Hit Detection

Comments

  • xBigOrangeHeadx
    395 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    diagoro wrote: »
    I can see the hit registration issues in vehicles. I'll be battling a heavy in another, 3rd person view. I see shots that fly past and hit the ground, than get the his sound and full damage. Happens enough that I know it wasn't fire from another source.

    Yep, see this a lot. Typically if the tank is reversing down a hill to avoid the shot, the round will still connect even though it clearly flies over your head.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    BanyanTree wrote: »
    diagoro wrote: »
    I can see the hit registration issues in vehicles. I'll be battling a heavy in another, 3rd person view. I see shots that fly past and hit the ground, than get the his sound and full damage. Happens enough that I know it wasn't fire from another source.

    Yep, see this a lot. Typically if the tank is reversing down a hill to avoid the shot, the round will still connect even though it clearly flies over your head.

    Sounds like a similar issue as on BF4 where they needed dual FHTs to match up hit boxes to jets.
  • Mosvalve
    40 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited January 2017
    *profanity*
  • FlopTrain
    506 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited January 2017
    @mischkag There is no way you can predict or force greatly varying connections to compensate, without there being negative gameplay aspects occur for the players.

    Whether you want to call it lag, degrading server performance, or whatever is causing it,..the fact remains, the gameplay is poorly affected when the netcode Dice has developed is being used to do this.

    Thanks again for your replies.
    Post edited by FlopTrain on
  • Schmo13
    106 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Mosvalve wrote: »
    @Schmo13 US EAST 159.153.92.28

    Thanks. I managed to get my network setup before I saw that and was able to pull this,

    BF1USEastServerTraceXBL1-31-17-0957_zpsngw92d2b.png

    Both tests were the same regarding ping, jitter, PL
  • denjoga
    607 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited January 2017
    Well, as with the previous two titles, the performance of this game is on a rapid downward slide.
    Things that never occurred in the first two months of the game's release are becoming more and more commonplace.
    Bullets that are clearly and absolutely hitting their targets on my screen not generating any hit markers, my character now regularly gets stuck trying to vault obstacles that never posed problems before (does the vault animation but gets stuck in place) and just generally weird, inexplicable "WTF" moments rapidly increasing in frequency.

    I turn on my net performance graph and everything looks normal on my end, except for SrvTick averaging 15-20ms, which previous user posts claimed was in the "danger zone" (my words but their sentiment) but @mischkag has now refuted: "For consoels at 30 Hz this [SrvTick] should not matter whatsoever as long as you stay below 33ms."

    Haven't seen any evidence of widespread oor in the servers I've been playing in either which, despite the controversy, WAS a corollary to poor "netcode" performance in BFs 3 & 4.

    3 titles in a row (no BFH for me) where the "netcode"* performance started out acceptable and then steadily degraded over time, eventually becoming not only unacceptable, but unplayable. (BF1 hasn't reached "unplayable" yet, but it's getting there...)

    It's almost like DICE's netcode foundation contains some kind of self-destruct code that automatically begins to degrade as time passes.


    *NB: I am using "netcode" as a catchall phrase to describe how accurately my input to the game and what I see on my screen correlates with what the game ultimately says happens, along with glitchy experiences like rubber banding, teleporting, getting stuck on minor obstacles in the environment, etc.
    I apologize if my use of the term is technically incorrect, but I'm generally substituting it when I'm inclined to say "server performance" because I really have no idea if the poor performance I'm seeing is about the server, my client, or some other player's client.
    I welcome any suggestions for more technically correct descriptors.

    I'm on PS4.
    My network performance graph, when I look at it, tends to average:
    SrvTick - 12-18
    Latency - 10-30
    Netw Vrtn - 1-2
    Pkt Loss - 0% (never seen it at any other value)
    Extr Offset - iirc around 30-35, but I'm not as sure about this one.
    Down Str - again, not so sure about this one, but I think it's at least in the triple digits
    Recv Rate - Never noticed, tbh.

    Next time I play, I'll pay closer attention to the last 3, if it's relevant.
  • Schmo13
    106 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    I am sure i forget a lot to answer here as there were so many comments. First of all we did not fix a console cheat, we are talking PC when talking cheats. Then if you feel like CTE is a bad idea, you dont need to join. It is a way for us to engage with you, test out certain things, get your valuable feedback and determine how to move forward or improve something before it goes live. CTE is live now and early next week it will feature most of the netcode improvements(PC only right now, console to come). I am all for ping caps as stated many times, but you have to believe me that this takes an effort across multiple EA studios to get it implemented and in effect. When somebody says server goes bad when server time goes beyond 16ms, i assumed you are talking PC at 60Hz. For consoels at 30 Hz this should not matter whatsoever as long as you stay below 33ms. Even occasional spikes can be handled. There is some client side bug which resulted in high lags which makes it hard to hit anybody. This should be fixed and will likely be featured on CTE next week. Ping jitter is indeed a big issue. We implemented lots of stuff to cope with this. Of course, the higher the latency, the higher the average jitter can be. When I say that the server performance is not affected by packet loss or high ping, than i mean it. There is no such thing as recalculation where a player with 1000ms ping is. The server expects inputs from a player, if you fail to send for an extended period of time, it will be replaced by null inputs. So the entire simulation is more or less stable in its processing time. We clamped these values down so high pingers will feel the effect of a high jitter quite a bit more. I think a good foundation of netcode which handles various jitter/loss/ping properly is essential. Of course, if we finally get ping caps working, this would provide the gameplay you ask for. I know this all sounds like corporate bla bla, but the extend of your poor experience with OOR players is not as widely acknowledged as you hope for. I raised the issue and hope we get to where we all want to get to. Implementing the ping in the scoreboard is hopefully coming, believe it or not, there were higher prioritized items to take care of. Sorry about that.

    I am on console, literally have bizarre network issues everytime I see the server tick hit above 25ms. Causation? Correlation? I have no idea, I am merely providing to you the experience that I have, with pc at 60hz with 16ms max ticks, I assume that a much larger focus was given to network consistency within the 16ms margin found on pc.

    I am bitter, my platform has always been a crippled version of the glorious pc build, it's not about graphics (those have always been nice), it's about smooth consistent gameplay. (Aimbot certainly hasn't helped, let me guess, our discontent with the rotational aim assist is relatively unknown as well? :disappointed: )

    A "wrong" installation with my pro was causing significantly more pop in than should be expected, this was reflected significantly in loading in players (what I assumed to be related to the high frequency bubble, pretty hard to tell from the clientside). After a full reinstalation, it seems my client is painting a more accurate picture. I'm not even sure this installation issue is known, even though it can negatively impact the experience quite drastically. Network bug? client error? we have no assets to differentiate these errors on our end, that's entirely on those identifying and addressing the issues.

    It is honestly disappointing to hear the issues with high ping were relatively unknown, these are noticeable with seemingly disproportionate regularity on console, there are times were the game feels unfair and unplayable, and thats all with a great connection mind you.

    If high ping, and packetloss, are highly linked to network jitter, I'm not surprised by the discontent with OOR and poor connections in region. It's easy to see why this would get confused regularly.

    Being unable to register hits for over half around, then magically having everything connect, makes me think there was a server issue, saying it feels like I am in the wrong part of the calculation is absolutely ONLY MY ASSUMPTION. I would expect the developers to read between the lines of my perceived experience as there is infinitely more familiarity with the server code on your end.

    This doesn't sound like corporate "blah blah", I hear you loud and clear, and it only strengthens my opinion of DICE. There are some incredibly passionate and talented developers that are focused on improved the acknowledged issues, unfortunately focusing on one thing for a long time seems to create blinders. That's not an insult on any party mind you. It's frustrating for players who see issues in the areas the team seems to ignore. Its obviously not the teams intention to ignore things that drive players crazy, but that is how it seems from this side of the development curtain.

    I appreciate the focus on this issue, I really hope this is just the beginning of the netcode work to be done with the CTE. If you need feedback to be delivered in a different way, I'm on board to assist, but I'm not going to cull my activity in trying to dispell the bugs and issues that are intruding on my multi-player experience. Having someone working on the netcode directly communicating with those who see issues, is one of the better improvements with this battlefield iteration, thanks for talking.

    Very well said. Like I mentioned before, having a dev in the forums directly responding to questions and concerns is unusual, however much appreciated.
  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    I am sure i forget a lot to answer here as there were so many comments. First of all we did not fix a console cheat, we are talking PC when talking cheats. Then if you feel like CTE is a bad idea, you dont need to join. It is a way for us to engage with you, test out certain things, get your valuable feedback and determine how to move forward or improve something before it goes live. CTE is live now and early next week it will feature most of the netcode improvements(PC only right now, console to come). I am all for ping caps as stated many times, but you have to believe me that this takes an effort across multiple EA studios to get it implemented and in effect. When somebody says server goes bad when server time goes beyond 16ms, i assumed you are talking PC at 60Hz. For consoels at 30 Hz this should not matter whatsoever as long as you stay below 33ms. Even occasional spikes can be handled. There is some client side bug which resulted in high lags which makes it hard to hit anybody. This should be fixed and will likely be featured on CTE next week. Ping jitter is indeed a big issue. We implemented lots of stuff to cope with this. Of course, the higher the latency, the higher the average jitter can be. When I say that the server performance is not affected by packet loss or high ping, than i mean it. There is no such thing as recalculation where a player with 1000ms ping is. The server expects inputs from a player, if you fail to send for an extended period of time, it will be replaced by null inputs. So the entire simulation is more or less stable in its processing time. We clamped these values down so high pingers will feel the effect of a high jitter quite a bit more. I think a good foundation of netcode which handles various jitter/loss/ping properly is essential. Of course, if we finally get ping caps working, this would provide the gameplay you ask for. I know this all sounds like corporate bla bla, but the extend of your poor experience with OOR players is not as widely acknowledged as you hope for. I raised the issue and hope we get to where we all want to get to. Implementing the ping in the scoreboard is hopefully coming, believe it or not, there were higher prioritized items to take care of. Sorry about that.

    I am on console, literally have bizarre network issues everytime I see the server tick hit above 25ms. Causation? Correlation? I have no idea, I am merely providing to you the experience that I have, with pc at 60hz with 16ms max ticks, I assume that a much larger focus was given to network consistency within the 16ms margin found on pc.

    I am bitter, my platform has always been a crippled version of the glorious pc build, it's not about graphics (those have always been nice), it's about smooth consistent gameplay. (Aimbot certainly hasn't helped, let me guess, our discontent with the rotational aim assist is relatively unknown as well? :disappointed: )

    A "wrong" installation with my pro was causing significantly more pop in than should be expected, this was reflected significantly in loading in players (what I assumed to be related to the high frequency bubble, pretty hard to tell from the clientside). After a full reinstalation, it seems my client is painting a more accurate picture. I'm not even sure this installation issue is known, even though it can negatively impact the experience quite drastically. Network bug? client error? we have no assets to differentiate these errors on our end, that's entirely on those identifying and addressing the issues.

    It is honestly disappointing to hear the issues with high ping were relatively unknown, these are noticeable with seemingly disproportionate regularity on console, there are times were the game feels unfair and unplayable, and thats all with a great connection mind you.

    If high ping, and packetloss, are highly linked to network jitter, I'm not surprised by the discontent with OOR and poor connections in region. It's easy to see why this would get confused regularly.

    Being unable to register hits for over half around, then magically having everything connect, makes me think there was a server issue, saying it feels like I am in the wrong part of the calculation is absolutely ONLY MY ASSUMPTION. I would expect the developers to read between the lines of my perceived experience as there is infinitely more familiarity with the server code on your end.

    This doesn't sound like corporate "blah blah", I hear you loud and clear, and it only strengthens my opinion of DICE. There are some incredibly passionate and talented developers that are focused on improved the acknowledged issues, unfortunately focusing on one thing for a long time seems to create blinders. That's not an insult on any party mind you. It's frustrating for players who see issues in the areas the team seems to ignore. Its obviously not the teams intention to ignore things that drive players crazy, but that is how it seems from this side of the development curtain.

    I appreciate the focus on this issue, I really hope this is just the beginning of the netcode work to be done with the CTE. If you need feedback to be delivered in a different way, I'm on board to assist, but I'm not going to cull my activity in trying to dispell the bugs and issues that are intruding on my multi-player experience. Having someone working on the netcode directly communicating with those who see issues, is one of the better improvements with this battlefield iteration, thanks for talking.

    Well written!

    I also wonder about the SrvTick!?
    What is causing the issues?
    As @mischkag said, its well inside of the limits.

    Is it something with the ps4 not being able to handle the info fast enough?

    Cuss i swear, 9 of 10 times when SrvTick goes above 18-25ms the gameplay starts to be infuriating! (note here. The one's I play with that use a slower pace and a low sensitivity. Seems less affected)

    As I mentioned before. I have kept an eye on the SrvTick after reading posts about it, since the beginning of bf1.

    It was almost nerver any issue in the beta!
    But now it gets worse and worse the older the game becomes.

    Again thanks for your input on this forum.

    Side note.
    Limiting cte to premium owner's is not good!
    There is many gamers that have been true to battlefield since bc1 on console.
    That have given feedback on so many betas and final builds.
    But simply after the bf4 fiasco, refuses to pay for premium!
    And especially now when the issues in bf1 gets worse and worse..

    Cte should be given to battlefield veteran's. The guys that have suported the franchise, game after game!

    Cte should not be a fun sandbox daycare, for newbies..
    It should be a testing environment for players that wants the game to perform at its best!

  • SupremeEpidemic
    412 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member

    mischkag wrote: »
    Hey guys, many thanks for the respectful and very detailed breakdown of the issues. The CTE for console will come. We got to get the process right for PC and then run thru all the Cert stuff. Yes it should have been there right from the Get-Go. BF4 CTE was introduced by Dice LA and a few months back, this very studio was given the opportunity to drive the BF1 live service again. I think we came from a dark place in terms of netcode when BF4 was launched and came a long way. I totally agree that we should not have any of the issues you describe. Quite frankly i optimized the entire netcode on this game for low ping environments for the fastest turn around of information possible. While i was also making sure any jitter is handled, i created an environment where high ping is working all too well. I am pushing hard now to make up for this where i want high ping players or high jittering/packet loss players being very smooth on low ping clients making it normal or easy to aim at and kill. I personally hope that this is the last BF game where we have these issues and that ping caps become a standard for fps titles where fast netcode matters. Even if you decide to opt out of playing BF1 now because it is unacceptable, make sure you come back when the Spring Patch is out and give it another chance (although some fixes will be in the upcoming patch, some in the first expansion pack). Thank you!

    You are suppose to be working on these issues not posting ;) Just Kidding! Thanks for the timely responses, and continued support. Hope to see some improvements in performance for our community soon.
  • stuwooster
    279 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Hey guys, many thanks for the respectful and very detailed breakdown of the issues. The CTE for console will come. We got to get the process right for PC and then run thru all the Cert stuff. Yes it should have been there right from the Get-Go. BF4 CTE was introduced by Dice LA and a few months back, this very studio was given the opportunity to drive the BF1 live service again. I think we came from a dark place in terms of netcode when BF4 was launched and came a long way. I totally agree that we should not have any of the issues you describe. Quite frankly i optimized the entire netcode on this game for low ping environments for the fastest turn around of information possible. While i was also making sure any jitter is handled, i created an environment where high ping is working all too well. I am pushing hard now to make up for this where i want high ping players or high jittering/packet loss players being very smooth on low ping clients making it normal or easy to aim at and kill. I personally hope that this is the last BF game where we have these issues and that ping caps become a standard for fps titles where fast netcode matters. Even if you decide to opt out of playing BF1 now because it is unacceptable, make sure you come back when the Spring Patch is out and give it another chance (although some fixes will be in the upcoming patch, some in the first expansion pack). Thank you!

    This is great news, and with regards to ping restrictions becoming the norm i think it only takes a couple of major studios to start to push that before it becomes generally accepted, as mentioned before, back in the day you used to accept the fact that high ping would be a non smooth experience in online games and deal with it, im thinking back to the days of HPB and LPB in the late 90's
  • Schmo13
    106 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Anyone wanting to run traces to the servers can find the IP addresses and locations in the seperate thread I started.
  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Schmo13 wrote: »
    Anyone wanting to run traces to the servers can find the IP addresses and locations in the seperate thread I started.

    Can they be run from the ps4?
    Im hardwired directly to the fiber output. So I'm bypassing the router on the ps4, to eliminate some stuff..

    That's why I would need to run the tests from the ps4..
  • Schmo13
    106 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    Schmo13 wrote: »
    Anyone wanting to run traces to the servers can find the IP addresses and locations in the seperate thread I started.

    Can they be run from the ps4?
    Im hardwired directly to the fiber output. So I'm bypassing the router on the ps4, to eliminate some stuff..

    That's why I would need to run the tests from the ps4..

    You need windows Os. There maybe others but unlikely anything for console. You could still run it from PC, if you see something local based issue wise then make provisions to run it directly.
  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Schmo13 wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    Schmo13 wrote: »
    Anyone wanting to run traces to the servers can find the IP addresses and locations in the seperate thread I started.

    Can they be run from the ps4?
    Im hardwired directly to the fiber output. So I'm bypassing the router on the ps4, to eliminate some stuff..

    That's why I would need to run the tests from the ps4..

    You need windows Os. There maybe others but unlikely anything for console. You could still run it from PC, if you see something local based issue wise then make provisions to run it directly.

    Only Linux pc..
  • Schmo13
    106 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »

    Only Linux pc..

    Looks like there's a couple traceroute programs for linux. Just google for it.
  • RichardPye843
    206 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I swear I keep getting more and more frustrated with this game! The hit detection and bugs absolutely RUIN my experience. Especially the bug where the repair function on the tank is missing. The quick repair is there but you cant do the long repair. It seems more and more that I play the more it makes me not want to. I end up rage quiting because you dont ever figure out the bug is there until you actually need the repair function. It ALWAYS happens on Monte Grappa. It has happened to me at least 5 or 6 times on that map. ALWAYS when I start the round with the tank.
    Also my favorite is to sit there and dump rounds into someone, have them turn around, and one bullet kill you. That is always a gem! Another is when the spotting will not spot at all. You can pointing right at an enemy just a few meters away ,hit the spot button, and nothing happens. So you end up spaming the button and it leaves you wondering if you got the penalty for spamming the button. There needs to be an audio cue like in BF4.
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer DICE
    Btw the way, CTE will be featured on both consoles this time in the near future. Very soon the first expansion maps will be featured on PC CTE which will include the bulk load of netcode and hit detection improvements I have worked on.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I swear I keep getting more and more frustrated with this game! The hit detection and bugs absolutely RUIN my experience. Especially the bug where the repair function on the tank is missing. The quick repair is there but you cant do the long repair. It seems more and more that I play the more it makes me not want to. I end up rage quiting because you dont ever figure out the bug is there until you actually need the repair function. It ALWAYS happens on Monte Grappa. It has happened to me at least 5 or 6 times on that map. ALWAYS when I start the round with the tank.
    Also my favorite is to sit there and dump rounds into someone, have them turn around, and one bullet kill you. That is always a gem! Another is when the spotting will not spot at all. You can pointing right at an enemy just a few meters away ,hit the spot button, and nothing happens. So you end up spaming the button and it leaves you wondering if you got the penalty for spamming the button. There needs to be an audio cue like in BF4.

    You only get the long repair if you spawn in as a vehicle class. If you enter a abandoned vehicle say as a scout, you don't get that feature. You said it happens when you start a round as a tank, did you spawn in as the driver or in one of the other spots? Or did you spawn in and walk to a tank?
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