Introduce a Mercy-Rule for Conquest

2

Comments

  • IIRogueMachineII
    1188 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited February 12
    WetFishDB wrote: »
    That’s why I don’t play Conquest and especially conquest assault on BF1. The new maps in apocalypse are spawn trapping hells, fairly certain I won’t be playing them much. Conquest will always have the potential to spawn trapping. Only way to really avoid it is both teams gimmes are off limits, put the out of bounds before both of them.

    Isn't that basically what the home spawn area is, a protected area that's off limits where they can always re-join the battle? The issue is that sometimes the enemy can't fight their way out of their protected area - hence the spawn trapping discussion.

    What would be the point in giving them an incontestable flag inside their home spawn area?

    Well it would be their spawn so to speak just a protective area to actually go. Also it would at least allow for them to actually spawn somewhere and probably deter the base rapers out there. Also i would make it so that even if they're so far behind id make so the same applies to the next flag as well, no further. This would avoid the inability to actually go anywhere, i mean for example on achieving baba i've seen games where the turkish team cant get out of spawn because the spawn area offer no protection at all. at least by giving the losing team a guaranteed flag or 2 it gives them a chance to spawn somewhere. Just spawning at spawn theres literally nowhere to go, if your against a particularly aggressive team. At least potentially if you have a flag theres chance if your stuck at base its no chance. Also i'd quicken up the vehicle respawn, more tanks and other vehicles. literally multiple spam.
  • Trokey66
    5860 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited February 13
    PackersDK wrote: »
    I like the idea of random spawns.

    After a certain amount of time (or deaths) where no flags have been taken, you can spawn at any enemy flag. Perhaps only once, or a set number of minuttes/deaths. Perhaps squad leader could decide which enemy flag should be spawned at. Perhaps only squad leader can spawn at flag, the rest on him. Many ways you could make it interesting.

    I would say though, that the dominating team should get a clear warning that random spawns are imminent.

    There are certainly options to explore before a 'mercy rule'. Whilst the win is an obvious goal, fighting a lost cause can be very enjoyable under certain circumstances.

    I just fear that a mercy role will remove such epicness.
    Post edited by Trokey66 on
  • blindsniper63
    2107 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    If myself and my squad/team have played tactically and well,why should the enemy be given a free meal ticket?You can use smoke grenades, smoke with the mortars and flares for position of the enemy.Players just need to be more ambitious. On Suez I will not spawn until one of our squad has got the horse then dismounts so we can spawn.Would like to see some sidecars on some of the maps as a way of getting out of spawn.Maybe the drivers of behemoth's shouldn't have a weapon so they could get it down the map as a spawn area.The train could do with a troop carriage maybe?
  • dcs500
    943 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 12
    If myself and my squad/team have played tactically and well,why should the enemy be given a free meal ticket?You can use smoke grenades, smoke with the mortars and flares for position of the enemy.Players just need to be more ambitious. On Suez I will not spawn until one of our squad has got the horse then dismounts so we can spawn.Would like to see some sidecars on some of the maps as a way of getting out of spawn.Maybe the drivers of behemoth's shouldn't have a weapon so they could get it down the map as a spawn area.The train could do with a troop carriage maybe?

    ...and not forgetting the old favorite, the aircraft taxi service, express delivery to a flag of your choice.
    :)
  • blindsniper63
    2107 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    dcs500 wrote: »
    If myself and my squad/team have played tactically and well,why should the enemy be given a free meal ticket?You can use smoke grenades, smoke with the mortars and flares for position of the enemy.Players just need to be more ambitious. On Suez I will not spawn until one of our squad has got the horse then dismounts so we can spawn.Would like to see some sidecars on some of the maps as a way of getting out of spawn.Maybe the drivers of behemoth's shouldn't have a weapon so they could get it down the map as a spawn area.The train could do with a troop carriage maybe?

    ...and not forgetting the old favorite, the aircraft taxi service, express delivery to a flag of your choice.
    :)

    How many times have we wanted to outflank and the blueberries are using single seaters lol.
  • WetFishDB
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    WetFishDB wrote: »
    That’s why I don’t play Conquest and especially conquest assault on BF1. The new maps in apocalypse are spawn trapping hells, fairly certain I won’t be playing them much. Conquest will always have the potential to spawn trapping. Only way to really avoid it is both teams gimmes are off limits, put the out of bounds before both of them.

    Isn't that basically what the home spawn area is, a protected area that's off limits where they can always re-join the battle? The issue is that sometimes the enemy can't fight their way out of their protected area - hence the spawn trapping discussion.

    What would be the point in giving them an incontestable flag inside their home spawn area?

    Well it would be their spawn so to speak just a protective area to actually go. Also it would at least allow for them to actually spawn somewhere and probably deter the base rapers out there. Also i would make it so that even if they're so far behind id make so the same applies to the next flag as well, no further. This would avoid the inability to actually go anywhere, i mean for example on achieving baba i've seen games where the turkish team cant get out of spawn because the spawn area offer no protection at all. at least by giving the losing team a guaranteed flag or 2 it gives them a chance to spawn somewhere. Just spawning at spawn theres literally nowhere to go, if your against a particularly aggressive team. At least potentially if you have a flag theres chance if your stuck at base its no chance. Also i'd quicken up the vehicle respawn, more tanks and other vehicles. literally multiple spam.

    But they ALREADY have somewhere to spawn - their home spawn area. Just by putting a flag in it doesn't change that they can't fight their way out of that protected area. They have lots of places they can go if they can fight their way out. Having a flag inside that area doesn't change a jot.
  • IIRogueMachineII
    1188 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited February 13
    Yes but their home spawn is pretty much nailed on, impossible to get out of. If they were allowed a flag, they’d stand a slim chance. If you’re in spawn there’s no hope. Best just surrendering and end the game. The only really way to avoid it is for the sweaty tryhards get switched to the sucking team, then they might stand a chance. Because if sweaty try hards weren’t so sweaty the other team probably wouldn’t have been pushed back so badly. It’s either allow a surrender, which ends the game or slam vehicle multiple times a minute. Random spawns wouldn’t help because the enemy team would just spawn there and insta kill them. I don’t and will ever understand why people need to play so aggressively that they spawn trap and base ****. But that’s just me. It’s boring to do and ******* **** to spawn trapped.
    Post edited by IIRogueMachineII on
  • Trokey66
    5860 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Another option to a mercy rule is variable spawn times.

    Increase trappers times and/or decrease trapped times.
  • Kabanyash_
    251 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Until most random players don't grasp the concept of well-coordinated interaction between squad members the balance problems will always be there.
  • WetFishDB
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Yes but their home spawn is pretty much nailed on, impossible to get out of. If they were allowed a flag, they’d stand a slim chance. .

    Having a flag in a protected zone doesn't change their inability to fight their way out of their protected zone. It just means that the game prolongs unnecessarily as they are counting up tickets - which is pointless, as is having a flag the enemy can't take.
    Best just surrendering and end the game.

    That's kind of what I'm suggesting with the mercy rule
    Because if sweaty try hards weren’t so sweaty the other team probably wouldn’t have been pushed back so badly... I don’t and will ever understand why people need to play so aggressively that they spawn trap and base ****.

    You can't really blame people competently playing the game for a teams inability to capture flags, flank etc. Most people play the game for fun, but often would consider winning fun and so do what they can to ensure that. Unfortunately it does occasionally (increasingly frequent) result in spawn trapping.
    But that’s just me. It’s boring to do and ******* **** to spawn trapped.

    Completely agree. Hence trying to suggest a solution :)
  • IIRogueMachineII
    1188 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    In the worse case surrender is the only realistic way. Because there’s no chance of getting out of spawn if you’re that pinned back. Maybe the winning team shouldn’t be punished but ultimately if you need to win that badly play competitively. This is supposed to be fun. Occasionally it could be down to a poor team but mostly it’s doen to clans and platoons, not anti them it’s just if there’s a platoon on one team with 3-5 of them and no similar on the other the games only going one way!!!
  • WetFishDB
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    In the worse case surrender is the only realistic way. Because there’s no chance of getting out of spawn if you’re that pinned back.

    That was my thinking. I agree a random spawn (one of the other suggestions) might help get the game going, although with the current scoring a comeback is so unlikely it'll probably remain boring. It's no different to a few players eventually sneaking out - the entire team then descends on whatever flag they try to capture desperately searching for some gunplay.
    Maybe the winning team shouldn’t be punished but ultimately if you need to win that badly play competitively. This is supposed to be fun.

    By try-hard - do you just mean competent PTFO players? I do what I can to win, because that's basically the objective of the game and so I try to achieve that. Playing 'competitive' is a bit of an odd term - that implies leagues, and structure etc. Most people want to hop on and have fun doing whatever they want (whether that be to hump hills, PTFO, fly a plane, destroy a behemoth with a Kolibri etc). If public games were only full of people who didn't want to PTFO then games of Conquest would be awfully boring IMHO. It's the mix that makes the gameplay 'fun' for many.
    Occasionally it could be down to a poor team but mostly it’s doen to clans and platoons, not anti them it’s just if there’s a platoon on one team with 3-5 of them and no similar on the other the games only going one way!!!

    Some platoons certainly can influence the game, but it's not always guaranteed either way. Last night we played against some of the FF guys. Some games were really close. Some games were heavily skewed to one side despite both sides having platoons in them. It's overall balance that's more important. Minor point, its not being in a platoon that makes a difference really - its being in a party and being able to coordinate that's much more effective. Having 3-5 guys in a platoon on a side vs non-platoons doesn't necessarily mean a thing.

    Thing is, anyone can join a platoon. So if you are finding platoons a problem, join one yourself and take control of the battlefield
  • WetFishDB
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    In the worse case surrender is the only realistic way. Because there’s no chance of getting out of spawn if you’re that pinned back. Maybe the winning team shouldn’t be punished but ultimately if you need to win that badly play competitively. This is supposed to be fun. Occasionally it could be down to a poor team but mostly it’s doen to clans and platoons, not anti them it’s just if there’s a platoon on one team with 3-5 of them and no similar on the other the games only going one way!!!

    ps, you never said Try-Hard. I just read that. Maybe I'm a little overly defensive ;)
  • IIRogueMachineII
    1188 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    As much as bad a team can play a part in a pin back game, platoons and clans can as well. To me theirs a difference between PTFO players and "Try hards". PTFO will just play the objective, ie.re cap or stop a flag from capping. "Try hards" are the ones who must win, couldn't possible not win and if their on the team getting pinned back they'd switch or quit!!!! Not hating on anyone. Just In my experience there is players who maybe take it more casually and play to have fun and win and want to do well and then theres the other. I just don't get why people find it fun to absolutely pin the enemy team back to basically farm kills form the others spawn. As soon as its that bad the game should just end. I said competitively because then if they want a hard fought, tough game you'd get one there. Playing pub games chance are you won't. Its just my experience, i've rarely been on a team where the other side has 3-5 from a platoon and we win, unless maybe they spawned in to late to change the balance. Chances are though if they are in a platoon they probably are in a chat or at the very least all following one another.
  • misisipiRivrRat
    617 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Op,
    I think you and others have some great ideas here but not sure if they would work or not. It seems to me that most of the spawn traps happen because of the horrible balance in the game to begin with. Most spawn traps probably wouldn't happen ( as often anyway ) if one team didn't have such an advantage in team numbers.
    I was actually on a team being caught at spawn the other day, and the number of people joining then quitting the server was amazing. I kept checking the server and three times the team had 32 players, and each time they would leave and we'd be down by 5 players again. It's like nobody joining wants to try and fight from behind , they'd rather just quit.
    And yes, many more spawn traps after the update.
  • WetFishDB
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    As much as bad a team can play a part in a pin back game, platoons and clans can as well. To me theirs a difference between PTFO players and "Try hards". PTFO will just play the objective, ie.re cap or stop a flag from capping. "Try hards" are the ones who must win, couldn't possible not win and if their on the team getting pinned back they'd switch or quit!!!! Not hating on anyone. Just In my experience there is players who maybe take it more casually and play to have fun and win and want to do well and then theres the other. I just don't get why people find it fun to absolutely pin the enemy team back to basically farm kills form the others spawn. As soon as its that bad the game should just end. I said competitively because then if they want a hard fought, tough game you'd get one there. Playing pub games chance are you won't. Its just my experience, i've rarely been on a team where the other side has 3-5 from a platoon and we win, unless maybe they spawned in to late to change the balance. Chances are though if they are in a platoon they probably are in a chat or at the very least all following one another.

    Honestly, I don't think try-hards are the issue here. If they just quit or switch whenever they are losing then they probably don't influence the game all that much. It's competent PTFO'ers that don't enjoy pinning the enemy back, but what should they do - stop playing for 5 minutes and let them capture a few flags? I agree, I think the game should just end. Then re-balance for the next round etc.

    As for the platoon thing, I play in one and on my own. Rarely notice any difference if there are platoons on the other team - unless we/I come across a good one (which is maybe 20-30% of games). But that's really just coming across a few good players working together - platoon tags or otherwise.
  • WetFishDB
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Op,
    I think you and others have some great ideas here but not sure if they would work or not. It seems to me that most of the spawn traps happen because of the horrible balance in the game to begin with. Most spawn traps probably wouldn't happen ( as often anyway ) if one team didn't have such an advantage in team numbers.
    I was actually on a team being caught at spawn the other day, and the number of people joining then quitting the server was amazing. I kept checking the server and three times the team had 32 players, and each time they would leave and we'd be down by 5 players again. It's like nobody joining wants to try and fight from behind , they'd rather just quit.
    And yes, many more spawn traps after the update.

    I agree completely. I think the game starting with such misbalanced teams is silly. Either re-balance again, or wait until the server fills up a bit and is balanced before starting. But numbers balance isn't always the issue - just general ability differences can sometimes make completely full servers entirely one sided. Sure a bunch then leave and the game becomes number imbalanced too, but that was the consquence rather than the cause - if that makes sense.

    I still think a quit stat would help a bit on the number balance side of things (as then at least the stat padders wouldn't have any benefit of leaving), but some people just don't want to fight from behind. I'd also like to see deaths removed from objective modes - people worry about that way too much. Perhaps if they worried less and played the objective more the games would be a little more competitive.
  • IIRogueMachineII
    1188 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    They aren't the major issue but they are an issue which effects the team balancing working properly, it tries to put them on the same team when say the other team could do with them. Ive seen it happen, good players at the top of the losing team just quit when they get dominated. But either way lopsided games aren't fun either being dominated or dominating. After the ending of a lopsided game then it needs to if necessary split up platoons/clans or friends and then later once its balanced to even it out.
  • urban2544
    279 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    i say NO. I have seen this happen yet the other is able to break out and capture. Besides the way way CQ is constructed i dont think this would work. Besides the new TT patch starts some maps already completely owned by a team
  • WetFishDB
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    urban2544 wrote: »
    i say NO. I have seen this happen yet the other is able to break out and capture. Besides the way way CQ is constructed i dont think this would work. Besides the new TT patch starts some maps already completely owned by a team

    Yeah, I would suggest this is for Conquest, not Conquest Assault (although the latter ALREADY implements this mercy-rule for the attackers - in that if they capture all flags, then the team can only spawn on squad mates. Once the squad mates are dead that squad can't spawn. Once all squads are dead - game over - regardless of score.

    I've seen them break out and capture - but its always an utter demolishion job that's not much fun for most.
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