In order to PTFO you need good K/D and thats the ultimate stat

Comments

  • HuwJarz
    1894 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    @HuwJarz I feel that we are in agreement in the general sense, I just object to the idea of "strong" correlation between individual skill and win %. If it was so, you could use win % as a proxy for skill. Having gone over stats of hundreds of players, I don't find this plausible. Additionally, I don't think you could look up the stats of an arbitrary player and based on win % alone make a serious statement about personal skill.
    .
    Furthermore, the practical value range for skill (the gap) is far wider than that of win %; skill typically varies between 150 and 700, whereas win % gap varies between 40(0) and 70(0) (normalized). (There are outliers of course, no need for @ProLegion_exor to educate me on this ;).) So due to this compression, you'd be hard pressed to make a comparison between players of 50% and 55%, or 65% and 70% win percentage. If anything, only huge differences carry some predictive value, and even then the other factors may well dominate and invalidate the prediction.
    .
    I guess that's enough nitpicking for tonight.

    I agree with you. The narrow nature of the win% bands makes it even harder to use as a proxy. In they debate I have been involved in about the correlation between K/D ratio and skill, that was why I decide to use MVP as a proxy. I anticipated someone making the argument that you have made.

    Tell, me - you clearly have an understanding of statistics. The fact that yiu are referencing normalisation and outliers tells me you have some good base knowledge.

    Answer me this. If there were NO negative K/D players in the top 500 MVP players in te world AT all. What conclusion would you draw from that?
  • MachoFantast1c0
    395 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    HuwJarz wrote: »
    If there were NO negative K/D players in the top 500 MVP players in the world AT all. What conclusion would you draw from that?

    Pretty much that exceptional players are exceptional across the board. But continuing on this line, I'd venture a guess that MVP percentage has a strong correlation with individual skill. At least far better than win percentage, even though MVP is somewhat boostable. Medicking in small modes (Domination and Frontlines in particular) is my recipe for bringing home those daily scraps, and if I recall correctly, I MVPd four of my last six full Frontlines matches, even some against full platoon squads. However, you can't phone it in, you have to aggressively PTFO, heal, revive and kill with a good KD (>2 is necessary for you to be alive enough to cash in the necessary points for MVP). Then again, all those factors are associated with skill in the broad sense, even if you'd lack raw mechanical skill (non-top-notch reaction time and accuracy).
    .
    I'd also like to point out that looking at highly biased data sets is not conducive to drawing statistically valid conclusions that apply generally. For those you need to look at either the full data set or at least a randomized representative sample across the whole player base. Without access to such data, this is just speculation and anecdotal cherry picking. As DICE has all that data, they could easily settle these debates by running simple regression analysis for a few interesting variable combinations. According to Reddit, they are "constantly" doing that (eg. whether scout density has an effect on team win probability).

  • disposalist
    5144 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    As DICE has all that data, they could easily settle these debates by running simple regression analysis for a few interesting variable combinations. According to Reddit, they are "constantly" doing that (eg. whether scout density has an effect on team win probability).
    I don't doubt they are constantly doing the analysis. I'm pretty damned sure that they incorporate a lot of non-statistical (marketing...) considerations when deciding what is 'best' for the game, though.
  • lucidstorm
    1662 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited November 14
    ok it can be an indicator, just like many, not the ultimate, u can win by sacrifice, or u can also win and have a high KD,
    btw. if have high KD it means u might have been batter than ur enemy, or that u camped. Anyway playing against terrible players (high KD) is not so cool. Find yourself better enemies
  • st00gah
    56 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I would remove ALL stats from the game/player profile. Summary stats after ending a match are enough. Rest is just... pointless.

    But when it comes to stats I agree with OP. K/D is one of the most important ones because player with higher k/d will do everyghing better than player with low k/d. It's simple, no matter who you play, what's your role... you will do it better when you are alive. So yeah... higher k/d = player more often alive than dead = playes doing more usefull stuff than lying dead. Dead medic won't do anything usefull... Even players doing nothing else but killing are most of the time more valuable than average ptfo supports/meds because without killing you won't win the game no matter how hard you ptfo. Don't fool yourselfs thinking that support hiding behind a tree and throwing ammo, firing mortars (getting 1 kill /3m) is more valuable than assault which won't heal you, won't throw you ammo but kills i.e. entire enemy squad. Yes a skilled lone wolf assault is more valuable for the team than whole squad of ptfo... unskilled players. Most just won't admit it. "You won't kill anyone without ammo!" Yeah right... A fresh spawned player has enough ammo and supplies to kill a few squads and a tank. Ability to kill the enemy without dying is the most important skill in this game. Anyone can just stand somewhere and cap a flag ot throw a med pack.
    And bad players can ptfo, cap, heal, resupply when others are killing the enemy. It's called carrying a game. Good players while killing the enemy are carrying ptfo players on their backs. And most of the time they also ptfo.
    I'm an average player myself (sometimes have good games, sometimes bad) but I won't pretend that I'm as usfull as frontline assault with 3 k/d when I'm throwing ammo pack at camping snipers.
  • M16a3_is_Haram
    42 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    People who care about stats in a game are seeking validation of their worth, because in the real world they are are deeply insecure and unnoticed
  • FookDat
    509 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited November 14
    I do not think k/d ratio is that important, it DOES help having a team with some players all about k/d ratio. But having good medics is more important. I have been playing since before Battlefield 1942 even Codename Eagle the first game they made over 15 years of Battlefield! Medics and Support are the best kits for teamwork in this franchise always has been. Revives saves tickets. I have many times had horrible k/d ratio but that is because I spend a lot of time just resupplying or reviving my team mates but I still end up in the top of the charts and still win. I revived someone 18 times in 1 round and they were bragging about their k/d ratio... while complaining mine sucked... REALLY! you would not have your awesome k/d ratio if it wasnt for your medics!

    Only thing that gets me is reviving 20 guys then I get shot and no one revives me!

    Offense gets the glory but defense wins the game
  • lucidstorm
    1662 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    st00gah wrote: »
    I would remove ALL stats from the game/player profile. Summary stats after ending a match are enough. Rest is just... pointless.

    nah keep them, this game already lacks features not need to remove 1 more

  • trip1ex
    1374 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited November 14
    You just need a working W key to PTFO. ON pc at least. UNfortunately the W key of most players is broke. It either doesn't work at all and thus the player can't move up and push. Or it's stuck and is always on and thus the player is stuck running from flag to flag Nascar-style around the map.
  • lucidstorm
    1662 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited November 14
    @triplex yeah a team that attacks at once on a spot is almost unstoppable, at some point it would turn the tides, however it is good to camp defend some backwards flags too by some players, I know camping is boring, but 1-2 guys should have that duty
  • V2Face
    1814 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Can someone just close this thread already. It’s non constructive at best and incredibly toxic for the community as proven by the other threads.
  • lucidstorm
    1662 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited November 14
    thread is good - for a discussion, I like it here so far no wars
  • lucidstorm
    1662 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited November 14
    Only thing that gets me is reviving 20 guys then I get shot and no one revives me!
    play with squad mates, maybe u are dying on a spot hard to revive
    anyways medic is not used that often in this game, was best class in previous BF, now is nerfed
  • munkt0r
    2317 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    deja vu...
  • HardAimedKid
    10237 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    KD is king!
  • HuwJarz
    1894 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Toshevbg wrote: »
    I`ve been reading this forum a lot in my spare time and I just cant explain how someguys wants KD stats removed and
    continue to to have absurd discussion when points>KD in conquest!

    This is absurd and lets make some things straight. You can scope me if you want toshev88 on xbox. I play assault
    and medic.

    I just keep hearing how PTFO is the most important thing and bla bla bla. The game already rewards scrubs you cant shoot
    with tons of points for riding the wave and doing pointless supplies. The only good thing I can respect are good Medics but
    I will respect a Medic if he can actually hold his own in a fight. Scrubs with KD below 0.8 are just normal/average players who should
    not be in Top 5 by any means.

    1st point: In order to captute the flag you do understand that the good KD guy has to go there and kill the enemies so you can
    get your points? The good KD player then engages enemies outside the CAP zone so scrubs can get their points?

    2nd The good KD player can actually go on his own and cap a flag with 2 or 3 more enemies there and turn the tide of the game.

    3rd To actually get to objectives you do understand that you have to walk/run 100/200 meters and someone has to kill the guys
    so you can go and cap the flag? Dropping puches and ammo wont do the trick. Someone has to engage and shoot and hope that
    someone will actually hepl him in a gun fight.

    In my opinion the game rewards too few for kills. A kill should get 200 points because thats the most important thing in the game.
    Numerous times I have gone to flags I kill 2/3 guys and then I dont hide in a CORNER to get points so I can prove that a negative KD can get
    MVP. I actually patrol and try to kill and a lot of times I DIE trying to hold the flag not to hide

    So what happens I kill 3 guys and I am alive for 30% of the CAP and I get - 400 points
    The wave raiding assault/Medic doesnt kill nobody hides in a corner behind a crate and gets 700 points on my back. How is
    this fair?

    So stop trying to hide behind PTFO . Learn to protect yourself and do your role and thats playing your class and killing enemies. Dont go for EMPTY Scores
    because lets face it

    SUPPORT= Empty Scores from ressuplying 90% of the times. You can get 200 scores on the first cap when someone fires his pistol for 8 bullets and your resupply him.

    BAD K/D Medics= They do stupid revives sometimes because they dont care about them dying so they run out of cover get themselves killed and revive you on top of a gas granade and you both die.

    P.S Appreciate the great K/D guys because if you win a game thats because of them.
    P.**** The 7-1 guys for 30 minutes are very rare usually the hill humpers have stats like 8/6 or 10/7. The really good snipers that
    stay out of sigh they actually move a lot and if they get 30-2 as a sniper with low points I can respect that. He killed 30 people and
    probably saved your life on more then one occasion with his sniping. The 10/15 guy with tons of points from riding waves above him
    did nothing good. He rode the wave behind gun slingers and then felt good that he outscored and awesome sniper who if he wants
    will actually destroy him in points and etc if he chooses assault or medic

    Just my two cents.

    You must be really fun of parties, and girls must be all over you. Because you know, KDR.

    Maybe, but he is right.....
  • Pinnedurass123
    22 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I'm having trouble understanding OP. I don't have a great kd by any means but playing role, and capping/defending flags on top of spotting enemies usually ends me in top 3 players in lobby.
  • st00gah
    56 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    FookDat wrote: »
    I do not think k/d ratio is that important, it DOES help having a team with some players all about k/d ratio. But having good medics is more important. I have been playing since before Battlefield 1942 even Codename Eagle the first game they made over 15 years of Battlefield! Medics and Support are the best kits for teamwork in this franchise always has been. Revives saves tickets. I have many times had horrible k/d ratio but that is because I spend a lot of time just resupplying or reviving my team mates but I still end up in the top of the charts and still win. I revived someone 18 times in 1 round and they were bragging about their k/d ratio... while complaining mine sucked... REALLY! you would not have your awesome k/d ratio if it wasnt for your medics!

    Only thing that gets me is reviving 20 guys then I get shot and no one revives me!

    Offense gets the glory but defense wins the game

    No. You can win without medics just by killing the enemy more efficient. You won't win when the enemy is decisively outkilling your team no matter how many medics you have. Medics matter most if the teams are pretty much equally skilled. If not then your meds will just die like the rest and whoever they will revive it will be just a free kill for the enemy. Killing the enemy is the most important thing. Not reviving your dead teammates. When you have to revive a teammate thn you are already at a disadvantage. Reviving is important but killing enemy is more important. No matter how much points you get and how well you ptfo if you can't kill the enemy you won't win the game (most of the time). Don't forget more skilled in killing players are also more effective at other things. Skilled medic will revive more dead teammates because he won't just die when the enemy shows up. He will fight, he will kill and then he will revive. It always boils down to who is better at killing the enemy. It's that simple.
  • lucidstorm
    1662 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited November 16
    medics are not that important, flags and control is, keep pressure on the spots at fullt health, block the flow, prevent enemies from moving to position
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