Hit Detection

Comments

  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    lizzard wrote: »

    I never had issues with bc2 either!
    Sure a bit lagy hitboxes sometimes. But that was about it.
    So then you had issues. There were plenty of hit reg issues, the knife animation yet no damage was a big one....but plenty of others.

    As much as I loves BC2 nostalgia kicks in and tends to remember all the good things about it and suppress the major issues. We seen that with people comparing games to BF3...and now we see posts about how much better BF4 was.
    lizzard wrote: »
    Recoil behaves strange.
    Fps dips.
    Etc etc.

    We know that the recoil has changed quite a bit since BC2. We have seen little no no recoil, to needing to tap fire, to now accuracy increases in full auto. I wouldn't say it's acting strange...more like we haven't adapted to the new model (myself included).

    Frame drops, yes very unacceptable. Problem I see here is the demand for better graphics yet console really can't support it. Really need to have a second version for the console instead of making everything platform agnostic.
    I played a little the past couple of days and it was so so during the day time hours, the real issues showed up when more than 3 or 4 100ms+ players would join. Funny how I went from being in the top 3 every game to going negative when these players were in the game. Also noticed a player with 600ms shot me I got network icons popping up, only happened when he shot me. No vid, will never post another vid here because of you-know-who.

    Well then I will have to say it didn't happen since you can't provide anidotal evidence that high ping is doing anything. One thing I can say is you are having internet issues since icons won't show up because of someone else's ping...that makes absolutely no sense.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6761 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hey Gentlemen, I've not been following this thread recently so im a little in the dark. What does the new Low Ping Network Latency option do? Something related to lag comp, I'm not sure I want it to compensate for me but thought I'd ask you guys.

    Also, since I've not checked this thread recently, last I remember we had kill trades enabled and lag comp up to 200 ping then both were nerfed. Have we had any major changes to netcode after this?

    The low ping network is an increased interpolation buffer. The buffer stacks multiple updates to smoothen and more accurately interpolate their position on screen. The upside is the target is more accurately represented on screen. The downside is a delay in rendering.

    Only works for clients with 50ms or lower and a stable connection. If your variance is too high it turns off. It also only buffers for players that are inside your HFU hemisphere and out to an unknown distance inside your HFU cone.

    Remember you're not receiving an update about every player in every server update. When you get an update about a player and at what frequency is dependent on their positional distance from you.

    For players out at 200m or more you will only receive an update every 333.333ms (3Hz).

    Here's an overlay of the HFU.

    d58HxWj.jpg

    ghayrqZ.jpg
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hey Gentlemen, I've not been following this thread recently so im a little in the dark. What does the new Low Ping Network Latency option do? Something related to lag comp, I'm not sure I want it to compensate for me but thought I'd ask you guys.

    Also, since I've not checked this thread recently, last I remember we had kill trades enabled and lag comp up to 200 ping then both were nerfed. Have we had any major changes to netcode after this?

    The low ping network is an increased interpolation buffer. The buffer stacks multiple updates to smoothen and more accurately interpolate their position on screen. The upside is the target is more accurately represented on screen. The downside is a delay in rendering.

    Only works for clients with 50ms or lower and a stable connection. If your variance is too high it turns off. It also only buffers for players that are inside your HFU hemisphere and out to an unknown distance inside your HFU cone.

    Remember you're not receiving an update about every player in every server update. When you get an update about a player and at what frequency is dependent on their positional distance from you.

    For players out at 200m or more you will only receive an update every 333.333ms (3Hz).

    Here's an overlay of the HFU.

    d58HxWj.jpg

    ghayrqZ.jpg

    Similar to BF4 though i believe BF4 was just the cone.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6761 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2017
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Hey Gentlemen, I've not been following this thread recently so im a little in the dark. What does the new Low Ping Network Latency option do? Something related to lag comp, I'm not sure I want it to compensate for me but thought I'd ask you guys.

    Also, since I've not checked this thread recently, last I remember we had kill trades enabled and lag comp up to 200 ping then both were nerfed. Have we had any major changes to netcode after this?

    The low ping network is an increased interpolation buffer. The buffer stacks multiple updates to smoothen and more accurately interpolate their position on screen. The upside is the target is more accurately represented on screen. The downside is a delay in rendering.

    Only works for clients with 50ms or lower and a stable connection. If your variance is too high it turns off. It also only buffers for players that are inside your HFU hemisphere and out to an unknown distance inside your HFU cone.

    Remember you're not receiving an update about every player in every server update. When you get an update about a player and at what frequency is dependent on their positional distance from you.

    For players out at 200m or more you will only receive an update every 333.333ms (3Hz).

    Here's an overlay of the HFU.

    d58HxWj.jpg

    ghayrqZ.jpg

    Similar to BF4 though i believe BF4 was just the cone.

    BF4 has the hemisphere and the cone. Though it is vastly different. BF4 has a half hemisphere, forward facing only that extends out to 40m. 40m to infinity is 10Hz. The cone has server tick rate out to 100m then a linear degrade out to 300m. I have zero idea what those degrades are. I do know the 300m mark is 10Hz though.

    BF1 has 2 fully encompassing hemisphere's and a cone with linear degrade as shown above.

    Chris covers BF4's version at the 4:24 mark.






  • BaronVonGoon
    7053 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2017
    Hey Gentlemen, I've not been following this thread recently so im a little in the dark. What does the new Low Ping Network Latency option do? Something related to lag comp, I'm not sure I want it to compensate for me but thought I'd ask you guys.

    Also, since I've not checked this thread recently, last I remember we had kill trades enabled and lag comp up to 200 ping then both were nerfed. Have we had any major changes to netcode after this?

    The low ping network is an increased interpolation buffer. The buffer stacks multiple updates to smoothen and more accurately interpolate their position on screen. The upside is the target is more accurately represented on screen. The downside is a delay in rendering.

    Only works for clients with 50ms or lower and a stable connection. If your variance is too high it turns off. It also only buffers for players that are inside your HFU hemisphere and out to an unknown distance inside your HFU cone.

    Remember you're not receiving an update about every player in every server update. When you get an update about a player and at what frequency is dependent on their positional distance from you.

    For players out at 200m or more you will only receive an update every 333.333ms (3Hz).

    Here's an overlay of the HFU.

    d58HxWj.jpg

    ghayrqZ.jpg

    Very interesting thanks for the explanation, Rev. I'm all for increasing the interpolation buffer.

    Just to clarify, it turns off automatically when my ping variance is too high?
  • Rev0verDrive
    6761 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hey Gentlemen, I've not been following this thread recently so im a little in the dark. What does the new Low Ping Network Latency option do? Something related to lag comp, I'm not sure I want it to compensate for me but thought I'd ask you guys.

    Also, since I've not checked this thread recently, last I remember we had kill trades enabled and lag comp up to 200 ping then both were nerfed. Have we had any major changes to netcode after this?

    The low ping network is an increased interpolation buffer. The buffer stacks multiple updates to smoothen and more accurately interpolate their position on screen. The upside is the target is more accurately represented on screen. The downside is a delay in rendering.

    Only works for clients with 50ms or lower and a stable connection. If your variance is too high it turns off. It also only buffers for players that are inside your HFU hemisphere and out to an unknown distance inside your HFU cone.

    Remember you're not receiving an update about every player in every server update. When you get an update about a player and at what frequency is dependent on their positional distance from you.

    For players out at 200m or more you will only receive an update every 333.333ms (3Hz).

    Here's an overlay of the HFU.

    d58HxWj.jpg

    ghayrqZ.jpg

    Very interesting thanks for the explanation, Rev. I'm all for increasing the interpolation buffer.

    Just to clarify, it turns off automatically when my ping variance is too high?

    Yes, it auto turns off. Not in the options, just during game play.

    Personally I wouldn't use it. There's a possibility of it impacting performance when you are in close quarters (HFU area) with a lot of high latent players. All the extra buffering eats CPU and memory. Plus the downside of late rendering.
  • kniphtee
    244 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Random add-on - while playing tonight I had some good and some bad - asi-asi - and then the game went overly jittery and I realized it was my connection that spiked it all over (wife was downloading vids from the weekend, son was playing some game on roblox and the daughter streamed Barbie movies from youtube) my ping was from 135-350 and it is the first time in a long time I've had an 'issue' on my end spiking things for opponents ... I felt bad wasting people who couldn't lock onto me or hit me because i'm not there anymore and then getting quick kills with the ribeye or the hell-D and really the object is to just move because they cannot lock onto you - it feels wrong...but I finally get to be on the other side ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ the system. Like I typed-it's wrong to cheat this way and mine was innocent so I finished the one round (going 31-7 halfheartedly) and then I had to quit feeling like I was a big cheater.
    My scientific test is complete with results explaining themselves and that ping is (nearly the whole and big issue) problem for hit reg. There are however plenty of debris issues, the shotgun issue (supposedly resolved on CTE), nade radius, fall dmg, etc. etc. other common gameplay issues that need doctored but if we could regionalize or ping limit to less than 100 it would alleviate 90% of this thread.
    Quick thanks to King tolapsium (still have know idea what tolapsium means) and rev over drive for their constant beating to my skull on the serious points of failure on my side for understanding the internet (limitations, etc.) and then the limitations of the systems we play on (pc, xbone, ps4) - thumbs up for knowing way more than I would like to learn about the systems in a twisted way (it makes me feel like explaining to someone how to mix steel, how to use a micrometer and how to form steel - peace and thank you...dlc and more tomorrow - if you're premium that is, g'night.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6761 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @kniphtee You're very welcome.

    Do a check for buffer bloat. DSLreports.com has a speed test that also checks bufferbloat. Maybe your router has QoS options you can work with to limit the issues when the fam is hammering the bandwidth.
  • HillbillyJohn
    509 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »

    I never had issues with bc2 either!
    Sure a bit lagy hitboxes sometimes. But that was about it.
    So then you had issues. There were plenty of hit reg issues, the knife animation yet no damage was a big one....but plenty of others.

    As much as I loves BC2 nostalgia kicks in and tends to remember all the good things about it and suppress the major issues. We seen that with people comparing games to BF3...and now we see posts about how much better BF4 was.
    lizzard wrote: »
    Recoil behaves strange.
    Fps dips.
    Etc etc.

    We know that the recoil has changed quite a bit since BC2. We have seen little no no recoil, to needing to tap fire, to now accuracy increases in full auto. I wouldn't say it's acting strange...more like we haven't adapted to the new model (myself included).

    Frame drops, yes very unacceptable. Problem I see here is the demand for better graphics yet console really can't support it. Really need to have a second version for the console instead of making everything platform agnostic.
    I played a little the past couple of days and it was so so during the day time hours, the real issues showed up when more than 3 or 4 100ms+ players would join. Funny how I went from being in the top 3 every game to going negative when these players were in the game. Also noticed a player with 600ms shot me I got network icons popping up, only happened when he shot me. No vid, will never post another vid here because of you-know-who.

    Well then I will have to say it didn't happen since you can't provide anidotal evidence that high ping is doing anything. One thing I can say is you are having internet issues since icons won't show up because of someone else's ping...that makes absolutely no sense.

    I don't give a flying flip what you think, the evidence has been presented to you time and time again but you insist on blaming the player or their internet. The dev wasn't trying to get ping locked servers for no reason.

    It's sad I can't even browse through the forums without seeing you in multiple threads bashing and antagonizing other members. This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in a game forum and I can't believe it's not against the forum rules.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »

    I never had issues with bc2 either!
    Sure a bit lagy hitboxes sometimes. But that was about it.
    So then you had issues. There were plenty of hit reg issues, the knife animation yet no damage was a big one....but plenty of others.

    As much as I loves BC2 nostalgia kicks in and tends to remember all the good things about it and suppress the major issues. We seen that with people comparing games to BF3...and now we see posts about how much better BF4 was.
    lizzard wrote: »
    Recoil behaves strange.
    Fps dips.
    Etc etc.

    We know that the recoil has changed quite a bit since BC2. We have seen little no no recoil, to needing to tap fire, to now accuracy increases in full auto. I wouldn't say it's acting strange...more like we haven't adapted to the new model (myself included).

    Frame drops, yes very unacceptable. Problem I see here is the demand for better graphics yet console really can't support it. Really need to have a second version for the console instead of making everything platform agnostic.
    I played a little the past couple of days and it was so so during the day time hours, the real issues showed up when more than 3 or 4 100ms+ players would join. Funny how I went from being in the top 3 every game to going negative when these players were in the game. Also noticed a player with 600ms shot me I got network icons popping up, only happened when he shot me. No vid, will never post another vid here because of you-know-who.

    Well then I will have to say it didn't happen since you can't provide anidotal evidence that high ping is doing anything. One thing I can say is you are having internet issues since icons won't show up because of someone else's ping...that makes absolutely no sense.

    I don't give a flying flip what you think, the evidence has been presented to you time and time again but you insist on blaming the player or their internet. The dev wasn't trying to get ping locked servers for no reason.

    It's sad I can't even browse through the forums without seeing you in multiple threads bashing and antagonizing other members. This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in a game forum and I can't believe it's not against the forum rules.

    I am just posting my opinions, like you are.

    Mostly what I have seen is videos with people missing and not noticing that they missed, a aspect of the game that works as intended nut they don't like it, a bug that has nothing to do hit reg or high ping (i.e. tanks not dealing damage), or a true network issues.

    I have stated my opinion on the previous vids and offered some screenshots to back up my opinion. If you want to turn a blind eye to them, that's your choice. Just like it's your choice to believe that all of your bad experience is due to high ping....but that doesn't mean everyone has to take your opinion as fact....especially when you don't want to provide evidence in your gameplay.

    You think ISPs don't have issues? It happens quite frequent....even main cable lines have issues, and in turn they cause problems to the paths that now have to carry the load. Doubt you will click in it but here is a list of issues that have occurred with network lines this year.

    http://subtelforum.com/articles/category/cable-faults/
  • Rev0verDrive
    6761 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Well I re-downloaded CTE last night. Going to try and get some play time in over the next few days on my current ISP setup (250Mbps / 15Mbps). On Friday I'm getting 1Gbps fiber installed (940Mbps / 300+Mbps) and will do comparison testing on that.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Well I re-downloaded CTE last night. Going to try and get some play time in over the next few days on my current ISP setup (250Mbps / 15Mbps). On Friday I'm getting 1Gbps fiber installed (940Mbps / 300+Mbps) and will do comparison testing on that.

    One thing to note on CTE, they are doing some weapon balancing. SLRs will have less spread thus bullets are more going to go where the sights are pointing. I'm almost certain that hit registration complaints will decrease since more shots will actually land on target.

    We will see, many YT vids share that belief, but maybe you can see and verify if you notice a difference. I am certain @mmarkweII And @KingTolapsium will.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6761 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Well I re-downloaded CTE last night. Going to try and get some play time in over the next few days on my current ISP setup (250Mbps / 15Mbps). On Friday I'm getting 1Gbps fiber installed (940Mbps / 300+Mbps) and will do comparison testing on that.

    One thing to note on CTE, they are doing some weapon balancing. SLRs will have less spread thus bullets are more going to go where the sights are pointing. I'm almost certain that hit registration complaints will decrease since more shots will actually land on target.

    We will see, many YT vids share that belief, but maybe you can see and verify if you notice a difference. I am certain @mmarkweII And @KingTolapsium will.

    Yeah I've been keeping up with the update notes. I'm an ADS shooter so I'll be able to tell right out of the gate.

    My main priority is to document the performance of both lines. With the cable line I rarely ever get packet loss or variance over 0.5%. Yet I only play local US East where my ping is either high teens to upper twenties. Now the CTE servers I'm for sure going to see some whack-a-doo crazy. My latency will/should be in the 130+ area with maybe 2-3% loss.

    I typically don't see a whole lotta wtf moments until there are a few high latent players in my hfu. Stable high pings aren't so much of an issue, they're consistent and I understand what's happening and can somewhat counter it. The ones that have high variance cause me the most problems.

  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Well I re-downloaded CTE last night. Going to try and get some play time in over the next few days on my current ISP setup (250Mbps / 15Mbps). On Friday I'm getting 1Gbps fiber installed (940Mbps / 300+Mbps) and will do comparison testing on that.

    One thing to note on CTE, they are doing some weapon balancing. SLRs will have less spread thus bullets are more going to go where the sights are pointing. I'm almost certain that hit registration complaints will decrease since more shots will actually land on target.

    We will see, many YT vids share that belief, but maybe you can see and verify if you notice a difference. I am certain @mmarkweII And @KingTolapsium will.

    I'm sure it'll be noticeable, but I'm a but frustrated that spread is still operating with no lateral bias. That's a horrible design decision.

    Automatic fire is not going to feel good until this changes.

    I'm worried these changes will go live before the aim assist fixes do, if so, it'll ruin any skilled shooting in the game.
  • UrinDenialP
    144 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    kniphtee wrote: »
    In the recent CTE weapon patch it seems DICE has corrected some of the erratic hits and non-hits when using shotguns so they are more predictable - have not tried it yet but it is on my to do list.
    As far as hit reg to other forms of gunplay on the vanilla side, it all comes down to the high pingers in the server since this seems to be the culprit for ruining the gameplay - as far as I can tell and it is not from just the one high ping player and the interaction with that player - it bogs down the whole server and makes gameplay guess-play.
    Jumped on Friday - the first game in was lousy lag as I just jumped in and that seems to happen, the next two games there was only two players whose ping hung around 80-90 and the gameplay was - excuse the word - wonderful...then the wheels came off on the last map (that I played) as plenty of players out and plenty of players in and the server had 9 players over 150 ping and several fluctuated up to 999 and some others that hung around 400 - - - the game was a joke and I was using the ribeye - more bullets to spray and not as cheap as the automatico.
    This game play is what leaves the nasty taste which is why I leave the controller and game off for several days.

    of course that wont help.
    if someone has high ping they are also likely to have variable high ping.

    it will mess it up for everyone because the lag comp is continually changing.

    if the server could guess a few milliseconds before what the variable ping will go to then it would sort out the issue....no chance.

    only way is to have servers in more locations strategically placed to avoid busy internet lanes.
    plus give better reporting on servers before we enter.
    that way high pingers wouldnt have to connect to servers far away.

    this is assuming you havent got variable ping.

    my old connection used to vary 5-10ms.
    my new one varies 1ms!!!
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2017
    kniphtee wrote: »
    In the recent CTE weapon patch it seems DICE has corrected some of the erratic hits and non-hits when using shotguns so they are more predictable - have not tried it yet but it is on my to do list.
    As far as hit reg to other forms of gunplay on the vanilla side, it all comes down to the high pingers in the server since this seems to be the culprit for ruining the gameplay - as far as I can tell and it is not from just the one high ping player and the interaction with that player - it bogs down the whole server and makes gameplay guess-play.
    Jumped on Friday - the first game in was lousy lag as I just jumped in and that seems to happen, the next two games there was only two players whose ping hung around 80-90 and the gameplay was - excuse the word - wonderful...then the wheels came off on the last map (that I played) as plenty of players out and plenty of players in and the server had 9 players over 150 ping and several fluctuated up to 999 and some others that hung around 400 - - - the game was a joke and I was using the ribeye - more bullets to spray and not as cheap as the automatico.
    This game play is what leaves the nasty taste which is why I leave the controller and game off for several days.

    of course that wont help.
    if someone has high ping they are also likely to have variable high ping.

    it will mess it up for everyone because the lag comp is continually changing.

    if the server could guess a few milliseconds before what the variable ping will go to then it would sort out the issue....no chance.

    only way is to have servers in more locations strategically placed to avoid busy internet lanes.
    plus give better reporting on servers before we enter.
    that way high pingers wouldnt have to connect to servers far away.

    this is assuming you havent got variable ping.

    my old connection used to vary 5-10ms.
    my new one varies 1ms!!!

    You can have high ping and be very stable, for example trans oceanic paths have a good chance of being more stable since they have less hops and use lines that don't carry much data (espically around peak times). This actually gives them a more stable connection than in region.

    Not saying it's everyone.
    Post edited by VBALL_MVP on
  • FireteamRED
    112 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Experienced something very usual last night. Invisible guy mows down 2-3 of us .

    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/HomerJSimpson01/video/36035906

  • HillbillyJohn
    509 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Now there are even more bullet sponges than before the patch, how do you do it Dice?
  • XXxx_ABH_xxXX
    573 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Now there are even more bullet sponges than before the patch, how do you do it Dice?

    It is becoming an art. I find tons of hit reg problems now after the patch. The game feels inconsistent.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6761 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Been playing off and on all day. Not one single wtf moment. Hitreg has felt consistent with zero hiccups.

    mid 20's ping on east coast server....PC.
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