Solving the camper problem

Comments

  • Bossman1794
    1073 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    If you have a shrinking spawn that pushes you up further towards the attackers you are basically being pushed into a meat grinder if you are already having that much difficulty in moving forward.

    Turning the game-mode into a spawn camping slaughter fest is going to make it even worse.
  • disposalist
    8684 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited March 2017
    The rules of Golf have been the same for generations and they are looking at changing those because the game has become boring. Motor racing has done the same and so have many other sports and hobbies over the decades. Is BF special in some way such that it should be inviolate?

    Adding mechanics to stop objectives-based game modes being ruined when too many people ignore the objectives isn't some kind of attempt to crush your freedom.

    DICE has developed mechanics to encourage PTFO. They don't work. They could look at developing mechanics to discourage tactics that are the clear opposite of PTFO.

    You can't just move to another server, even if that were acceptable. It happens in a large proportion if not the majority of Rush, Operations and now Frontlines games.

    I loved Rush in BF4 - was my favourite game mode, though was occasionally spoiled by campers, it was rare. Rush in BF1 is so often messed up by campers on one team or both I just don't bother playing it. Operations and Frontlines are awesome, but even more sensitive to lack of PTFO. I don't play Ops either and am giving up on Frontlines now.

    The OPs idea might sound extreme, but there *is* a problem and at least he's making suggestions to fix it not just claiming everything is fine. You'd think from some people's comments he were suggesting the installation of a fascist government and jailing of non-conformists.

    Maybe alongside his suggestions they should add a FREE-FOR-ALL game mode. TDM is apparently not enough. Actually I know why campers want Rush, Ops and Frontlines to stay the same: objectives game modes make for nice clusters of suckers for them to camp-kill...
  • nefariouscheat
    557 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    There is no such thing as a "camper problem". Let people play the game as they want, not as you want them to play. You can complain all you want, but at the end NONE is forced to play the game as it maybe should be. Also killing campers is easy... Since this is battlefield, you can blow them up.

    I hate campers too. The same as I hate this endless crying about how people should play the game. AGAIN, it's not up to you.
  • Thunderbolt19996
    603 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    The installation of a dictatorial government is the only solution tho.Other solutions are flawed:

    Limit on classes:bad concept,limiting use of are certain weapon will cause harm to those that use it while ptfoing.

    Reduction of the space/increase of out of bounds:could work with a timer,but cuts off the whole defensive/support playstile(the bone of the camper problem)

    Artillery barrage when too many sit far back:define me "too many".For you it may be 3,for me 5,for someone 0.No one is right when it come to subjective judgements,only 0 is the wrong answer because a frontline needs a backline by default.

    Lock objective mode if X flags weren't captured:refer to the defensive playstile.May work if it includes also defended flags.

    It's a never ending problem,not only in bf,but in any fps.Only in R6 seems tolerated because it's "tactical".Limit things,and you'll hurt those that ptfo too.Let things like now and we are bounded to have some frustrating matches.
  • Sentinelxm1994
    20 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    the people who say there's "no such thing as a camper problem" are the exact sort of people who have one half **** proportionate for the amount of camper problems there are in this game.
  • GerocK-
    642 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited March 2017
    "People are not playng like I want,so they suck".Again those threads?You are not the admin of the server in a public conquest.here you have to respect every player,from the assault running on the flag to the scout at 500 m from the objective.If you want to make your rules,rent a server and disable bolt action rifles since you like so much to avoid skill based fights.But in a public server,I'm my own commander,and no one can dictate how I have to play the game.

    The servers with Procon and plugins were publics lol. On bf4 : servers with snipers limit or other limit weapons, or without limit but servers for all the players and no problem and the servers were publics...omg.
    When we read your anwsers we understand why the conquest mode is ruined in bf1, yea of course.....

    Matter of opinion I guess. I think Conquest in Battlefield 1 is excellent.
    I hated servers in BF4 that limited snipers or enforced other restrictions and I never played on them, just like I will never play Battlefield 1 on a server that restricts me in any way.
  • eSyn-Crispy
    10 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    the difference is though at least the sh** medics and the sh** supports actually move up and try to take the objective though. snipers don't effectively do squat when it comes to being attackers. snipers are a purely defensive instrument unless it's an actually good scout who knows how to move up with the squad so that if the squad gets pinned down by, say, another sniper or a gunner, and it's out of range of the rifles or gunners in the squad, the sniper can take them out.

    2 things: Monte Grappa and Flares

  • trip1ex
    4979 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 2017
    Maybe alongside his suggestions they should add a FREE-FOR-ALL game mode. TDM is apparently not enough. Actually I know why campers want Rush, Ops and Frontlines to stay the same: objectives game modes make for nice clusters of suckers for them to camp-kill...


    Yep. Conquest is the same way too. Most players play every mode the same. Sit there and shoot at enemies. The only time they move up is if they haven't heard a shot for an hour.



  • trip1ex
    4979 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 2017
    Don't know if there is a way to force random strangers to actually be aware and play the objective.

    But least they could give us tools to make it easier to identify those players who like to play the game to help the team try to win.

    And then we could make more bf friends and play on servers where those types hang out.
  • MsieurLeodagan
    369 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 2017
    GerocK : on bf4, les best servers Conquest are with sniper limits, the guys play flags.



    Thunderbolt19996 : I know Procon only feature pc, you didn't know that, need to wake up...... Bf3 Procon and no problem? Battlefield was good for servers of the community, but now game console and price of the servers also lol.
    I like teamplay so I like not scout.

  • lh20122012
    1830 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Is this really a problem though? I've never felt I lost a game over hill humpers. At least not one we weren't already losing.

    Sure there's always a few on each team, but honestly I don't see a disproportionate amount until the team gets too demoralized to even leave base.
  • Thunderbolt19996
    603 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    GerocK : on bf4, les best servers Conquest are with sniper limits, the guys play flags.



    Thunderbolt19996 : I know Procon only feature pc, you didn't know that, need to wake up...... Bf3 Procon and no problem? Battlefield was good for servers of the community, but now game console and price of the servers also lol.
    I like teamplay so I like not scout.

    Sorry for you then.If you can't stand the freedom allowed to the player,go back to your precious bf4 with restrictions.
  • MsieurLeodagan
    369 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    But what freedom lol??? You do not want to understand. Battlefield was born on pc and since the beginning servers of community (create servers with many parameters and for players choice better servers for their gameplay). And you say battlefield 1 : freedom for players, serioulsy lol?? But I understand because when we play on console we knows only restrcition.

  • Thunderbolt19996
    603 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I don't care where it was born,nor what the PC community has available.What I know is that the majority of the playerbase is on console,with ps4 having double the players of PC.And the majority do not want limits,because everyone has a right to play with the playstile and weapon that he wants.If you are the admin of my server,then you can rule.Set the bolt actions off and have fun.If you're not server admin bad luck then,you are no one to me and I'm no one to you.
  • disposalist
    8684 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    I don't care where it was born,nor what the PC community has available.What I know is that the majority of the playerbase is on console,with ps4 having double the players of PC.And the majority do not want limits,because everyone has a right to play with the playstile and weapon that he wants.If you are the admin of my server,then you can rule.Set the bolt actions off and have fun.If you're not server admin bad luck then,you are no one to me and I'm no one to you.
    It's not to do with any particular class or weapon, though taking the tank then sitting back for easy safe kills can completely ruin a game since the tanks are often such a pivotal resource. Snipers are easy to criticise, because too many messes up any game mode, but in Frontlines, for example, ALL the team has to push onto the objective or the game becomes a to-and-fro between two flags as both team fails to advance. Campers/Defenders take flag then campers/defenders take flag then, guess what, campers/defenders take flag, repeat for 3 hours until the most bored team loses.

    All these "I'll play the game how I like" people are just being willfully ignorant. In an objectives based game mode (which is pretty much everything but TDM) if a significant proportion of the team decide to prioritise their KD over the actual objectives the game becomes boring and pointless for everyone else.

    Snipers and tanks are a particular problem, but I'm seeing all classes hanging back from objectives and just watching their team fail. To say there is no problem is just ridiculous. What's the point in the game modes? May as well just have TDM. Not even Team Death Match. Just Deathmatch.
  • Thunderbolt19996
    603 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Honestly I've yet to see those 3 hour matches.I've had my fair share of snipers and tank farmers,but my longest frontline match was of 90 mins.Even in the worst cases,a squad is always pushing.Stay with them,and enjoy the battle.

    But let's play devil's advocate for a moment.I dislike farmers and k/d **** like everyone else,my 2 cent on the question is that if you have >1 k/d while ptfoing you're gold.With this said:they can answer that,after all,they're playng the objective.After all,2-3 assaults are enough to cap the zone,while they stop the enemy from entering It.Why they should fight in cqb with a bolt action,against smgs made for cqb fights?

    That's the key of the problem.I hate farmers,but I hate more people that try to set up rules for others.If 10 players want to snipe at 500m from the flag,who are you to condamn them?
  • THAGURT
    418 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    The rules of Golf have been the same for generations and they are looking at changing those because the game has become boring. Motor racing has done the same and so have many other sports and hobbies over the decades. Is BF special in some way such that it should be inviolate?

    Adding mechanics to stop objectives-based game modes being ruined when too many people ignore the objectives isn't some kind of attempt to crush your freedom.

    DICE has developed mechanics to encourage PTFO. They don't work. They could look at developing mechanics to discourage tactics that are the clear opposite of PTFO.

    You can't just move to another server, even if that were acceptable. It happens in a large proportion if not the majority of Rush, Operations and now Frontlines games.

    I loved Rush in BF4 - was my favourite game mode, though was occasionally spoiled by campers, it was rare. Rush in BF1 is so often messed up by campers on one team or both I just don't bother playing it. Operations and Frontlines are awesome, but even more sensitive to lack of PTFO. I don't play Ops either and am giving up on Frontlines now.

    The OPs idea might sound extreme, but there *is* a problem and at least he's making suggestions to fix it not just claiming everything is fine. You'd think from some people's comments he were suggesting the installation of a fascist government and jailing of non-conformists.

    Maybe alongside his suggestions they should add a FREE-FOR-ALL game mode. TDM is apparently not enough. Actually I know why campers want Rush, Ops and Frontlines to stay the same: objectives game modes make for nice clusters of suckers for them to camp-kill...

    Golf's rule changes have nothing to do with being boring it has to do with needing to take a course on the rules to even know how to play one hole without being penalized. When the guys that are professionals at the sport dont know most of the rules something is wrong...

    As far as the rules of BF goes, people know they get more points for standing on the objective, people know their team has a better chance of winning when they play the objective. BF doesnt force you to play in a way that best helps your team. It rewards you for doing so. I have no problem with people standing just outside of objectives killing people because on most occasions thats me. They are why you get points for being on the objective, because its dangerous. That being said I wouldnt be opposed in operations if there was a creeping line for the people that take two steps and lay down. Thats not saying the cant go to the far left or right and snipe but at least in doing that they are a spawn point and another target for the defenders to have to focus.
  • GerocK-
    642 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    LaDenree83 wrote: »
    GerocK : on bf4, les best servers Conquest are with sniper limits, the guys play flags.

    I disagree. I hated servers with sniper limits. even when I didn't want to play Recon/Scout myself.
    It's naive to think that a useless sniper will suddenly play the objective properly when he holds a different weapon.
    -
    But the main problem is: why should people who know how to play sniper properly be restricted to choose the sniper, just because other people have ruined it for them? That's something I will never get behind and the reason I will never play on a server that restricts me in any way.

  • jcupps12
    70 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited March 2017
    LaDenree83 wrote: »
    Or you could just quit and find another server. Or better yet, rent one and impose your own rules there.

    People usually don't respond well to a game telling them exactly how to play it. Besides, this sounds like an optimal way to make farming kills easier for a far superior defending team because it's either "rush blindly and get shot immediately" or "take your time and get killed by being out of bounds."

    The problem still lies in the matchmaking system being ****. If it worked, campers wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue as they are now. Coming up with overly complex methods of punishment for quitters/campers/team switchers/people using a gun or a gadget not approved by Cpt. Neckbeard on the internet or whatever is just treating the symptoms of an issue within one of the game's core mechanics.

    In BF1 server : no snipers limit.... I not understant why DICE ruin conquest mode in bf1

    DICE isn't ruining BF1 the COD players who came to BF! that don't know how to play are ruining BF1. They don't take the time to learn gadgets and just want to get kills. shotgun corner campers are the worst but it still isn't ruining the game for me personally.
  • Sentinelxm1994
    20 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    back on Star Wars Battlefront 2 they had classes you had to unlock using points from kills. Like the Bothnan spy, the wookie warrior, the jump trooper, clone commander, magnaguard, droideka, shadow trooper, and imperial officer. IF you got your kills using, say, the anti tanker engineer or rifleman you got to unlock these classes in the match. Maybe we can do that if you want to be a sniper.

    Maybe when you spawn all scoped rifles are locked until you reach a certain number of kills so you only get to have the infantry variants. After all, in the real war nobody was actually issued scopes for their marksmen. When the massive numbers of men enlisted (or were drafted) into the war most of them were given minimal basic training with their weapons enough to know how to make it go bang, but not necessarily had the time to practice by the time they reached the front so that they were accurate enough shooters to be considered marksmen. If a rifleman wanted to use a scope he had to purchase one privately or a VERY SMALL HANDFUL might be issued one after proving themselves on the battlefield. Usually someone like a night sentry who would pick off enemy raiding parties or officers in the enemy trench etc.

    This will deter any of the camping snipers who suck in particular from sitting three miles behind the fight and will make them move closer to use the rifle at least putting them in the vicinity of action. And if they learn how to shoot properly (which honestly you shoot MUCH better with iron sights than you do with a scope if you actually learn how to shoot. scopes are like training wheels, when you no longer need them you'll never want them back again) then they can have their precious scopes. NO sniper variants. NO marskman variants. NO telescopic weapons until they have proven they can handle them in game.

    As to whoever mentioned monte grappa, if you're on offense the amount of situations in which a sniper rifle is effective are still next to none. I'm not debating using snipers on defense, that doesn't even matter on defense. You have an unlimited number of spawns and all you have to do is kill the attackers however you see fit. It's so much easier. As ATTACKER on the other hand, especially on monte grappa operations you have the church spawn and the sector after that and then sniper rifles are no longer effective weapons. you have two fortress guns with underground bunkers (and I don't care if you had a rail gun, you aren't shooting through the mountainside through the concrete and getting a headshot unless you're hacking, so snipers are useless there) and you have a cave inside the mountain paired with the first fortress gun (so again, on this sector snipers are completely useless. can't shoot through a mountain). Then on the triple objective sector after that, like I said one of those objectives is a bunker with a fortress gun. The second objective is down below by the other side of the canyon but it has a bunker that the other team at THAT objective sits in, and you can't snipe them as the are A underground and B in a bunker. The only objective you *might* do better with a sniper rifle that you couldn't necessarily do with any other weapon is to sit on the top of the second fortress gun and snipe downhill at objective C.

    When clearing the bunkers you can use literally any gun. The Cei Riggoti is a good one for medics, any SMG or shotgun, and pretty much any LMG is good. Snipers? I mean if you're going to bayonet someone sure, but SMGs have those too AND you can actually effectively shoot them. And as for moving from the sector with the first fortress gun and the second fortress gun? The part where the enemy team sits on top of the bunker above ground and makes it into a killzone? easy. HE mortars work great. HE mortars and using semi auto rifles for cover fire. Heck even LMGs are great for moving. Or you could flank them in 360 degrees. But sniper rifles only are going to kill one enemy at a time from a distance. and i bet most of you sniper campers don't even know which class to target first do you?

    point is, sniper rifles are only effective in the hands of someone who isn't being **** and sitting on his mangina trying to save his "precious K/D ratio".
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