North Sea Update – Weapon balance - Feedback and discussion

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  • SlugSniper
    811 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    To the PO'd aggressive Scout players...

    M1903X got a buff.
    1895 Trench got a buff.
    Vetterli still kicks butt.
    Arisaka still kicks butt.

    The damage buffs have made automatic weapons noticeably easier to use, but not to the point of butchering balance. I feel like most of the unhappy "aggressive snipers" are the ones who just pop flares and wait in corners to shoot at point-blank range. That's not how your rifle is supposed to work, boi.

    Doesn't matter.

    M1903 still gets melted by every SMG except the Maxim. 1895 Trench is beat by every medic weapon and SMGs and most LMGs too... it's essentially a s****y version of the RSC. The other two are only strong in their sweetspot range, neither of which are truly aggressive ranges and are more semi-aggressive. The old times of playing scout, primarily with your rifle, aggressively like in previous Battlefield titles is dead. You're now a Pistolero if you want to compete on objectives as a scout. The main issue being the ridiculous buff assault received that it surely did not need. You can still PTFO as a scout (even though it is without a doubt harder now), but aggro scout is dead for anyone who isn't a masochist.

    I've been playing aggro scout since BF3, but I'm done with it now. Now I either sit 70+ meters away when I play scout or I use the RSC on medic.

    Then how have people like me been kicking butt with these weapons since the patch?
  • Sixclicks
    3886 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 11
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    To the PO'd aggressive Scout players...

    M1903X got a buff.
    1895 Trench got a buff.
    Vetterli still kicks butt.
    Arisaka still kicks butt.

    The damage buffs have made automatic weapons noticeably easier to use, but not to the point of butchering balance. I feel like most of the unhappy "aggressive snipers" are the ones who just pop flares and wait in corners to shoot at point-blank range. That's not how your rifle is supposed to work, boi.

    Doesn't matter.

    M1903 still gets melted by every SMG except the Maxim. 1895 Trench is beat by every medic weapon and SMGs and most LMGs too... it's essentially a s****y version of the RSC. The other two are only strong in their sweetspot range, neither of which are truly aggressive ranges and are more semi-aggressive. The old times of playing scout, primarily with your rifle, aggressively like in previous Battlefield titles is dead. You're now a Pistolero if you want to compete on objectives as a scout. The main issue being the ridiculous buff assault received that it surely did not need. You can still PTFO as a scout (even though it is without a doubt harder now), but aggro scout is dead for anyone who isn't a masochist.

    I've been playing aggro scout since BF3, but I'm done with it now. Now I either sit 70+ meters away when I play scout or I use the RSC on medic.

    Then how have people like me been kicking butt with these weapons since the patch?

    Because you're playing against bad players.

    Or catching them off guard.

    Let's just say I don't want to break any stat bashing rules.
  • KrugHerder
    79 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    To the PO'd aggressive Scout players...

    M1903X got a buff.
    1895 Trench got a buff.
    Vetterli still kicks butt.
    Arisaka still kicks butt.

    The damage buffs have made automatic weapons noticeably easier to use, but not to the point of butchering balance. I feel like most of the unhappy "aggressive snipers" are the ones who just pop flares and wait in corners to shoot at point-blank range. That's not how your rifle is supposed to work, boi.

    Doesn't matter.

    M1903 still gets melted by every SMG except the Maxim. 1895 Trench is beat by every medic weapon and SMGs and most LMGs too... it's essentially a s****y version of the RSC. The other two are only strong in their sweetspot range, neither of which are truly aggressive ranges and are more semi-aggressive. The old times of playing scout, primarily with your rifle, aggressively like in previous Battlefield titles is dead. You're now a Pistolero if you want to compete on objectives as a scout. The main issue being the ridiculous buff assault received that it surely did not need. You can still PTFO as a scout (even though it is without a doubt harder now), but aggro scout is dead for anyone who isn't a masochist.

    I've been playing aggro scout since BF3, but I'm done with it now. Now I either sit 70+ meters away when I play scout or I use the RSC on medic.

    Then how have people like me been kicking butt with these weapons since the patch?

    Exception to the norm, not an example of it.
  • thithersand
    3 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    The first days after the release I was worried that this was another patch that didn't work. Every game i played was a disaster. I got killed by snipers, medics and prone supports from a distance and got rekt by assaults on the objective. Now things have changed; I guess we had to adjust our gameplay, discover new weapons and get used to the new feel of the game.

    Now I play like before the patch but with different weapons, I think most players do. The difference is that I like it more! There’s more variety in weapons people use, the balance between classes is improved and i get more kills.

    Not everything is perfect; there is something wrong with the hit registration when you’re really close to an opponent and shoot him there is, very often, no registration.
  • SlugSniper
    811 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    To the PO'd aggressive Scout players...

    M1903X got a buff.
    1895 Trench got a buff.
    Vetterli still kicks butt.
    Arisaka still kicks butt.

    The damage buffs have made automatic weapons noticeably easier to use, but not to the point of butchering balance. I feel like most of the unhappy "aggressive snipers" are the ones who just pop flares and wait in corners to shoot at point-blank range. That's not how your rifle is supposed to work, boi.

    Doesn't matter.

    M1903 still gets melted by every SMG except the Maxim. 1895 Trench is beat by every medic weapon and SMGs and most LMGs too... it's essentially a s****y version of the RSC. The other two are only strong in their sweetspot range, neither of which are truly aggressive ranges and are more semi-aggressive. The old times of playing scout, primarily with your rifle, aggressively like in previous Battlefield titles is dead. You're now a Pistolero if you want to compete on objectives as a scout. The main issue being the ridiculous buff assault received that it surely did not need. You can still PTFO as a scout (even though it is without a doubt harder now), but aggro scout is dead for anyone who isn't a masochist.

    I've been playing aggro scout since BF3, but I'm done with it now. Now I either sit 70+ meters away when I play scout or I use the RSC on medic.

    Then how have people like me been kicking butt with these weapons since the patch?

    Because you're playing against bad players.

    Or catching them off guard.

    Let's just say I don't want to break any stat bashing rules.

    At least I play for fun instead of stats. :D

    Seriously, though. Aggressive Scouts are far from useless. I'm speaking from both the Scout's view and the non-Scout's view.
  • Sixclicks
    3886 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 11
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    To the PO'd aggressive Scout players...

    M1903X got a buff.
    1895 Trench got a buff.
    Vetterli still kicks butt.
    Arisaka still kicks butt.

    The damage buffs have made automatic weapons noticeably easier to use, but not to the point of butchering balance. I feel like most of the unhappy "aggressive snipers" are the ones who just pop flares and wait in corners to shoot at point-blank range. That's not how your rifle is supposed to work, boi.

    Doesn't matter.

    M1903 still gets melted by every SMG except the Maxim. 1895 Trench is beat by every medic weapon and SMGs and most LMGs too... it's essentially a s****y version of the RSC. The other two are only strong in their sweetspot range, neither of which are truly aggressive ranges and are more semi-aggressive. The old times of playing scout, primarily with your rifle, aggressively like in previous Battlefield titles is dead. You're now a Pistolero if you want to compete on objectives as a scout. The main issue being the ridiculous buff assault received that it surely did not need. You can still PTFO as a scout (even though it is without a doubt harder now), but aggro scout is dead for anyone who isn't a masochist.

    I've been playing aggro scout since BF3, but I'm done with it now. Now I either sit 70+ meters away when I play scout or I use the RSC on medic.

    Then how have people like me been kicking butt with these weapons since the patch?

    Because you're playing against bad players.

    Or catching them off guard.

    Let's just say I don't want to break any stat bashing rules.

    At least I play for fun instead of stats. :D

    Seriously, though. Aggressive Scouts are far from useless. I'm speaking from both the Scout's view and the non-Scout's view.


    Never said you don't play for fun instead of stats, but if you're going to claim that you're "kicking butt" with it, then I expect to see some stats to back that up.

    Not to mention the Russian 1895 Trench is the least used scout weapon in the game, and the M1903 Experimental is the 2nd least used scout weapon in the game.

    I've been playing scout aggressively since BF3. I've got plenty of experience with the class. While you still can play scout aggressively, you're far less effective than other classes for that and you will lose most fights against competent players of other classes who you aren't catching off guard or have some other advantage against such as them being injured or you being within the sweestpot of your rifle. You're simply not going to win against a Hellriegel user in close range unless you've got your Bodeo out, they miss a lot, they're already injured enough to be killed in one hit, or you headshot them.
  • HuwJarz
    3469 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    Then how have people like me been kicking butt with these weapons since the patch?

    What exactly is 'kicking butt' in your definition? You provide no examples or stats to back this up. For all we know, kicking butt in your world is getting to a K/D of 1.00. Try providing some evidence of it, else your post is worthless. A brag post without any facts.
  • SlugSniper
    811 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    HuwJarz wrote: »
    SlugSniper wrote: »
    Then how have people like me been kicking butt with these weapons since the patch?

    What exactly is 'kicking butt' in your definition? You provide no examples or stats to back this up. For all we know, kicking butt in your world is getting to a K/D of 1.00. Try providing some evidence of it, else your post is worthless. A brag post without any facts.

    It's not bragging; it's logic. Comparing weapons like the 1895 Trench to the RSC, sure, the RSC is better, but the 1895 can still give the Scout class a pretty awesome aggressive punch. The M1903X, while it might fall short of an SMG at closer ranges, can reach out a bit further thanks to its accuracy and damage.

    Can you provide some evidence that Agro-Scouting is "dead?"
  • Ferdinand_J_Foch
    2601 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    robmcewen wrote: »

    People who didn't like the gun play of BF1 will not come back they have left and moved on.

    So why did you DICE LA decide to annoy the people who like the game and have been playing the game from the beginning?

    Can we buy a patch to turn the game back to how it was like last march, when the worked and ran smoothly?

    But we all now we are just to talking to other forum users and the mods because it's apparent NO ONE FOR DICE WILL BOTHER TO READ ANY OF THIS.

    Even the moderators are starting to lose their cool over this. I suppose they are trying to get some level of control, and their way of doing this is to go after those that are criticising DICE LA. Oh well, I can't say that I blame them ... having to do this rather thankless job for free, and then seeing people getting angry at their pseudo-employers. If I was They must have had a massive level of patience to wait this long before snapping.

    You seem to be alright with the Chauchat, but I just can't get the hang of it now. I had 3000 kills with the Low Weight, but I've abandoned it now. I had some marginal success with the Telescopic variant, but now, the Madsen Trench is my near-permanent CQB LMG. In fact, the Madsen (and to some extent, the Lewis Gun and MG15) is the only LMG that I can be aggressive with.

    I'm playing much more conservatively, and often find myself locking down a position rather than rushing objectives as a Support. The chatbox gets filled with lines such as "Ferdinand camper", "you camping piece of ...", "Ferdinand cheater". You're calling me a camper? You're goddamn right I'm camping - it's the only smart way to play as a Support now. Play with the BAR or Madsen in close-range, only to lose against half-decent Assault players nine times out of ten. It's also weird how I keep getting called a cheater/hacker now - you tried to rush my Telescopic LMG from a distance and got mowed down every time ... what did you expect?
  • robmcewen
    2796 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    robmcewen wrote: »

    People who didn't like the gun play of BF1 will not come back they have left and moved on.

    So why did you DICE LA decide to annoy the people who like the game and have been playing the game from the beginning?

    Can we buy a patch to turn the game back to how it was like last march, when the worked and ran smoothly?

    But we all now we are just to talking to other forum users and the mods because it's apparent NO ONE FOR DICE WILL BOTHER TO READ ANY OF THIS.

    Even the moderators are starting to lose their cool over this. I suppose they are trying to get some level of control, and their way of doing this is to go after those that are criticising DICE LA. Oh well, I can't say that I blame them ... having to do this rather thankless job for free, and then seeing people getting angry at their pseudo-employers. If I was They must have had a massive level of patience to wait this long before snapping.

    You seem to be alright with the Chauchat, but I just can't get the hang of it now. I had 3000 kills with the Low Weight, but I've abandoned it now. I had some marginal success with the Telescopic variant, but now, the Madsen Trench is my near-permanent CQB LMG. In fact, the Madsen (and to some extent, the Lewis Gun and MG15) is the only LMG that I can be aggressive with.

    I'm playing much more conservatively, and often find myself locking down a position rather than rushing objectives as a Support. The chatbox gets filled with lines such as "Ferdinand camper", "you camping piece of ...", "Ferdinand cheater". You're calling me a camper? You're goddamn right I'm camping - it's the only smart way to play as a Support now. Play with the BAR or Madsen in close-range, only to lose against half-decent Assault players nine times out of ten. It's also weird how I keep getting called a cheater/hacker now - you tried to rush my Telescopic LMG from a distance and got mowed down every time ... what did you expect?

    I do think the mods do get the smelly end of the stick when DICE do their "improvements", having to deal with a lot angry people for free of charge, must be a bit of a headache for them. Especially when the dev's don't address or try and reply the community's concerns. But there have been many threads about this so I will leave it at that.

    When I was using the Chauchat it was on cape Helles I was able to pick off play from distance being a open map, did use the Telescopic variant on operations rupture but didn't have that much joy with it (I blame the thick fog, nothing to do with user error, honest)

    I've seen a few forum users saying they are getting a lot of hackusations and hat mail from people how don't know about the patch. I haven't got any yet which kind of makes me feel sad :'(.

    If your getting hat mail from scrubs Foch, you must be doing alright.
  • BrianLocal1
    365 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I don't know why they removed elites from war pigeons, they aren't even an issue anymore with new ttk bs
  • bigiain
    8 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I've got mixed feelings about the patch. The medic rifles are a lot of fun now, but it maybe speeds things up too much. The LMG change makes sense in a way and takes it back to the BF3 bi-pod camping death laser style which I actually liked. I'm struggling to adapt though and missing playing run and gun with an LMG and a limpet charge.

    Biggest complaint would be communication though. I'm seeing people getting slaughtered playing the support class, I'm guessing because they have no idea about the change if you're not fully aiming down the sights. It's a very drastic change to make to a game without any in game notification. These people will either drop the support class or the game. Hoping that casual players will look at forums or YouTube is a bit optimistic.
  • fatbasturd1500
    1 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I play the hardcore aim assist off servers and run and gun as support with the bar. My kd was usually around 25-10. Now I’m lucky if I break even. The only way to get a positive kd as support is to camp which I hate, but that’s what everybody is doing now. It’s just not fun anymore.
  • KrugHerder
    79 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    I play the hardcore aim assist off servers and run and gun as support with the bar. My kd was usually around 25-10. Now I’m lucky if I break even. The only way to get a positive kd as support is to camp which I hate, but that’s what everybody is doing now. It’s just not fun anymore.

    I noticed that playing a sniper support helped me get to the top of the scoreboard more often than before but I absolutely hate it. I can't understand how snipers do it, sitting on top of hills doing jack all to help the team. I like to directly fight for flags. If I want to do that now I have to play assault but I don't want to play assault. I want to play support. I LOVE playing support but I can't play it if I want to actually contribute to the team. They may as well change it's name from support to LMG sniper and give the ammo crates to assault.
  • Sed1Tion
    329 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Two weeks on and the "weapon balance" feels really bad. Its not the same game it was. I feel like I'm playing worse even when my score is really good.

    Why change the game so drastically after over a year.

    There is no way I will invest in the next Battlefield title after this. I don't trust the team to ruin it at some stage.

    Shame I really liked this game but will most likely be moving on.
  • AdrianKnott
    22 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    After playing numerous hours of this update it has definitely messed up the classes and gamemodes. The best weapons update DICE have done was during the time from December 2017 to this new TTK update. I love this game, but this update has made the game frustrating and not much fun. This needs to be rolled back, the game plays nothing like it did on the CTE, that actually felt ok. The random recoil is impossible to control on PS4, very inconsistent, lots of hit detection, sights off target 99% when crosshairs bang on. Obviously anyone can get used to it over time, but 100% has made the game boring, frustrating, no fun and a campers paradise. FIX IT!
  • noaccess4me2
    4 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Well a month later and a new patch and you didn't listen to any of our feed back and actually made the game worse.. Two big thumbs up.
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