It's time to NERF Planes!!!

Comments

  • lucidstorm
    1738 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 2017
    @Exequtoer
    I would believe all is so easy for planes if s.o. with no experience racked up huge scores, I tried to fly once and got bu.tthu.rt pretty badly, all is different when you change your perspective a little, if there are like 3 spawns it means constant air battling before you can happily take on ground targets, all you need to do is try, I remember when I complained about shotguns (not in forum, in my head), then tried to use them and it wasn't that easy, I noticed that they are unreliable (shots not counting as supposed to) and only worked from some very close range
  • GTA_Kid386
    290 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    lh20122012 wrote: »
    I've destroyed a dozen planes today alone.
    Tryhard much?

  • r0nin_Ts
    1410 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 2017
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    Post edited by r0nin_Ts on
  • lucidstorm
    1738 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 2017
    Pilots these days seem to squad up, trust me there is no chance even for decent pilot to dog fight against 2-3 100+ stars pilot
    in bf3 I would squad up sometimes with two jet pilots from competitive scene and I was in heli with a rather pretty darn good gunner, so the server was a total mess (no need to tell you how it ended for enemies, it weren't scores like 50-2), embrace the power of teamplay, I also get r.ap.ed sometimes (more often than not) by teamplay and I can live, actually I kind of enjoy it since this is how real war looks, question of different taste here
  • r0nin_Ts
    1410 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 2017
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  • lucidstorm
    1738 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 2017
    Exequtoer wrote: »
    Medicore vehicle balance in BF3 was one of the reasons why most popular map was infantry focused map - Metro :)

    I dunno how you played and what vehicles, but it was kind of hard for each and everyone, I never learned jet in bf3 (trust me I tried), there was always someone better than me - competition was tight and very step, and heli took me soo damn long to learn so I kind of earned to be the predator and not the prey (not that easy to learn to fight 2 enemy jets, 1 enemy heli spraying tv missiles, maa and pretty powerful stinger and javelin from engy - sometimes I would say frack it and play on foot, cap a flag, whatever lol)
  • r0nin_Ts
    1410 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 2017
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  • lucidstorm
    1738 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 2017
    I would kind of argue that metro is loved for another reason, which is corner nade spam and exploits (for example the shotgun with explosives/frags that were shoot at walls, or even c4) with a very big clusterfuck that I dunno for what reason people love (actually I grasp the idea why only that I don't understand it, it's the KD farm I think the main reason of metro popularity, apart that it looks original), I would agree that balance was broken sometimes, but I must add that most of high scores were earned through hardship
  • r0nin_Ts
    1410 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 2017
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  • kaliyl777
    1958 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    LegioX wrote: »
    Ask Germany's top ace the Red Baron how planes are against ground. No planes him down, just an detachment of Australian troops.
    Planes should take way more damage against inf. You want to fly low and slow killing *cough* farming *cough* inf, then you should get blown out of sky by small arms fire. Besides these are fabric planes made of wood. We are not talking about f-15s.

    He got shot in the heart, they didn't take the plane down. And yes, you can kill the pilot with a well placed shot in BF1.
  • KorpusDraige
    2382 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    LegioX wrote: »
    Ask Germany's top ace the Red Baron how planes are against ground. No planes him down, just an detachment of Australian troops.
    Planes should take way more damage against inf. You want to fly low and slow killing *cough* farming *cough* inf, then you should get blown out of sky by small arms fire. Besides these are fabric planes made of wood. We are not talking about f-15s.

    Let me stop you... This game is arcade, not a sim. Unlimited sprint, unlimited ammo from crates, physics of the game tell us it's arcade. Infantry would also take less shots from the cannon of the plane, because you know much like the plane are from wood, humans are flesh.
  • MAGNUM_MU5TACHE
    1200 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I think the problem most people are having is that every once in a while a pilot enters their server and he is so much better than than you that you can't kill him. Then the pilot wrecks everything in the server and you come on here calling for a nerf. Remember this people, if you kill the pilot with another plane then he can't get a high k/d. Just kill him to prevent your team from being farmed. If you can't beat a pilot then you deserve to die. Nerfing the dart on the trench fighter is not gonna make a good pilot worse at dog fighting so you are still gonna get owned in the air.
  • lllTheSentinelll
    115 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Flying isn't easy when you've got a better pilot on the other team.
    Bit of a pointless statement and a poor argument for saying flying isn't easy.

    No matter how bad or good you are at any given activity, you will always come across some one who is better.
    The simple fact remains that at any given time, there can be up to 4 to 6 planes available out of 64 players on a server. A far fewer percentage of players are able to do very well with planes. That means that planes are harder to use than most of the things in the game, and so we should be nerfing a several other things before we nerf planes. Simple math and inequalities...but DICE (or casualfielders) doesn't do logic.
    Again, the number of planes available per player and therefore the limit on the numbers of players able to fly does not mean it is hard unless you count smashing X to spawn in a vehicle a 'skill'.

    Fact is the better player in the air at a given time, no matter what his ability is, can farm infantry far to easily.

    Indeed, the ability to dogfight becomes irrelevant in games where air truces, either formal or informal, are in play.

    Fact is, the Trench Fighter is:

    1. Easy to use.
    2. Effective in most circumstances
    3. Difficult to counter for the majority regardless of their ability..

    That is almost the text book definition of OP were such a definition to exist.

    Of course it's not hard to get into a plane. I said that there ARE plenty of people using planes (4 to 6 in any given game of 64), which is around 9 percent of players. I'm saying that a far lower percentage of players are very good with planes. Which means that in general, a low percentage of people trying their hand at flying are good with them. Compare this with just about any other tool in the game where people have a much higher success rate. That means that planes are harder to use than most tools in the game. Which means that it makes no sense at all to even think about nerfing them until you also nerf everything that is easier (statistically speaking, and just looking at how many people are succeeding with them compared to how many are using them) and more effective than them, which is ALMOST EVERYTHING IN THE GAME.

    Good god..I really need to stop using mathematics on this forum I forget who I'm dealing with.

    Not seeing any mathematics in this post that prices farming infantry is hard.

    Yes there are other things in this game that are 'easy' but generally speaking, their counters are effective.

    There are exceptions such as the Heavy Tank but this thread is not talking about Heavy Tanks, it is about Air but specifically, the Trench Fighter.

    As it stands, the only real and effective counter to a Trench Fighter is another fighter and that should NOT be the case.

    Is it right that a 'better player' in general terms, can get farmed by a statistically 'worse player' simply because of the vehicle he is in? The better player will try but invariably, the enemy team will thwart his attempts or he'll get darted trying.

    And @SaintBrandon88 the fact that a 'better player' in a things only effective counter should always prevail is a very poor argument to not want changes.

    Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single thing in this game that dies not have more than one freely available, effective counter. And by that, I mean equipment an infantry player can load out or Stationary Emplacements around the Battlefield. I have purposely not included other Fighters or the MAA because they are usually not freely available.

    I am dog egg at flying but in my limited experience in a Trench Fighter, the ground is NOT a threat unless I crash into it (my second biggest killer!)

    If it were so easy, you would have 5-6 people in planes every game at the top of the scoreboard getting 10-20 KDR's. Do you have that? No. You have maybe one such person in any given conquest game out of the 6 people trying to use planes (ineffectively...because they're harder than most things in the game). So if a low proportion of people trying their hand at it are succeeding, what does that tell you? How the hell can it be OP if most people can't even use it effectively? And there is a very simple counter: the AA. Sure, a TF can kill an AA user. But how often does that happen compared with an AA user killing a TF user? lol

    You just said that you have limited experience in planes, and that your second biggest killer is flying into the ground. So how the hell are you going to talk about how "easy" or "hard" a plane is compared with other tools offered in the game and whether or not planes need to be nerfed? What basis do you have? Your experience as an infantry player?

    #logic
    #busting your belief system, one myth at a time

  • Lailonn
    8 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    For 95% of my games where plane waste enemy team the losing team DONT FIGHT BACK. I stopped counted how many times i asked to spot enemy vehicle or get into AA so it can be destroyed. NO ONE CARE.

    Same thing with spotting option in general.

    So all you need to nerf is ppl being stupid
  • r0nin_Ts
    1410 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 2017
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    Post edited by r0nin_Ts on
  • KorpusDraige
    2382 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Exequtoer wrote: »
    I think the problem most people are having is that every once in a while a pilot enters their server and he is so much better than than you that you can't kill him. Then the pilot wrecks everything in the server and you come on here calling for a nerf. Remember this people, if you kill the pilot with another plane then he can't get a high k/d. Just kill him to prevent your team from being farmed. If you can't beat a pilot then you deserve to die. Nerfing the dart on the trench fighter is not gonna make a good pilot worse at dog fighting so you are still gonna get owned in the air.
    There will be always someone better than you and it doesn't has to mean that one side has to get farmed. I've provided a screenshot of 3 players getting around 130 kills total and only few deaths in 20min conquest (St.Quentin). That's more than whole their team all togheter. Good luck in dog fighting against 3 pilots with 100 service stars squading up togheter.

    Nah... Only if they practice. Majority of the people that play have no experience or just don't practice, so the "always someone better then you" doesn't apply unless they gain the experience.

    I've been on the odds of multiple pilots on me and won. I've won 2v1 with two fighters on my attack. Most of the community can not fly/dogfight. Service stars mean nothing.
  • r0nin_Ts
    1410 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 2017
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    Post edited by r0nin_Ts on
  • KorpusDraige
    2382 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Exequtoer wrote: »
    Nah... Only if they practice. Majority of the people that play have no experience or just don't practice, so the "always someone better then you" doesn't apply unless they gain the experience.

    I've been on the odds of multiple pilots on me and won. I've won 2v1 with two fighters on my attack. Most of the community can not fly/dogfight. Service stars mean nothing.
    Doesn't matter who wins, one side will get farmed. Fighter shouldn't be an attack plane. There is no reason to pick other airplanes right now.

    No, I agree that all three planes shouldn't have the same targets to add variety. However Magnum was saying people want the Trench Fighter nerfed thinking it'll stop pilots farming. He's correct in saying those same troublesome pilots will still farm, if they know how to dogfight, because nerfing won't do anything about that.You can nerf anything you want, but good pilots will continue to be good. I only want the Trench loadout nerfed because there is no variety in this game.
  • ColonelCuckold
    350 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    IllIllIII wrote: »
    IllIllIII wrote: »
    How to make planes useless, except for dgfighting 101.

    People need to learn not to bunch up. Besides, you can see an incoming fighter; then it is time to find some cover.

    Also, AA can kill a fighter just fine. People need to realise they can only start shooting when the plane is closeby, so ALL your rounds hit the target.

    9 out ofn10 times i'm suddently dead.. i have to check the screen to see it was a plane that killed me.

    No sound of the plane AND no sound of the bombs either.

    They are 100 years old planes but i bet the modernday army would love such a stealthy bombers...

    Then stop looking at your feet or drooling around at a CP.

    If I die to a fighter, it's because I wasn't aware of my surroundings at that given time. Also, ever looked at your minimap? It clearly shows the direction of an approaching plane.
    Yea lets all stare at the stars because there might be a plane incomming....

    Well, if you don't adapt, you die. Don't ask for nerfs, if it is your gamesense that needs some serious work.



    You seem to be a pretty good player but you're not being realistic here.

    Nobody dies to planes because they're staring at the ground. And it's not realistic to ask people to constantly monitor the sky either.

    The fact is that the vast majority of the time that a player dies to a plane, its a sudden bombing run by a trench fighter that you never heard or saw coming.

    Let's be honest about planes - they add to a more immersive experience but they also dont take a lot of skill to rack up kill counts under halfway decent circumstances...so getting killed by them as infantry usually just feels like a cheap, umavoidable death. It takes the fun factor down by a lot.
  • ColonelCuckold
    350 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I get killed by tanks more than planes. This is the truth, and the fact is, heavy tanks alone accumulate more kills than all planes combined, and by a pretty decent margin. That said, the recent AA nerf was not needed. I don't even really feel like the fighter is OP. I just think they nerfed the tail-gun of the attack plane too much. I used to fly the attack planes mainly, but it's hard to keep them in the air. Basically, it's just imbalanced. I can agree that infantry weapons should do a bit more damage to planes, especially when hitting in the right locations of the planes.

    Then you need to get better gunners because an attack plane tail gunner shreds both bomber killers and dog fighters in half the time it takes for either of those planes to even score a disable...and air to air rockets are next to useless because most of the time they just fly between the wings
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