Higher horizontal recoil or lower bullet damage?

2

Comments

  • ashar_saleem121
    1204 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I just don't understand what the point was of reducing the bullets to kill if you're just going to make the LMGs spray wildly everywhere while bipodded. That doesn't make them viable at all.

    And you can't "manage" horizontal recoil.
  • bran1986
    5019 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 2018
    BF1 LMGs are just garbage compared to previous games. Reverse spead? Who was the genius that thought of that AND decided to keep it after TTK was lowered for all other weapons? This mechanic, like you said artificially increases TTK because it makes player accuracy irrelevant and the hor. recoil is just the nail on the coffin for som weapons. The BAR post TTK 2.0 is garbage to me. Can't kill anything at range anymore because the gun bounces all over the place and in CQC the small magazine is a real hindrance.

    If anything LMGs should be reworked to make smaller mag capacity weapons into long range killers, fast firing, big mag LMGs should be mid range bullet hoses, and low ROF weapons s should be CQC oriented with higher aimed recoil, high damage, and decent hipfire accuracy.

    I actually think that the LMGs in this game perform better and are more popular than the ones in BF3/4. In BF3/4, LMGs were barely used, the bipod was somewhat tricky to set up, and were completely outdone by any assault rifle - you could even suppress with an assault rilfe, so you didn't need an LMG for that. The only place they were viable was when you had deployed the bipod on a chokepoint. Sometimes, people would opt for 'assault-rifle' style LMGs, or machine rifles/LSWs to be more precise, such as the AWS, RPK-12 and RPK-74; one could even say that the M2409 was a weapon with assault rifle characteristics and 200 rounds. Nobody, however, seriously used guns like the PPK and Type 88 LMGs, especially when you have an almighty M16A3/M416/AEK-971/ACE-23 as an alternative.

    I actually use LMGs more than anything else in this game, and find myself to be more effective here than I ever was with in BF3/4, even if the reverse spread mechanic is admittedly silly. BF3/4 had a very fast pace, which meant that sitting around with your bipoded LMG would only work on certain game modes, and attempting to run-and-gun with an LMG often got you annihilated by an Engineer/Assault.

    http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/FightinFinn187/weapons/1003873561/ps4/
    If I wasn't playing engineer I was running support in BF4. The LSAT, M249, M240, AWS, and MG4 were my favorites, in that order. The only one I actually used a bipod on was the M240. But since ttk2.0 I have been reluctant to use the support class unless I am running the Choutchat. If you set up the MG4/M249 with the right attachments they were CQB monsters.
    On one occasion I was punishing myself on Metro, don't know why. I was running the M249 with the Thermals, suppressor and stubby, we were trapped on the US side of B, next to the elevators. I pied the left corner and killed enemies as they were trying to use the stairs on the side. I fired the entire belt and ended up with 8 or 9 kills when it was said and done. You can't do that in BF1, gun will overheat before you kill that many and chances are you would be dead before you got close.
    I have that saved on my ps4. I should probably put that on a flash drive.

    Aye, it seems that you're rather good with LMGs in BF4. The only LMG that I did even remotely well with in that game was the M249 with a holo sight and bipod.

    I much preferred the Engineer class in BF3/4 for it's anti-vehicle roles, but I did try out other classes from time to time; Assault was for easy kills and medic trains, Recon was for camping on top of a hill or running around with a TUGS and a carbine, and Support was for blowing stuff up with C4 rather than using the LMGs to kill people with.

    Most of the time, when I'd run as Support, I'd get destroyed by an assault rifle or carbine, so I'd either use that M249 set-up, or use a shotgun/carbine myself.

    I really didn't like the feel of the lmgs in Battlefield 4 at all, I would just stick with the AK5c when playing engineer. On a side note, your obsession with medic trains knows no limits! You should have seen what me and @MachoFantast1c0 were doing with a third medic in our squad the other day....it was really, really dirty.
  • Ferdinand_J_Foch
    2728 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    BF1 LMGs are just garbage compared to previous games. Reverse spead? Who was the genius that thought of that AND decided to keep it after TTK was lowered for all other weapons? This mechanic, like you said artificially increases TTK because it makes player accuracy irrelevant and the hor. recoil is just the nail on the coffin for som weapons. The BAR post TTK 2.0 is garbage to me. Can't kill anything at range anymore because the gun bounces all over the place and in CQC the small magazine is a real hindrance.

    If anything LMGs should be reworked to make smaller mag capacity weapons into long range killers, fast firing, big mag LMGs should be mid range bullet hoses, and low ROF weapons s should be CQC oriented with higher aimed recoil, high damage, and decent hipfire accuracy.

    I actually think that the LMGs in this game perform better and are more popular than the ones in BF3/4. In BF3/4, LMGs were barely used, the bipod was somewhat tricky to set up, and were completely outdone by any assault rifle - you could even suppress with an assault rilfe, so you didn't need an LMG for that. The only place they were viable was when you had deployed the bipod on a chokepoint. Sometimes, people would opt for 'assault-rifle' style LMGs, or machine rifles/LSWs to be more precise, such as the AWS, RPK-12 and RPK-74; one could even say that the M2409 was a weapon with assault rifle characteristics and 200 rounds. Nobody, however, seriously used guns like the PPK and Type 88 LMGs, especially when you have an almighty M16A3/M416/AEK-971/ACE-23 as an alternative.

    I actually use LMGs more than anything else in this game, and find myself to be more effective here than I ever was with in BF3/4, even if the reverse spread mechanic is admittedly silly. BF3/4 had a very fast pace, which meant that sitting around with your bipoded LMG would only work on certain game modes, and attempting to run-and-gun with an LMG often got you annihilated by an Engineer/Assault.

    http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/FightinFinn187/weapons/1003873561/ps4/
    If I wasn't playing engineer I was running support in BF4. The LSAT, M249, M240, AWS, and MG4 were my favorites, in that order. The only one I actually used a bipod on was the M240. But since ttk2.0 I have been reluctant to use the support class unless I am running the Choutchat. If you set up the MG4/M249 with the right attachments they were CQB monsters.
    On one occasion I was punishing myself on Metro, don't know why. I was running the M249 with the Thermals, suppressor and stubby, we were trapped on the US side of B, next to the elevators. I pied the left corner and killed enemies as they were trying to use the stairs on the side. I fired the entire belt and ended up with 8 or 9 kills when it was said and done. You can't do that in BF1, gun will overheat before you kill that many and chances are you would be dead before you got close.
    I have that saved on my ps4. I should probably put that on a flash drive.

    Aye, it seems that you're rather good with LMGs in BF4. The only LMG that I did even remotely well with in that game was the M249 with a holo sight and bipod.

    I much preferred the Engineer class in BF3/4 for it's anti-vehicle roles, but I did try out other classes from time to time; Assault was for easy kills and medic trains, Recon was for camping on top of a hill or running around with a TUGS and a carbine, and Support was for blowing stuff up with C4 rather than using the LMGs to kill people with.

    Most of the time, when I'd run as Support, I'd get destroyed by an assault rifle or carbine, so I'd either use that M249 set-up, or use a shotgun/carbine myself.

    I really didn't like the feel of the lmgs in Battlefield 4 at all, I would just stick with the AK5c when playing engineer. On a side note, your obsession with medic trains knows no limits! You should have seen what me and @MachoFantast1c0 were doing with a third medic in our squad the other day....it was really, really dirty.

    I fear medic trains more than anything else in BF.

    A tank? Blow it up with an RPG, or use rocket guns to soften them up in BF1.

    An aircraft? Get to an SAA, or use a Stinger/RPG on those perky helicopters.

    A sniper? Flank him and shoot him in the back with your shotgun/carbine.

    An LMG user? Flank him, or get an easy headshot with a bolt-action rifle.

    An Engineer? Keep your distance, so that he's easy to kill.

    A medic train? A BLOODY MEDIC TRAIN?! CHECK A GRENADE AND RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!
  • MachoFantast1c0
    1794 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Yeah, if you discount round start, I don't think we spawned in once for eight matches or so. Absolutely disgusting. And Jackfrags thinks the Heavy Bomber is OP. /s

    But seriously, medic trains are not a thing in CQ. I've witnessed a handful of effective medic squads in 2k rounds, whereas in Domination they are plentiful and highly annoying to deal with. A couple of good medics alone do not turn matches, but they might tip the scales here and there.
  • Ferdinand_J_Foch
    2728 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Yeah, if you discount round start, I don't think we spawned in once for eight matches or so. Absolutely disgusting. And Jackfrags thinks the Heavy Bomber is OP. /s

    But seriously, medic trains are not a thing in CQ. I've witnessed a handful of effective medic squads in 2k rounds, whereas in Domination they are plentiful and highly annoying to deal with. A couple of good medics alone do not turn matches, but they might tip the scales here and there.

    They're surprisingly common on Operations ... I've sometimes seen hordes of medics heading towards the objectives in a match ... nothing but medics ... with their bloody needles and such ... you do your best to kill as many as possible, but they keep reviving one another ... almost unstoppable.

    I also encountered medic trains very frequently on Metro, Lockers and even Grand Bazaar.
  • kakooserrano
    17 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Please just give me back the support class as it was before TTK 2.0. I don't mind having to hit one more bullet. The way it is, is pretty much impossible to play as a mobile support. Either you get shot before waiting for the LMG to ADS or just die as you shoot anywhere if you start firing before ADS. The result: A bunch of hill humpers bipod snipers. It's just bad.
  • SirTerrible
    1352 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    BF1 LMGs are just garbage compared to previous games. Reverse spead? Who was the genius that thought of that AND decided to keep it after TTK was lowered for all other weapons? This mechanic, like you said artificially increases TTK because it makes player accuracy irrelevant and the hor. recoil is just the nail on the coffin for som weapons. The BAR post TTK 2.0 is garbage to me. Can't kill anything at range anymore because the gun bounces all over the place and in CQC the small magazine is a real hindrance.

    If anything LMGs should be reworked to make smaller mag capacity weapons into long range killers, fast firing, big mag LMGs should be mid range bullet hoses, and low ROF weapons s should be CQC oriented with higher aimed recoil, high damage, and decent hipfire accuracy.

    I actually think that the LMGs in this game perform better and are more popular than the ones in BF3/4. In BF3/4, LMGs were barely used, the bipod was somewhat tricky to set up, and were completely outdone by any assault rifle - you could even suppress with an assault rilfe, so you didn't need an LMG for that. The only place they were viable was when you had deployed the bipod on a chokepoint. Sometimes, people would opt for 'assault-rifle' style LMGs, or machine rifles/LSWs to be more precise, such as the AWS, RPK-12 and RPK-74; one could even say that the M2409 was a weapon with assault rifle characteristics and 200 rounds. Nobody, however, seriously used guns like the PPK and Type 88 LMGs, especially when you have an almighty M16A3/M416/AEK-971/ACE-23 as an alternative.

    I actually use LMGs more than anything else in this game, and find myself to be more effective here than I ever was with in BF3/4, even if the reverse spread mechanic is admittedly silly. BF3/4 had a very fast pace, which meant that sitting around with your bipoded LMG would only work on certain game modes, and attempting to run-and-gun with an LMG often got you annihilated by an Engineer/Assault.

    http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/FightinFinn187/weapons/1003873561/ps4/
    If I wasn't playing engineer I was running support in BF4. The LSAT, M249, M240, AWS, and MG4 were my favorites, in that order. The only one I actually used a bipod on was the M240. But since ttk2.0 I have been reluctant to use the support class unless I am running the Choutchat. If you set up the MG4/M249 with the right attachments they were CQB monsters.
    On one occasion I was punishing myself on Metro, don't know why. I was running the M249 with the Thermals, suppressor and stubby, we were trapped on the US side of B, next to the elevators. I pied the left corner and killed enemies as they were trying to use the stairs on the side. I fired the entire belt and ended up with 8 or 9 kills when it was said and done. You can't do that in BF1, gun will overheat before you kill that many and chances are you would be dead before you got close.
    I have that saved on my ps4. I should probably put that on a flash drive.

    Aye, it seems that you're rather good with LMGs in BF4. The only LMG that I did even remotely well with in that game was the M249 with a holo sight and bipod.

    I much preferred the Engineer class in BF3/4 for it's anti-vehicle roles, but I did try out other classes from time to time; Assault was for easy kills and medic trains, Recon was for camping on top of a hill or running around with a TUGS and a carbine, and Support was for blowing stuff up with C4 rather than using the LMGs to kill people with.

    Most of the time, when I'd run as Support, I'd get destroyed by an assault rifle or carbine, so I'd either use that M249 set-up, or use a shotgun/carbine myself.

    I really didn't like the feel of the lmgs in Battlefield 4 at all, I would just stick with the AK5c when playing engineer. On a side note, your obsession with medic trains knows no limits! You should have seen what me and @MachoFantast1c0 were doing with a third medic in our squad the other day....it was really, really dirty.

    I fear medic trains more than anything else in BF.

    A tank? Blow it up with an RPG, or use rocket guns to soften them up in BF1.

    An aircraft? Get to an SAA, or use a Stinger/RPG on those perky helicopters.

    A sniper? Flank him and shoot him in the back with your shotgun/carbine.

    An LMG user? Flank him, or get an easy headshot with a bolt-action rifle.

    An Engineer? Keep your distance, so that he's easy to kill.

    A medic train? A BLOODY MEDIC TRAIN?! CHECK A GRENADE AND RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

    Fire grenades help. Kill two people and chuck a grenade on their corpses. It'll at least buy you enough time to reload before the corpses stop burning and they get revived lol.

    Why did DICE undo all the balancing they did to make medic trains less effective in BF4? Lol.
  • MachoFantast1c0
    1794 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    They're surprisingly common on Operations ... I've sometimes seen hordes of medics heading towards the objectives in a match ... nothing but medics ... .

    True, Operations attacking they are really decisive. Didn't come to mind since I don't really enjoy Operations and rarely play it. Too much you-name-it farming.

  • Ram1c
    4167 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Please just give me back the support class as it was before TTK 2.0. I don't mind having to hit one more bullet. The way it is, is pretty much impossible to play as a mobile support. Either you get shot before waiting for the LMG to ADS or just die as you shoot anywhere if you start firing before ADS. The result: A bunch of hill humpers bipod snipers. It's just bad.

    No thank you, if I have to go up against assaults with their new ttk I'm not doing it with the old ttk.
  • ashar_saleem121
    1204 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Ram1c wrote: »
    Please just give me back the support class as it was before TTK 2.0. I don't mind having to hit one more bullet. The way it is, is pretty much impossible to play as a mobile support. Either you get shot before waiting for the LMG to ADS or just die as you shoot anywhere if you start firing before ADS. The result: A bunch of hill humpers bipod snipers. It's just bad.

    No thank you, if I have to go up against assaults with their new ttk I'm not doing it with the old ttk.

    At least then, you can just hang back with your accurate LMGs and mow them down from a distance. This way you can't do either.
  • Narcizeus
    96 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sigh...

    LMGs are fine.. learn to play..
  • FightinFinn187
    722 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Ohhh look, a git gud comment. How productive!
    giphy.gif
  • aseveredfoot
    2383 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I dunno, I really like the extra damage, there have been a few occasions where I can make a flank and get a quad feed with one BAR mag. It's glorious. But as for the recoil, the shots that miss from it will help suppress.

    Remember that shots you land on people do 0 suppression. Those times you landed 3-4 shots on a distant sniper and he OHKs you? That is why that happens, they get dealt 0 suppression even taking hits from machine guns. Enemies only get the scope jerk on the 3rd suppressing shot. So a few misses here and there may actually benefit you. Unfortunately the game is designed to reward inaccurate fire.

    And remember, if you're not running Pin Down, you're not playing support. I can't stress that point enough.
  • SirTerrible
    1352 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Pretty sure I don't have a single specialization unlocked on any system minus the ones that come unlocked by default lol.
  • aseveredfoot
    2383 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Pretty sure I don't have a single specialization unlocked on any system minus the ones that come unlocked by default lol.

    Unlock Pin Down, yesterday lol. The class is nearly unplayable without it. I started using it and it makes a world of difference, once you get the hang of the guns again, support plays almost exactly like it did before the patch.

    The real foe of support are medics now, with the extra suppression you can beat their accuracy buffed SLRs pretty easily.
  • SirTerrible
    1352 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I mostly just use the chauchat and I just single fire it like it's an SLR 90% of the time so I don't think I need Pin Down or anything like that. It's actually a pretty hilarious gun when you use it like that. It's surprisingly good.
  • BaronVonGoon
    6157 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Given that the support class now has higher bullet damage, theoretically it should take less bullets to kill thereby increasing the viability of the class.

    However, I've found that the increased horizontal recoil particularly while bipodded has made the LMGs overall less accurate. When you're missing more shots due to the un-controllable horizontal recoil, you increase the TTK anyway. If you say I should tap fire, that would defeat the recoil recovery mechanic of the LMGs as well as increase the TTK.

    I guess this really boils down to whether you prefer LMGs post or pre- TTK 2.0. I would rather have my shots land where I'm aiming, particularly when you're in a vulnerable bipodded position.

    Sorry, but I'm getting sniped by LMGs at 100 plus meters on a regular basis now. This never happened Pre-TTK 2.0. Empire's Edge and Fao Fortress are particularly bad about this.

    Sorry but this means it's your fault. Ttk is still high enough for to get out of the way often. 100 metres? You must be joking right? Unless you're in prone?
    I just don't understand what the point was of reducing the bullets to kill if you're just going to make the LMGs spray wildly everywhere while bipodded. That doesn't make them viable at all.

    .

    Seriously? What would you say if I tell you i probably have 0 bipoded kills with LMGs in the past 3 months? They're very viable without the bipod.
  • SirTerrible
    1352 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    You can reliably land your first burst when the bipod is out way more than you could before now that you have instant minimum spread. The heavier recoil LMGs are certainly trickier now though.
  • Ram1c
    4167 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Ram1c wrote: »
    Please just give me back the support class as it was before TTK 2.0. I don't mind having to hit one more bullet. The way it is, is pretty much impossible to play as a mobile support. Either you get shot before waiting for the LMG to ADS or just die as you shoot anywhere if you start firing before ADS. The result: A bunch of hill humpers bipod snipers. It's just bad.

    No thank you, if I have to go up against assaults with their new ttk I'm not doing it with the old ttk.

    At least then, you can just hang back with your accurate LMGs and mow them down from a distance. This way you can't do either.

    I do both already and did both pre ttk 2.0, I still get snipers now with the bipod down you just have to burst to control the recoil. Now when mgs are bipoded you start at minimum spread so bursting is the best for range, but if I had to use pre ttk 2.0 damage on mgs in cqc against how assaults are now i'd probably abandon the class. The ads nerf is annoying but I've already adapted to either waiting for my ads time to finish before firing or just going full hipfire.
  • ashar_saleem121
    1204 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I dunno, I really like the extra damage, there have been a few occasions where I can make a flank and get a quad feed with one BAR mag. It's glorious. But as for the recoil, the shots that miss from it will help suppress.

    Remember that shots you land on people do 0 suppression. Those times you landed 3-4 shots on a distant sniper and he OHKs you? That is why that happens, they get dealt 0 suppression even taking hits from machine guns. Enemies only get the scope jerk on the 3rd suppressing shot. So a few misses here and there may actually benefit you. Unfortunately the game is designed to reward inaccurate fire.

    And remember, if you're not running Pin Down, you're not playing support. I can't stress that point enough.

    I prefer unbreakable to combat incoming suppression. Allows me to stay on target.

    Of course none of that matters with the increased H recoil.
    Given that the support class now has higher bullet damage, theoretically it should take less bullets to kill thereby increasing the viability of the class.

    However, I've found that the increased horizontal recoil particularly while bipodded has made the LMGs overall less accurate. When you're missing more shots due to the un-controllable horizontal recoil, you increase the TTK anyway. If you say I should tap fire, that would defeat the recoil recovery mechanic of the LMGs as well as increase the TTK.

    I guess this really boils down to whether you prefer LMGs post or pre- TTK 2.0. I would rather have my shots land where I'm aiming, particularly when you're in a vulnerable bipodded position.

    Sorry, but I'm getting sniped by LMGs at 100 plus meters on a regular basis now. This never happened Pre-TTK 2.0. Empire's Edge and Fao Fortress are particularly bad about this.

    Sorry but this means it's your fault. Ttk is still high enough for to get out of the way often. 100 metres? You must be joking right? Unless you're in prone?
    I just don't understand what the point was of reducing the bullets to kill if you're just going to make the LMGs spray wildly everywhere while bipodded. That doesn't make them viable at all.

    .

    Seriously? What would you say if I tell you i probably have 0 bipoded kills with LMGs in the past 3 months? They're very viable without the bipod.

    Of course theyre viable. They were viable before the patch too though. My question is, what's the point of upping the bullet damage if you're just going to make me miss more anyway? How does that reduce the overall TTK? It's 6 of one half a dozen of the other.
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