ok ,DICE ,have you decided yet on the gun balance changes.

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huricanechuck
1014 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
this CTE testing has been going on for a while now, most people agreed (a few weeks ago) that it would be a good change for the game. so ,why is it taking so long to decide whether or not to put it in ,if you are going to , when? if not can you please let us know.

Comments

  • Gforce81
    3666 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    this CTE testing has been going on for a while now, most people agreed (a few weeks ago) that it would be a good change for the game. so ,why is it taking so long to decide whether or not to put it in ,if you are going to , when? if not can you please let us know.

    I have to say, I'm not on board with their planned changes unless they make some changes to what weapons get the buff and to what level.

    Just lumping all automatic weapons in together for an across the board TTK buff is a big mistake in my opinion. I know others feel differently on this, and that's cool, I just am not on board for most of their proposed change.

    I'm comfortable with the TTK situation in BF1 as it stands, making such a drastic chance to how the game plays so late is confusing. I could point fingers at why, but that's a can of worms I'd rather not open
  • mihai2011rom
    792 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I do not want this "balance" patch to come out. Also, no one is playing the cte. So, it's impossible to test it.
  • bran1986
    5648 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2017
    Well just 4 or 5 days ago they added a change to how bipods work, which is now being "tested." I mean "tested" because I tried to do some testing with it this past weekend and there were only 10-14 of us on the CTE. You would think DICE would get their "game changers" to help us test all this stuff.

    DICE also posted on the subreddit smgs and lmgs would likely be getting further tweaks to their ttk, but all the ttk stuff has been pulled from the CTE for the time being to test this netcode hotfix that is supposed to be coming in the next couple of days, again hard to test because most couldn't get into the CTE yesterday and when you could there were only 2 people playing anyway.

    I saw on twitter Battlefield Bulletin said the balance wouldn't be in the next update, which I'm assuming means October, so it looks like November is the earliest we will see it.
  • TectonicGuns
    302 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Forget "buff" or "nerf" for the new "balance" hopefully coming sooner than later. It all about reducing Time To Kill, a fundamental game changer. I suspect the relative balance between weapons in each class will stay about the same. However some classes like medic and support may be changed as to fit the overall TTK frame work kind of relative to the Assault class. Recon stays the same. Making BF1 gun play more like the tried and proven BF3/BF4 style will be a good thing, less frustrating and bring more players in the game.
  • Bossman1794
    1073 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Yeah, there are pretty much 0 people playing the CTE right now on PS4 so whatever they put in there I can't even play properly.

    I like the idea of reducing the TTK in theory, but I have absolutely no idea how it's going to turn out in practice.
  • Loqtrall
    12020 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    I saw on twitter Battlefield Bulletin said the balance wouldn't be in the next update, which I'm assuming means October, so it looks like November is the earliest we will see it.

    Well the next update is technically tomorrow, so October 21st's update could be the update it comes in (if another month is long enough to thoroughly test it)
  • bran1986
    5648 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    bran1986 wrote: »
    I saw on twitter Battlefield Bulletin said the balance wouldn't be in the next update, which I'm assuming means October, so it looks like November is the earliest we will see it.

    Well the next update is technically tomorrow, so October 21st's update could be the update it comes in (if another month is long enough to thoroughly test it)

    Yeah that is true. You are right.
  • aseveredfoot
    2446 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I'm torn on whether the change is wise or not. I agree completely with the people who say it's too late to make major changes; people have learned how to play the game the way it is, and I've been mostly happy with the game lately.

    On the other hand, I managed to sneak in a few hour session on the PS4 CTE with the patch and it honestly felt awesome. It still did not really remind me of BF4, but LMGs actually could work at closer range, but the ones that got extra recoil (Huot, Lewis, Perino) were harder to get kills at range with, which kind of changes their original purposes entirely. I didn't feel particularly outgunned with medic rifles, as the PC guys seem to say; I was able to go toe to toe with scouts at about 200m, with a General Liu which was nice. But as my personal style revolves around outmaneuvering/flanking/ambushing people, as opposed to straight 1v1s, I didn't have issues with the 'disadvantage' of slrs.

    But I will say, right out of the door I was able to go 46-12 with just a plain Lewis Gun, which I'm not sure that's really fair given its fast reload and magazine capacity. It was fun, but it felt really easy to me. Or maybe I should see it as a reward for all the CQB fights I lost over the last year to assault class players.
  • bran1986
    5648 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member

    The problem is reducing the TTK also puts a class like medic in a strange place where it isn't very useful which is a major problem. Right now in the CTE, no one plays medic at all. It really doesn't make sense to play medic with the CTE changes to be honest. The first problem is with the lmgs all getting buffed to 4-5 btk weapons changes the "balance completely". You have lmgs built for more mid-long range engagements like the Perino and Benet-Mercie that will now be on par with the best cqb weapons, these weapons will still be good a mid-long range, all the while the medic weapons are basically hard locked into being only effective at close range, which in the vanilla version of the game is fine for balance.

    The second problem is, since they can't do a damage buff for medic weapons or give can't do a rate of fire buff because of the way the sound works, the only thing DICE can seemingly do is increase the effective range for medics. All this does is basically push them further and further from the point and away from where they can be effective for the team.

    Being a work in progress there is always things that can change and fix these problems. DICE have said they are working on removing the smoke from SLRs, there is talk of tweaking visual recoil on guns like the Fedorov Avtomat. Bipods are being tweaked so weapons like the Parabellum and BAR will be more cqb weapons and less like all around death beams as they were in the previous build of the CTE. The current build does feel better, but there is still some serious tweaking that needs to be done.
  • aseveredfoot
    2446 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    The problem is reducing the TTK also puts a class like medic in a strange place where it isn't very useful which is a major problem. Right now in the CTE, no one plays medic at all. It really doesn't make sense to play medic with the CTE changes to be honest. The first problem is with the lmgs all getting buffed to 4-5 btk weapons changes the "balance completely". You have lmgs built for more mid-long range engagements like the Perino and Benet-Mercie that will now be on par with the best cqb weapons, these weapons will still be good a mid-long range, all the while the medic weapons are basically hard locked into being only effective at close range, which in the vanilla version of the game is fine for balance.

    The second problem is, since they can't do a damage buff for medic weapons or give can't do a rate of fire buff because of the way the sound works, the only thing DICE can seemingly do is increase the effective range for medics. All this does is basically push them further and further from the point and away from where they can be effective for the team.

    Being a work in progress there is always things that can change and fix these problems. DICE have said they are working on removing the smoke from SLRs, there is talk of tweaking visual recoil on guns like the Fedorov Avtomat. Bipods are being tweaked so weapons like the Parabellum and BAR will be more cqb weapons and less like all around death beams as they were in the previous build of the CTE. The current build does feel better, but there is still some serious tweaking that needs to be done.

    The reduction of spread increase per shot is in some ways a ROF buff. You can actually use them at higher ROFs without missing and having to be focusing on restraining yourself. I agree completely about the smoke with medic rifles being huge problem, how do you land follow-up shots when you can't see a thing? It sucks even in the current retail game.
  • bran1986
    5648 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member

    bran1986 wrote: »
    The problem is reducing the TTK also puts a class like medic in a strange place where it isn't very useful which is a major problem. Right now in the CTE, no one plays medic at all. It really doesn't make sense to play medic with the CTE changes to be honest. The first problem is with the lmgs all getting buffed to 4-5 btk weapons changes the "balance completely". You have lmgs built for more mid-long range engagements like the Perino and Benet-Mercie that will now be on par with the best cqb weapons, these weapons will still be good a mid-long range, all the while the medic weapons are basically hard locked into being only effective at close range, which in the vanilla version of the game is fine for balance.

    The second problem is, since they can't do a damage buff for medic weapons or give can't do a rate of fire buff because of the way the sound works, the only thing DICE can seemingly do is increase the effective range for medics. All this does is basically push them further and further from the point and away from where they can be effective for the team.

    Being a work in progress there is always things that can change and fix these problems. DICE have said they are working on removing the smoke from SLRs, there is talk of tweaking visual recoil on guns like the Fedorov Avtomat. Bipods are being tweaked so weapons like the Parabellum and BAR will be more cqb weapons and less like all around death beams as they were in the previous build of the CTE. The current build does feel better, but there is still some serious tweaking that needs to be done.

    The reduction of spread increase per shot is in some ways a ROF buff. You can actually use them at higher ROFs without missing and having to be focusing on restraining yourself. I agree completely about the smoke with medic rifles being huge problem, how do you land follow-up shots when you can't see a thing? It sucks even in the current retail game.

    I can see what you are saying, but the problem in practice doesn't really amount to much. You can fire the rifle with more accuracy at its top ROF true, but at the same time you are going against lmgs that have been significantly buffed. Meaning you have to fight through suppression and all that still, but you die that much faster. You miss a shot and you are now going to be doubly screwed as you are now. There is some talk of making lmgs and smgs a little bit harder to use, which I think might definitely even things out a bit. I definitely agree with the smoke, it is insanely hard to track targets, especially when fighting in doors.
  • mihai2011rom
    792 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    bran1986 wrote: »
    The problem is reducing the TTK also puts a class like medic in a strange place where it isn't very useful which is a major problem. Right now in the CTE, no one plays medic at all. It really doesn't make sense to play medic with the CTE changes to be honest. The first problem is with the lmgs all getting buffed to 4-5 btk weapons changes the "balance completely". You have lmgs built for more mid-long range engagements like the Perino and Benet-Mercie that will now be on par with the best cqb weapons, these weapons will still be good a mid-long range, all the while the medic weapons are basically hard locked into being only effective at close range, which in the vanilla version of the game is fine for balance.

    The second problem is, since they can't do a damage buff for medic weapons or give can't do a rate of fire buff because of the way the sound works, the only thing DICE can seemingly do is increase the effective range for medics. All this does is basically push them further and further from the point and away from where they can be effective for the team.

    Being a work in progress there is always things that can change and fix these problems. DICE have said they are working on removing the smoke from SLRs, there is talk of tweaking visual recoil on guns like the Fedorov Avtomat. Bipods are being tweaked so weapons like the Parabellum and BAR will be more cqb weapons and less like all around death beams as they were in the previous build of the CTE. The current build does feel better, but there is still some serious tweaking that needs to be done.

    The reduction of spread increase per shot is in some ways a ROF buff. You can actually use them at higher ROFs without missing and having to be focusing on restraining yourself. I agree completely about the smoke with medic rifles being huge problem, how do you land follow-up shots when you can't see a thing? It sucks even in the current retail game.

    I can see what you are saying, but the problem in practice doesn't really amount to much. You can fire the rifle with more accuracy at its top ROF true, but at the same time you are going against lmgs that have been significantly buffed. Meaning you have to fight through suppression and all that still, but you die that much faster. You miss a shot and you are now going to be doubly screwed as you are now. There is some talk of making lmgs and smgs a little bit harder to use, which I think might definitely even things out a bit. I definitely agree with the smoke, it is insanely hard to track targets, especially when fighting in doors.

    It seems easier to just leave things as they are and scrap this thing. Similar to the ammo 2.0 abomination. It will simply create more balance problems and people will stop playing when their favorite gun is suddenly different.
  • Aeshettr
    222 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    DICE have said they are working on removing the smoke from SLRs

    This just got me hard
  • huricanechuck
    1014 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited September 2017
    I agree that some guns do not need the damage buff, BAR, MG14, chauchat, madsen from support. hellriegal, autimatico. from the assault. the MG15 and MP18 could be arguable . but lets be honest guns like the lewis gun ,huot,benet-mercie, perino, and maxim 08/18 need it ,just to be competitive. in all honesty ,I've I've got 30 service stars on the lewis gun optical,(statistically the least used gun in the game) and I've learned to adapt a playstyle for it. but it can be maddening losing a close range fight to an SMG even when I know I was shooting first and easily had the drop on him just because his fire rate is so much faster, or a mid range firefight to a medic ,because he can easily get 3 rounds into me before I can get 7 rounds into him. think about it ,the lewis gun does max damage of 23 ,same as all LMGs but minimum of 15 with a damage drop at about 11m, roughly the same damage drop of some shotguns. there is a REASON the huot ,and lewis gun are the least use guns.
  • huricanechuck
    1014 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited September 2017
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    It's literally only been a couple weeks and the community was very split with many of the changes being made, specifically to guns that didn't need buffs. There were people on both side of the fence pointing out weapons that didn't need to go through the balancing pass (like the BAR Storm, Hellriegel, and RSC). It's just straight up false even implying that "most people agreed it would be a good change" altogether.

    Balancing passes like this need to be tested, not only to find the weapons that don't need it, but to tone down weapons that got TOO good a buff - like the Parabellum which, with the new changes applied to it, could kill people across the map in less than a second, and which a ton of people in the CTE portion of the community were complaining about.

    They shouldn't just push a game-wide weapon balance pass into the CTE and then force it into the game in a matter of a couple weeks - that's how we get guns being straight up broken to the extent that there's no reason to use any other weapons in the class. I'd rather DICE REALLY take their time with this balancing pass, and realize what needed to be buffed in order to be a more viable choice, and what doesn't need a buff because it would become overpowered as hell and result in the aforementioned buffs becoming pointless.
    what I meant was most of the people I've discussed it with agrees it would be a good change. and whats the difference between getting killed in one second from across the map by an MG14 or a sniper rifle. I guess it's just more fun for a sniper to do it than a support.
  • bran1986
    5648 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    what I meant was most of the people I've discussed it with agrees it would be a good change. and whats the difference between getting killed in one second from across the map by an MG14 or a sniper rifle. I guess it's just more fun for a sniper to do it than a support.

    So DICE should go ahead and rush a balancing pass to the full game because you and random people you specifically talked to think it's a good idea?

    Cool story.

    And the difference between being killed in one second by an MG or a rifle at long range is that the MG shoots literally 10x faster and can hold 10x more rounds per magazine, and the class they're used in has a combination of specializations that eliminate 100% of incoming suppression when you're using your bipod (unbreakable and cover), meaning they're laser accurate on a bipod even if they're being suppressed.

    There is a HUGE and noticeable difference there.

    Exactly. The perino is going to be a 4-5 btk weapon with a 100+ round magazine, 61 rounds before an overheat, lazer accurate and has no recoil whatsoever. A quick burst of 3 or 4 rounds and I'm surpressed as a medic, it isn't going to matter if my spread increase per shot was cut in half or my range extended when I can't hit anything because my bullets are flying everywhere, all the while a bipoded lmg player with the right perks can have all the suppression negated and will still be lazer accurate.

    Then the kicker of it all is the perino will still have the same ttk as the best medic cqb weapons, with the exception of the autoloading 8, the 25 extended will only be better under 17 meters. The best medic cqb weapons are basically hard locked at that range, meaning they suck at any range but close quarters. This isn't balance to me at all and it is why no one in the cte with these changes plays medic, and why medics became a joke in the chat.
  • huricanechuck
    1014 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    what I meant was most of the people I've discussed it with agrees it would be a good change. and whats the difference between getting killed in one second from across the map by an MG14 or a sniper rifle. I guess it's just more fun for a sniper to do it than a support.

    So DICE should go ahead and rush a balancing pass to the full game because you and random people you specifically talked to think it's a good idea?

    Cool story.

    And the difference between being killed in one second by an MG or a rifle at long range is that the MG shoots literally 10x faster and can hold 10x more rounds per magazine, and the class they're used in has a combination of specializations that eliminate 100% of incoming suppression when you're using your bipod (unbreakable and cover), meaning they're laser accurate on a bipod even if they're being suppressed.

    There is a HUGE and noticeable difference there.

    i never said they should rush it . all my post was about was a possible time frame of when or even if it is going to be put in the regulargame. why is it every time i see you post , all you seem to do is twist what people say to suit yourself? do you think it shouldn't be in the game because you and A FEW RANDOM people think it's a bad idea. now on to your next point . what difference does fire rate make when the scout only needs one shot (in most cases). and this suppression and lazer accuracy of bi-podded LMGs , get serious. they still have recoil and still have random bullet spread, albeit much less , but it's still there. and i don't know what platform you're on but on xbox1 suppression is a complete joke. anyone one who claims they ever missed a shot or got killed because of suppression is either lying to themselves or making excuses . i can't think of one single time i've ever missed a shot or lost a gunfight because of suppression. bad aim, bad skill , on some occasions maybe even lag. but all i ever noticed from suppression is my screen getting a little dark around the edges . now all that being said. i will not respond to you any more . because every time i see you post you're either twisting peoples words, trying to bait them into an argument ,or just being disagreeable just to disagree. thank you have a good life.
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