It's time to NERF Planes!!!

Comments

  • Feed4u
    697 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    bearpatroI wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Yep the downtime is why I imagine we will hardly see any fighters being flown after this nerf. All attack planes and bombers will be what we see.

    With no fighters in the air it is going to be a field day for bombers. People are going to cry so hard I can tell already. Don't get me wrong I do think the darts need nerfing but this will drive everyone to use the attack planes and bombers me thinks.
    Exactly, you can ask bear what I do with a bomber when uncontested. I literally farm their tanks and SAA while my front gunner rapes infantry while I gunship after I Deal with my priorities.
  • Trokey66
    8986 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    StalHamarr wrote: »
    Trokey:

    As I have said through out this thread, you are basing your tirade about the the different impact of planes in BF1 vs BF4.

    Wich, as I have said through out this thread, is incredibly stupid because:
    - no helicopters on BF1;
    - your stats and your experience matter absolutely nothing when it comes to game balance. After 47 pages, I still fail to see how "I think planes are easier" should be considered a valid argument. Who are you to say what should be easy and what should be hard? What do you know about DICE's plan for this game? Why should be BF1 the copy of BF4 with different models? Why isn't DICE allowed to make flying easier? Because you said so?

    You keep basing your entire monologue around the easiness of flying on BF1. Yes, flying planes in BF1 is easier. So **** what?

    By your logic, we would be playing BF1942 with modern graphics and exactly the same game mechanics because, by your logic, if something works in a certain way, then it must remain the same in the next Battlefield.

    Sniping in BF4 was harder. Why is it easier now? Because DICE decided it must be easier this time. End of story.
    Medic rifles are more difficult to use in BF1 than BF4's full-auto laser guns. Should we start a 50 page thread about it?

    And you are starting to sound like a broken record. You seem to be pretty obsessed, for someone who casually entered the discussion to offer his constructive and unbiased feedback.

    Unfortunately, I sound like a broken record because some people fail to grasp the basic premise behind my point

    @DingoKillr gets it.

    @Feed4u, read the whole thread when you get a chance.
  • Feed4u
    697 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    StalHamarr wrote: »
    Trokey:

    As I have said through out this thread, you are basing your tirade about the the different impact of planes in BF1 vs BF4.

    Wich, as I have said through out this thread, is incredibly stupid because:
    - no helicopters on BF1;
    - your stats and your experience matter absolutely nothing when it comes to game balance. After 47 pages, I still fail to see how "I think planes are easier" should be considered a valid argument. Who are you to say what should be easy and what should be hard? What do you know about DICE's plan for this game? Why should be BF1 the copy of BF4 with different models? Why isn't DICE allowed to make flying easier? Because you said so?

    You keep basing your entire monologue around the easiness of flying on BF1. Yes, flying planes in BF1 is easier. So **** what?

    By your logic, we would be playing BF1942 with modern graphics and exactly the same game mechanics because, by your logic, if something works in a certain way, then it must remain the same in the next Battlefield.

    Sniping in BF4 was harder. Why is it easier now? Because DICE decided it must be easier this time. End of story.
    Medic rifles are more difficult to use in BF1 than BF4's full-auto laser guns. Should we start a 50 page thread about it?

    And you are starting to sound like a broken record. You seem to be pretty obsessed, for someone who casually entered the discussion to offer his constructive and unbiased feedback.

    Unfortunately, I sound like a broken record because some people fail to grasp the basic premise behind my point

    @DingoKillr gets it.

    @Feed4u, read the whole thread when you get a chance.

    @Trokey66 I'll try make the time, I have been focusing on this thread in particular and hitting TOP 100 in bomber kills. I will make an effort to read as much of it as possible, I already bookmarked it, thanks for sharing the thread. As for the statistics, stats has changed drastically since January, so not all of the statistics on the thread is current.
  • Trokey66
    8986 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Feed4u wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    StalHamarr wrote: »
    Trokey:

    As I have said through out this thread, you are basing your tirade about the the different impact of planes in BF1 vs BF4.

    Wich, as I have said through out this thread, is incredibly stupid because:
    - no helicopters on BF1;
    - your stats and your experience matter absolutely nothing when it comes to game balance. After 47 pages, I still fail to see how "I think planes are easier" should be considered a valid argument. Who are you to say what should be easy and what should be hard? What do you know about DICE's plan for this game? Why should be BF1 the copy of BF4 with different models? Why isn't DICE allowed to make flying easier? Because you said so?

    You keep basing your entire monologue around the easiness of flying on BF1. Yes, flying planes in BF1 is easier. So **** what?

    By your logic, we would be playing BF1942 with modern graphics and exactly the same game mechanics because, by your logic, if something works in a certain way, then it must remain the same in the next Battlefield.

    Sniping in BF4 was harder. Why is it easier now? Because DICE decided it must be easier this time. End of story.
    Medic rifles are more difficult to use in BF1 than BF4's full-auto laser guns. Should we start a 50 page thread about it?

    And you are starting to sound like a broken record. You seem to be pretty obsessed, for someone who casually entered the discussion to offer his constructive and unbiased feedback.

    Unfortunately, I sound like a broken record because some people fail to grasp the basic premise behind my point

    @DingoKillr gets it.

    @Feed4u, read the whole thread when you get a chance.

    @Trokey66 I'll try make the time, I have been focusing on this thread in particular and hitting TOP 100 in bomber kills. I will make an effort to read as much of it as possible, I already bookmarked it, thanks for sharing the thread. As for the statistics, stats has changed drastically since January, so not all of the statistics on the thread is current.

    Yes they are pre DLC but the principle still applies.
  • SirBobdk
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bearpatroI wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Yep the downtime is why I imagine we will hardly see any fighters being flown after this nerf. All attack planes and bombers will be what we see.

    With no fighters in the air it is going to be a field day for bombers. People are going to cry so hard I can tell already. Don't get me wrong I do think the darts need nerfing but this will drive everyone to use the attack planes and bombers me thinks.

    I have total around 220 stars i all planes and 170 in fighter and also spend 40% of time playing infantry.

    Darts need nerfing, you almost dont need to aim and the spread is insane.
    Trench fighter is ridiculous.

    @Trokey66 has a point about it's being easier to get a lot of kills in BF1 than BF4 for a lot of reasons. Hard to compare BF1/BF4 but he do have a solid point.
    Most pilots can't get 30-50 kills, but even pilots without any experience can get 10-15 kills in the fighter.

    But like i have said a number of times. Air without a fighter (and this could happen if Dice get the nerf wrong) will be just as bad.
    And believe me, pilots go for the planes that are most effektive og and not necessarily logical for the team. Same with tanks vs MAA.

    Right now almost all pilots choose the fighter which is not logical since they can not counter tanks, but it gives more kills.

    Tanks and planes don't have to teamplay but infantry do, funny if you think about it.
    Plane and tanks can repair them self, have unlimited ammo and reload fast.

    If the fighter after after next patch gives far less kills than the attack/bomber, well then pilot will switch.
    It's a lot harder to dogfight in the attack plane, so worst case scenario is attack/bomber farming infantry and not each other.

    A change is needed because In the end infantry bleed because of poor balance and wrong choice of vehicle (Plane and tanks) from the players.
  • Feed4u
    697 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited April 2017
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    [quot.e="Feed4u;787089"]
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    StalHamarr wrote: »
    Trokey:

    As I have said through out this thread, you are basing your tirade about the the different impact of planes in BF1 vs BF4.

    Wich, as I have said through out this thread, is incredibly stupid because:
    - no helicopters on BF1;
    - your stats and your experience matter absolutely nothing when it comes to game balance. After 47 pages, I still fail to see how "I think planes are easier" should be considered a valid argument. Who are you to say what should be easy and what should be hard? What do you know about DICE's plan for this game? Why should be BF1 the copy of BF4 with different models? Why isn't DICE allowed to make flying easier? Because you said so?

    You keep basing your entire monologue around the easiness of flying on BF1. Yes, flying planes in BF1 is easier. So **** what?

    By your logic, we would be playing BF1942 with modern graphics and exactly the same game mechanics because, by your logic, if something works in a certain way, then it must remain the same in the next Battlefield.

    Sniping in BF4 was harder. Why is it easier now? Because DICE decided it must be easier this time. End of story.
    Medic rifles are more difficult to use in BF1 than BF4's full-auto laser guns. Should we start a 50 page thread about it?

    And you are starting to sound like a broken record. You seem to be pretty obsessed, for someone who casually entered the discussion to offer his constructive and unbiased feedback.

    Unfortunately, I sound like a broken record because some people fail to grasp the basic premise behind my point

    @DingoKillr gets it.

    @Feed4u, read the whole thread when you get a chance.

    @Trokey66 I'll try make the time, I have been focusing on this thread in particular and hitting TOP 100 in bomber kills. I will make an effort to read as much of it as possible, I already bookmarked it, thanks for sharing the thread. As for the statistics, stats has changed drastically since January, so not all of the statistics on the thread is current.

    Yes they are pre DLC but the principle still applies.

    @Trokey66 : As per requested, I read through all 8 pages of the post(I saw your post, and I am glad you started flying. Only wish you started earlier so people stat shaming which I have now begun to grown distasteful too without full analysis of ones stats). I am also glad unlike the other thread that was closed for bickering among, this thread actually has constructive arguments that has lead to the conclusion that TF is too strong.

    The reason why I said the statistics on the thread is not so relevant to now, is because AP tail gun was nerfed in late November IIRC, and TF was only beginning to start becoming popular. Since than TF has become more popular since January as can be deduced from statistics on https://battlefieldtracker.com/bf1/vehicles. As you can see, popularity or AP vs Fighters took a change in early January as people began to give up AP as their main plane and started to main TF. This is why I am saying the statistics from the thread you posted for me to read is currently largely irrelevant having being posted on December 18, 2016 2:01PM edited December 2016, in comparison to the state of the game in vehicles today. Also, I believe this was before the second AA nerf, someone please correct me if I am wrong!
    I believe there are far more pilots(both skilled and apprentice) in comparison to back than, and the recent decline in HT popularity is due to the introduction of the new Assault Tank. It has been 3 months since that post, hence why I believe the state of the game and meta has changed drastically till the point where the original stats OP posted will not be an accurate depiction of what those statistics would look like today.

    I personally from my current experience do not believe it is as OP as people claim it to be, but over popular as I have already stated(if anything it is only just a tad 2 strong, and I want a nerf to put its popular back in place). I flew TF twice this week(My friend and I really turned the game just by having 2 TF on BB), AP at least twice and mostly Bomber, however I have fairly extensive experience on all 3 planes as previously mentioned.

    For those who continue to monitor and bookmark this thread, lets keep it that way instead of arguing over stat shaming and personal vendettas against each other. Lets try to keep our post constructive so we may continue to have banter on the state of balance in planes in BF1, which I have truly enjoyed sharing my input with those willing to read my walls of text.I always try to think from both ends of the spectrum and hope that my opinions have not been biased, but instead have the opportunity to share my experience.

    For this week I will try to argue on the other side of the equation with the people who think planes are OP despite having sharing the opposite sentiments.
    Edit: format reasons
  • Trokey66
    8986 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The last few pages were a bit of a disaster.

    Yes, the data is old but the basic premise is still valid. The stats he used could neither prove OR disprove a thing is OP.

    There are to many variables, the data for which is unavailable. Unlike a Heavy Tank or Landship, no aircraft has up to 6 guns for example.
  • VoodooxHaze
    106 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I don't understand how people instead of wanting to get better as a pilot want an easier solution dealing with planes. Learn to dogfight and take out the fighters. Basic maneuvers can take a out any mediocre pilot. Even seasoned pilots. I do agree that the darts are cheap that the timer needs to be longer and that the ground attack belongs to the bombers. However the aa's were stupid op before and DO NOT need the range and damage they had before. That's why the aa truck is there for guys . Or simply get better in the air.

    Just like the shotgun talk. Everyone wants an easier way to get kills against better opponents.
  • Giliaaannn
    1162 postsMember Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Exequtoer wrote: »
    Something needs to be done with Trench Fighter ASAP. All other planes/vehicles are okay, except this OP crap.
    This is perfect example, when 3 clanmates will squad-up and take 3 trench fighters (which have much faster respawn rate than MAA):
    img]

    This one for a start.......

    Yes, yes, we also had one guy complain earlier about a team of level 100's that stacked a team and did this sort of thing. You can do the same thing with tanks, and if some group were to get together you can get an anomaly like that. Ie. when YouTubers group together in a lobby and pub-stomp. I'm asking you in general, enter any game of plane enabled conquest. What will you see...lol if what you are saying were the trend, we would see planes at the top of that chart instead of heavy tanks. Even the light tanks are higher up in kills...how many light tanks are even available at any given time compared to how many planes are available? If despite that, planes are only beating out horses, what does that tell you?

    You're avoiding logic now and I can almost track your every little "trick" to avoid basic stats...

    It is the same one, not very observant are you?

    But hey, I answered you question so move the goal posts again what don't you.

    Let me get this straight, you are saying that Air is never at the top of the leader boards because tank therefore the TF is not OP?

    Oh dear....

    If it's the same case, then your point is even less valid. We're bringing up the same unusual case that doesn't represent the trend. The goalposts were always to address the general trend. You answered the wrong goalpost to begin with by giving me one anomaly. I'm saying that if air use is comparable to tank use, and tank success rate is so much higher than air success rate, then on average, people are having an easier time with tanks (and just about any other tool in the game) than they are, on average, with planes. So it makes no sense to nerf something that, on average, a lower proportion of people using are succeeding with.

    Why do Fighters have more kills than Light Tanks and Landships combined despite being on fewer maps?

    Classic Trokey.
  • Giliaaannn
    1162 postsMember Member
    bearpatroI wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Yep the downtime is why I imagine we will hardly see any fighters being flown after this nerf. All attack planes and bombers will be what we see.

    With no fighters in the air it is going to be a field day for bombers. People are going to cry so hard I can tell already. Don't get me wrong I do think the darts need nerfing but this will drive everyone to use the attack planes and bombers me thinks.

    Exactly. People don't even bother to shoot them down with AA so when fighters air to ground abilities get nerfed nobody will bother to use those either > bombers go unchallenged > more people will stick around in the gunner seats > commence whining.
    When you are in the front gunner seat of a bomber all you have to do is point at a flag and press the spot button and your screen lights up like a christmas tree, after that your pilot will know exactly where to drop his bombs and you will get easy 1-3 kills as gunner as well (and probably much more if you are more experienced) per strafe. So it is quite funny to hear people (who have no clue about what they are complaining about) complain about darts, like it's not going to be much worse with attack planes and bombers for infantry when there is no one bothered to spawn in a fighter. Like it's not a big deal that bombers will be taking out your tanks. Like it's going to be better.

    Leave balance up to DICE because we don't have a clue what we are talking about.
  • SirBobdk
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    @Trokey66
    Why do Fighters have more kills than Light Tanks and Landships combined despite being on fewer maps?
    Don't think you can make this comparison on less you look at time spend using them on the maps. KPM and KDR would be a better comparison.
  • SirBobdk
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    @Creasie wrote:
    Leave balance up to DICE because we don't have a clue what we are talking about.
    Maby but I am not sure that DICE knows more then we do. So far i'm not impressed with their adjustments air vs. ground.
    Changes will be made from current skill level and the players choice on how to play, but it is also a difficult task
    This changes over time and something which seems balanced may tomorrow be unbalanced because the conditions change.
    Like if all began using the MAA, there would be no need for any nerf.
    Post edited by SirBobdk on
  • Trokey66
    8986 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @Trokey66
    Why do Fighters have more kills than Light Tanks and Landships combined despite being on fewer maps?
    Don't think you can make this comparison on less you look at time spend using them on the maps. KPM and KDR would be a better comparison.

    Exactly, but there are people using Heavy Tank stats to say that there is no issue with Fighters in the ground attack role so I just threw that in there to show that comparing apples and oranges is pointless.
  • SirBobdk
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    @Trokey66
    Why do Fighters have more kills than Light Tanks and Landships combined despite being on fewer maps?
    Don't think you can make this comparison on less you look at time spend using them on the maps. KPM and KDR would be a better comparison.

    Exactly, but there are people using Heavy Tank stats to say that there is no issue with Fighters in the ground attack role so I just threw that in there to show that comparing apples and oranges is pointless.
    Yep, if I only used tanks i would have no problems with fighters and would prefer that pilots continued to choose fighter. Tanks will get it difficult when/if pilots switch to attack plane/Bomber
  • StalHamarr
    251 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Trokey are you gonna start a thread about submachine guns?

    Because on BF1 they are incredibly easier to use than in any previous iteration.

    That's your (lack of) logic.
  • SirBobdk
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    StalHamarr wrote: »
    Trokey are you gonna start a thread about submachine guns?
    Because on BF1 they are incredibly easier to use than in any previous iteration.
    That's your (lack of) logic.
    Why the need to insult.
  • Captain_DarIing
    1425 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited April 2017
    Cart3r27 wrote: »
    Yeah that's why I play frontlines now

    The new operation maps I am killed by planes all day and see them go 50+ / 0 deaths. I try spawn in an attack plane but someone else is clowning around. Sucks cuz I like operations.

    I'd love Operations if playercount is below 44 and vehicles get balanced. Until then, Operations is used as a clustered easy farming field for vehicle (tank and plane-) campers. Too frustrating for infantry.
  • StalHamarr
    251 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    StalHamarr wrote: »
    Trokey are you gonna start a thread about submachine guns?
    Because on BF1 they are incredibly easier to use than in any previous iteration.
    That's your (lack of) logic.
    Why the need to insult.

    That's not even remotely offensive. That argument has no logic foundations. It means absolutely nothing in a discussion about vehicle balance.
    Many people pointed it already, but apparently he's enjoying his monologue.

    Anyway, he's been taking jabs at everyone who disagrees for a while now, so I think I'm out of this tirade.
    I promise I'll be thinking about this thread while I farm infantry with the attack plane.
  • SirBobdk
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @StalHamarr
    I promise I'll be thinking about this thread while I farm infantry with the attack plane.
    LOL yes and why I participate in this thread. I can see where this is going trying to fix the trench darts.
    But ok, i couldn't se what argument you were referring to after 48 pages :smile:
  • Trokey66
    8986 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    Edit: Nevermind....
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