Is weapons 2.0 and old conquest system still happening?

Comments

  • MarxistDictator
    3115 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Yeah I don't think I ever disagreed that there weren't outlier guns in the current balance patch. I'm just in agreement with the premise of the update, which is to improve player agency and enable us to feel like an individual contribution can be meaningful. Target saturation is real in this game and it's a large part of the general campiness of multiplayer. I've been enjoying TTK a lot more because there's more movement less limp noodles waiting for kills to come to them.

    I also am not really seeing medic outgunned there, as I'm continuing to play him most of the time (I have like class rank 20 for medic to like 12 as my next highest in the CTE) and I'm just not really seeing it. Auto revolver still mops the floor with assaults so I don't really feel like he's lagging behind. I'm also not opposed to more buffs coming his way if other people feel that strongly but I'm trying to say is that it's really not the end of the world.

    I'm not saying the new TTK is perfect, only that it's an improvement to the gameplay we have now. Which is a lot of campy slow gameplay where people deadlock and spam explosives as a result.
  • bran1986
    2843 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Yeah I don't think I ever disagreed that there weren't outlier guns in the current balance patch. I'm just in agreement with the premise of the update, which is to improve player agency and enable us to feel like an individual contribution can be meaningful. Target saturation is real in this game and it's a large part of the general campiness of multiplayer. I've been enjoying TTK a lot more because there's more movement less limp noodles waiting for kills to come to them.

    I also am not really seeing medic outgunned there, as I'm continuing to play him most of the time (I have like class rank 20 for medic to like 12 as my next highest in the CTE) and I'm just not really seeing it. Auto revolver still mops the floor with assaults so I don't really feel like he's lagging behind. I'm also not opposed to more buffs coming his way if other people feel that strongly but I'm trying to say is that it's really not the end of the world.

    I'm not saying the new TTK is perfect, only that it's an improvement to the gameplay we have now. Which is a lot of campy slow gameplay where people deadlock and spam explosives as a result.

    The thing is I'm not completely against it, but being a work in progress I thought we would be further along in the tweaking of this. There really hasn't been anything changed since the bipod changes back in September.
  • AaronTheZombie
    575 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited November 14
    Changing a basic thing on the game such as TTK more than a year after its release doesn't say much about the developer team - only that they don't even know what to do with their own product.
    It really is bizarre what little confidence they have in the decisions they make. Just pick something and stick with it, don't constantly nerf and buff things to appease the crybabies. You'd think a 15 year old company would have learned this by now.
  • Sixclicks
    1530 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I'd rather the whole weapons change thing was completely dropped. But if less aggro scouts and more hill-humpers is what you want, then so be it. It doesn't even make much sense to use the M.95 anymore when the RSC also kills in 2 hits, has a faster fire rate, and will now kill in 2 hits out to 70 meters.
  • Dogwoggle11
    1576 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited November 14
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    I'd rather the whole weapons change thing was completely dropped. But if less aggro scouts and more hill-humpers is what you want, then so be it. It doesn't even make much sense to use the M.95 anymore when the RSC also kills in 2 hits, has a faster fire rate, and will now kill in 2 hits out to 70 meters.

    Too many people crying about Scouts led to this. They don't want anyone to get them out of their run and gun wet dream.

    I'd prefer that they bring kill trades back, something that actually makes sense, than implementing an incomplete TTK shift.
  • MarxistDictator
    3115 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I'd still rather have them work to produce the game they ultimately wanted to make (since these are closer to the damage values the game originally had before it was shown to EA) since the sweet spot and the rest of it were balanced better in this mock up.

    Then some EA rep said it didn't 'feel like WW1' as if military weapons of the age were not using excessively higher powered cartridges compared to today (and regular soldiers wearing no armor beyond badly designed helmets).

    But they never powered down the Scout rifles so its pretty obvious where the problem started. And now in the current game we have a couple automatic guns being used to the exclusion of all other guns in the game simply because they're the only ones that feel competitive to most players.

    Just because it's the system we know doesn't mean it's not chokablock with issues. New TTK dives into the heart of the problem and can only really be faulted for being overly ambitious at this point in the game's life. But it's still closer to the original design intention of the studio so I hope it doesn't go the way of ammo 2.0.
  • SirSpectacle
    261 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I'd still rather have them work to produce the game they ultimately wanted to make (since these are closer to the damage values the game originally had before it was shown to EA) since the sweet spot and the rest of it were balanced better in this mock up.

    Then some EA rep said it didn't 'feel like WW1'
    as if military weapons of the age were not using excessively higher powered cartridges compared to today (and regular soldiers wearing no armor beyond badly designed helmets).

    But they never powered down the Scout rifles so its pretty obvious where the problem started. And now in the current game we have a couple automatic guns being used to the exclusion of all other guns in the game simply because they're the only ones that feel competitive to most players.

    Just because it's the system we know doesn't mean it's not chokablock with issues. New TTK dives into the heart of the problem and can only really be faulted for being overly ambitious at this point in the game's life. But it's still closer to the original design intention of the studio so I hope it doesn't go the way of ammo 2.0.

    {{citation needed}}
  • DeeShinyGoat
    57 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Hey guys,


    Thanks for discussing this in the thread. It's really insightful and got me thinking about the few things. I remembered now why they introduced it to begin with:

    From what the devs said in the original post on Reddit in response to a thread asking if they plan to do anything to prevent all weapons from feeling similar and only having a few go to options, the reason behind the changes considered was to give more authenticity to gun types and individual weapons. To break the cycle of ''one or two suitable weapons per class'' or ''one weapon that outguns them all in most cases'' e.g. bar or hellriegel.
    It also gives devs more flexibility moving forward to ensure not all weapons feel and handle the same. This was a big issue in BF4 - huge arsenal of weapons, but most felt the same. And most handled the same. And then you had 1 or 2 only that people actually used.

    I mean, you had AEK and M416, there was the ACE too. These were really the only three options for medic, for example. Out of what, 30 weapons or so?
  • trip1ex
    1374 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited November 14

    Changing a basic thing on the game such as TTK more than a year after its release doesn't say much about the developer team - only that they don't even know what to do with their own product.

    Yep. Also see putting Legacy Conquest in CTE a year later.

    Even the ADAD spam fix attempts ...shows they really don't have a feel for when something is pretty good or not.

    It's almost like a different team with less experience in a different country more connected to the whims of social media are in charge of patching the game now.
  • trip1ex
    1374 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited November 14
    Hey guys,


    Thanks for discussing this in the thread. It's really insightful and got me thinking about the few things. I remembered now why they introduced it to begin with:

    From what the devs said in the original post on Reddit in response to a thread asking if they plan to do anything to prevent all weapons from feeling similar and only having a few go to options, the reason behind the changes considered was to give more authenticity to gun types and individual weapons. To break the cycle of ''one or two suitable weapons per class'' or ''one weapon that outguns them all in most cases'' e.g. bar or hellriegel.
    It also gives devs more flexibility moving forward to ensure not all weapons feel and handle the same. This was a big issue in BF4 - huge arsenal of weapons, but most felt the same. And most handled the same. And then you had 1 or 2 only that people actually used.

    I mean, you had AEK and M416, there was the ACE too. These were really the only three options for medic, for example. Out of what, 30 weapons or so?

    Yeah that's what they said their goal was with the TTK change idea. They wanted to make room to put in new Support guns in future DLC that were unique.

    But ...I feel like the weapons in BF1 are already a lot more unique than the ones in BF4. And trying to rearrange something so fundamental a year later is just going to mess up the entire game.
  • Dogwoggle11
    1576 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    But if you buff the least used weapons (MP18, for example) AND you also buff the go to weapons (Hellriegel, BAR), you are esentially in the same spot.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    1298 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    As I say in every thread of this sort, drastic changes to the game after the full year of life cycle won't bring anything good to it. It's just a pathetic attempt to please those whiners and "not muh bf4" personalities.
  • HuwJarz
    1894 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    trip1ex wrote: »

    Changing a basic thing on the game such as TTK more than a year after its release doesn't say much about the developer team - only that they don't even know what to do with their own product.

    Yep. Also see putting Legacy Conquest in CTE a year later.

    Even the ADAD spam fix attempts ...shows they really don't have a feel for when something is pretty good or not.

    It's almost like a different team with less experience in a different country more connected to the whims of social media are in charge of patching the game now.

    Tha is the truth.....Well said.
  • CH1R0N83
    478 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    But if you buff the least used weapons (MP18, for example) AND you also buff the go to weapons (Hellriegel, BAR), you are esentially in the same spot.

    This is what I'm not really understanding about this TTK business. I may be missing something here but it seems to me that if you buff everything across the board you are essentially back at square one.
  • theONEFORCE
    1368 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Because just having guns that are good everywhere isn't enough if they also don't outclass the close range specialist guns too. Muh medic. What's a class shooter again


    In that thread I posted two people whined about the medic with no justification as to why, should go to show the people who actually did play it and enjoyed the medic know he's not becoming obsolete any time soon.

    Though this was obvious from his gadgets alone

    Medic is just as good in the CTE as in the base game and better because of the range buffs. I wish people wouldn't cry about things they don't understand.
  • MarxistDictator
    3115 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited November 14
    Bullets are bullets in this game there isn't some folder that says 'bar bullet damage' or whatever. So it's obvious the first pass would consist of each projectile recieving a buff.

    Its also true that just buffing some guns and leaving others wouldn't fix it on its own either. Like if they buffed the Lewis damage but kept the BAR the same why would you ever use the BAR again if it didn't retain some kind of TTK advantage by comparison? It'd be very weak by comparison.

    But the dice developers had noticed that certain guns in the new TTK make that necessary already. Like the MG 14/17

    But the buffed MP18 is much better than a buffed Hellriegel because there is a huge difference in 26.5 and 28 damage and the 4 hit damage range on the MP18 is over twice as long.
  • Dogwoggle11
    1576 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited November 14
    If that were true, then MP18 would be the new meta for Assault, and the Hellriegel would be left behind. Ultimately, it's the same scenario but with a change in which weapon is used the most.

    What we want is to have different viable choices. Right now, we don't have that - but a buff for all automatic weapons won't change that, it will be all the same.
    Because just having guns that are good everywhere isn't enough if they also don't outclass the close range specialist guns too. Muh medic. What's a class shooter again


    In that thread I posted two people whined about the medic with no justification as to why, should go to show the people who actually did play it and enjoyed the medic know he's not becoming obsolete any time soon.

    Though this was obvious from his gadgets alone

    Medic is just as good in the CTE as in the base game and better because of the range buffs. I wish people wouldn't cry about things they don't understand.

    So other players don't understand, but you do. That being the case, please, enlighten us.
  • MarxistDictator
    3115 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    So the game is worse when more weapons are appealing to use? Heard it here first.

    And medic isn't actually feeling than worse off because there's a lot more to the game than just automatic weapon TTK. Being a medic still has all the advantages of being a medic. And being able to fire them at faster fire rates without worry of shots missing due to spread is a buff to their performance as well.

    Its another one of those things that's greater than the sum of its parts, because automatic weapon TTK is far from the only factor in the game (and not even guaranteed for automatic weapons since both SMGs and LMGs have initial inaccuracy when ADS).
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