It's time to have a legitimate discussion about if this game would be better without planes

Comments

  • llPhantom_Limbll
    6200 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I think the point OP is trying to make is that they can not be easily countered from the ground by infantry and by general admission they have no influence on the objective against a decent team, then what's the point?

    Personally I think they can influence the objective and in the hands of a decent pilot they are effective, but I understand where the OP is coming from. Having cleared out an objective, to get killed by a cluster bomb from above is annoying. I think LMG's should do more damage to aeroplanes to add more risk for the pilot during bombing runs when they have air superiority, but this needs to be very carefully balanced.

    OP has never tried to pilot a plane in the game so his opinion doesn't have much to offer because without flying experience it's impossible to stay reasonable. After some patches lmgs do lots of damage to planes and if aimed correctly can easily take 50% of plane health to make the pilot retreat. Also SAA on most maps are placed near every second flag.
    This whole thread is just overreaction from someone who doesn't want to adapt or become a little less clueless.
  • disposalist
    8851 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Nope.

    I hated them in BF4. Truly was random death from above with nothing ground troops could do against even a partly competent jet pilot. A good pilot could destroy everything including the MAA and only another good pilot could counter them.

    In BF1 they are great. Fun the fly and not to difficult to take down. SAA, MAA, LMGs, other planes, Tank hunter gun, Artillery truck, etc, etc.
  • wenkels
    109 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I don't have to have flown a plane to know how planes can impact infantry combat and any suggestion otherwise has no grounds.

    I'm not saying planes are easy to get kills with, idk, I don't fly them. But I know that they cause unavoidable gimmicky kills to infantry combat without adding to it in any ways
  • Ferdinand_J_Foch
    3417 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Nope.

    I hated them in BF4. Truly was random death from above with nothing ground troops could do against even a partly competent jet pilot. A good pilot could destroy everything including the MAA and only another good pilot could counter them.

    In BF1 they are great. Fun the fly and not to difficult to take down. SAA, MAA, LMGs, other planes, Tank hunter gun, Artillery truck, etc, etc.

    You and I have had vastly different experiences. There was only one time when I was killed by a fixed-wing aircraft in BF4 - an F35 bombing the downed airliner on Lost Islands. They weren't that easy to take down from the ground, but they barely did anything to ground troops anyways. I even managed to down several fighter jets with that pick-up lock-on launcher that fires three rockets, at least, before it got nerfed. The Scout Helicopters, on the other hand, were extremely dangerous.

    Of course, I played BF4 on a PS3/4, so the experience of a PC player might have differed.

    In BF1, aircraft are extremely powerful, yet more vulnerable at the same time. Its not uncommon to see a pilot going 60+ kills with just one or two deaths. The SAA can be highly effective against novice and incompetent pilots, but a decent pilot knows all of the SAA spots, and avoids going too close to them. Yes, you can kill an aircraft with your LMG, but it would be unwise to do this without some sort of team coordination - one person shooting at a plane won't do much, so you'll either need a squad of anti-air Supports, or pair your LMG with an SAA. Not to mention the fact that we don't have weapons like the Stinger, IGLA and the MBT LAW, which made it somewhat easy to at least disable or disorient enemy aircraft. The anti-air mines from the Naval Strike DLC also made it easier to neutralise the air space.

    Aircraft were at their worst in BF2. Fighter jets were practically invincible, and the only hope of seeing an enemy jet going away was to have them crash, or get in a fighter jet yourself. Helicopters in BFBC2 are also quite ridiculous, but I've found that the Carl Gustav is really deadly against them - the trajectory of the rocket is easy to learn, so you'll be shooting helicopters out of the sky in no time.
  • NLBartmaN
    4484 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I am now trying to complete the pilot specialization assignment and need to destroy 25 tanks / trucks with an attack plane .. real fun :smiley:

    The OOB camping tanks and trucks had a bad evening yesterday :wink:

    But another good reason to have planes in the game, to destroy those OOB vehicles.
  • disposalist
    8851 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited January 2018
    wenkels wrote: »
    I don't have to have flown a plane to know how planes can impact infantry combat and any suggestion otherwise has no grounds.

    I'm not saying planes are easy to get kills with, idk, I don't fly them. But I know that they cause unavoidable gimmicky kills to infantry combat without adding to it in any ways
    Most kills in the game are 'unavoidable' in a similar way. Most deaths are because someone else got the drop on you, not in some even skill shoot out, even infantry vs. infantry.

    Avoiding dying to planes is about watching the skies, listening for engines, checking the minimap. Many times I've seen a plane and run perpendicular to its path and avoided its guns and bombs. I do it almost without thinking now.

    When you get a good pilot it's immensely satisfying to get out the repair tool and LMG and defend a flag with an SAA and take them down.

    Yes, planes add to the experience, even if you refuse to fly them.

    Also, if you refuse to fly them, you're missing out on using their biggest counter: other planes...

    Seriously, dude, go try Golmud in BF4 if you think BF1 planes are annoying... Planes are a Battlefield staple and they are the best they've ever been in BF1. You're not going to get many wanting them gone.
  • bran1986
    5907 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I really like how air vehicles are balanced in BF1, they are extremely powerful and great pilots can really help a team, but they are also vulnerable, and pilots have to have great awareness of their surroundings.
  • MogwaiWarrior
    967 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I have no issue with planes but I rarely see them do anything other than being an annoyance and not really being an influence to the game at all, unlike other vehicles.
  • NLBartmaN
    4484 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I have no issue with planes but I rarely see them do anything other than being an annoyance and not really being an influence to the game at all, unlike other vehicles.

    Destroying the enemy tank that is guarding the flag you need to take?

    Wiping complete squads that are defending or attacking a flag?

    The numbers of times I saw a flag taken just after I wiped 3 or 4 enemy players and my team suddenly had more players in the capzone is countless ..
  • HANSGRUBER30
    3059 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I think the OP should try BF4 or BF3 in a match against a pro little bird pilot with his/her buddy in the back with the repair tool. Attack planes can be devastating but you don't get chased into buildings by them, in BF4 this happened a lot on some maps with little birds.

    I still have nightmares.
  • abc1434286920
    447 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    wenkels wrote: »
    Spoiler alert: It would

    So in conclusion planes are only ever flown by dumb pubs and should be removed

    Love the conclusion :)
    Planes are fun and provide another dimension to the game. It is not logical that you want them to be removed because you (still) havent found ways to counter them, or at least pilot them yourself.


    CSO7777 wrote: »
    The problems are that it's to easy to just dump explosives on infantry.

    When infantry are fighting over flags, they cannot use AA (you will die instantly). Then the pilots just farm infantry. Infantry has no valid counters for pilots, using AA i often not possible.
    While somewhat true its not really reflective of what transpires. Fi
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    I have no issue with planes but I rarely see them do anything other than being an annoyance and not really being an influence to the game at all, unlike other vehicles.

    Destroying the enemy tank that is guarding the flag you need to take?

    Wiping complete squads that are defending or attacking a flag?

    The numbers of times I saw a flag taken just after I wiped 3 or 4 enemy players and my team suddenly had more players in the capzone is countless ..

    Throwing flairs/spotting, giving ground troops the advantage of knowing where the enemy is while capturing a flag?
    Denying the area from enemy planes that will bomb the ground troops while they are capturing a point?


    Theres many ways one can ptfo and have fun as a pilot, other than just farming kills. Obviously the op and the like have not found joy in this different aspect of the game (that must remain as is),really though OP you should try it out first...

  • bleachee
    970 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited January 2018
    OP I strongly encourage you to jump in a fighter and learn to shoot down the enemy. This will make you a better, more rounded player who can adapt to any situation on the battlefield. This is skill. The ability to see what's happening, pick the right tool, then fix it. Inflexibility is a death sentence. Plus flying is a lot of fun.
  • Ferdinand_J_Foch
    3417 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    robmcewen wrote: »
    I think the OP should try BF4 or BF3 in a match against a pro little bird pilot with his/her buddy in the back with the repair tool. Attack planes can be devastating but you don't get chased into buildings by them, in BF4 this happened a lot on some maps with little birds.

    I still have nightmares.

    I'm not a fan of planes in BF1, but those Little Birds were indeed some of the most vicious things in the history of Battlefield. One time, in a Naval Assault match, somebody managed to get their Little Bird inside the aircraft carrier. I would have tried to kill it, but when we all saw it, we just panicked and retreated back to our MCOMs. That bloody thing pretty much hovered right outside the engine room for the rest of the match.

    I've even seen Little Birds in the hangars at Hangar 21, Hammerhead and Wave Breaker. Its like being in a cramped room, when an angry tiger enters the room, and suddenly, you're trapped with that big animal AND all of the other panicking people in the room as well.
  • GyposEyelash
    61 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I think the point OP is trying to make is that they can not be easily countered from the ground by infantry and by general admission they have no influence on the objective against a decent team, then what's the point?

    Personally I think they can influence the objective and in the hands of a decent pilot they are effective, but I understand where the OP is coming from. Having cleared out an objective, to get killed by a cluster bomb from above is annoying. I think LMG's should do more damage to aeroplanes to add more risk for the pilot during bombing runs when they have air superiority, but this needs to be very carefully balanced.

    OP has never tried to pilot a plane in the game so his opinion doesn't have much to offer because without flying experience it's impossible to stay reasonable. After some patches lmgs do lots of damage to planes and if aimed correctly can easily take 50% of plane health to make the pilot retreat. Also SAA on most maps are placed near every second flag.
    This whole thread is just overreaction from someone who doesn't want to adapt or become a little less clueless.

    OP has been killed by planes and his opinion is just as valid as yours, you don't have to agree!

    Personally I think that once a pilot has air superiority, there is little danger for them to continually strafe/bomb infantry. I would argue 50% health during a strafe run though, 15% - 20% per LMG providing the user can aim it well is much more realistic and most of the time less than that.

    This means that pilots can come in low, making their bombing more accurate, take a small amount of damage, fly away, repair, repeat. Infantry using AA guns are extremely exposed to both planes and infantry and they are usually placed in an area of an objective.

    I'm not saying get rid of planes or buff LMG's, I don't have an easy answer, just saying planes can be annoying.
  • NLBartmaN
    4484 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Haven't met a pilot yet that couldn't be brought down with a surprise attack of an AA truck ..

    And I have seen some really skilled master pilots that really took out every stationairy AA gun and plane that tried to kill them with ease ..
  • ThreeDog3212
    23 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The problem with planes is most players in planes avoid any dogfight, unlike BF4 or BF3 where you had to destroy air crafts first. And I guess it's because of the very powerful machine gun on the back seat of attack planes and bombers. It just makes it useless for the other pilots to chase them since hey know that the machine gunner on the back is going to destroy him earlier than he can with his main cannon. Sometimes I can even live my plane and go back on the gunner seat and destroy the plane that is chasing me.
    At the end the players decide to avoid dogfights and kill ground units.
  • abc1434286920
    447 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I think the point OP is trying to make is that they can not be easily countered from the ground by infantry and by general admission they have no influence on the objective against a decent team, then what's the point?

    Personally I think they can influence the objective and in the hands of a decent pilot they are effective, but I understand where the OP is coming from. Having cleared out an objective, to get killed by a cluster bomb from above is annoying. I think LMG's should do more damage to aeroplanes to add more risk for the pilot during bombing runs when they have air superiority, but this needs to be very carefully balanced.

    OP has never tried to pilot a plane in the game so his opinion doesn't have much to offer because without flying experience it's impossible to stay reasonable. After some patches lmgs do lots of damage to planes and if aimed correctly can easily take 50% of plane health to make the pilot retreat. Also SAA on most maps are placed near every second flag.
    This whole thread is just overreaction from someone who doesn't want to adapt or become a little less clueless.

    OP has been killed by planes and his opinion is just as valid as yours,

    I'm not saying get rid of planes or buff LMG's, I don't have an easy answer, just saying planes can be annoying.

    Your opinion is indeed as valid as everyone else's however it's a bit skewed as you admitted to not trying to learn the "trade", thus don't have all the information as to why it's a valid and fun class.
    If planes are annoying you in a game just get a mortar truck and bring them dow, it's relatively easy. Or adapt your game against the pilots actions. ..
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    6200 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I think the point OP is trying to make is that they can not be easily countered from the ground by infantry and by general admission they have no influence on the objective against a decent team, then what's the point?

    Personally I think they can influence the objective and in the hands of a decent pilot they are effective, but I understand where the OP is coming from. Having cleared out an objective, to get killed by a cluster bomb from above is annoying. I think LMG's should do more damage to aeroplanes to add more risk for the pilot during bombing runs when they have air superiority, but this needs to be very carefully balanced.

    OP has never tried to pilot a plane in the game so his opinion doesn't have much to offer because without flying experience it's impossible to stay reasonable. After some patches lmgs do lots of damage to planes and if aimed correctly can easily take 50% of plane health to make the pilot retreat. Also SAA on most maps are placed near every second flag.
    This whole thread is just overreaction from someone who doesn't want to adapt or become a little less clueless.

    OP has been killed by planes and his opinion is just as valid as yours, you don't have to agree!

    Personally I think that once a pilot has air superiority, there is little danger for them to continually strafe/bomb infantry. I would argue 50% health during a strafe run though, 15% - 20% per LMG providing the user can aim it well is much more realistic and most of the time less than that.

    This means that pilots can come in low, making their bombing more accurate, take a small amount of damage, fly away, repair, repeat. Infantry using AA guns are extremely exposed to both planes and infantry and they are usually placed in an area of an objective.

    I'm not saying get rid of planes or buff LMG's, I don't have an easy answer, just saying planes can be annoying.

    And again, you can't form a proper opinion if you haven't tried another side of the coin. Because pilots have to deal with lots of things and survive. Enemy planes, MAA, SAA, lmgs, even a tank can get you in one hit if tanker managed to land that shot. It always amuses me how people say piloting/tanking is easy but never actually tried any of those.
  • Colt_Seavers009
    52 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Sitting at work reading this thread, smiling and drinking the delicious tears of you crying infantry. Tables have turned now huh, no longer can two of you stinger rats team up on me with my limited number of flares. Sniping is more prominent in BF1 so AA is the first place a sniper looks for a kill, and you cowards in planes wont dogfight me. I havnt played BF4 in so long because my air killing in the attack plane is too much fun. I actually support my ground troops movements and soften up the flags they are running to with flares and bombing runs. Instead of wasting time in a fighter jet dropping 1 plane every 5 minutes or so and doing nothing to PTFO. Rarely do I come across a coordinated opposing team that can keep me grounded. You COD pansies make it too easy.

    AGNT009 - PS4
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