Hit Detection

Comments

  • TarmacOak
    152 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hit detection in bf1? Ha ha ha!
  • DenNassi
    22 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    DenNassi wrote: »
    DenNassi wrote: »
    DenNassi wrote: »
    The option in multiplayer for hardcore team deathmatch is gone. My ping and settings are okay.
    I only see rush and conquer, and can see the server list and join..but these games are not hardcore..

    Is this a router problem?

    server browser issue.

    Do not think so.. I can see 100+ games and join them.
    In multiplayer -> custom games, there are only 3 options : rush,conquer and one other..but no hardcore team

    Off topic .... This discussion is on Hit Detection.

    regardless .........

    If you go to Multiplayer -> Custom Games there's "Quick Match" options for several Hardcore game modes. What's listed is always changing and is more than likely based on availability. Currently there is Conquest, Tsar Conquest, Rush and Back to Basics Conquest.

    Best option is to create a filter for HC TDM.
    Multiplayer -> Server Browser -> Filter
    Set game mode to TDM
    Enter Hardcore in the "Name" field.

    P5yro4U.jpg


    If you don't get any results then their probably aren't any HC TDM servers up in your region.
    DenNassi wrote: »
    DenNassi wrote: »
    The option in multiplayer for hardcore team deathmatch is gone. My ping and settings are okay.
    I only see rush and conquer, and can see the server list and join..but these games are not hardcore..

    Is this a router problem?

    server browser issue.

    Do not think so.. I can see 100+ games and join them.
    In multiplayer -> custom games, there are only 3 options : rush,conquer and one other..but no hardcore team

    Off topic .... This discussion is on Hit Detection.

    regardless .........

    If you go to Multiplayer -> Custom Games there's "Quick Match" options for several Hardcore game modes. What's listed is always changing and is more than likely based on availability. Currently there is Conquest, Tsar Conquest, Rush and Back to Basics Conquest.

    Best option is to create a filter for HC TDM.
    Multiplayer -> Server Browser -> Filter
    Set game mode to TDM
    Enter Hardcore in the "Name" field.

    P5yro4U.jpg


    If you don't get any results then their probably aren't any HC TDM servers up in your region.
    DenNassi wrote: »
    DenNassi wrote: »
    The option in multiplayer for hardcore team deathmatch is gone. My ping and settings are okay.
    I only see rush and conquer, and can see the server list and join..but these games are not hardcore..

    Is this a router problem?

    server browser issue.

    Do not think so.. I can see 100+ games and join them.
    In multiplayer -> custom games, there are only 3 options : rush,conquer and one other..but no hardcore team

    Off topic .... This discussion is on Hit Detection.

    regardless .........

    If you go to Multiplayer -> Custom Games there's "Quick Match" options for several Hardcore game modes. What's listed is always changing and is more than likely based on availability. Currently there is Conquest, Tsar Conquest, Rush and Back to Basics Conquest.

    Best option is to create a filter for HC TDM.
    Multiplayer -> Server Browser -> Filter
    Set game mode to TDM
    Enter Hardcore in the "Name" field.

    P5yro4U.jpg


    If you don't get any results then their probably aren't any HC TDM servers up in your region.

    Thanks..will try tomorrow

    Unfortnunately it doesn't work..
    Tried clearing cash.. Still no hardcore team deathmatch option in the menu

  • rock1obsta
    3803 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    The players with the spiking pings are by far the worst and cause the most issues, but its possible to have lower level packet loss (yellow packet loss icon) and still have a low stable ping displayed on the scoreboard i've tested it, i've also experienced being held by damage and stacked damage from what on the scoreboards appears to be a low latency player I don't know how much packet loss it takes before your ping starts spiking in the scoreboard but I suspect its quite a high amount.
    Also playing with minor packet loss the game just plays so much better, hit detection is near perfect no more aim desist and the game just seems so much better in sync.

    Yeah as I mentioned. "30ms avg spiking to 110ms".

    FYI console ping only updates every 5 seconds from what I recall. PC updates once a second.
    Basically, gameplay is **** because game accepts ****.

    If they kicked for garbage connections then it would be fine. The best direction at the moment would be to provide better tools to the rsp. Ping kicker was a start. But we need something that's more robust...jitter/variance/packet loss kicking. Having lower options for the rsp would be nice too.

    I mean, yeah.

    But RSP still avoids quickmatch. There is no fixing this while the public is steered away from custom (and possibly superior) experiences.

    I've given up on DICE making meaningful changes, most of the devs are apologists. (Most, not all, obviously the devs that truly understand and listen are in the minority).

    It's disheartening to voice concerns, only to be told your concerns are not a problem. Just a bunch of 40 year Olds playing Pokémon go, no way things are going to get better.

    Damn. You used to be so optimistic about changes coming to the game. I'm sorry you feel like this. Sadly more and more people see the game in this light. The BS in game just gets so old.

    Sadly, I don't think EA or DICE is ever gonna change anything until even the most loyal fans turn their back.
    They need to worry about the majority first. The biggest customer base.
    Only after the majority is satisfied should they even consider the rest.

    This ridiculous notion that they can please everyone is an impossibility.
    In case they haven't noticed, their stupid insistence on such a monumental failure is causing people to leave.

    The only acceptable answer is to let everyone's experience rely solely on their own connection.
    I mean, who the hell ever even thought their way of doing this was a good idea?

    It needs to be scrapped and redone so that the majority of the playerbase can play without these problems.

    Then they can put servers in places that don't have enough (by marketing the game in places where they knew there weren't any servers they showed how greed can destroy a company's reputation)

  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    rock1obsta wrote: »
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    The players with the spiking pings are by far the worst and cause the most issues, but its possible to have lower level packet loss (yellow packet loss icon) and still have a low stable ping displayed on the scoreboard i've tested it, i've also experienced being held by damage and stacked damage from what on the scoreboards appears to be a low latency player I don't know how much packet loss it takes before your ping starts spiking in the scoreboard but I suspect its quite a high amount.
    Also playing with minor packet loss the game just plays so much better, hit detection is near perfect no more aim desist and the game just seems so much better in sync.

    Yeah as I mentioned. "30ms avg spiking to 110ms".

    FYI console ping only updates every 5 seconds from what I recall. PC updates once a second.
    Basically, gameplay is **** because game accepts ****.

    If they kicked for garbage connections then it would be fine. The best direction at the moment would be to provide better tools to the rsp. Ping kicker was a start. But we need something that's more robust...jitter/variance/packet loss kicking. Having lower options for the rsp would be nice too.

    I mean, yeah.

    But RSP still avoids quickmatch. There is no fixing this while the public is steered away from custom (and possibly superior) experiences.

    I've given up on DICE making meaningful changes, most of the devs are apologists. (Most, not all, obviously the devs that truly understand and listen are in the minority).

    It's disheartening to voice concerns, only to be told your concerns are not a problem. Just a bunch of 40 year Olds playing Pokémon go, no way things are going to get better.

    Damn. You used to be so optimistic about changes coming to the game. I'm sorry you feel like this. Sadly more and more people see the game in this light. The BS in game just gets so old.

    Sadly, I don't think EA or DICE is ever gonna change anything until even the most loyal fans turn their back.
    They need to worry about the majority first. The biggest customer base.
    Only after the majority is satisfied should they even consider the rest.

    This ridiculous notion that they can please everyone is an impossibility.
    In case they haven't noticed, their stupid insistence on such a monumental failure is causing people to leave.

    The only acceptable answer is to let everyone's experience rely solely on their own connection.
    I mean, who the hell ever even thought their way of doing this was a good idea?

    It needs to be scrapped and redone so that the majority of the playerbase can play without these problems.

    Then they can put servers in places that don't have enough (by marketing the game in places where they knew there weren't any servers they showed how greed can destroy a company's reputation)

    My hopes are that they get a healthy dose of reality when they push their idea of comp play onto the public.

    Incursions on PC will be running 120Hz server. That's an 8.33ms tick interval. At that rate a 50ms connection plays like 100ms on pub 60Hz.

    Sirland did state on twitter there will be more server locations for Incursions. We'll see.

    If incursions falls on its face there will be one hell of a shockwave rippling through DICE HQ.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Yeah I just don't know anymore. I can't put into words just how horrible the game has played for the last hour. I don't know how connection, latency, hops, nodes, etc. work. But I have been playing shooters for a long time. And I've been playing bf1 since launch so I know what to expect when it comes to the feel and flow of this game. But the feel for me at least is off again. The matches I just played were beyond silly. Was gonna record but why bother. To me its clear as a bell. When you've got numerous connections of 150 ms in a match gameplay goes to crap, my mind will not be changed about this.
    This game was brilliant for a brief 5 days after that patch that caused all of the high pingers to cry. Man , if they would implement that play again this would get my vote as one of the best shooters ever! But as it is now, well quite frankly its mostly a chore to play.

    If Incursions does well, then we may see DICE swing the base game into that direction. Competitive play is about precision. You can't have players on the field that are 10+ frames behind the server. It just doesn't play right. And when you have players hopping on with 200+ pings, massive packet loss, variance, it's an absolute nightmare.

    At some point DICE, rather EA will come to the conclusion that the performance level of both pub and comp need to be the same. In other words the base game needs to perform at the same level. You can't have the flagship under performing.
  • oJU5T1No
    901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Yeah I just don't know anymore. I can't put into words just how horrible the game has played for the last hour. I don't know how connection, latency, hops, nodes, etc. work. But I have been playing shooters for a long time. And I've been playing bf1 since launch so I know what to expect when it comes to the feel and flow of this game. But the feel for me at least is off again. The matches I just played were beyond silly. Was gonna record but why bother. To me its clear as a bell. When you've got numerous connections of 150 ms in a match gameplay goes to crap, my mind will not be changed about this.
    This game was brilliant for a brief 5 days after that patch that caused all of the high pingers to cry. Man , if they would implement that play again this would get my vote as one of the best shooters ever! But as it is now, well quite frankly its mostly a chore to play.

    If Incursions does well, then we may see DICE swing the base game into that direction. Competitive play is about precision. You can't have players on the field that are 10+ frames behind the server. It just doesn't play right. And when you have players hopping on with 200+ pings, massive packet loss, variance, it's an absolute nightmare.

    At some point DICE, rather EA will come to the conclusion that the performance level of both pub and comp need to be the same. In other words the base game needs to perform at the same level. You can't have the flagship under performing.

    Exactly I don't see how this comp mode is gonna work the backwards netcode is too easy to abuse, you just put together a team of high pingers with high packet loss, win every gun fight with your late and bundled damage , while warping around being impossible to kill. Skill>Connection doesn't work in a game thats Connection>Skill , especially with the smaller playerbase now I think this whole comp thing is just gonna fail. Even in cod which has a bigger comp scene and playerbase the comp lobbys were mostly empty.
  • The_Jurica
    36 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Someone in that control room is out of control.
  • UrinDenialP
    143 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    so lets get this straight.

    udp sends out packets...we know udp does one of the three following things.
    it gets there
    it doesnt get there
    it gets there but out of order.

    by what your saying udp is either being used in conjunction with tcp or it is sending out instructions (udp transmitted instructions) to measure and then get the console to re send.


    that data never the less will be out of order.

    so the server reads this data and then decides that was a hit..recalculates and then decides it was a kill or more damage or a miss etc.

    still that means more delay has been added.

    and question is this.

    if i head shoot a soldier lying prone and i can see it and the console must have seen it lol...why is this info then not registering?

    why is one person being treated more fairly than another when their consoles are showing each has hit?

    not only will there be delay but say if an isp is uniformly kicking to ease congestion some of these udp instructions to ask for info to resend will be lost.

    its a flawed system if they have implement it this way

    youd be better off cutting the amount fo data or even better measuring a true figure and give the user some data which he can go to his isp with.

    i guess ea know what the isp will say?

    isp....the servers are too far away to get lower packet loss
    isp..we provide good routes.

    mine does.
    they sponsor esports

    they arent always perfect...especialy when barcelona or real adrid are playing
    champions league forget playing

    but other times its mostly good.

    id rather people stopped being opologists for the company and continually look at potential flaws int eh setup.
    taking ito account the current state of the internet.

    imo ea should spread the servers out more.
    give us more choice.
    let us choose which locations we want to play in.

    have latency caps and notify people when they have variable latency...give them evidence under this setup.
    problem eased.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    @UrinDenialP
    You are massively confusing TCP with UDP and additional behaviors coded on top of UDP. You are applying TCP's defaults on to UDP which is probably the the major issue with your interp of what's going on.

    Completely drop TCP and it's default functionality from the process and re-read my post on UDP ACK redundancy.

    I'll post a walk through tomorrow either vid of pics .... either way visual so you can follow more easily.

    If need be I can hop on TS, Vent or discord to walk you through it.
  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    @UrinDenialP
    You are massively confusing TCP with UDP and additional behaviors coded on top of UDP. You are applying TCP's defaults on to UDP which is probably the the major issue with your interp of what's going on.

    Completely drop TCP and it's default functionality from the process and re-read my post on UDP ACK redundancy.

    I'll post a walk through tomorrow either vid of pics .... either way visual so you can follow more easily.

    If need be I can hop on TS, Vent or discord to walk you through it.

    Your efforts in explaining the mechanics of these things. Are remarkable.

    Wish you had the same knowledge of the r6 netcode, as the frostbite engine.

    Me and some friends have found very interesting things in that game.

    Playing as a squad where everyone have +300ms ping. Should be a horrible experience!
    Still its the complete opposite.. 20 played games at +300ms ping against 40-60ms players. = 20 winns and a kd of 5/0-10/0!

    High ping and packet loss. Have to be the most devastating things that can happen to an online game.

    Its mind-boggling that Sony and Microsoft doesn't have any form of regulation of the players connection quality!?

    It destroyes the performance of the games sold on their platforms. And its devastating for the gameplay experience!

    People shouldn't have to exploit flaws in the game, to have a somewhat decent experience!
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited September 2017
    lizzard wrote: »
    Your efforts in explaining the mechanics of these things. Are remarkable.

    Wish you had the same knowledge of the r6 netcode, as the frostbite engine.

    Me and some friends have found very interesting things in that game.

    Playing as a squad where everyone have +300ms ping. Should be a horrible experience!
    Still its the complete opposite.. 20 played games at +300ms ping against 40-60ms players. = 20 winns and a kd of 5/0-10/0!

    High ping and packet loss. Have to be the most devastating things that can happen to an online game.

    Its mind-boggling that Sony and Microsoft doesn't have any form of regulation of the players connection quality!?

    It destroyes the performance of the games sold on their platforms. And its devastating for the gameplay experience!

    People shouldn't have to exploit flaws in the game, to have a somewhat decent experience!

    I'm working on some images to help explain hit registration and the difference between hitscan and projectile. Plus a few to explain tick rates and what they really mean.

    But for a quick reply, Hitscan and low server->client tick rates give the majority of FPS games that solid hit reg feel. Hitscan plays a major role.
  • misisipiRivrRat
    807 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Ughh,
    What a mess. Not only is hit detection off for me today, but so is everything. I'm just here to vent since my lady friend doesn't understand my frustration. First ,my latency has went up since the new patch went live. I was around 35-40ms but now 65-70 which i s fine because thats where I used to be a couple of patches ago. Then the gameplay today. Where do I start? I think the server browser is not working at the moment. I've joined at least 6 or 7 hardcore servers the past couple of days but I don't have hardcore in my search options. And at the end of most matches of CQ today it would show that Monte Grappe was loading, only it didn't. My friend saw this too. Many ,many times I'm killed today by what some of you have called bundled damage. Also many times killed by a new shotgun with slugs from far away. You'll have to take my word for it. Me with 0% health gone getting one shotted from distance by this shotgun. Then this other guy with his effing 125-250ms fluctuating connection comes around a corner, we both fire, I hit him in the head, he runs away with 100% health while I'm dead. I went 1-6 against his ****!
    So then I get in a match with planes and think I'll try and gun one down, ya know, work on the unlock. Well first I softened em up with the aa and then line up the sights of my trusty mg15 and bam! I'm sniped. Or bam and I die of a grenade. Over and over. I'd damage the plane only to have a teammate pilot finish him off. All I could do was laugh. Oh and then I would fire at the plane and I would see the damage indicator but no points. Is this a bug too? I've got video of it if it makes a difference.
    So what did I get while playing 5 matches of CQ? Well I got 3 lousy kills with the airburst motar! Pretty funny actually. Luckily I had a couple of Dragons Milk beers to keep me calm. Great beer by the way. A stout aged in bourbon barrels. Sorry rant over.
  • rock1obsta
    3803 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Ughh,
    What a mess. Not only is hit detection off for me today, but so is everything. I'm just here to vent since my lady friend doesn't understand my frustration. First ,my latency has went up since the new patch went live. I was around 35-40ms but now 65-70 which i s fine because thats where I used to be a couple of patches ago. Then the gameplay today. Where do I start? I think the server browser is not working at the moment. I've joined at least 6 or 7 hardcore servers the past couple of days but I don't have hardcore in my search options. And at the end of most matches of CQ today it would show that Monte Grappe was loading, only it didn't. My friend saw this too. Many ,many times I'm killed today by what some of you have called bundled damage. Also many times killed by a new shotgun with slugs from far away. You'll have to take my word for it. Me with 0% health gone getting one shotted from distance by this shotgun. Then this other guy with his effing 125-250ms fluctuating connection comes around a corner, we both fire, I hit him in the head, he runs away with 100% health while I'm dead. I went 1-6 against his ****!
    So then I get in a match with planes and think I'll try and gun one down, ya know, work on the unlock. Well first I softened em up with the aa and then line up the sights of my trusty mg15 and bam! I'm sniped. Or bam and I die of a grenade. Over and over. I'd damage the plane only to have a teammate pilot finish him off. All I could do was laugh. Oh and then I would fire at the plane and I would see the damage indicator but no points. Is this a bug too? I've got video of it if it makes a difference.
    So what did I get while playing 5 matches of CQ? Well I got 3 lousy kills with the airburst motar! Pretty funny actually. Luckily I had a couple of Dragons Milk beers to keep me calm. Great beer by the way. A stout aged in bourbon barrels. Sorry rant over.

    I've read many many posts like yours the past few months.
    This is the precise reason the old patch from June needs to be brought back.
    Enough of this garbage where people with trash internet are back to getting favors again.
    I sincerely hope DICE/EA gets their **** together, or if they wont, then I would hope the majority of the players leave and let the trash internet guys keep it.
  • RichieDagger13
    69 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Are people bothering to post videos anymore, or is it just accepted that it's often wonky?
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Are people bothering to post videos anymore, or is it just accepted that it's often wonky?

    Depends on the issue. Most "wtf" moments have been documented.
  • UrinDenialP
    143 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    @UrinDenialP
    You are massively confusing TCP with UDP and additional behaviors coded on top of UDP. You are applying TCP's defaults on to UDP which is probably the the major issue with your interp of what's going on.

    Completely drop TCP and it's default functionality from the process and re-read my post on UDP ACK redundancy.

    I'll post a walk through tomorrow either vid of pics .... either way visual so you can follow more easily.

    If need be I can hop on TS, Vent or discord to walk you through it.

    Your efforts in explaining the mechanics of these things. Are remarkable.

    Wish you had the same knowledge of the r6 netcode, as the frostbite engine.

    Me and some friends have found very interesting things in that game.

    Playing as a squad where everyone have +300ms ping. Should be a horrible experience!
    Still its the complete opposite.. 20 played games at +300ms ping against 40-60ms players. = 20 winns and a kd of 5/0-10/0!

    High ping and packet loss. Have to be the most devastating things that can happen to an online game.

    Its mind-boggling that Sony and Microsoft doesn't have any form of regulation of the players connection quality!?

    It destroyes the performance of the games sold on their platforms. And its devastating for the gameplay experience!

    People shouldn't have to exploit flaws in the game, to have a somewhat decent experience!

    agree.
    ive been in games with 700ms variable latency for one player...loads of 100ms+ players and the majority below 100ms
    it plays the same alround.

    that makes me think its to do with your own packets being transmitted and how and if they get there.

    btw if acks are being sent by udp..they are at the same risk as normal udp packets...ie...not all will be getting there.
  • oJU5T1No
    901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    The main issues the aim desist and held by damage are difficult to prove without showing controller inputs side by side, stacked damage is aswell without a 360 view to prove theres only 1 guy shooting you. The debunk squad would be all over it.

    I did capture being killed by an invisible player, the invisible players have made a come back with the recent patch. http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/oJU5T1No/video/36626767
  • denjoga
    607 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    The main issues the aim desist and held by damage are difficult to prove without showing controller inputs side by side, stacked damage is aswell without a 360 view to prove theres only 1 guy shooting you. The debunk squad would be all over it.

    I did capture being killed by an invisible player, the invisible players have made a come back with the recent patch. http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/oJU5T1No/video/36626767

    Without the net graph and a detailed report on your internet route quality, you can't blame the game. It's probably due to your own bloated nodes and hops.

    Just kidding! lol
    Enjoy it while it lasts.

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