Hit Detection

Comments

  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    rock1obsta wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    rock1obsta wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    rock1obsta wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    mmarkweII wrote: »
    mmarkweII wrote: »
    Please, dice, EA, somebody give us a legitimate way to play in low ping lobbies.

    There is a way. It is the RSP. Rent your own server. Problem solved. I won't go into the Why's and why not blah blah. :)

    Looks like it's going around again. Must be a full moon, even though 2 DICE titles had updates this week, and updates usually cause issues.....wait a week or so to calm down, but yeah, blame the game for the lack of understanding of how it works.

    Wow! So you are saying everyone that has issues with the game are ignorant? Dice updates cause issues...at least you got that right.

    I see you're still putting words in my mouth and misinterpreting what was actually said. GG.

    Not at all, you say these things to insinuate that the people complaining are stupid and don't have a valid argument. You and vball work in tandem to discredit people that say anything negative about high ping players. Don't you think it's about time you stopped?

    Not really. Only ask for proof.....something you haven't provided. You're just discrediting yourself

    There is proof.
    Mischkag. Page 57. High pingers have an advantage.
    I cannot fathom how you 2 can possibly ignore the dev responsible for this exact mechanic, confirming the advantage.

    Proof, how about him saying that the difference between 130ms ping and 60, or there are plenty more disadvantages, or srv side hit detection, or high ping doesn't ruin servers...you hold on one specific comment where he says something wasn't good yet you throw the baby with the bathwater for all the rest.

    Besides you have no clue how it plays....you won't play with 200ms ping and see how much of an advatage it is.

    I won't dispute any of that other stuff, it's not my main point.
    The thing that I couldn't understand is your stubborn insistence that high ping has no effect on servers.
    The other things are also surely present, and besides, my argument was never that high ping is the only thing causing problems.
    It was the constant denials of it's existence all together and the eagerness with which you're hair trigger quick to jump all over someone's internet or ask for a vid.

    Is there a vid you can post showing these disadvantages? (I don't really expect one, it's purely rhetorical)
    Whether they have disadvantages or not, their presence still has a direct contributing role in a crappy experience for the others.

    When enough people have the same problems under the same set of circumstances, a direct correlation cannot be denied.

    Understand I'm not picking a fight, or taking jabs.
    Just trying to understand your vehement denial of any problems caused by an abundance of high pingers, especially in the same server.

    How about you do this for me. Explain how high ping destroys servers?

    I have always stated there are issues, but I am not going to point to a demograph of players and say this is it when smart people already tested this and said it's not the case. Even the dev that you constantly reference said that.

    I'm not an IT guy, I'm a car guy. I can't possibly explain how an abundance of high pingers in one server cause craziness.
    I'm gonna throw out my interpretation though.

    Say you have 10 ppl in a US server from places all over the planet.
    Now, based on Revs and Kings descriptions, the signal sent from players consoles moves at light speed, right?
    The further from the server, the longer the info takes to get there. Then, it's gotta show it on screen for all players in the vicinity of the particular person.
    Multiply all those different distances and the time difference they all represent as opposed to those of us who play in our own region.
    All of that time difference added up together seems like it's messing up the servers timing for everyone, since now the lag comp kicks in and actually delays the low ping/in region players message to the server in order to give the high pingers a fighting chance.

    This causes problems for us who play in region and have decent internet cuz we gotta pick up the slack for those who don't.

    It was like this in 3, 4, & now 1.

    This way of doing things must be eliminated. If someone has potato internet or lives too far from the server, that's a them problem. Or should be.
    People with good internet should never even know someone with crap internet has joined the server; all the issues should only stay with that person while not affecting good internet at all.
    Sadly, DICE is insisting on this garbage way of internet interactivity rather than Lett in ng each person's internet determine only their own experience, or at the very least, minimally affect everyone else's.

    The server doesn't wait for a reply. If a player doesn't send data in the given time it puts a null (no value) there. This is why having really high latency sucks cause one second they are running away and the next they are dead in one frame....cause the server has a claimed kill but no data so it just has to go with what it had last.

    But that is not how it plays out in reality..
    What's causing the "bad connections hard to kill issue"?
    bad coding? Bad servers?

    Playing with a high ping or a bad connection should be a struggle, if the game worked like its supposed to.

    But as it have been since the release.
    Its the opposite! Playing with a stable lowping connection is a struggle!

    As it seems, both bf1 and r6s have really bad servers. Atleast on console..

    The updates for r6s is now at a minimum of 15gigs.
    And guess what? The day a new update is released, and the day after. The gameplay is nearly flawless! No highpingers.. No fluctuating ping players..
    Two days after an update, the madness starts again!
    People with crazy fluctuating ping..
    Bulletsponges..
    Out of sync gameplay..
    Missing sounds..
    Headshots not registering.. Etc etc.

    What's causing it?

    Separation of players due to dl speed?

    Fresh started servers? (If so, why is the gameplay just as bad after a server maintenance?)

    And why is it that every time, there is someone that the entire team are having issues with in gunfights. There ping is jumping like crazy. And they are from France, Mexico, middle east, Portuguese, etc..

    Is it a coincidence that every time players like that is in an r6s server. The server icon starts to flash reed after a couple of rounds!?

    Mixing players with bad connection, with players with good connection. Is going to affect the gameplay experience negatively for the players with good connections!

    That is unacceptable in a quality wieew, when people are paying money for an fun experience.

    Again having high latency doesn't mean you have a bad connection. Why do you keep associating the two? I've seen plenty of videos on here where people say "I have low stable connection and look game sucks". Only to see the packet loss and variation icons complementing their wonderful 50ms latency.

    As I stated before having a bad connection doesn't make a person hard to kill....i have had a bad connection and all I did well was dying instantaneously. Heck you saw even HuwJarz vid posted...yup didn't seem like a smooth experience.

    I figured you didn't watch the Battlenonsense vid I posted in my post since that would answer all your rhetorical questions. You would see how bad programming...not high ping can cause ALL the issues you stated.

    But hey blame the sound...no gun at start...inconsistent fall damage...etc etc on high ping. Not very logical but if it makes you feel better then have at it.

    No Ofcorse it cant be that players fluctuating between 150-580-150-2800-240-3400-150-240ms, have a bad connection!
    Ooooohhhhh nooo god forbid to draw such conclusions based of their pingwalues... When those walues are clearly showing how bad their connection really is!

    I don't say, that games doesn't have any issues regarding low ping VS low ping!
    Sometimes there is someone with a 20ms ping, that constantly sponges bullets!
    Having a shot at you when its impossible on your screen. Etc etc..

    But since we can't see opponents packet loss in the scoreboard. Its kind of hard to put the blame on that guys connection!

    A highpinger.. Or a player with wildly fluctuating ping on the other hand. That is something we all can see instantly!

    Your trying to argue about the dead parrot actually being alive, and just taking a nap..
    When everyone clearly can see that the parrot is chopped to bits and putt under water!
    And guess what... The parrot isn't breathing!!!

    But hey, continue to argue and try to convince us that its actually still alive and healthy..

    Guess we're all to stupid to see it...
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    rock1obsta wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    rock1obsta wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    rock1obsta wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    mmarkweII wrote: »
    mmarkweII wrote: »
    Please, dice, EA, somebody give us a legitimate way to play in low ping lobbies.

    There is a way. It is the RSP. Rent your own server. Problem solved. I won't go into the Why's and why not blah blah. :)

    Looks like it's going around again. Must be a full moon, even though 2 DICE titles had updates this week, and updates usually cause issues.....wait a week or so to calm down, but yeah, blame the game for the lack of understanding of how it works.

    Wow! So you are saying everyone that has issues with the game are ignorant? Dice updates cause issues...at least you got that right.

    I see you're still putting words in my mouth and misinterpreting what was actually said. GG.

    Not at all, you say these things to insinuate that the people complaining are stupid and don't have a valid argument. You and vball work in tandem to discredit people that say anything negative about high ping players. Don't you think it's about time you stopped?

    Not really. Only ask for proof.....something you haven't provided. You're just discrediting yourself

    There is proof.
    Mischkag. Page 57. High pingers have an advantage.
    I cannot fathom how you 2 can possibly ignore the dev responsible for this exact mechanic, confirming the advantage.

    Proof, how about him saying that the difference between 130ms ping and 60, or there are plenty more disadvantages, or srv side hit detection, or high ping doesn't ruin servers...you hold on one specific comment where he says something wasn't good yet you throw the baby with the bathwater for all the rest.

    Besides you have no clue how it plays....you won't play with 200ms ping and see how much of an advatage it is.

    I won't dispute any of that other stuff, it's not my main point.
    The thing that I couldn't understand is your stubborn insistence that high ping has no effect on servers.
    The other things are also surely present, and besides, my argument was never that high ping is the only thing causing problems.
    It was the constant denials of it's existence all together and the eagerness with which you're hair trigger quick to jump all over someone's internet or ask for a vid.

    Is there a vid you can post showing these disadvantages? (I don't really expect one, it's purely rhetorical)
    Whether they have disadvantages or not, their presence still has a direct contributing role in a crappy experience for the others.

    When enough people have the same problems under the same set of circumstances, a direct correlation cannot be denied.

    Understand I'm not picking a fight, or taking jabs.
    Just trying to understand your vehement denial of any problems caused by an abundance of high pingers, especially in the same server.

    How about you do this for me. Explain how high ping destroys servers?

    I have always stated there are issues, but I am not going to point to a demograph of players and say this is it when smart people already tested this and said it's not the case. Even the dev that you constantly reference said that.

    I'm not an IT guy, I'm a car guy. I can't possibly explain how an abundance of high pingers in one server cause craziness.
    I'm gonna throw out my interpretation though.

    Say you have 10 ppl in a US server from places all over the planet.
    Now, based on Revs and Kings descriptions, the signal sent from players consoles moves at light speed, right?
    The further from the server, the longer the info takes to get there. Then, it's gotta show it on screen for all players in the vicinity of the particular person.
    Multiply all those different distances and the time difference they all represent as opposed to those of us who play in our own region.
    All of that time difference added up together seems like it's messing up the servers timing for everyone, since now the lag comp kicks in and actually delays the low ping/in region players message to the server in order to give the high pingers a fighting chance.

    This causes problems for us who play in region and have decent internet cuz we gotta pick up the slack for those who don't.

    It was like this in 3, 4, & now 1.

    This way of doing things must be eliminated. If someone has potato internet or lives too far from the server, that's a them problem. Or should be.
    People with good internet should never even know someone with crap internet has joined the server; all the issues should only stay with that person while not affecting good internet at all.
    Sadly, DICE is insisting on this garbage way of internet interactivity rather than Lett in ng each person's internet determine only their own experience, or at the very least, minimally affect everyone else's.

    The server doesn't wait for a reply. If a player doesn't send data in the given time it puts a null (no value) there. This is why having really high latency sucks cause one second they are running away and the next they are dead in one frame....cause the server has a claimed kill but no data so it just has to go with what it had last.

    But that is not how it plays out in reality..
    What's causing the "bad connections hard to kill issue"?
    bad coding? Bad servers?

    Playing with a high ping or a bad connection should be a struggle, if the game worked like its supposed to.

    But as it have been since the release.
    Its the opposite! Playing with a stable lowping connection is a struggle!

    As it seems, both bf1 and r6s have really bad servers. Atleast on console..

    The updates for r6s is now at a minimum of 15gigs.
    And guess what? The day a new update is released, and the day after. The gameplay is nearly flawless! No highpingers.. No fluctuating ping players..
    Two days after an update, the madness starts again!
    People with crazy fluctuating ping..
    Bulletsponges..
    Out of sync gameplay..
    Missing sounds..
    Headshots not registering.. Etc etc.

    What's causing it?

    Separation of players due to dl speed?

    Fresh started servers? (If so, why is the gameplay just as bad after a server maintenance?)

    And why is it that every time, there is someone that the entire team are having issues with in gunfights. There ping is jumping like crazy. And they are from France, Mexico, middle east, Portuguese, etc..

    Is it a coincidence that every time players like that is in an r6s server. The server icon starts to flash reed after a couple of rounds!?

    Mixing players with bad connection, with players with good connection. Is going to affect the gameplay experience negatively for the players with good connections!

    That is unacceptable in a quality wieew, when people are paying money for an fun experience.

    Again having high latency doesn't mean you have a bad connection. Why do you keep associating the two? I've seen plenty of videos on here where people say "I have low stable connection and look game sucks". Only to see the packet loss and variation icons complementing their wonderful 50ms latency.

    As I stated before having a bad connection doesn't make a person hard to kill....i have had a bad connection and all I did well was dying instantaneously. Heck you saw even HuwJarz vid posted...yup didn't seem like a smooth experience.

    I figured you didn't watch the Battlenonsense vid I posted in my post since that would answer all your rhetorical questions. You would see how bad programming...not high ping can cause ALL the issues you stated.

    But hey blame the sound...no gun at start...inconsistent fall damage...etc etc on high ping. Not very logical but if it makes you feel better then have at it.

    No Ofcorse it cant be that players fluctuating between 150-580-150-2800-240-3400-150-240ms, have a bad connection!
    Ooooohhhhh nooo god forbid to draw such conclusions based of their pingwalues... When those walues are clearly showing how bad their connection really is!

    I don't say, that games doesn't have any issues regarding low ping VS low ping!
    Sometimes there is someone with a 20ms ping, that constantly sponges bullets!
    Having a shot at you when its impossible on your screen. Etc etc..

    But since we can't see opponents packet loss in the scoreboard. Its kind of hard to put the blame on that guys connection!

    A highpinger.. Or a player with wildly fluctuating ping on the other hand. That is something we all can see instantly!

    Your trying to argue about the dead parrot actually being alive, and just taking a nap..
    When everyone clearly can see that the parrot is chopped to bits and putt under water!
    And guess what... The parrot isn't breathing!!!

    But hey, continue to argue and try to convince us that its actually still alive and healthy..

    Guess we're all to stupid to see it...

    Well you seem to not get it so........ill let you come to your own conclusions.
  • Ram1c
    4167 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The thing is rev, even the server ping cap doesn't do justice like the spring patch. The ping cap kicks players that get over a 100ms to the server. I wish that that it could just use the 100ms server side hit detection so that it doesn't kick people, I want to play with friends from other regions and have a good experience. The spring patch did that well and all my friends that are oor said that the server side hit detection played better for them. At least the leading mechanic was more consistent than it is now, I use to play in Oceania servers with no problems with a ping of 230-250ms, now it just feels like a crap shoot.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6761 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Ram1c wrote: »
    The thing is rev, even the server ping cap doesn't do justice like the spring patch. The ping cap kicks players that get over a 100ms to the server. I wish that that it could just use the 100ms server side hit detection so that it doesn't kick people, I want to play with friends from other regions and have a good experience. The spring patch did that well and all my friends that are oor said that the server side hit detection played better for them. At least the leading mechanic was more consistent than it is now, I use to play in Oceania servers with no problems with a ping of 230-250ms, now it just feels like a crap shoot.

    The Spring patch did many things well, but it wasn't live long enough to be fully analysed. Most high pingers literally rage quit, so proper testing wasn't possible. It took months to get the word out that you simply needed to lead a bit and movement was key. Now it's common knowledge.

    They can either increase bullet velocities by a large margin or go back to hitscan. Those are the only 2 options they have for your scenario to work for both sides of the argument.
  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    @RevOverDrive,
    Since the dev isn't answering questions anymore can you please put to rest a question for me as I would respect your answer.
    I don't know squat about how the game works except that it feels off of late.And when I check players connections there are usually 20 or more with high or fluctuating pings. Can that cause my gameplay to feel off? No advantages just maybe hard to gauge where high ping player may be etc. Thank you very much for any answer.

    Yes!
    Elementary math clearly shows it as I've posted it numerous times. Mischkag confirmed this as well on pg 62 and various other pages. You just need to understand what he's talking about in order to interpret his response.

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/comment/739048/#Comment_739048
    My entire rebuttal on extrapolation in that exchange was to confirm abstraction layers, clamping, server auth on all shots, and get layman's output on various functionality. More for future readers than myself.

    Latency Variance is the key. If all players on the server are within 1-2 frames of each other the gameplay is fine. Three to four can be just as good in most instances. Higher than that and we're at the @!$% show debut. Physics based mechanics -> BTT == Arbitration Offset.

    If you have a server where all the players are sitting at 200-250ms Latency, low jitter, low loss, then there shouldn't be an issue. This is because all the players are stable and their latencies aren't wildly varying. The timing of everything ticks around the same notch.

    If you mix that up say 50% under 60ms with varying stability and latencies and 50% over 100ms with varying stability and latencies it gets chaotic.

    When you get an update from the server each player's info in it has to be adjusted positionally based on their variance and your own. The more wildly variant the latency gets, the more work both the client and the server have to do.

    Higher variance == higher probability in errors occurring when extrapolating and/or interpolating positions.


    100ms ping clamp on a server will result in overwhelmingly better game play. Broad reduction in wtf moments and other oddities. That's a simple fact.

    That have been said by me and several other console players on this forum, since bf4.
    And The only thing we have been met with, is trolling by the same two guys over and over again..

    Now I bet, that even after you have put info in an extremely easy to understand way about it.
    And even corrected their idea of how the server handles missing info.

    They will simply continue to troll everyone..

    Its even more amazing then the battlefield netcode :smiley:
  • HillbillyJohn
    510 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I had not played since the last patch so I gave it a try tonight and the end result was I deleted the trash from my hard drive. I'd rather play Hardline any day as this piece of junk. The controls remind me of Killzone 2 and the built in aim bot is ridiculous. I would trade the game in but it's worthless...maybe I'll give it to someone I don't like for Christmas.
  • XboxRanger
    32 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I’m from the UK and have connection issues with BF1 since the release of the turning tides dlc. I have BT Infinity and typically connect to EU servers with a ping of 19-21. I use a wired connection and have ports forwarded. I’ve tried resetting the router, clear the cache and MAC address in the console and doing a full reset. 90% of games are unplayable. The hit detection is awful, it’s as though my game is serveral seconds behind others. I’ve tried US E servers with ping of 81 with occasional improvement but generally not playable either. Hope this issue is temporary as I don’t think I can do anything more to improve my connection.
  • rock1obsta
    3819 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @RevOverDrive,
    Since the dev isn't answering questions anymore can you please put to rest a question for me as I would respect your answer.
    I don't know squat about how the game works except that it feels off of late.And when I check players connections there are usually 20 or more with high or fluctuating pings. Can that cause my gameplay to feel off? No advantages just maybe hard to gauge where high ping player may be etc. Thank you very much for any answer.

    Yes!
    Elementary math clearly shows it as I've posted it numerous times. Mischkag confirmed this as well on pg 62 and various other pages. You just need to understand what he's talking about in order to interpret his response.

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/comment/739048/#Comment_739048
    My entire rebuttal on extrapolation in that exchange was to confirm abstraction layers, clamping, server auth on all shots, and get layman's output on various functionality. More for future readers than myself.

    Latency Variance is the key. If all players on the server are within 1-2 frames of each other the gameplay is fine. Three to four can be just as good in most instances. Higher than that and we're at the @!$% show debut. Physics based mechanics -> BTT == Arbitration Offset.

    If you have a server where all the players are sitting at 200-250ms Latency, low jitter, low loss, then there shouldn't be an issue. This is because all the players are stable and their latencies aren't wildly varying. The timing of everything ticks around the same notch.

    If you mix that up say 50% under 60ms with varying stability and latencies and 50% over 100ms with varying stability and latencies it gets chaotic.

    When you get an update from the server each player's info in it has to be adjusted positionally based on their variance and your own. The more wildly variant the latency gets, the more work both the client and the server have to do.

    Higher variance == higher probability in errors occurring when extrapolating and/or interpolating positions.


    100ms ping clamp on a server will result in overwhelmingly better game play. Broad reduction in wtf moments and other oddities. That's a simple fact.

    Very nice. Thanks for posting.
  • misisipiRivrRat
    1004 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @RevOverDrive,
    Since the dev isn't answering questions anymore can you please put to rest a question for me as I would respect your answer.
    I don't know squat about how the game works except that it feels off of late.And when I check players connections there are usually 20 or more with high or fluctuating pings. Can that cause my gameplay to feel off? No advantages just maybe hard to gauge where high ping player may be etc. Thank you very much for any answer.

    Yes!
    Elementary math clearly shows it as I've posted it numerous times. Mischkag confirmed this as well on pg 62 and various other pages. You just need to understand what he's talking about in order to interpret his response.

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/comment/739048/#Comment_739048
    My entire rebuttal on extrapolation in that exchange was to confirm abstraction layers, clamping, server auth on all shots, and get layman's output on various functionality. More for future readers than myself.

    Latency Variance is the key. If all players on the server are within 1-2 frames of each other the gameplay is fine. Three to four can be just as good in most instances. Higher than that and we're at the @!$% show debut. Physics based mechanics -> BTT == Arbitration Offset.

    If you have a server where all the players are sitting at 200-250ms Latency, low jitter, low loss, then there shouldn't be an issue. This is because all the players are stable and their latencies aren't wildly varying. The timing of everything ticks around the same notch.

    If you mix that up say 50% under 60ms with varying stability and latencies and 50% over 100ms with varying stability and latencies it gets chaotic.

    When you get an update from the server each player's info in it has to be adjusted positionally based on their variance and your own. The more wildly variant the latency gets, the more work both the client and the server have to do.

    Higher variance == higher probability in errors occurring when extrapolating and/or interpolating positions.


    100ms ping clamp on a server will result in overwhelmingly better game play. Broad reduction in wtf moments and other oddities. That's a simple fact.

    Thank you so much for taking the time to answer. What you have explained here and other times confirms what so many of us experience while playing. I'm still hoping something is done to fix this crap before the next game, and before that I'll continue to play in servers with a minimum of high ping players present. Thanks again.
  • misisipiRivrRat
    1004 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I had not played since the last patch so I gave it a try tonight and the end result was I deleted the trash from my hard drive. I'd rather play Hardline any day as this piece of junk. The controls remind me of Killzone 2 and the built in aim bot is ridiculous. I would trade the game in but it's worthless...maybe I'll give it to someone I don't like for Christmas.

    Harsh. Lol!
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    @RevOverDrive,
    Since the dev isn't answering questions anymore can you please put to rest a question for me as I would respect your answer.
    I don't know squat about how the game works except that it feels off of late.And when I check players connections there are usually 20 or more with high or fluctuating pings. Can that cause my gameplay to feel off? No advantages just maybe hard to gauge where high ping player may be etc. Thank you very much for any answer.

    Yes!
    Elementary math clearly shows it as I've posted it numerous times. Mischkag confirmed this as well on pg 62 and various other pages. You just need to understand what he's talking about in order to interpret his response.

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/comment/739048/#Comment_739048
    My entire rebuttal on extrapolation in that exchange was to confirm abstraction layers, clamping, server auth on all shots, and get layman's output on various functionality. More for future readers than myself.

    Latency Variance is the key. If all players on the server are within 1-2 frames of each other the gameplay is fine. Three to four can be just as good in most instances. Higher than that and we're at the @!$% show debut. Physics based mechanics -> BTT == Arbitration Offset.

    If you have a server where all the players are sitting at 200-250ms Latency, low jitter, low loss, then there shouldn't be an issue. This is because all the players are stable and their latencies aren't wildly varying. The timing of everything ticks around the same notch.

    If you mix that up say 50% under 60ms with varying stability and latencies and 50% over 100ms with varying stability and latencies it gets chaotic.

    When you get an update from the server each player's info in it has to be adjusted positionally based on their variance and your own. The more wildly variant the latency gets, the more work both the client and the server have to do.

    Higher variance == higher probability in errors occurring when extrapolating and/or interpolating positions.


    100ms ping clamp on a server will result in overwhelmingly better game play. Broad reduction in wtf moments and other oddities. That's a simple fact.

    That have been said by me and several other console players on this forum, since bf4.
    And The only thing we have been met with, is trolling by the same two guys over and over again..

    Now I bet, that even after you have put info in an extremely easy to understand way about it.
    And even corrected their idea of how the server handles missing info.

    They will simply continue to troll everyone..

    Its even more amazing then the battlefield netcode :smiley:

    No it's cause you actually don't listen. Everyone acknowledged that ping variation is bad....everyone.

    I mean you didn't really even read his post...

    You don't seem to get is high ping =/= bad connection or high variation. But go on form your own misconceptions in your head.

  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @RevOverDrive,
    Since the dev isn't answering questions anymore can you please put to rest a question for me as I would respect your answer.
    I don't know squat about how the game works except that it feels off of late.And when I check players connections there are usually 20 or more with high or fluctuating pings. Can that cause my gameplay to feel off? No advantages just maybe hard to gauge where high ping player may be etc. Thank you very much for any answer.

    Yes!
    Elementary math clearly shows it as I've posted it numerous times. Mischkag confirmed this as well on pg 62 and various other pages. You just need to understand what he's talking about in order to interpret his response.

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/comment/739048/#Comment_739048
    My entire rebuttal on extrapolation in that exchange was to confirm abstraction layers, clamping, server auth on all shots, and get layman's output on various functionality. More for future readers than myself.

    Latency Variance is the key. If all players on the server are within 1-2 frames of each other the gameplay is fine. Three to four can be just as good in most instances. Higher than that and we're at the @!$% show debut. Physics based mechanics -> BTT == Arbitration Offset.

    If you have a server where all the players are sitting at 200-250ms Latency, low jitter, low loss, then there shouldn't be an issue. This is because all the players are stable and their latencies aren't wildly varying. The timing of everything ticks around the same notch.

    If you mix that up say 50% under 60ms with varying stability and latencies and 50% over 100ms with varying stability and latencies it gets chaotic.

    When you get an update from the server each player's info in it has to be adjusted positionally based on their variance and your own. The more wildly variant the latency gets, the more work both the client and the server have to do.

    Higher variance == higher probability in errors occurring when extrapolating and/or interpolating positions.


    100ms ping clamp on a server will result in overwhelmingly better game play. Broad reduction in wtf moments and other oddities. That's a simple fact.

    That have been said by me and several other console players on this forum, since bf4.
    And The only thing we have been met with, is trolling by the same two guys over and over again..

    Now I bet, that even after you have put info in an extremely easy to understand way about it.
    And even corrected their idea of how the server handles missing info.

    They will simply continue to troll everyone..

    Its even more amazing then the battlefield netcode :smiley:

    No it's cause you actually don't listen. Everyone acknowledged that ping variation is bad....everyone.

    I mean you didn't really even read his post...

    You don't seem to get is high ping =/= bad connection or high variation. But go on form your own misconceptions in your head.

    Can you please stop with the trolling!

    We have been arguing about this for several years!

    First. You said that no connection issue affected the servers..
    Me and several others claimed that high ping and fluctuating ping and packet loss, did affect the gameplay negatively for other players.

    Then we showed the evidence straight up your throat, and the netcode engineer showed the evidence up your throat!

    And still here you are.. Only arguing to troll.. Its so sad.. You're such a sad personality..

    Again read this!!!

    I've been saying.
    Low ping can have packet loss!
    Low ping can have high jitter!
    Low ping VS low ping have issues in almost all games!

    We cant see packet loss in the scoreboard!

    What we can see.. And what we see on a regular basis. Is wildly fluctuating ping!
    And the majority of highpingers have a relatively highly fluctuating ping!
    This is what we can see!

    Remember how you trolled about ping in scoreboard? Ooooohhhhh man did you go on about that like a mad man.. And see where we are now!
  • LeonReed123
    82 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited December 2017
    This game is ruined end of sorry but it is. I leave more games than I complete am constantly at a disadvantage within the game and sick of playing roulette to see if I get a normal session. Constant hits not registering way to many weird moments its one issue after another the forum is filled with the same complaints. I can understand people who have stuck with the franchise but come on regarding hit detection etc can you polish a big fat smelly one?
  • Immortal_0neShot
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    This game is ruined end of sorry but it is. I leave more games than I complete am constantly at a disadvantage within the game and sick of playing roulette to see if I get a normal session. Constant hits not registering way to many weird moments its one issue after another the forum is filled with the same complaints. I can understand people who have stuck with the franchise but come on regarding hit detection etc can you polish a big fat smelly one?

    I agree im a BF veteran since day 1 when it al started on PC and since BF3 but mainly BF4 and BF1 it is terrible, im a fan but i can say its total ruined by catering to regions and people with bad connections. The spring patch was so fun while it lasted. then the high pingers started to cry and it was re rolled. that was for me the nail in the coffin. Some fans here keep defending the game to the point it is just laughable. being a fan is 1 thing, being in total denial is something else:)
  • rock1obsta
    3819 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    This game is ruined end of sorry but it is. I leave more games than I complete am constantly at a disadvantage within the game and sick of playing roulette to see if I get a normal session. Constant hits not registering way to many weird moments its one issue after another the forum is filled with the same complaints. I can understand people who have stuck with the franchise but come on regarding hit detection etc can you polish a big fat smelly one?

    Unfortunately, this was my experience for the last few days of playing until I freed up 60GB on my HAD by uninstalling it.
    I just can't tolerate shoddy mechanics and ridiculous loading times. Not to mention being booted off servers because EA drops connections.
    Good riddance.
    Stick to 3 & 4 & you'll get your Battlefield fix.
  • misisipiRivrRat
    1004 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    This game is ruined end of sorry but it is. I leave more games than I complete am constantly at a disadvantage within the game and sick of playing roulette to see if I get a normal session. Constant hits not registering way to many weird moments its one issue after another the forum is filled with the same complaints. I can understand people who have stuck with the franchise but come on regarding hit detection etc can you polish a big fat smelly one?

    I agree im a BF veteran since day 1 when it al started on PC and since BF3 but mainly BF4 and BF1 it is terrible, im a fan but i can say its total ruined by catering to regions and people with bad connections. The spring patch was so fun while it lasted. then the high pingers started to cry and it was re rolled. that was for me the nail in the coffin. Some fans here keep defending the game to the point it is just laughable. being a fan is 1 thing, being in total denial is something else:)

    Ahhh the spring patch. I played more during that patch than any other time since. They should have rolled with it at least awhile longer.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @RevOverDrive,
    Since the dev isn't answering questions anymore can you please put to rest a question for me as I would respect your answer.
    I don't know squat about how the game works except that it feels off of late.And when I check players connections there are usually 20 or more with high or fluctuating pings. Can that cause my gameplay to feel off? No advantages just maybe hard to gauge where high ping player may be etc. Thank you very much for any answer.

    Yes!
    Elementary math clearly shows it as I've posted it numerous times. Mischkag confirmed this as well on pg 62 and various other pages. You just need to understand what he's talking about in order to interpret his response.

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/comment/739048/#Comment_739048
    My entire rebuttal on extrapolation in that exchange was to confirm abstraction layers, clamping, server auth on all shots, and get layman's output on various functionality. More for future readers than myself.

    Latency Variance is the key. If all players on the server are within 1-2 frames of each other the gameplay is fine. Three to four can be just as good in most instances. Higher than that and we're at the @!$% show debut. Physics based mechanics -> BTT == Arbitration Offset.

    If you have a server where all the players are sitting at 200-250ms Latency, low jitter, low loss, then there shouldn't be an issue. This is because all the players are stable and their latencies aren't wildly varying. The timing of everything ticks around the same notch.

    If you mix that up say 50% under 60ms with varying stability and latencies and 50% over 100ms with varying stability and latencies it gets chaotic.

    When you get an update from the server each player's info in it has to be adjusted positionally based on their variance and your own. The more wildly variant the latency gets, the more work both the client and the server have to do.

    Higher variance == higher probability in errors occurring when extrapolating and/or interpolating positions.


    100ms ping clamp on a server will result in overwhelmingly better game play. Broad reduction in wtf moments and other oddities. That's a simple fact.

    That have been said by me and several other console players on this forum, since bf4.
    And The only thing we have been met with, is trolling by the same two guys over and over again..

    Now I bet, that even after you have put info in an extremely easy to understand way about it.
    And even corrected their idea of how the server handles missing info.

    They will simply continue to troll everyone..

    Its even more amazing then the battlefield netcode :smiley:

    No it's cause you actually don't listen. Everyone acknowledged that ping variation is bad....everyone.

    I mean you didn't really even read his post...

    You don't seem to get is high ping =/= bad connection or high variation. But go on form your own misconceptions in your head.

    Can you please stop with the trolling!

    We have been arguing about this for several years!

    First. You said that no connection issue affected the servers..
    Me and several others claimed that high ping and fluctuating ping and packet loss, did affect the gameplay negatively for other players.

    Then we showed the evidence straight up your throat, and the netcode engineer showed the evidence up your throat!

    And still here you are.. Only arguing to troll.. Its so sad.. You're such a sad personality..

    Again read this!!!

    I've been saying.
    Low ping can have packet loss!
    Low ping can have high jitter!
    Low ping VS low ping have issues in almost all games!

    We cant see packet loss in the scoreboard!

    What we can see.. And what we see on a regular basis. Is wildly fluctuating ping!
    And the majority of highpingers have a relatively highly fluctuating ping!
    This is what we can see!

    Remember how you trolled about ping in scoreboard? Ooooohhhhh man did you go on about that like a mad man.. And see where we are now!

    Actually that's not what you been saying. You always just accused anyone that killed you and had triple digit ping. Then you post a vid where you clearly miss and get salty when someone calls you out.

    Now you're trying to change your narrative just to try to show you were "right". But hey many more new games out there.... you can always play something else if it's that bad.
  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @RevOverDrive,
    Since the dev isn't answering questions anymore can you please put to rest a question for me as I would respect your answer.
    I don't know squat about how the game works except that it feels off of late.And when I check players connections there are usually 20 or more with high or fluctuating pings. Can that cause my gameplay to feel off? No advantages just maybe hard to gauge where high ping player may be etc. Thank you very much for any answer.

    Yes!
    Elementary math clearly shows it as I've posted it numerous times. Mischkag confirmed this as well on pg 62 and various other pages. You just need to understand what he's talking about in order to interpret his response.

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/comment/739048/#Comment_739048
    My entire rebuttal on extrapolation in that exchange was to confirm abstraction layers, clamping, server auth on all shots, and get layman's output on various functionality. More for future readers than myself.

    Latency Variance is the key. If all players on the server are within 1-2 frames of each other the gameplay is fine. Three to four can be just as good in most instances. Higher than that and we're at the @!$% show debut. Physics based mechanics -> BTT == Arbitration Offset.

    If you have a server where all the players are sitting at 200-250ms Latency, low jitter, low loss, then there shouldn't be an issue. This is because all the players are stable and their latencies aren't wildly varying. The timing of everything ticks around the same notch.

    If you mix that up say 50% under 60ms with varying stability and latencies and 50% over 100ms with varying stability and latencies it gets chaotic.

    When you get an update from the server each player's info in it has to be adjusted positionally based on their variance and your own. The more wildly variant the latency gets, the more work both the client and the server have to do.

    Higher variance == higher probability in errors occurring when extrapolating and/or interpolating positions.


    100ms ping clamp on a server will result in overwhelmingly better game play. Broad reduction in wtf moments and other oddities. That's a simple fact.

    That have been said by me and several other console players on this forum, since bf4.
    And The only thing we have been met with, is trolling by the same two guys over and over again..

    Now I bet, that even after you have put info in an extremely easy to understand way about it.
    And even corrected their idea of how the server handles missing info.

    They will simply continue to troll everyone..

    Its even more amazing then the battlefield netcode :smiley:

    No it's cause you actually don't listen. Everyone acknowledged that ping variation is bad....everyone.

    I mean you didn't really even read his post...

    You don't seem to get is high ping =/= bad connection or high variation. But go on form your own misconceptions in your head.

    Can you please stop with the trolling!

    We have been arguing about this for several years!

    First. You said that no connection issue affected the servers..
    Me and several others claimed that high ping and fluctuating ping and packet loss, did affect the gameplay negatively for other players.

    Then we showed the evidence straight up your throat, and the netcode engineer showed the evidence up your throat!

    And still here you are.. Only arguing to troll.. Its so sad.. You're such a sad personality..

    Again read this!!!

    I've been saying.
    Low ping can have packet loss!
    Low ping can have high jitter!
    Low ping VS low ping have issues in almost all games!

    We cant see packet loss in the scoreboard!

    What we can see.. And what we see on a regular basis. Is wildly fluctuating ping!
    And the majority of highpingers have a relatively highly fluctuating ping!
    This is what we can see!

    Remember how you trolled about ping in scoreboard? Ooooohhhhh man did you go on about that like a mad man.. And see where we are now!

    Actually that's not what you been saying. You always just accused anyone that killed you and had triple digit ping. Then you post a vid where you clearly miss and get salty when someone calls you out.

    Now you're trying to change your narrative just to try to show you were "right". But hey many more new games out there.... you can always play something else if it's that bad.

    No no no... It's you that gets salty when trying to discredit people's videos.
    And when your disproven, you start to either troll even more. Or you simply go silent..

    Remember the invisible player?
    You tried to discredit me and others so hard..
    I actually had to make a special "idiot proof" video. And point out every litle thing!
    Then you whent completely silent..

    I remember lots of times you have outright attacked people on those forums.. Just because you have some sick issue with them or the topic..
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