@KingTolapsium has any progress been made with the held by damage issue?
Had a very blatant example of it happen to me the other night, was actually pulled back a few feet.
Well firstly, did you happen to record?
I'm not aware of any immediate fixes, there was mention of improved mitigation of late and lossy damage in the Lupkow patch notes, but I've seen "damage holding" as recently as this week in cte and retail. It's clearly linked to late damage. It's probably not a top priority because at 60hz the issue is less tangible.
It's a VERY FRUSTRATING issue, I would honestly love to play bf1 without feeling "cheated", but the only place I can find such solace is in single player. I honestly don't know how much progress will be made while we have no ping lock, or dual server sets.
That is not to say the netcode is at fault persay, currently there are some odd hit-reg issues (that we should all attempt to record) which are netcode related, but most of these issues with desync are an unfortunate side effect of the realities of global networking.
Due to the max desync between players under the softcap (160-200ms), at 30hz there is no way to stop bullets reaching around cover. Or to stop close quarters engagements from appearing vastly different on two clients. This is inherently going to muddy the waters, add in the potential additional desync from local network buffering/bloat, the framedrops on the client, and the lower tick players operating under bandwidth restrictions. It is guaranteed you will run into "impossible" combat instances.
As a low ping client (sub 100ms) there should be zero mitigation of my player location/movement due to enemy damage. This is not to say the damage should be rejected, but it should not tangibly disrupt locomotion, ever.
This is a reasonable request, and should be of utter importance and top priority. I am tired of the DICE getting so caught up in their "narrative of progress" that we cannot fix BASIC ENGINE ISSUES that affect a MASSIVE MAJORITY of players, whether or not said players can properly vocalize the issue.
Devs: Please do not misinterpret my frustration as hate, or as an attempt to drive your narrative, this is mearly a clear statement on unclear issues that have yet to be addressed, the potential for alleviating these issues lies in your hands. I hope action is taken.
A couple of times ive had teammates kill the guy dealing the damage and save me when frozen to the spot and I survived with 1 health.
Also many times I get frozen before I start taking damage but I always die.
Whether I die or not seems irrelevant it completely spoils the game when most gun fights I just get frozen to spot, whats the point in even playing the game when in the best moments of about to get a shoot out going with other players I just get frozen to the spot and can't do anything other than await my predetermined death. It's BS of the highest level.
Being killed by invisible players has returned. Good job Dice.
This could be quite a few different bugs. Without footage, it's pretty hard to guess.
It's the bug that was already fixed and addressed in the patch notes. You die and THEN the other guy appears on your screen. It's part of the fubar netcode.
Being killed by invisible players has returned. Good job Dice.
This could be quite a few different bugs. Without footage, it's pretty hard to guess.
It's the bug that was already fixed and addressed in the patch notes. You die and THEN the other guy appears on your screen. It's part of the fubar netcode.
Being killed by invisible players has returned. Good job Dice.
This could be quite a few different bugs. Without footage, it's pretty hard to guess.
It's the bug that was already fixed and addressed in the patch notes. You die and THEN the other guy appears on your screen. It's part of the fubar netcode.
I don't know why I bother responding.
I don't either since you're not adding anything to the conversation.
Being killed by invisible players has returned. Good job Dice.
This could be quite a few different bugs. Without footage, it's pretty hard to guess.
It's the bug that was already fixed and addressed in the patch notes. You die and THEN the other guy appears on your screen. It's part of the fubar netcode.
I don't know why I bother responding.
I don't either since you're not adding anything to the conversation.
Look dude, I am trying to help. You not posting footage really doesn't help your cause.
At all.
I know it's easier to say "some invisible guy killed me", but one lone voice on the forums with no proof is almost guaranteed to be ignored.
Being killed by invisible players has returned. Good job Dice.
This could be quite a few different bugs. Without footage, it's pretty hard to guess.
It's the bug that was already fixed and addressed in the patch notes. You die and THEN the other guy appears on your screen. It's part of the fubar netcode.
I don't know why I bother responding.
I don't either since you're not adding anything to the conversation.
Dude, King knows his ****. You should post the vid & let it be seen.
I can't remember, I'll check next time I turn the console on.
I should note that I do remember considering hitting the record button and thinking that it would be pointless since I didn't have the net graph on - just don't remember if I decided to record it anyway.
Most times, when something glitchy happens and I consider recording, I hear an annoying little voice in the back of my head telling me that my video is useless w/out the graph (which I refuse to use unless and until they make it far less obtrusive) or that the issue I'm considering recording is probably the fault of my own connection - nodes and hops and bloat, oh my - and that I'll have to work to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it isn't before any video will be considered valid, and I just say, "frak it, not worth it."
It's worth considering, by those who claim to have only the best interests of the quality of the game in mind (not talking about you, King), whether their standards of proof and quickness to dismiss and invalidate any proffered examples with extreme prejudice may do more harm than good, in terms of gathering data, by ultimately discouraging people from sharing their experiences at all and "throwing the baby out with the bath water".
Yesterday I fired up the game and using the server browser "sort by ping" option I loaded into an ongoing Conquest match with my team in the lead around 850 - 675. Hit detection was horrible, usual bundled lmg damage and my character being frozen in place by suppression mechanics totally unable to react. Struggled and fought like hell to go 4 - 4. My latency was 42ms. 5 guys on my team over 100ms with the 2 highest @ 174ms & 172ms.
Top guy on other team was 21 - 17 with latency over 300ms. Sixth place on their side also had latency over 300ms and went 15 - 21. Both were support class. Tenth place had latency of 165ms went 21 - 19 as a scout. Those 3 players had the highest latency on their side. 11th place was at 123ms and they had another guy at 100ms in 20th place. Everyone else on their side was well under 100ms.
Played another match on a different server. Same garbage. Shut it down. Had enough.
Played a few games this morning with a friend who lives in Las Vegas on West Coast server. My latency held steady between 82ms - 84ms. Same crap, different day. The held by damage until dead is sooo much fun. Same for emptying a clip into someones back and they turn around and kill you instantly. It's awesome. I've pretty much reached the point of putting this game down for good.
It's the same old song and dance. Promises, promises. I seriously doubt it will ever be fixed. I find it totally pathetic we are still asked to provide gameplay clips. Let the devs from Dice play this game at their own homes and record it because they could easily see the same crap we do.
I can't remember, I'll check next time I turn the console on.
I should note that I do remember considering hitting the record button and thinking that it would be pointless since I didn't have the net graph on - just don't remember if I decided to record it anyway.
Most times, when something glitchy happens and I consider recording, I hear an annoying little voice in the back of my head telling me that my video is useless w/out the graph (which I refuse to use unless and until they make it far less obtrusive) or that the issue I'm considering recording is probably the fault of my own connection - nodes and hops and bloat, oh my - and that I'll have to work to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it isn't before any video will be considered valid, and I just say, "frak it, not worth it."
It's worth considering, by those who claim to have only the best interests of the quality of the game in mind (not talking about you, King), whether their standards of proof and quickness to dismiss and invalidate any proffered examples with extreme prejudice may do more harm than good, in terms of gathering data, by ultimately discouraging people from sharing their experiences at all and "throwing the baby out with the bath water".
Just something to think about.
I agree, some of the "Armchair QA" floating around does not benefit us, and players should remember that we all impart heavy bias, whether willingly or unwillingly.
Regarding the netgraph, it is important for sure, but since Mischkag made the network warning icons permanent there is no way for a poor connection to masquerade as a lowly latent stable client. With this in mind, footage without the netgraph is more valuable than it was previously.
Do not let the bias of others stop you from reporting issues, especially when some spend more time on the forums than they do ingame.
King, I mean you no offense as I know you're trying to help but I really think it's a lost cause. EA obviously thinks it's good enough.
I totally empathize with your position, but I refuse to believe that the individuals at DICE don't want to offer consistent quality across all platforms and modes.
EA might think it's good enough, which is why I talk to individuals who do care.
I believe the dev said its a compromise, if the late/missing packets weren't compensated for then that player would loose the actions/damage that packet contained the game would be unplayable for that player even though that would be the fair logical way to do it have a cap on the missing/ delayed packets then reject them.
From experience theres a large amount of players playing this game with poorly optimised/ bad connections most so bad the server doesn't know where to place there character models because it hasn't received any valid data in a long time, all other fps shooters run the same backwards netcodes that compensate for lost/late data so if battlefield was to start rejecting the late/lost data a large amount of the playerbase would complain and move to the other fps shooters where there data loss is still compensated for giving them a much better experience, sure battlefield would run like a dream for players with good connections but from experience I think were in the minority.
The best compromise would be ping locked servers I can't see them ever reversing the netcode so ping locked servers is the best hope.
I'm having big time hit detection issues since last patch!! Never had a problem before. In North America on east coast. Tried different servers etc etc. The model 10 shotguns work fine but the m97 shotguns don't work at all more than half the time. I literally walked up behind an enemy player that was prone sniping and pointed my shotgun at center mass and unloaded all 5 shots.....didn't get one hit marker and the other player didn't start to move until shot 4 or 5. Also I've been trying to complete both the 15 kills in one round with the m97 trench gun hunter AND the 5 head shots in one round with the Russian sniper rifle and the count either doesn't work at all or gets halfway through and just sticks there. It's not my connection or ping. Posted a comment on you tube at it earlier today and had at least a dozen people agree that it's happening to them now also.
New issue here. I dont know if it is related to hit reg. No damage at all done. PS4. It happened mid match after some desync, server side problem indicators.
I believe the dev said its a compromise, if the late/missing packets weren't compensated for then that player would loose the actions/damage that packet contained the game would be unplayable for that player even though that would be the fair logical way to do it have a cap on the missing/ delayed packets then reject them.
From experience theres a large amount of players playing this game with poorly optimised/ bad connections most so bad the server doesn't know where to place there character models because it hasn't received any valid data in a long time, all other fps shooters run the same backwards netcodes that compensate for lost/late data so if battlefield was to start rejecting the late/lost data a large amount of the playerbase would complain and move to the other fps shooters where there data loss is still compensated for giving them a much better experience, sure battlefield would run like a dream for players with good connections but from experience I think were in the minority.
The best compromise would be ping locked servers I can't see them ever reversing the netcode so ping locked servers is the best hope.
The vast majority of players in North America are well under 100ms with their connections.
I am not asking them to revert the netcode, as I feel there have ALWAYS been problems in BF and actually really appreciate the effort into improving the networking.
I am simply asking for things to function properly for low ping, THERE IS NOTHING INHERENT WITH SERVERSIDE HIT DETECTION THAT SHOULD AFFECT LOW PING PLAYERS MOVEMENT TO CORRELATE WITH LOSSY AND LATE DAMAGE.
I don't think anyone questions that dual server sets (restricted/unrestricted) are the best possible solution, unfortunately DICE did not prioritize such a feature, hopefully that will change in the future.
The vast majority of players in North America are well under 100ms with their connections.
I am not asking them to revert the netcode, as I feel there have ALWAYS been problems in BF and actually really appreciate the effort into improving the networking.
I am simply asking for things to function properly for low ping,
Going off the scoreboard pings the majority is under 100ms , but the scoreboard pings don't show packet loss until its more serve than you get the fluctuating pings. The server has to wait for a re-sent packet when a packet is lost even on a low latency connection that packet would be late and out - of -sync but the data still applied in game causing de sync despite the low ping.
Reverting the netcode or separating the high and low ping players is the only way by the physics of the internet the game is ever going to function properly for low latency players
The vast majority of players in North America are well under 100ms with their connections.
I am not asking them to revert the netcode, as I feel there have ALWAYS been problems in BF and actually really appreciate the effort into improving the networking.
I am simply asking for things to function properly for low ping,
Going off the scoreboard pings the majority is under 100ms , but the scoreboard pings don't show packet loss until its more serve than you get the fluctuating pings. The server has to wait for a re-sent packet when a packet is lost even on a low latency connection that packet would be late and out - of -sync but the data still applied in game causing de sync despite the low ping.
Reverting the netcode or separating the high and low ping players is the only way by the physics of the internet the game is ever going to function properly for low latency players
I do not understand what you think they are going to revert to.
Bf has always had issues rationalizing desync.
I'm not buying into the theory that things used to be so great, because I've been having issues the whole time.
Comments
Well firstly, did you happen to record?
I'm not aware of any immediate fixes, there was mention of improved mitigation of late and lossy damage in the Lupkow patch notes, but I've seen "damage holding" as recently as this week in cte and retail. It's clearly linked to late damage. It's probably not a top priority because at 60hz the issue is less tangible.
It's a VERY FRUSTRATING issue, I would honestly love to play bf1 without feeling "cheated", but the only place I can find such solace is in single player. I honestly don't know how much progress will be made while we have no ping lock, or dual server sets.
That is not to say the netcode is at fault persay, currently there are some odd hit-reg issues (that we should all attempt to record) which are netcode related, but most of these issues with desync are an unfortunate side effect of the realities of global networking.
Due to the max desync between players under the softcap (160-200ms), at 30hz there is no way to stop bullets reaching around cover. Or to stop close quarters engagements from appearing vastly different on two clients. This is inherently going to muddy the waters, add in the potential additional desync from local network buffering/bloat, the framedrops on the client, and the lower tick players operating under bandwidth restrictions. It is guaranteed you will run into "impossible" combat instances.
As a low ping client (sub 100ms) there should be zero mitigation of my player location/movement due to enemy damage. This is not to say the damage should be rejected, but it should not tangibly disrupt locomotion, ever.
This is a reasonable request, and should be of utter importance and top priority. I am tired of the DICE getting so caught up in their "narrative of progress" that we cannot fix BASIC ENGINE ISSUES that affect a MASSIVE MAJORITY of players, whether or not said players can properly vocalize the issue.
Devs: Please do not misinterpret my frustration as hate, or as an attempt to drive your narrative, this is mearly a clear statement on unclear issues that have yet to be addressed, the potential for alleviating these issues lies in your hands. I hope action is taken.
Also many times I get frozen before I start taking damage but I always die.
Whether I die or not seems irrelevant it completely spoils the game when most gun fights I just get frozen to spot, whats the point in even playing the game when in the best moments of about to get a shoot out going with other players I just get frozen to the spot and can't do anything other than await my predetermined death. It's BS of the highest level.
It's the bug that was already fixed and addressed in the patch notes. You die and THEN the other guy appears on your screen. It's part of the fubar netcode.
I don't know why I bother responding.
I don't either since you're not adding anything to the conversation.
Look dude, I am trying to help. You not posting footage really doesn't help your cause.
At all.
I know it's easier to say "some invisible guy killed me", but one lone voice on the forums with no proof is almost guaranteed to be ignored.
I don't want your issue to be ignored.
Dude, King knows his ****. You should post the vid & let it be seen.
I should note that I do remember considering hitting the record button and thinking that it would be pointless since I didn't have the net graph on - just don't remember if I decided to record it anyway.
Most times, when something glitchy happens and I consider recording, I hear an annoying little voice in the back of my head telling me that my video is useless w/out the graph (which I refuse to use unless and until they make it far less obtrusive) or that the issue I'm considering recording is probably the fault of my own connection - nodes and hops and bloat, oh my - and that I'll have to work to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it isn't before any video will be considered valid, and I just say, "frak it, not worth it."
It's worth considering, by those who claim to have only the best interests of the quality of the game in mind (not talking about you, King), whether their standards of proof and quickness to dismiss and invalidate any proffered examples with extreme prejudice may do more harm than good, in terms of gathering data, by ultimately discouraging people from sharing their experiences at all and "throwing the baby out with the bath water".
Just something to think about.
Top guy on other team was 21 - 17 with latency over 300ms. Sixth place on their side also had latency over 300ms and went 15 - 21. Both were support class. Tenth place had latency of 165ms went 21 - 19 as a scout. Those 3 players had the highest latency on their side. 11th place was at 123ms and they had another guy at 100ms in 20th place. Everyone else on their side was well under 100ms.
Played another match on a different server. Same garbage. Shut it down. Had enough.
Played a few games this morning with a friend who lives in Las Vegas on West Coast server. My latency held steady between 82ms - 84ms. Same crap, different day. The held by damage until dead is sooo much fun. Same for emptying a clip into someones back and they turn around and kill you instantly. It's awesome. I've pretty much reached the point of putting this game down for good.
It's the same old song and dance. Promises, promises. I seriously doubt it will ever be fixed. I find it totally pathetic we are still asked to provide gameplay clips. Let the devs from Dice play this game at their own homes and record it because they could easily see the same crap we do.
I agree, some of the "Armchair QA" floating around does not benefit us, and players should remember that we all impart heavy bias, whether willingly or unwillingly.
Regarding the netgraph, it is important for sure, but since Mischkag made the network warning icons permanent there is no way for a poor connection to masquerade as a lowly latent stable client. With this in mind, footage without the netgraph is more valuable than it was previously.
Do not let the bias of others stop you from reporting issues, especially when some spend more time on the forums than they do ingame.
@SMithERs228
Asking a dev to do QA work, is like asking someone to pick up a second full time job when they are already pushing overtime. We need to be reasonable.
I totally empathize with your position, but I refuse to believe that the individuals at DICE don't want to offer consistent quality across all platforms and modes.
EA might think it's good enough, which is why I talk to individuals who do care.
From experience theres a large amount of players playing this game with poorly optimised/ bad connections most so bad the server doesn't know where to place there character models because it hasn't received any valid data in a long time, all other fps shooters run the same backwards netcodes that compensate for lost/late data so if battlefield was to start rejecting the late/lost data a large amount of the playerbase would complain and move to the other fps shooters where there data loss is still compensated for giving them a much better experience, sure battlefield would run like a dream for players with good connections but from experience I think were in the minority.
The best compromise would be ping locked servers I can't see them ever reversing the netcode so ping locked servers is the best hope.
Video:
The vast majority of players in North America are well under 100ms with their connections.
I am not asking them to revert the netcode, as I feel there have ALWAYS been problems in BF and actually really appreciate the effort into improving the networking.
I am simply asking for things to function properly for low ping, THERE IS NOTHING INHERENT WITH SERVERSIDE HIT DETECTION THAT SHOULD AFFECT LOW PING PLAYERS MOVEMENT TO CORRELATE WITH LOSSY AND LATE DAMAGE.
I don't think anyone questions that dual server sets (restricted/unrestricted) are the best possible solution, unfortunately DICE did not prioritize such a feature, hopefully that will change in the future.
Going off the scoreboard pings the majority is under 100ms , but the scoreboard pings don't show packet loss until its more serve than you get the fluctuating pings. The server has to wait for a re-sent packet when a packet is lost even on a low latency connection that packet would be late and out - of -sync but the data still applied in game causing de sync despite the low ping.
Reverting the netcode or separating the high and low ping players is the only way by the physics of the internet the game is ever going to function properly for low latency players
I do not understand what you think they are going to revert to.
Bf has always had issues rationalizing desync.
I'm not buying into the theory that things used to be so great, because I've been having issues the whole time.