't seem to be a problem in hc.

    I know I could play hc but there are reasons I don't like it.

    It appears to not be an issue cause you don't get any indication of killing someone. Just because it "feels" legit doesn't mean shots are not registering.

    Beside HC is not a fast paced game. Mostly just people camped around sniping.

    Besides what you are doing is covering up the issues not fixing it. It's like if you go to the mechanic complaining that your breaks are making noises and his solution is turning up the radio so you don't hear it anymore.

    Watching the other player fall over dead is not an indication? Why are you even arguing with me? You know as well as I do that the crying will continue until we are back at pre-patch.

    BTW I've never been to the mechanic complaining about my 'breaks' making noise. :)

    No it doesn't since you don't know how many hits it took to put him down. All you're doing is prooving is that there is a placebo effect since you're basing the quality of the game by feel and not facts.

    If shoting at a player that is at the damage drop-off distance.. Lets say 20-21 meters to make it easy.

    It may take 4 hits to kill the enemy att 20 meters. And 8 hits at 21 meters.

    You think the player is at 20 meters, but the server think he is at 21 meters.

    Then it is a fact that it should take 8 hits to kill the player.
    But how does it make the engaging player to feel?

    Especially if you kill someone next to the player. Exept that player Is positioned at 20 meters on the server, and therefore dies after 4 hits.
    While the guy next to him takes 8 hits to kill!

    Its facts! But its also relevant how it feels and how it persives!

    Is it facts? Show me the damage curve that has that large of a drop over a meter. While damage drop off is greater here than some other titles, it's not that drastic....sorry but that's not a good example.

    Still don't see how it associates to hit detection.

    You do know, and understand what I meant with the example.
    You're just refusing to acknowledge it, so you can continue your childish way of being completely impossible to discuss with.

    Maybe you should read up on those symptic stats? Or just have a look at the ingame diagram..
    May be more productive for your gameplay experience, then raging your self unconscious over "the broken netcode" on twitch..

    The thing is. When you design a product made to be used by a big variety of people. You pretty much need to make it bulletproof.

    And how the game is experienced by the players, is the core thing for the game to be popular and survive!

    So you can wery much compare the "facts" against "how it feels"

    Why do you think you like the B A R?
    It have a low and slowly decreasing damage drop-off curve. Witch probably helps you to kill people without accurately estimating distance.
    Hence it eliminates many wtf moments = it feels better for you.

    Same goes for the mondragon, etc.

    While the sweeper, cei rigoti, autoloading 8.25, Etc. Have incredibly step drop-off curves.
    And are much more prone to create wtf moments.

    This is "facts" that directly results in "feelings" within the player that experience those "facts"!

    So again your "facts" are wrong and exaggerated.

    So you took the cei rigoti for example. First off the gun doesn't even drop off till about 33m, and when it does it goes from 38 to 28. So with higher mathematics that comes out to a 1 bullet kill difference. So tell me how you got your "facts" of 4 to 8 there. Let me take another one you brought up. Autoloading 8, first off the drop off is not drastic, but again we are talking 42 to 30dmg...again only 1 bullet kill difference.

    And yes I use the BAR, why, cause I like support and I feel most comfortable with it.

    Before you tell me to read up on my symthic..maybe you should get your facts straight, and maybe see that your example is bad.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Let's say I fire the exact number of shots it takes to kill a player and half of them aren't detected. Now let's say I fire the same number of shots but with twice the damage and half are detected. I'll take the second example every time. I don't see how this is not on topic and it could be a very simple solution.

    That will never happen in core. And it's already available in HC.

    You may very well be right but do you think that raising the weapon damage would alleviate some of the bad hit detection?

    No.

    You'd just get mad at the new timing.

    Things would feel "fixed" for a bit, but bullets not registering is not fixed by changing damage.


    That will never affect netcode. These are completely different things.

    Then explain why hit detection doesn't seem to be a problem in hc.

    I know I could play hc but there are reasons I don't like it.

    It appears to not be an issue cause you don't get any indication of killing someone. Just because it "feels" legit doesn't mean shots are not registering.

    Beside HC is not a fast paced game. Mostly just people camped around sniping.

    Besides what you are doing is covering up the issues not fixing it. It's like if you go to the mechanic complaining that your breaks are making noises and his solution is turning up the radio so you don't hear it anymore.

    Watching the other player fall over dead is not an indication? Why are you even arguing with me? You know as well as I do that the crying will continue until we are back at pre-patch.

    BTW I've never been to the mechanic complaining about my 'breaks' making noise. :)

    No it doesn't since you don't know how many hits it took to put him down. All you're doing is prooving is that there is a placebo effect since you're basing the quality of the game by feel and not facts.

    Stop trolling me.

    It's a public forum and last time a checked you're replying. Either way last time a checked, to disagree with someone's comments is not trolling. If you don't like that people don't agree with you, don't post.
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Let's say I fire the exact number of shots it takes to kill a player and half of them aren't detected. Now let's say I fire the same number of shots but with twice the damage and half are detected. I'll take the second example every time. I don't see how this is not on topic and it could be a very simple solution.

    That will never happen in core. And it's already available in HC.

    You may very well be right but do you think that raising the weapon damage would alleviate some of the bad hit detection?

    No.

    You'd just get mad at the new timing.

    Things would feel "fixed" for a bit, but bullets not registering is not fixed by changing damage.


    That will never affect netcode. These are completely different things.

    Then explain why hit detection doesn't seem to be a problem in hc.

    I know I could play hc but there are reasons I don't like it.

    It appears to not be an issue cause you don't get any indication of killing someone. Just because it "feels" legit doesn't mean shots are not registering.

    Beside HC is not a fast paced game. Mostly just people camped around sniping.

    Besides what you are doing is covering up the issues not fixing it. It's like if you go to the mechanic complaining that your breaks are making noises and his solution is turning up the radio so you don't hear it anymore.

    Watching the other player fall over dead is not an indication? Why are you even arguing with me? You know as well as I do that the crying will continue until we are back at pre-patch.

    BTW I've never been to the mechanic complaining about my 'breaks' making noise. :)

    No it doesn't since you don't know how many hits it took to put him down. All you're doing is prooving is that there is a placebo effect since you're basing the quality of the game by feel and not facts.

    If shoting at a player that is at the damage drop-off distance.. Lets say 20-21 meters to make it easy.

    It may take 4 hits to kill the enemy att 20 meters. And 8 hits at 21 meters.

    You think the player is at 20 meters, but the server think he is at 21 meters.

    Then it is a fact that it should take 8 hits to kill the player.
    But how does it make the engaging player to feel?

    Especially if you kill someone next to the player. Exept that player Is positioned at 20 meters on the server, and therefore dies after 4 hits.
    While the guy next to him takes 8 hits to kill!

    Its facts! But its also relevant how it feels and how it persives!

    Is it facts? Show me the damage curve that has that large of a drop over a meter. While damage drop off is greater here than some other titles, it's not that drastic....sorry but that's not a good example.

    Still don't see how it associates to hit detection.

    You do know, and understand what I meant with the example.
    You're just refusing to acknowledge it, so you can continue your childish way of being completely impossible to discuss with.

    Maybe you should read up on those symptic stats? Or just have a look at the ingame diagram..
    May be more productive for your gameplay experience, then raging your self unconscious over "the broken netcode" on twitch..

    The thing is. When you design a product made to be used by a big variety of people. You pretty much need to make it bulletproof.

    And how the game is experienced by the players, is the core thing for the game to be popular and survive!

    So you can wery much compare the "facts" against "how it feels"

    Why do you think you like the B A R?
    It have a low and slowly decreasing damage drop-off curve. Witch probably helps you to kill people without accurately estimating distance.
    Hence it eliminates many wtf moments = it feels better for you.

    Same goes for the mondragon, etc.

    While the sweeper, cei rigoti, autoloading 8.25, Etc. Have incredibly step drop-off curves.
    And are much more prone to create wtf moments.

    This is "facts" that directly results in "feelings" within the player that experience those "facts"!

    So again your "facts" are wrong and exaggerated.

    So you took the cei rigoti for example. First off the gun doesn't even drop off till about 33m, and when it does it goes from 38 to 28. So with higher mathematics that comes out to a 1 bullet kill difference. So tell me how you got your "facts" of 4 to 8 there. Let me take another one you brought up. Autoloading 8, first off the drop off is not drastic, but again we are talking 42 to 30dmg...again only 1 bullet kill difference.

    And yes I use the BAR, why, cause I like support and I feel most comfortable with it.

    Before you tell me to read up on my symthic..maybe you should get your facts straight, and maybe see that your example is bad.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Let's say I fire the exact number of shots it takes to kill a player and half of them aren't detected. Now let's say I fire the same number of shots but with twice the damage and half are detected. I'll take the second example every time. I don't see how this is not on topic and it could be a very simple solution.

    That will never happen in core. And it's already available in HC.

    You may very well be right but do you think that raising the weapon damage would alleviate some of the bad hit detection?

    No.

    You'd just get mad at the new timing.

    Things would feel "fixed" for a bit, but bullets not registering is not fixed by changing damage.


    That will never affect netcode. These are completely different things.

    Then explain why hit detection doesn't seem to be a problem in hc.

    I know I could play hc but there are reasons I don't like it.

    It appears to not be an issue cause you don't get any indication of killing someone. Just because it "feels" legit doesn't mean shots are not registering.

    Beside HC is not a fast paced game. Mostly just people camped around sniping.

    Besides what you are doing is covering up the issues not fixing it. It's like if you go to the mechanic complaining that your breaks are making noises and his solution is turning up the radio so you don't hear it anymore.

    Watching the other player fall over dead is not an indication? Why are you even arguing with me? You know as well as I do that the crying will continue until we are back at pre-patch.

    BTW I've never been to the mechanic complaining about my 'breaks' making noise. :)

    No it doesn't since you don't know how many hits it took to put him down. All you're doing is prooving is that there is a placebo effect since you're basing the quality of the game by feel and not facts.

    Stop trolling me.

    It's a public forum and last time a checked you're replying. Either way last time a checked, to disagree with someone's comments is not trolling. If you don't like that people don't agree with you, don't post.
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Let's say I fire the exact number of shots it takes to kill a player and half of them aren't detected. Now let's say I fire the same number of shots but with twice the damage and half are detected. I'll take the second example every time. I don't see how this is not on topic and it could be a very simple solution.

    That will never happen in core. And it's already available in HC.

    You may very well be right but do you think that raising the weapon damage would alleviate some of the bad hit detection?

    No.

    You'd just get mad at the new timing.

    Things would feel "fixed" for a bit, but bullets not registering is not fixed by changing damage.


    That will never affect netcode. These are completely different things.

    Then explain why hit detection doesn't seem to be a problem in hc.

    I know I could play hc but there are reasons I don't like it.

    It appears to not be an issue cause you don't get any indication of killing someone. Just because it "feels" legit doesn't mean shots are not registering.

    Beside HC is not a fast paced game. Mostly just people camped around sniping.

    Besides what you are doing is covering up the issues not fixing it. It's like if you go to the mechanic complaining that your breaks are making noises and his solution is turning up the radio so you don't hear it anymore.

    Watching the other player fall over dead is not an indication? Why are you even arguing with me? You know as well as I do that the crying will continue until we are back at pre-patch.

    BTW I've never been to the mechanic complaining about my 'breaks' making noise. :)

    No it doesn't since you don't know how many hits it took to put him down. All you're doing is prooving is that there is a placebo effect since you're basing the quality of the game by feel and not facts.

    If shoting at a player that is at the damage drop-off distance.. Lets say 20-21 meters to make it easy.

    It may take 4 hits to kill the enemy att 20 meters. And 8 hits at 21 meters.

    You think the player is at 20 meters, but the server think he is at 21 meters.

    Then it is a fact that it should take 8 hits to kill the player.
    But how does it make the engaging player to feel?

    Especially if you kill someone next to the player. Exept that player Is positioned at 20 meters on the server, and therefore dies after 4 hits.
    While the guy next to him takes 8 hits to kill!

    Its facts! But its also relevant how it feels and how it persives!

    Is it facts? Show me the damage curve that has that large of a drop over a meter. While damage drop off is greater here than some other titles, it's not that drastic....sorry but that's not a good example.

    Still don't see how it associates to hit detection.

    You do know, and understand what I meant with the example.
    You're just refusing to acknowledge it, so you can continue your childish way of being completely impossible to discuss with.

    Maybe you should read up on those symptic stats? Or just have a look at the ingame diagram..
    May be more productive for your gameplay experience, then raging your self unconscious over "the broken netcode" on twitch..

    The thing is. When you design a product made to be used by a big variety of people. You pretty much need to make it bulletproof.

    And how the game is experienced by the players, is the core thing for the game to be popular and survive!

    So you can wery much compare the "facts" against "how it feels"

    Why do you think you like the B A R?
    It have a low and slowly decreasing damage drop-off curve. Witch probably helps you to kill people without accurately estimating distance.
    Hence it eliminates many wtf moments = it feels better for you.

    Same goes for the mondragon, etc.

    While the sweeper, cei rigoti, autoloading 8.25, Etc. Have incredibly step drop-off curves.
    And are much more prone to create wtf moments.

    This is "facts" that directly results in "feelings" within the player that experience those "facts"!

    So again your "facts" are wrong and exaggerated.

    So you took the cei rigoti for example. First off the gun doesn't even drop off till about 33m, and when it does it goes from 38 to 28. So with higher mathematics that comes out to a 1 bullet kill difference. So tell me how you got your "facts" of 4 to 8 there. Let me take another one you brought up. Autoloading 8, first off the drop off is not drastic, but again we are talking 42 to 30dmg...again only 1 bullet kill difference.

    And yes I use the BAR, why, cause I like support and I feel most comfortable with it.

    Before you tell me to read up on my symthic..maybe you should get your facts straight, and maybe see that your example is bad.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @mmarkweII

    If I fire at the fireing range, between hard exercises. I will still manage to have similar groupings!
    Sure they will not be as tight as groups I shot from a bench!
    Comparing those too circumstances to eatchother is not realistic..

    Its just as stupid as comparing my performance during clay pigeon shoting.
    (I can average something like 22/25 pigeons, in Trapp shoting. No matter how exhausted I am!)
    To me fireing a 30.06 standing at 100 meters at a stationary target..

    The gun still fire's accurate and the recoil will still remain the same, the groupings will only be affected by my incresed gunsway!

    And those mechanics are already in the game!
    Go prone using a bipod, and your gun sway will decrease. Thats perfectly fine!

    @VBALL_MVP

    Ofcorse suppressive fire is a thing in real life!
    Do you whant to stick your head out from cover, when someone is spraying bullets at that area?

    Does your gun sudenly start to lose its accuracy and behave like crazy? No it will not!

    If you're going that way, we can also say that war wets would be used to operate under hectic situations and under the influence of adrenaline.
    And therefore they would perform well enough.

    Does this mean dice should put more variables in to the game.
    And make your character less affected by suppression, mowement, etc the higer in rank you are?
    To mimic that your being more and more hardened and used to fighting..

    Every one knows no one of you two will agree to anything of this.. Not because you actually like the "features" but simply because you love to have a "different opinion"....

    Gun sway would be a much better mechanic to use when firing when moving, IRL when firing when running the bullets will still fly straight and go where the sight is aiming. RNG spread has no place when theirs already a better mechanic that can be used to reduce accuracy when firing on the move, gun sway would communicate to the player much better aswell what is going on e.g there soldier is running and firing so can't keep his sights on target just like IRL.

    Suppression is a band aid for the low damage inaccurate slow TTK guns, the trouble is the lmgs are the weakest guns especially at range everyone knows they take 6-7 shots to kill have <600rpm firerates and <50 round mags and high spread. So even assuming 100% accuracy you will need more like 8-10 shots to account for the spread mechanics, 8-10 shots at sub 600rpm makes for a slow ttk it gives the player being shot at plenty of time to re position or fire back so no one fears having a lmg being fired at them in this game, if the lmgs were better balanced and had better damage over range and less spread the ttk would be lower so players would be more fearful of them so would be less likely to try and return fire when being shot at and stay in cover without the suppression mechanic.
    I think there should be accuracy penalties but only if you are being hit I don't think you should be able to shoot with perfect accuracy if your being hit, flinch or more vertical recoil should be used to reduce accuracy when being hit. Suppression is unneeded and a bad mechanic since it rewards players for missing and just randomly spraying bullets.

    I agree gun sway would be a better solution, but you know the drill. You will see threads come up stating that their controller broke cause their gun keeps moving...and then state only OOR causes it.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @mmarkweII

    If I fire at the fireing range, between hard exercises. I will still manage to have similar groupings!
    Sure they will not be as tight as groups I shot from a bench!
    Comparing those too circumstances to eatchother is not realistic..

    Its just as stupid as comparing my performance during clay pigeon shoting.
    (I can average something like 22/25 pigeons, in Trapp shoting. No matter how exhausted I am!)
    To me fireing a 30.06 standing at 100 meters at a stationary target..

    The gun still fire's accurate and the recoil will still remain the same, the groupings will only be affected by my incresed gunsway!

    And those mechanics are already in the game!
    Go prone using a bipod, and your gun sway will decrease. Thats perfectly fine!

    @VBALL_MVP

    Ofcorse suppressive fire is a thing in real life!
    Do you whant to stick your head out from cover, when someone is spraying bullets at that area?

    Does your gun sudenly start to lose its accuracy and behave like crazy? No it will not!

    If you're going that way, we can also say that war wets would be used to operate under hectic situations and under the influence of adrenaline.
    And therefore they would perform well enough.

    Does this mean dice should put more variables in to the game.
    And make your character less affected by suppression, mowement, etc the higer in rank you are?
    To mimic that your being more and more hardened and used to fighting..

    Every one knows no one of you two will agree to anything of this.. Not because you actually like the "features" but simply because you love to have a "different opinion"....

    Gun sway would be a much better mechanic to use when firing when moving, IRL when firing when running the bullets will still fly straight and go where the sight is aiming. RNG spread has no place when theirs already a better mechanic that can be used to reduce accuracy when firing on the move, gun sway would communicate to the player much better aswell what is going on e.g there soldier is running and firing so can't keep his sights on target just like IRL.

    Suppression is a band aid for the low damage inaccurate slow TTK guns, the trouble is the lmgs are the weakest guns especially at range everyone knows they take 6-7 shots to kill have <600rpm firerates and <50 round mags and high spread. So even assuming 100% accuracy you will need more like 8-10 shots to account for the spread mechanics, 8-10 shots at sub 600rpm makes for a slow ttk it gives the player being shot at plenty of time to re position or fire back so no one fears having a lmg being fired at them in this game, if the lmgs were better balanced and had better damage over range and less spread the ttk would be lower so players would be more fearful of them so would be less likely to try and return fire when being shot at and stay in cover without the suppression mechanic.
    I think there should be accuracy penalties but only if you are being hit I don't think you should be able to shoot with perfect accuracy if your being hit, flinch or more vertical recoil should be used to reduce accuracy when being hit. Suppression is unneeded and a bad mechanic since it rewards players for missing and just randomly spraying bullets.

    I agree gun sway would be a better solution, but you know the drill. You will see threads come up stating that their controller broke cause their gun keeps moving...and then state only OOR causes it.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @mmarkweII

    If I fire at the fireing range, between hard exercises. I will still manage to have similar groupings!
    Sure they will not be as tight as groups I shot from a bench!
    Comparing those too circumstances to eatchother is not realistic..

    Its just as stupid as comparing my performance during clay pigeon shoting.
    (I can average something like 22/25 pigeons, in Trapp shoting. No matter how exhausted I am!)
    To me fireing a 30.06 standing at 100 meters at a stationary target..

    The gun still fire's accurate and the recoil will still remain the same, the groupings will only be affected by my incresed gunsway!

    And those mechanics are already in the game!
    Go prone using a bipod, and your gun sway will decrease. Thats perfectly fine!

    @VBALL_MVP

    Ofcorse suppressive fire is a thing in real life!
    Do you whant to stick your head out from cover, when someone is spraying bullets at that area?

    Does your gun sudenly start to lose its accuracy and behave like crazy? No it will not!

    If you're going that way, we can also say that war wets would be used to operate under hectic situations and under the influence of adrenaline.
    And therefore they would perform well enough.

    Does this mean dice should put more variables in to the game.
    And make your character less affected by suppression, mowement, etc the higer in rank you are?
    To mimic that your being more and more hardened and used to fighting..

    Every one knows no one of you two will agree to anything of this.. Not because you actually like the "features" but simply because you love to have a "different opinion"....

    Gun sway would be a much better mechanic to use when firing when moving, IRL when firing when running the bullets will still fly straight and go where the sight is aiming. RNG spread has no place when theirs already a better mechanic that can be used to reduce accuracy when firing on the move, gun sway would communicate to the player much better aswell what is going on e.g there soldier is running and firing so can't keep his sights on target just like IRL.

    Suppression is a band aid for the low damage inaccurate slow TTK guns, the trouble is the lmgs are the weakest guns especially at range everyone knows they take 6-7 shots to kill have <600rpm firerates and <50 round mags and high spread. So even assuming 100% accuracy you will need more like 8-10 shots to account for the spread mechanics, 8-10 shots at sub 600rpm makes for a slow ttk it gives the player being shot at plenty of time to re position or fire back so no one fears having a lmg being fired at them in this game, if the lmgs were better balanced and had better damage over range and less spread the ttk would be lower so players would be more fearful of them so would be less likely to try and return fire when being shot at and stay in cover without the suppression mechanic.
    I think there should be accuracy penalties but only if you are being hit I don't think you should be able to shoot with perfect accuracy if your being hit, flinch or more vertical recoil should be used to reduce accuracy when being hit. Suppression is unneeded and a bad mechanic since it rewards players for missing and just randomly spraying bullets.

    I agree gun sway would be a better solution, but you know the drill. You will see threads come up stating that their controller broke cause their gun keeps moving...and then state only OOR causes it.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @mmarkweII

    If I fire at the fireing range, between hard exercises. I will still manage to have similar groupings!
    Sure they will not be as tight as groups I shot from a bench!
    Comparing those too circumstances to eatchother is not realistic..

    Its just as stupid as comparing my performance during clay pigeon shoting.
    (I can average something like 22/25 pigeons, in Trapp shoting. No matter how exhausted I am!)
    To me fireing a 30.06 standing at 100 meters at a stationary target..

    The gun still fire's accurate and the recoil will still remain the same, the groupings will only be affected by my incresed gunsway!

    And those mechanics are already in the game!
    Go prone using a bipod, and your gun sway will decrease. Thats perfectly fine!

    @VBALL_MVP

    Ofcorse suppressive fire is a thing in real life!
    Do you whant to stick your head out from cover, when someone is spraying bullets at that area?

    Does your gun sudenly start to lose its accuracy and behave like crazy? No it will not!

    If you're going that way, we can also say that war wets would be used to operate under hectic situations and under the influence of adrenaline.
    And therefore they would perform well enough.

    Does this mean dice should put more variables in to the game.
    And make your character less affected by suppression, mowement, etc the higer in rank you are?
    To mimic that your being more and more hardened and used to fighting..

    Every one knows no one of you two will agree to anything of this.. Not because you actually like the "features" but simply because you love to have a "different opinion"....

    Gun sway would be a much better mechanic to use when firing when moving, IRL when firing when running the bullets will still fly straight and go where the sight is aiming. RNG spread has no place when theirs already a better mechanic that can be used to reduce accuracy when firing on the move, gun sway would communicate to the player much better aswell what is going on e.g there soldier is running and firing so can't keep his sights on target just like IRL.

    Suppression is a band aid for the low damage inaccurate slow TTK guns, the trouble is the lmgs are the weakest guns especially at range everyone knows they take 6-7 shots to kill have <600rpm firerates and <50 round mags and high spread. So even assuming 100% accuracy you will need more like 8-10 shots to account for the spread mechanics, 8-10 shots at sub 600rpm makes for a slow ttk it gives the player being shot at plenty of time to re position or fire back so no one fears having a lmg being fired at them in this game, if the lmgs were better balanced and had better damage over range and less spread the ttk would be lower so players would be more fearful of them so would be less likely to try and return fire when being shot at and stay in cover without the suppression mechanic.
    I think there should be accuracy penalties but only if you are being hit I don't think you should be able to shoot with perfect accuracy if your being hit, flinch or more vertical recoil should be used to reduce accuracy when being hit. Suppression is unneeded and a bad mechanic since it rewards players for missing and just randomly spraying bullets.

    I agree gun sway would be a better solution, but you know the drill. You will see threads come up stating that their controller broke cause their gun keeps moving...and then state only OOR causes it.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If some people dont want to record doenst mean They are part of the problem. The problem is game bugs and poor hit detection. Not if one chooses to record or not. When i play 1-2 rounds a day after work orso to relax and i see a lot of issues i quit. Im not interested in recording known issues since BF3. I already have a job so don't got the patience and time to test a game.

    That is a choice I make like other choose to record a game. Im a customer and not a quality tester. I respect people that do record but please do the same for people who wo wont do it for their own personal reasons.

    Just leave it at that and keep it on topic. It's hit detection no about the built in DVR or steam or what ever. We were warned so lets keep the thread open. And RESPECT others opinion even when You don't agree. Its a forum and not propaganda pamflet.

    The thread is about hit detection and getting resolved. So this is on topic. Mischkag himself stated he can't solve the problem if we don't supply him the evidence.

    As kingtolapsium and others have stated, the updates shouldn't have made it so that one with low latency shouldn't have issues hitting enemies. If this is happening it's beneficial to show it so it can get fixed.

    With respect, the time it takes to capture a event is no longer than typing a post in this thread.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If some people dont want to record doenst mean They are part of the problem. The problem is game bugs and poor hit detection. Not if one chooses to record or not. When i play 1-2 rounds a day after work orso to relax and i see a lot of issues i quit. Im not interested in recording known issues since BF3. I already have a job so don't got the patience and time to test a game.

    That is a choice I make like other choose to record a game. Im a customer and not a quality tester. I respect people that do record but please do the same for people who wo wont do it for their own personal reasons.

    Just leave it at that and keep it on topic. It's hit detection no about the built in DVR or steam or what ever. We were warned so lets keep the thread open. And RESPECT others opinion even when You don't agree. Its a forum and not propaganda pamflet.

    The thread is about hit detection and getting resolved. So this is on topic. Mischkag himself stated he can't solve the problem if we don't supply him the evidence.

    As kingtolapsium and others have stated, the updates shouldn't have made it so that one with low latency shouldn't have issues hitting enemies. If this is happening it's beneficial to show it so it can get fixed.

    With respect, the time it takes to capture a event is no longer than typing a post in this thread.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If some people dont want to record doenst mean They are part of the problem. The problem is game bugs and poor hit detection. Not if one chooses to record or not. When i play 1-2 rounds a day after work orso to relax and i see a lot of issues i quit. Im not interested in recording known issues since BF3. I already have a job so don't got the patience and time to test a game.

    That is a choice I make like other choose to record a game. Im a customer and not a quality tester. I respect people that do record but please do the same for people who wo wont do it for their own personal reasons.

    Just leave it at that and keep it on topic. It's hit detection no about the built in DVR or steam or what ever. We were warned so lets keep the thread open. And RESPECT others opinion even when You don't agree. Its a forum and not propaganda pamflet.

    The thread is about hit detection and getting resolved. So this is on topic. Mischkag himself stated he can't solve the problem if we don't supply him the evidence.

    As kingtolapsium and others have stated, the updates shouldn't have made it so that one with low latency shouldn't have issues hitting enemies. If this is happening it's beneficial to show it so it can get fixed.

    With respect, the time it takes to capture a event is no longer than typing a post in this thread.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If some people dont want to record doenst mean They are part of the problem. The problem is game bugs and poor hit detection. Not if one chooses to record or not. When i play 1-2 rounds a day after work orso to relax and i see a lot of issues i quit. Im not interested in recording known issues since BF3. I already have a job so don't got the patience and time to test a game.

    That is a choice I make like other choose to record a game. Im a customer and not a quality tester. I respect people that do record but please do the same for people who wo wont do it for their own personal reasons.

    Just leave it at that and keep it on topic. It's hit detection no about the built in DVR or steam or what ever. We were warned so lets keep the thread open. And RESPECT others opinion even when You don't agree. Its a forum and not propaganda pamflet.

    The thread is about hit detection and getting resolved. So this is on topic. Mischkag himself stated he can't solve the problem if we don't supply him the evidence.

    As kingtolapsium and others have stated, the updates shouldn't have made it so that one with low latency shouldn't have issues hitting enemies. If this is happening it's beneficial to show it so it can get fixed.

    With respect, the time it takes to capture a event is no longer than typing a post in this thread.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If some people dont want to record doenst mean They are part of the problem. The problem is game bugs and poor hit detection. Not if one chooses to record or not. When i play 1-2 rounds a day after work orso to relax and i see a lot of issues i quit. Im not interested in recording known issues since BF3. I already have a job so don't got the patience and time to test a game.

    That is a choice I make like other choose to record a game. Im a customer and not a quality tester. I respect people that do record but please do the same for people who wo wont do it for their own personal reasons.

    Just leave it at that and keep it on topic. It's hit detection no about the built in DVR or steam or what ever. We were warned so lets keep the thread open. And RESPECT others opinion even when You don't agree. Its a forum and not propaganda pamflet.

    The thread is about hit detection and getting resolved. So this is on topic. Mischkag himself stated he can't solve the problem if we don't supply him the evidence.

    As kingtolapsium and others have stated, the updates shouldn't have made it so that one with low latency shouldn't have issues hitting enemies. If this is happening it's beneficial to show it so it can get fixed.

    With respect, the time it takes to capture a event is no longer than typing a post in this thread.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If some people dont want to record doenst mean They are part of the problem. The problem is game bugs and poor hit detection. Not if one chooses to record or not. When i play 1-2 rounds a day after work orso to relax and i see a lot of issues i quit. Im not interested in recording known issues since BF3. I already have a job so don't got the patience and time to test a game.

    That is a choice I make like other choose to record a game. Im a customer and not a quality tester. I respect people that do record but please do the same for people who wo wont do it for their own personal reasons.

    Just leave it at that and keep it on topic. It's hit detection no about the built in DVR or steam or what ever. We were warned so lets keep the thread open. And RESPECT others opinion even when You don't agree. Its a forum and not propaganda pamflet.

    The thread is about hit detection and getting resolved. So this is on topic. Mischkag himself stated he can't solve the problem if we don't supply him the evidence.

    As kingtolapsium and others have stated, the updates shouldn't have made it so that one with low latency shouldn't have issues hitting enemies. If this is happening it's beneficial to show it so it can get fixed.

    With respect, the time it takes to capture a event is no longer than typing a post in this thread.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If some people dont want to record doenst mean They are part of the problem. The problem is game bugs and poor hit detection. Not if one chooses to record or not. When i play 1-2 rounds a day after work orso to relax and i see a lot of issues i quit. Im not interested in recording known issues since BF3. I already have a job so don't got the patience and time to test a game.

    That is a choice I make like other choose to record a game. Im a customer and not a quality tester. I respect people that do record but please do the same for people who wo wont do it for their own personal reasons.

    Just leave it at that and keep it on topic. It's hit detection no about the built in DVR or steam or what ever. We were warned so lets keep the thread open. And RESPECT others opinion even when You don't agree. Its a forum and not propaganda pamflet.

    The thread is about hit detection and getting resolved. So this is on topic. Mischkag himself stated he can't solve the problem if we don't supply him the evidence.

    As kingtolapsium and others have stated, the updates shouldn't have made it so that one with low latency shouldn't have issues hitting enemies. If this is happening it's beneficial to show it so it can get fixed.

    With respect, the time it takes to capture a event is no longer than typing a post in this thread.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If some people dont want to record doenst mean They are part of the problem. The problem is game bugs and poor hit detection. Not if one chooses to record or not. When i play 1-2 rounds a day after work orso to relax and i see a lot of issues i quit. Im not interested in recording known issues since BF3. I already have a job so don't got the patience and time to test a game.

    That is a choice I make like other choose to record a game. Im a customer and not a quality tester. I respect people that do record but please do the same for people who wo wont do it for their own personal reasons.

    Just leave it at that and keep it on topic. It's hit detection no about the built in DVR or steam or what ever. We were warned so lets keep the thread open. And RESPECT others opinion even when You don't agree. Its a forum and not propaganda pamflet.

    The thread is about hit detection and getting resolved. So this is on topic. Mischkag himself stated he can't solve the problem if we don't supply him the evidence.

    As kingtolapsium and others have stated, the updates shouldn't have made it so that one with low latency shouldn't have issues hitting enemies. If this is happening it's beneficial to show it so it can get fixed.

    With respect, the time it takes to capture a event is no longer than typing a post in this thread.
  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    What is going on?
    On my side, there's like 30 new post's in this thread. Mainly VBALL_MVP responses to old stuff..

    Is it only me? Or is it like that for everyone?
  • X_justhaze_X
    365 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member

    So this is the fifth time this has happened to me!!! I've gotten out, gotten back in, switched main weapons even repaired the Tank to no avail. When you shoot other tanks it's just a puff of smoke.

  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    So this is the fifth time this has happened to me!!! I've gotten out, gotten back in, switched main weapons even repaired the Tank to no avail. When you shoot other tanks it's just a puff of smoke.


    Many players have this problem. Mischkag is looking in to it.
  • mmarkweII
    2919 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    So this is the fifth time this has happened to me!!! I've gotten out, gotten back in, switched main weapons even repaired the Tank to no avail. When you shoot other tanks it's just a puff of smoke.


    Have you tried to see if your 3rd person crosshairs are lined up where the first person crosshairs are? There was an issue in the beta where the 3rd person crosshairs were WAY off from the first person, by a lot.

    Full disclosure. I watched on my phone and couldn't tell.
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