Weekly Debrief

Remove the bi-pod from the Support class

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MemesterChief
96 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
I love the Support class, I play it almost exclusively. That said, as I sat with my parabellum bi-poded behind some crates melting anyone willing to sacrifice their lives in the futile attempt of playing the objective or returning fire it occured to me that, outside of boredom, the Support class lacks any incentive to not camp with a bi-pod. My ADS time is slower than other classes, especially with a scope, so while running and gunning is viable, I'm putting myself at a disadvantage even with low-ttk LMGs. Not to mention how the LMG starts off inaccurate and gets more accurate over time, meaning that at range my first shots are going to miss while the enemy's hit. Don't have either of these issues with a bi-pod, and in fact if I'm being honest outside of indirect fire/vehicles there's very, very few reasonable ways someone is going to walk away victorious vs a bi-poded LMG. Thus, the Support class offers an enormous advantage for camping with a bi-pod and a relative disadvntage compared to other classes when not bi-poded. The result is that Support is forced into being a bi-poded camping class to be most effective. I suggest an across the board nerf to bi-pod accuracy for the Support class while reverting LMGs to their prior ADS time so they can more effectively engage in straight fights.

Comments

  • Lmaousine
    144 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    But then no one would complain that support guns are laser death beams...
  • V2Face
    2664 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I love the Support class, I play it almost exclusively. That said, as I sat with my parabellum bi-poded behind some crates melting anyone willing to sacrifice their lives in the futile attempt of playing the objective or returning fire it occured to me that, outside of boredom, the Support class lacks any incentive to not camp with a bi-pod. My ADS time is slower than other classes, especially with a scope, so while running and gunning is viable, I'm putting myself at a disadvantage even with low-ttk LMGs. Not to mention how the LMG starts off inaccurate and gets more accurate over time, meaning that at range my first shots are going to miss while the enemy's hit. Don't have either of these issues with a bi-pod, and in fact if I'm being honest outside of indirect fire/vehicles there's very, very few reasonable ways someone is going to walk away victorious vs a bi-poded LMG. Thus, the Support class offers an enormous advantage for camping with a bi-pod and a relative disadvntage compared to other classes when not bi-poded. The result is that Support is forced into being a bi-poded camping class to be most effective. I suggest an across the board nerf to bi-pod accuracy for the Support class while reverting LMGs to their prior ADS time so they can more effectively engage in straight fights.

    You have to learn to adjust. DICE wants supports to be more like their class name and lay down fire and take up strategic spots to do so. I can still run and gun with support you just have to pick a fast firing LMG designed for CQB and not rely too heavily on ADS when within 5 m of a target.
  • Puckerbucket
    694 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Remove bipods from LMGs. Remove scopes from sniper rifles. Get rid of bandage pouches, and those pesky anti-tank grenades. Problem solved.
  • MemesterChief
    96 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    V2Face wrote: »

    You have to learn to adjust. DICE wants supports to be more like their class name and lay down fire and take up strategic spots to do so. I can still run and gun with support you just have to pick a fast firing LMG designed for CQB and not rely too heavily on ADS when within 5 m of a target.

    Oh, I've adjusted. Don't get me wrong. I have no issues getting enormous killstreaks on enemies across the map with the m1917, or blasting through an alleyway with my bi-poded parabellum ripping through scores of enemies in seconds. What I'm saying is the support class is too good at this role, and at too much of a disadvantage outside of it.

  • IIRogueMachineII
    1337 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 2018
    I have no problem with that, especially on the Low Weight variant. Bipods on the Telescopic or Suppressive variants. To be used on as intended, mid range suppressive fire. Little point having a bipod on the IMG 08/18 low weight in my view as its a good LMG to be used rambo/run and gun.
  • Lowlandnutria92
    47 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    you do know the bipod like instantly makes them a sniper target right?
  • TheGM86
    784 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I love the Support class, I play it almost exclusively. That said, as I sat with my parabellum bi-poded behind some crates melting anyone willing to sacrifice their lives in the futile attempt of playing the objective or returning fire it occured to me that, outside of boredom, the Support class lacks any incentive to not camp with a bi-pod.
    So because you lack the sufficient mental deposits to employ the bi-pod in a offensive manner it should be removed entirely? I put forth the counter notion that you invest all energies in attaining higher levels of aptitude at support use.
  • theONEFORCE
    2843 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 2018
    While I get killed by a support on a bipod now it kind of annoys me but at the same time I know there are probably supports on bipods on my team clearing the path for me to objectives and most importantly fighting scouts which is a new thing they can do.
    Post edited by theONEFORCE on
  • skates15
    453 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I play support exclusively and I find the weapons to be slightly better close quarters after TTK update. The long range action is about the same and by no means am I getting monster kills with a bipod weapon. I am however getting a few more kills up close as the TTK is improved and this helps with aggressive style play.

    All the whining about TTK is all you hear about in the forums.

    If the bipod LMG was such a monster, most people would use them and this just isn't the case. Support is one of the least loved classes in the game and the hardest to master, so I find the TTK 2.0 to be a SLIGHT improvement, nothing more.
  • MemesterChief
    96 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TheGM86 wrote: »
    So because you lack the sufficient mental deposits to employ the bi-pod in a offensive manner it should be removed entirely? I put forth the counter notion that you invest all energies in attaining higher levels of aptitude at support use.
    Rudely worded. As aforementioned, I have no issues deploying the bipod. This isn't anecdotal. I can deploy the bipod on an m1917 and laser down targets at 500m no issue just like I can also rush the objective, plant my parabellum or 08 down for close-mid range slaughter and I can even run and gun with the parabellum and melt automaticos in CQC leading to hate mail. The problem is that the Support class is too good when bipoded and too poor when not using the bi-pod to the point Support have little incentive to not use it. And because you can only use it when standing still, by association Support have little incentive not to move once they're set-up. I hope I've made this more clear for you.

  • BaconRebellion
    2443 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TheGM86 wrote: »
    So because you lack the sufficient mental deposits to employ the bi-pod in a offensive manner it should be removed entirely? I put forth the counter notion that you invest all energies in attaining higher levels of aptitude at support use.
    Rudely worded. As aforementioned, I have no issues deploying the bipod. This isn't anecdotal. I can deploy the bipod on an m1917 and laser down targets at 500m no issue just like I can also rush the objective, plant my parabellum or 08 down for close-mid range slaughter and I can even run and gun with the parabellum and melt automaticos in CQC leading to hate mail. The problem is that the Support class is too good when bipoded and too poor when not using the bi-pod to the point Support have little incentive to not use it. And because you can only use it when standing still, by association Support have little incentive not to move once they're set-up. I hope I've made this more clear for you.

    What they should do is make the LMGs do a bit better in run n gun mode than they are now, and take a page from (and I cant believe Im saying this) COD WW2 book when it comes to the bipod. Make it so its not automatically deployed BUT it has to be manually deployed in order to use it. You also have to breaknit down manually if you want to leave from your bipoded spot. So something like press A to deploy bipod. Press A again to exit bipod.
  • CSO7777
    1308 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 2018
    The parabellum with the bipod was a monster before the TTK2-patch. The problem were the other lmg's. A lot of the lmgs were pretty "bad" and you had very few options to choose from. TTK2 made more lmgs viable in real life (they all work at least ok now).

    Also, the scope on lmgs makes sense now, before the patch is was not really very usefull. You could kill snipers with scoped LMGs, but any sniper with half a brain could easily move/take cover before dying. This has changed for the better now and scouts still have a chance.

    I think that Dice actually did a good job with TTK2, if it was done in any other way, they would have gotten far more issues with balancing. They couldn't just buff a few lmgs (they all needed buffs), that would "destroy" medics, so they also had to buff medics, and then the lmg/slr buff would give assault an disadvantage in CQC, so they had to buff assaults as well. Done any other way would be much worse than what we have now. Only issue is that it should have been like this from the beginning, then nobody would have whined on the forums.
  • WeylandYutaniCo
    28 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited March 2018
    TheGM86 wrote: »


    What they should do is make the LMGs do a bit better in run n gun mode than they are now, and take a page from (and I cant believe Im saying this) COD WW2 book when it comes to the bipod. Make it so its not automatically deployed BUT it has to be manually deployed in order to use it. You also have to breaknit down manually if you want to leave from your bipoded spot. So something like press A to deploy bipod. Press A again to exit bipod.

    Actually that’s a note from BF4, furthermore, you also had a limited aim cone and were immobile until you manually retracted the bipod.

  • Tactical_wizzzeR
    321 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    remove scopes from Scout class.

    ohh wait...
  • MemesterChief
    96 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    There seems to be some confusion here. I'm not asking for the Support class to be nerfed because bipods are too good. I'm asking for the effectiveness of bipods to be reduced but Support's run and gun ability to be returned to pre-ttk 2.0 levels. I main Support...I'm the one doing all the bipod killstreak stuff...it isn't a nerf thread...
  • theONEFORCE
    2843 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 2018
    There seems to be some confusion here. I'm not asking for the Support class to be nerfed because bipods are too good. I'm asking for the effectiveness of bipods to be reduced but Support's run and gun ability to be returned to pre-ttk 2.0 levels. I main Support...I'm the one doing all the bipod killstreak stuff...it isn't a nerf thread...

    If you don't want a nerf then why do you want the run and gun ability returned to pre TTK 2.0 levels? The Run and Gun ability is better now so to take it back would be a nerf. Also, reducing the effectiveness of the bipod would also be a nerf.
  • MemesterChief
    96 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    There seems to be some confusion here. I'm not asking for the Support class to be nerfed because bipods are too good. I'm asking for the effectiveness of bipods to be reduced but Support's run and gun ability to be returned to pre-ttk 2.0 levels. I main Support...I'm the one doing all the bipod killstreak stuff...it isn't a nerf thread...

    If you don't want a nerf then why do you want the run and gun ability returned to pre TTK 2.0 levels? The Run and Gun ability is better now so to take it back would be a nerf. Also, reducing the effectiveness of the bipod would also be a nerf.

    TTK 2.0 brought about an increase to the LMG ADS time. Fairly mild for iron sights, awful for scopes. Not so good when that split second it takes you to sight in is enough time for many weapons to kill you before you even begin to fire. Anyway, I don't see how reverting this change is a nerf at all to running and gunning?

  • BaconRebellion
    2443 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TheGM86 wrote: »


    What they should do is make the LMGs do a bit better in run n gun mode than they are now, and take a page from (and I cant believe Im saying this) COD WW2 book when it comes to the bipod. Make it so its not automatically deployed BUT it has to be manually deployed in order to use it. You also have to breaknit down manually if you want to leave from your bipoded spot. So something like press A to deploy bipod. Press A again to exit bipod.

    Actually that’s a note from BF4, furthermore, you also had a limited aim cone and were immobile until you manually retracted the bipod.

    Barely played BF 4, so idk the mechanics of it. Just know this mechanic from COD WW2. Still, I think that would be something that they should/should've implemented. Prone bipod LMGs are basically laser accurate, and will kill you faster than you know whats going on or where youre being shot from. If they had a limited cone of movement, and were immobile until they retracted the bipod, then I think that would help out with how good they are on the bipod. They can keep the damage and accuracy the way it is now, but give them a limited cone and render them immobile until they retract is. That way there would be an opportunity to combat prone support players. Right now, theres really no good way of combating them unless youre a scout, or a medic with a sniper SLR. And even then they cant always be the counter.
  • TheGM86
    784 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TheGM86 wrote: »


    What they should do is make the LMGs do a bit better in run n gun mode than they are now, and take a page from (and I cant believe Im saying this) COD WW2 book when it comes to the bipod. Make it so its not automatically deployed BUT it has to be manually deployed in order to use it. You also have to breaknit down manually if you want to leave from your bipoded spot. So something like press A to deploy bipod. Press A again to exit bipod.

    Actually that’s a note from BF4, furthermore, you also had a limited aim cone and were immobile until you manually retracted the bipod.

    I never said that. I'm calling Shenanigans.
  • KrugHerder
    79 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited March 2018
    The only thing LMGs ever needed were small damage buffs. They didn't need to be fully automatic snipers and they didn't need the ADS or recoil nerfs, most of all the ADS nerf. I might consider actually playing again if it wasn't for that. Revert all the TTK2.0 nonsense and we wouldn't have a thread like this. The bipod would be back where it was before the patch (which was perfectly fine) and CQC wouldn't be such a **** show. There's no way you can say LMGs are better up close with the unbipoded recoil and the soil crushingly slow ADS times. Just because a couple outliers can hipfire their way to victory with a select few of the LMGs doesn't mean the entire class is the perfect example of balance.
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