TTK 2.0 is live!!

Comments

  • shaunlake1344
    546 postsMember, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    HuwJarz wrote: »

    It seems the trend statement here on the forums is: "my k/d has gone up, but I'm having less fun so I'm playing less". Ok.

    I agree - that's just pride though. I can assure you that there are probably many like me too: My K/D has gone down: I was at circa 2.8 - 3.0 in te month pre TTK at now I am at 2.0 -2.2. A large decrease. And I hate the TTK changes.

    Its a twitch game now.

    My KD has stayed the same. However in order to keep it like that I'm playing much slower and much campier. I'm also using long range weapons far more. I know everyone's saying it but it feels so much more like COD. It's just too risky being out in the open, you get cut down with no time to do anything. It's made charging round the map so much more dangerous and it's made lag problems more noticable. It's vastly reduced the movement, skill and creativity that attracted me to battlefield in the first place and I can't work out for the life of me why they've done it.
  • DonSharkito
    756 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited March 13

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks
      1 This issue is existent for a long time and well before TTK 2.0. The TTK patch was not meant to solve this. 2. Disagreed. For example previously the Hellriegel was overused and was a better all rounder than any other SMGs. Post patch almost all of the other SMGs were comparatively more improved than the Hellriegel, making them more interesting to use than previously. The only outlier was the SMG08 which was still lacking, and was changed recently. Also for example the Huot which was comparatively one of the worst LMGs in the past is a lot more interesting choice now. 3. Making bipodded support weapons better is in a sense making unpopular weapons better. A lot of LMGS were pea shooters previously and are more interesting to use now. Running and gunning supports were not nerfed. If you are running with a telescopic variant I can understand that, but you should have no problem doing that with a lot of LMGS (bar, chauchat, madsen, parabellum and IMG08). 4. I don't know if it has increased skill ceiling as a lot of people seems to think the contrary. I have seen a lot of stomping and people leaving servers not because of this reason. But because either the game fails to balance the teams after the round (not switching players between teams or making new players join the fullest team making the start of a round something like 20 vs 32), or because you have a few platoons squads pubstomping. Anyway steamrolling is not fun, wether being on the winning or losing side, and I tend to leave a server where this happens a few times. 5. I agree with that to some extent but at the end of the day that's a player issue. There is still a lot of players ptfoing. What I have noticed though that there a lot of recent low-mid level players, and whichever team gets the most of them will be camping the most. Again this is a balancing issue and not related to TTK. 6. Some players who are camping will do it with whatever tool they have available, the bippoded support being a recent addition. This was consistently in the game before the patch. 7. What movement changes? The only change was the slide. If you were not abusing it it should not have an impact on your gameplay. The AA buff is a myth, it was confirmed by developers that there were no changes. It's only up to you if you can flank successfully or take down 2 enemies, it has nothing to do with the TTK update. 8. Haven't seen anything different here compared to pre patch.
  • DonSharkito
    756 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    1. This issue is existent since a long time.
    2. Disagreed. For example the hellriegel was the most used and best all rounder SMGs. The patch improved comparatively more the other SMGs vs the hellriegel. The SMG08 was still bad even with the new TTK, they changed it recently. Another example is the Huot which was one of the worst LMGs and which is more interesting to use now.
    3. Improving the bippoded support weapons is in a sense improving the unpopular/bad weapons which were peashooters previously. Running and gunning support was not nerfed. Unless you are using a telescopic variant, a lot of LMGs should seal the deal (bar, chauchat, madsen, parabellum, IMG08).
    4. A lot of people think the contrary on the skill ceiling. I noticed the stomping issues happens in most cases when the game doesn't balance (switching players between teams at the end of the round, adding joining players to the full team making a 20 vs 32 round) or when some platoon squads are pubstomping. It has nothing to do with TTK. Anyway being on the giving or receiving end of a stomp is not funny and I tend to leave a server where this happens.
    5. A player camping will do it with whatever tool he has available, with the support bippod being a new addition.
    6. To some extent true, but it is the players fault at the of the day. There is still a lot of people ptfoing. I have noticed recently that there is a lot of low-mid level players (who started the game probably recently) and whichever team gets the most of them will be the one static/camping. This has nothing to do with TTK and more with balancing.
    7. What movement changes? Only the slide was changed, and if you were not over abusing it you should have no problem to play the game as before. The AA was not buffed, it is a myth as confirmed by developers themselves. If you cannot flank succesfully or kill 2 enemies in front of you that's up to you and nothing to do with TTK.
    8. Haven't noticed any changes here compared to pre patch.
  • VBALL_MVP
    5755 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.
  • theONEFORCE
    2643 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    .
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    All I see now that the patch is a month behind us are people PTFOing with all classes and people camping and not PTFOing with all classes in similar distribution to how I experienced it pre-patch. Oddly, we must just end up in the matches where only things happen that prove our side of the argument. Weird.
  • azelenkin0306
    365 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited March 13

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    1. This issue is existent since a long time.
    2. Disagreed. For example the hellriegel was the most used and best all rounder SMGs. The patch improved comparatively more the other SMGs vs the hellriegel. The SMG08 was still bad even with the new TTK, they changed it recently. Another example is the Huot which was one of the worst LMGs and which is more interesting to use now.
    3. Improving the bippoded support weapons is in a sense improving the unpopular/bad weapons which were peashooters previously. Running and gunning support was not nerfed. Unless you are using a telescopic variant, a lot of LMGs should seal the deal (bar, chauchat, madsen, parabellum, IMG08).
    4. A lot of people think the contrary on the skill ceiling. I noticed the stomping issues happens in most cases when the game doesn't balance (switching players between teams at the end of the round, adding joining players to the full team making a 20 vs 32 round) or when some platoon squads are pubstomping. It has nothing to do with TTK. Anyway being on the giving or receiving end of a stomp is not funny and I tend to leave a server where this happens.
    5. A player camping will do it with whatever tool he has available, with the support bippod being a new addition.
    6. To some extent true, but it is the players fault at the of the day. There is still a lot of people ptfoing. I have noticed recently that there is a lot of low-mid level players (who started the game probably recently) and whichever team gets the most of them will be the one static/camping. This has nothing to do with TTK and more with balancing.
    7. What movement changes? Only the slide was changed, and if you were not over abusing it you should have no problem to play the game as before. The AA was not buffed, it is a myth as confirmed by developers themselves. If you cannot flank succesfully or kill 2 enemies in front of you that's up to you and nothing to do with TTK.
    8. Haven't noticed any changes here compared to pre patch.

    Well, then what’s the point of this patch, if almost nothing has changed? :)

    They spent 6 months just to buff Huot and nerf Hellriegel? Well, if they listened to the community, then they would save couple of months by just making Hellriegel overheat and slightly increasing the Huot damage

    Not sure about other LMGs, but Madsen Storm ( I have 33 Service Stars with it) has become much worse after TTK2.0

    Thanks
    Post edited by azelenkin0306 on
  • azelenkin0306
    365 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    Good players became even better, because they were good before the patch. Average players became much worse, because - see the first sentence :)

    If you die constantly it’s not fun. PTFOing is risky, because good players usually PTFO. Camping is much safer and thus people camp
  • The_BERG_366
    1607 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Also, it is supposed to be a team based game. That's kind of how BF has always been touted. With that in mind, why should you be able to reasonably engage large groups of players by yourself anyway? Move with your squad to engage such a large threat. Walking into a room and getting gunned down because the enemy overwhelms you, regardless of skill, doesn't seem to be an issue to me... it seems more like you made the stupid choice to walk into a room full of enemies without support.

    This is how previous Battlefields used to be(pre Bad Company).If you went lone wolf you were punished as the game was supposed to be about teamwork. Now DICE LA decided to give assaults OP weapons that are stupid easy to use with huge magazine capacities so they can all go play Rambo without any real thought when it comes to engagements.

    Yeah in bf gunskill shouldn't matter and there should be no skillgap. it should be just about chance how many players there are. lol

    seriously though, in this game is masses of enemies are already ways harder to deal with than in previous titles and u guys still complain? are u serious?
  • VBALL_MVP
    5755 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    Good players became even better, because they were good before the patch. Average players became much worse, because - see the first sentence :)

    If you die constantly it’s not fun. PTFOing is risky, because good players usually PTFO. Camping is much safer and thus people camp

    That really doesn't explain how TTK increased the skill gap.

    I don't see how this patch made things more skillfull. Pre-patch, in my opinion, had a more aggressive play which in turn required skill and knowledge since you had to get your shots right. Now it's grab an smg for a fast kill or camp in a corner.
    .
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    All I see now that the patch is a month behind us are people PTFOing with all classes and people camping and not PTFOing with all classes in similar distribution to how I experienced it pre-patch. Oddly, we must just end up in the matches where only things happen that prove our side of the argument. Weird.

    I'll disagree. The game has changed dramatically. The question that still is on my mind is with the list of all things that needed improvement....TTK was nowhere near the top. I don't understand the necessity in applying this to the game so late in it's life.
  • BaronVonGoon
    4455 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Also, it is supposed to be a team based game. That's kind of how BF has always been touted. With that in mind, why should you be able to reasonably engage large groups of players by yourself anyway? Move with your squad to engage such a large threat. Walking into a room and getting gunned down because the enemy overwhelms you, regardless of skill, doesn't seem to be an issue to me... it seems more like you made the stupid choice to walk into a room full of enemies without support.

    This is how previous Battlefields used to be(pre Bad Company).If you went lone wolf you were punished as the game was supposed to be about teamwork. Now DICE LA decided to give assaults OP weapons that are stupid easy to use with huge magazine capacities so they can all go play Rambo without any real thought when it comes to engagements.

    Yeah in bf gunskill shouldn't matter and there should be no skillgap. it should be just about chance how many players there are. lol

    seriously though, in this game is masses of enemies are already ways harder to deal with than in previous titles and u guys still complain? are u serious?

    Some have come right out and said it in this very thread that gunplay should be made to cater to the casual playerbase to make it easier to take on the skilled players.
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    Good players became even better, because they were good before the patch. Average players became much worse, because - see the first sentence :)

    If you die constantly it’s not fun. PTFOing is risky, because good players usually PTFO. Camping is much safer and thus people camp

    Loool you anti ttk 2.0 folks can't seem to decide whether ttk 2.0 increased or decreased the skill gap.
  • azelenkin0306
    365 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    Good players became even better, because they were good before the patch. Average players became much worse, because - see the first sentence :)

    If you die constantly it’s not fun. PTFOing is risky, because good players usually PTFO. Camping is much safer and thus people camp

    That really doesn't explain how TTK increased the skill gap.

    I don't see how this patch made things more skillfull. Pre-patch, in my opinion, had a more aggressive play which in turn required skill and knowledge since you had to get your shots right. Now it's grab an smg for a fast kill or camp in a corner.
    .
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    All I see now that the patch is a month behind us are people PTFOing with all classes and people camping and not PTFOing with all classes in similar distribution to how I experienced it pre-patch. Oddly, we must just end up in the matches where only things happen that prove our side of the argument. Weird.

    I'll disagree. The game has changed dramatically. The question that still is on my mind is with the list of all things that needed improvement....TTK was nowhere near the top. I don't understand the necessity in applying this to the game so late in it's life.

    Sorry, maybe we misunderstood each other (English is not my native language). I didn't mean that TTK patch made the game more skillful, I wanted to say that this TTK patch made game easier for Skilled players and harder for less skilled players.

    I liked previous TTK. This was one of the main reasons I've bought this game. Gunfights were intense, required good Aiming and leading targets. You always had a chance to find cover and fight back or at least try to.

    Maybe "Skill ceiling" was not the right term for this. But I hope you got my point.

  • VBALL_MVP
    5755 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    Good players became even better, because they were good before the patch. Average players became much worse, because - see the first sentence :)

    If you die constantly it’s not fun. PTFOing is risky, because good players usually PTFO. Camping is much safer and thus people camp

    That really doesn't explain how TTK increased the skill gap.

    I don't see how this patch made things more skillfull. Pre-patch, in my opinion, had a more aggressive play which in turn required skill and knowledge since you had to get your shots right. Now it's grab an smg for a fast kill or camp in a corner.
    .
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    All I see now that the patch is a month behind us are people PTFOing with all classes and people camping and not PTFOing with all classes in similar distribution to how I experienced it pre-patch. Oddly, we must just end up in the matches where only things happen that prove our side of the argument. Weird.

    I'll disagree. The game has changed dramatically. The question that still is on my mind is with the list of all things that needed improvement....TTK was nowhere near the top. I don't understand the necessity in applying this to the game so late in it's life.

    Sorry, maybe we misunderstood each other (English is not my native language). I didn't mean that TTK patch made the game more skillful, I wanted to say that this TTK patch made game easier for Skilled players and harder for less skilled players.

    I liked previous TTK. This was one of the main reasons I've bought this game. Gunfights were intense, required good Aiming and leading targets. You always had a chance to find cover and fight back or at least try to.

    Maybe "Skill ceiling" was not the right term for this. But I hope you got my point.

    Yeah got it now. Thanks for clarifying.
  • FightinFinn187
    715 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    L
    dbibby1988 wrote: »
    To be honest, Ive found myself playing less BF1 over the last few weeks. .

    Yeah alot of that going around. It seems the trend statement here on the forums is: "my k/d has gone up, but I'm having less fun so I'm playing less". Ok.

    My KDR really has increased though.

    Before Patch:
    Patch_Day.png

    Currently:
    Current_Day.png

    Over my past few recent sessions my average KDR has been 4.58. I've been pretty consistently above a 3.0 since the update.

    Doing better doesn't necessarily mean you're having as much fun.

    Again, let’s get to the meat and bones of TTK 2.0, 2 assault SMGs have caused this community to implode.

    I've been saying this since the first day LA announced the new ttk. Assault didn't need any buffs because of being the strongest class in the game.

    And I won't disagree. The Hellreigel and the SMG08 didn't need to be buffed. Technically the SMG08 didn't get buffed, it got reworked. Making them stronger in CQB wasn't necessary.

    But the Hellreigel was one of the kings of CQB anyway prior to TTK 2.0. The buff didnt really change the Hellreigel much. SMG08 is a different story, I mean is it considered a buff, I'd call it a rework. We already had a Hellreigel, we didn't need a second. Its redundant.

    Point is these two do the same thing. TTK 2.0 didn't change the Hellreigel all that much, definitely doesn't warrant the all the craziness that's taken over the forum since the patch.
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    L
    dbibby1988 wrote: »
    To be honest, Ive found myself playing less BF1 over the last few weeks. .

    Yeah alot of that going around. It seems the trend statement here on the forums is: "my k/d has gone up, but I'm having less fun so I'm playing less". Ok.

    My KDR really has increased though.

    Before Patch:
    Patch_Day.png

    Currently:
    Current_Day.png

    Over my past few recent sessions my average KDR has been 4.58. I've been pretty consistently above a 3.0 since the update.

    Doing better doesn't necessarily mean you're having as much fun.

    Oh I know. My intention in making that statement wasn’t to imply that people should have more fun if their k/d goes up. I was simply just paraphrasing the general consensus around here.

    My point was we've seen so much content since September, yet people are complaining about such a small change (TTK 2.0). It simply isn’t that big of a change.

    Again:
    Scout wasn’t touched.
    Medic range was buffed and no one complained.
    Support was buffed and nerfed. A wash?
    Assault had shotguns and the MP18 buffed, no one complained.
    Assault had the Hellreigel and SMG 08 buffed.

    If you put the whole TTK 2.0 patch into perspective, don't you come to the same conclusion? That the hate isn’t warranted? People are constantly posting about a theory that low TTK is bad, rarely do they touch on what actually transpired in TTK 2.0. Again, let’s get to the meat and bones of TTK 2.0, 2 assault SMGs have caused this community to implode.

    TTK 2.0 was anything but small. It was a larger re-balance than what BF4 experienced. Just because it isn't a big deal to you doesn't make it trivial.

    Then put it into perspective, like I did. Go class by class and illustrate how it changes the game that much.

    You made the outlandish claim, you hold burden of proof, not me.

    And I did. Let me expand. Generally speaking, the forum implosion is related to the idea that low TTK is bad. Lets delve into the changes from the TTK 2.0 patch:

    1)
    -Automatico and Machinepistole didn't get buffed.
    -MP18 and shotguns were buffed.
    -SLR range and spread were buffed.

    There have been ZERO threads complaining about any of the changes above.

    2)
    Scout wasn't touched in this patch. There was one notable thread complaining that sniper rifles weren't buffed in TTK 2.0. Really.

    3)
    LMG changes:
    Nerf to recoil.
    Nerf to ADS times.
    Buff to BTK.

    Based on this, I've seen very little complaining about the BTK buff. Quite a few posts supporting the BTK buff to the likes of the Benet Mercie, Huot, MG15, Perino and 1907.

    4)
    The Hellreigel BTK was buffed.
    The SMG08 was reworked. Its now Hellreigel 2.0, stronger in CQB than the Hellreigel but worse at range.

    Based on all of the above and the subjects people have been complaining about since TTK 2.0, what conclusion would one logically reach?

    The conclusion I've reached is:
    1)People are unhappy about the Hellreigel/SMG08 buff. I don’t disagree at all, it didn’t need a buff. BUT think about it, how much did the Hellreigel change? How effective was the TTK 2.0 patch at improving/buffing the Hellreigel? Not all that effective. The Hellreigel was strong in CQB, its now stronger. Really, is this worth all the complaining?

    2)People dislike the idea of a low TTK. Understandable. But not all that relevant to the TTK 2.0 changes. Based on all of the above, did low TTK really define the changes that were made under TTK 2.0 ?

    So when we put things into perspective, why all the hate for TTK 2.0? It doesn’t make sense AT ALL. No one has given any good reason with examples rather than generalization why TTK 2.0 is bad.


    Like said if we get to the meat and bones of TTK 2.0, 2 buffs to assault SMGs have caused this community to implode
    .
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    L
    dbibby1988 wrote: »
    To be honest, Ive found myself playing less BF1 over the last few weeks. .

    Yeah alot of that going around. It seems the trend statement here on the forums is: "my k/d has gone up, but I'm having less fun so I'm playing less". Ok.

    My KDR really has increased though.

    Before Patch:
    Patch_Day.png

    Currently:
    Current_Day.png

    Over my past few recent sessions my average KDR has been 4.58. I've been pretty consistently above a 3.0 since the update.

    Doing better doesn't necessarily mean you're having as much fun.

    Oh I know. My intention in making that statement wasn’t to imply that people should have more fun if their k/d goes up. I was simply just paraphrasing the general consensus around here.

    My point was we've seen so much content since September, yet people are complaining about such a small change (TTK 2.0). It simply isn’t that big of a change.

    Again:
    Scout wasn’t touched.
    Medic range was buffed and no one complained.
    Support was buffed and nerfed. A wash?
    Assault had shotguns and the MP18 buffed, no one complained.
    Assault had the Hellreigel and SMG 08 buffed.

    If you put the whole TTK 2.0 patch into perspective, don't you come to the same conclusion? That the hate isn’t warranted? People are constantly posting about a theory that low TTK is bad, rarely do they touch on what actually transpired in TTK 2.0. Again, let’s get to the meat and bones of TTK 2.0, 2 assault SMGs have caused this community to implode.

    The most vocal detractors seem to use their feelings as a guide.

    I feel like its less fun
    I feel like X class was ruined

    This is hitting the nail on the head. Exactly. People just can't seem to put things into perspective.

    Just so we are clear, I'm not ignoring this post. I am just too busy to unpack this at the moment. If the conversation is still relevant when things slow down, I will give a full answer.
  • FightinFinn187
    715 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    L
    dbibby1988 wrote: »
    To be honest, Ive found myself playing less BF1 over the last few weeks. .

    Yeah alot of that going around. It seems the trend statement here on the forums is: "my k/d has gone up, but I'm having less fun so I'm playing less". Ok.

    My KDR really has increased though.

    Before Patch:
    Patch_Day.png

    Currently:
    Current_Day.png

    Over my past few recent sessions my average KDR has been 4.58. I've been pretty consistently above a 3.0 since the update.

    Doing better doesn't necessarily mean you're having as much fun.

    Oh I know. My intention in making that statement wasn’t to imply that people should have more fun if their k/d goes up. I was simply just paraphrasing the general consensus around here.

    My point was we've seen so much content since September, yet people are complaining about such a small change (TTK 2.0). It simply isn’t that big of a change.

    Again:
    Scout wasn’t touched.
    Medic range was buffed and no one complained.
    Support was buffed and nerfed. A wash?
    Assault had shotguns and the MP18 buffed, no one complained.
    Assault had the Hellreigel and SMG 08 buffed.

    If you put the whole TTK 2.0 patch into perspective, don't you come to the same conclusion? That the hate isn’t warranted? People are constantly posting about a theory that low TTK is bad, rarely do they touch on what actually transpired in TTK 2.0. Again, let’s get to the meat and bones of TTK 2.0, 2 assault SMGs have caused this community to implode.

    TTK 2.0 was anything but small. It was a larger re-balance than what BF4 experienced. Just because it isn't a big deal to you doesn't make it trivial.

    Not to mention BF4s rebalance actually, ya know, balanced it.

    Currently there's only about 2-3 weapons per class that aren't completely garbage.

    Yep, I always liked the LSAT, but it became my favorite after the rebalance. There were a lot of lower ROF weapons that became viable afterwards.
  • theONEFORCE
    2643 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    Good players became even better, because they were good before the patch. Average players became much worse, because - see the first sentence :)

    If you die constantly it’s not fun. PTFOing is risky, because good players usually PTFO. Camping is much safer and thus people camp

    That really doesn't explain how TTK increased the skill gap.

    I don't see how this patch made things more skillfull. Pre-patch, in my opinion, had a more aggressive play which in turn required skill and knowledge since you had to get your shots right. Now it's grab an smg for a fast kill or camp in a corner.
    .
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    All I see now that the patch is a month behind us are people PTFOing with all classes and people camping and not PTFOing with all classes in similar distribution to how I experienced it pre-patch. Oddly, we must just end up in the matches where only things happen that prove our side of the argument. Weird.

    I'll disagree. The game has changed dramatically. The question that still is on my mind is with the list of all things that needed improvement....TTK was nowhere near the top. I don't understand the necessity in applying this to the game so late in it's life.

    Sorry, maybe we misunderstood each other (English is not my native language). I didn't mean that TTK patch made the game more skillful, I wanted to say that this TTK patch made game easier for Skilled players and harder for less skilled players.

    I liked previous TTK. This was one of the main reasons I've bought this game. Gunfights were intense, required good Aiming and leading targets. You always had a chance to find cover and fight back or at least try to.

    Maybe "Skill ceiling" was not the right term for this. But I hope you got my point.

    I don't agree with your assessment on how this affects skillful players. I play a lot and I feel I'm to a point where I am fairly skilled at the game. My stats have not changed much post patch but I definitely had to adjust to the new patch and I have to spend more time playing at my best level. I can't just phone it in and get an 8 kd in a round. Its hard to explain but I can't be as reckless as I was pre patch. For awhile pre patch the game actually got kind of boring because I could just run around without much care and if I started taking damage I was good enough at being evasive that I could take cover, come back and kill the person or go somewhere else. Now there is more risk and I can't just retreat to get to safety, I'm forced to react to the threat. I can re position but I can't easily retreat. Running away from certain situations was a bad habit I picked up in this game because the TTK was so high. My SPM is also going up a lot now because the patch is making me play differently, because I can't dip from hairy situations and I'm forced to engage.

    With the new TTK I have the opportunity to do better and in many cases I do, but I have to be so much more aware of what is going on around me because I don't have this giant room for error that I had previously.

    Yesterday I was reading something that one of the "game is not fun anymore" guys wrote and basically I think he was trying to say the same thing but he was looking at it from a different perspective. I enjoy that I'm being challenged now and he is upset that he has to try harder to get the same stats.

  • BaronVonGoon
    4455 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member

    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    I think I've explained plenty of times the reasons I don't like TTK2 beyond just the buff to some SMGs.

    Ok summarize it then. Or link to a post where you explained why you don't like ttk 2.0. Because other than generalizations and 'feels' you won't find posts that put things into perspective about ttk 2.0. it's all generalizations.

    I've already stated why I don't like the SLR range changes. They push scouts out of the longer ends of medium range unless you stick to your sweetspot. Particularly with the RSC and AL8. I also don't like that the reduced spread of SLRs now allows medics to spamfire their weapon at near max fire rate with no need to worry about spread at all but the longest ranges. Aiming on PC is easier than it is on console, so SLRs have become pretty dominant.

    @Sixclicks

    I have two issues with this:

    First, map design. Battlefield maps are different from one another. Some are close range, some long range. Some maps in Operations go from one range to another from sector to sector (Oil of Empires on Sinai and Suez, Monte Grappa, Kaiserschalct, Verdun, Ballroom Blitz, etc...). Conquest maps are designed in a way where one class has an advantage over another. Same with Operations sectors. The first two sectors on Oil of Empires on Sinai for example, give scout the advantage over medic and the other classes. The notion that the SLR range change pushes scout out of medium range doesn’t come into practice often because the gameplay dynamics aren’t static and the maps aren’t static. You hit 'Join' to a server running Fort De Vaux, you're joining a server where scout isn't the best choice for the map. You hit ‘Join’ to a server running Galicia you know which class is not the best choice on Galicia. My point is, we can use theory to discuss medic vs scout dynamics or support vs medic etc... but engagements are not all that often decided by these dynamics and are much more often decided by choice of map or Operations sector or even current score in conquest or Operations.

    Second, if we want to discuss medic vs scout or any class vs scout, we can't simply assume that scout is 100% balanced and in a good place vs the other classes. Neither I nor anyone is saying scout is overpowered. All I'm saying is the horse has been beaten, stepped on, trampled, drawn and quartered. But the echo of the complaints still resonates around here, people did not like how much scout was buffed from the 12m OHK/Headshot past 12m in BF4 to the ezmode OHK to the body and insane bullet velocity in BF1. I went from not using recon in BF4 because it required getting good at sniping to becoming quite a decent scout in BF1. OVEERNIGHT. Alot of us in the community asked why was scout buffed this much. My point is, you have an issue with medic vs scout interaction after TTK 2.0, I and many others have had issues with scout since release but we've murdered that horse. So if scout is indirectly nerfed in TTK 2.0 I have no sympathy for the class and say it’s been a long time coming.
    SMGs kill so quickly at close range that there's no time to react to them. You're dead before you can even turn around to face your attacker when getting shot in the side or back by one. Especially with the SMG 08/18. Which of course has caused players of the other classes to avoid CQB areas. I also don't think the Hellriegel should be on par with the Automatico without any of the negatives that the Automatico suffers from.

    Especially the SMG08? I don't understand how people on the forums want balance but don’t some guns/classes to have an advantage in their own ranges.

    You want scout to have superiority at its intended range and disapprove of encroachment onto its range, but disapprove of assaults superiority in its intended range.

    Assault is SUPPOSED to dominate in its range. Assault dominated CQB pre-ttk 2.0 and it’s the same now. Not much has changed. I don't care for the reaction time test, the Hellreigel killed at 300 ms in close range pre-ttk 2.0 now it does so at what 250 ms? Not much of a difference if a Hellreigel user gets the drop on you.

    As mentioned, class vs class dynamics don’t matter as much as map design/sector design. Assault has an advantage in Fort de Vaux, medic has an advantage in Brusilov Keep, Scout has an advantage in Galicia, Support has an advantage in Amiens...

    Assault's buff in CQB isn’t much of a buff, its slight range buff is the real ttk 2.0 buff to assault. But again, its slight. Not one post ttk 2.0 thread complaining about the RANGE of the Hellreigel or SMG 08, all the complaints are about how fast these kill in CQB. You're a good player, I'm pretty sure you can agree with me that you can go in Fort with an lMG 08 and drop 50-70 kills no problem, right? I do it and I'm sure you can too because game play doesn’t often put you in 1v1s. Even if you end up in a 1v1, you can often use game sense to listen and anticipate and therefore react faster than the Hellreigel/SMG08 user. Hell, you can still rambo vs assaults with an lMG 08 if you're twitchy.


    I don't like the slower ADS with support weapons, although I could accept it if they didn't have the stupid negative spread mechanic on top of the slower ADS. There are seemingly more bipod camping supports, and I think that's a result of a combination of the slower ADS time, increased effectiveness of SMGs, and the ranged BTK reduction which makes camping a mile away with an LMG a lot more viable now. I don't really have too much of an issue with supports camping though - they just make easy head shot fodder. Although it can be annoying when there's a lot of them on the map doing it. CQB viability with support has been slightly diminished, but not enough to be too significant imo if you're using the right LMG. I don't bother with the LMGs like the M1917 anymore, which used to be one of my favorites, because hillhumping isn't something I enjoy.

    I won’t disagree with your views on support. I think the ADS times should be revisited.
    As for scout, why even bother playing it aggressively anymore? I mean, unless you enjoy running around with the Bodeo out all the time. I'd rather use my rifle though, but that's just not a viable tactic anymore. Neither is the pop and swap combo. So instead I camp back a little, pop a few headshots, and get called a hacker. Or I use the RSC.

    No one complains that assault isn’t successful at long range, no one complains that medic/support don’t have distinct ranges where they dominate like Assault and scout. Why do people complain about scout not being effective in CQB? Its rhetorical, hear me out. CQB is by far the most common range for engagements. So I get it, every class has to have some success in it otherwise the game would be broken.

    This is how I view the strength in CQB:

    1) Assault -- CQB is assault's intended range, so no surprise they’re strongest here.

    2) Medic and support are serviceable in it because as mentioned they don’t have their own distinct ranges like assault and scout.

    3) Scout -- Weak in CQB because unlike medic/support scout dominates its own distinct intended range.

    Now if we flip this and discuss long range. It would be like this:

    1)Scout

    2)Medic/Support

    3)Assault

    Is this not logic? Why do you guys here on the forum complain about scout's weakness in CQB?

    Atleast, with an M1903 Experimental, Bodeo, or Frommer Stop the scout can be quite decent in CQB when they venture into CQB zones. Whereas assault is kind of screwed if they get caught out in the open, don’t you think? Unless you consider the prone rocket gun stunt to be more effective in long range than the M1903/Bodeo/Frommer in CQB?

    Complaining that scout is weak in CQB is illogical and simply has no basis.
    The culmination of all this is the effect it's had on how the playerbase has adapted to the changes. Which, for the most part, is camping back and playing a lot more cautiously rather than pushing the objective - unless you're playing assault, in which case, run in and bullet hose everyone in a second!

    lol come on this is just ridiculous. Flag zones are often CQB zones. Are you saying Assault should not have an advantage in its intended range? I empathize the word 'Advantage'. Because that’s all it is, an advantage. It’s not a kill bot. You can do quite well in CQB, you don't have to be an assault.
    Admittedly, my reduction in enjoyment isn't solely because of TTK2. It's also because of the absolutely horrid balancing in this game lately. I don't have any way to quantify that more games are unbalanced now compared to before TTK2, but it certainly feels that way lately.

    People are having less fun playing because (NOT in any order):

    1) They're bored. Game's been out for 17 months.

    2) Microstutter bug

    3) Broken matchmaker balance since Apocalypse

    4) Polarizing maps (Zeebruge, Heligoland, Cape Helles, Somme, and Passchendaele).

    5) Disappointing guns (RSC SMG, Howell stuck in TTK 1.0)

    6) TTK 2.0



    It’s odd that people always cite TTK 2.0 as the reason for their lack of enjoyment.

  • theONEFORCE
    2643 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    Good players became even better, because they were good before the patch. Average players became much worse, because - see the first sentence :)

    If you die constantly it’s not fun. PTFOing is risky, because good players usually PTFO. Camping is much safer and thus people camp

    That really doesn't explain how TTK increased the skill gap.

    I don't see how this patch made things more skillfull. Pre-patch, in my opinion, had a more aggressive play which in turn required skill and knowledge since you had to get your shots right. Now it's grab an smg for a fast kill or camp in a corner.
    .
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    I think the biggest problem with this game atm is not the TTK change but the game balancing (or the lack of).

    That's exactly why I don't like this change. Instead of focusing on real problems that are still in the game, they shifted their focus on completely unnecessary changes.

    Yes, some weapons were very bad, but noone was forcing to use them: medals are optional, no unlocks bound to these weapons and etc. If you don't want to put yourself into disadvantage, you take solid and easy-to-use all-rounder weapon and you're good to go.

    DICE did a really good job of providing weapons for all maps/modes/playstyles and skill.

    Now, let's check did this TTK patch solve some problems that were in the game on PS4 platform:
    1. Team Balance: Fail - It's even worse now, either you're stomping or being stomped. Maybe 1 out of 10 games we had a good intense fights
    2. Make unpopular weapons better? Fail - with buffing all other guns these weapons + some other weapons became obsolete
    3. Support buff? Partial fail - bipodded Supports are now very dangerous. Running and gunning supports were nerfed
    4. Increase skill ceiling: Success - good players became better, average players became much worse => empty servers after several rounds + see the Team Balance. If you like steamrolling other team and jerking off on your stats, then you will definitely like this patch
    5. PTFO: Fail - Due to TTK, game became more campy and people don't like to push.
    6. Too many scouts? Fail - now we have Scouts + camping Support players :)
    7. Flanking and taking down multiple enemies: Complete fail - due to movement changes, slide nerf and AA buff, it's very hard to take down even 2 enemies running at you.
    8. Team Play: Success - due to TTK people really started running as a Squad, because this at least helps you to survive a little longer

    If i forgot something, please let me know, because I still don't understand what was the point of this patch

    Thanks

    Please elaborate on skill because all I see now are people camping and not PTFOing.

    All I see now that the patch is a month behind us are people PTFOing with all classes and people camping and not PTFOing with all classes in similar distribution to how I experienced it pre-patch. Oddly, we must just end up in the matches where only things happen that prove our side of the argument. Weird.

    I'll disagree. The game has changed dramatically. The question that still is on my mind is with the list of all things that needed improvement....TTK was nowhere near the top. I don't understand the necessity in applying this to the game so late in it's life.

    Sorry, maybe we misunderstood each other (English is not my native language). I didn't mean that TTK patch made the game more skillful, I wanted to say that this TTK patch made game easier for Skilled players and harder for less skilled players.

    I liked previous TTK. This was one of the main reasons I've bought this game. Gunfights were intense, required good Aiming and leading targets. You always had a chance to find cover and fight back or at least try to.

    Maybe "Skill ceiling" was not the right term for this. But I hope you got my point.

    I don't agree with your assessment on how this affects skillful players. I play a lot and I feel I'm to a point where I am fairly skilled at the game. My stats have not changed much post patch but I definitely had to adjust to the new patch and I have to spend more time playing at my best level. I can't just phone it in and get an 8 kd in a round. Its hard to explain but I can't be as reckless as I was pre patch. For awhile pre patch the game actually got kind of boring because I could just run around without much care and if I started taking damage I was good enough at being evasive that I could take cover, come back and kill the person or go somewhere else. Now there is more risk and I can't just retreat to get to safety, I'm forced to react to the threat. I can re position but I can't easily retreat. Running away from certain situations was a bad habit I picked up in this game because the TTK was so high. My SPM is also going up a lot now because the patch is making me play differently, because I can't dip from hairy situations and I'm forced to engage.

    With the new TTK I have the opportunity to do better and in many cases I do, but I have to be so much more aware of what is going on around me because I don't have this giant room for error that I had previously.

    Yesterday I was reading something that one of the "game is not fun anymore" guys wrote and basically I think he was trying to say the same thing but he was looking at it from a different perspective. I enjoy that I'm being challenged now and he is upset that he has to try harder to get the same stats.
  • TEKNOCODE
    8376 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    I think I've explained plenty of times the reasons I don't like TTK2 beyond just the buff to some SMGs.

    Ok summarize it then. Or link to a post where you explained why you don't like ttk 2.0. Because other than generalizations and 'feels' you won't find posts that put things into perspective about ttk 2.0. it's all generalizations.

    I've already stated why I don't like the SLR range changes. They push scouts out of the longer ends of medium range unless you stick to your sweetspot. Particularly with the RSC and AL8. I also don't like that the reduced spread of SLRs now allows medics to spamfire their weapon at near max fire rate with no need to worry about spread at all but the longest ranges. Aiming on PC is easier than it is on console, so SLRs have become pretty dominant.

    I have two issues with this:

    First, map design. Battlefield maps are different from one another. Some are close range, some long range. Some maps in Operations go from one range to another from sector to sector (Oil of Empires on Sinai and Suez, Monte Grappa, Kaiserschalct, Verdun, Ballroom Blitz, etc...). Conquest maps are designed in a way where one class has an advantage over another. Same with Operations sectors. The first two sectors on Oil of Empires on Sinai for example, give scout the advantage over medic and the other classes. The notion that the SLR range change pushes scout out of medium range doesn’t come into practice often because the gameplay dynamics aren’t static and the maps aren’t static. You hit 'Join' to a server running Fort De Vaux, you're joining a server where scout isn't the best choice for the map. You hit ‘Join’ to a server running Galicia you know which class is not the best choice on Galicia. My point is, we can use theory to discuss medic vs scout dynamics or support vs medic etc... but engagements are not all that often decided by these dynamics and are much more often decided by choice of map or Operations sector or even current score in conquest or Operations.

    Second, if we want to discuss medic vs scout or any class vs scout, we can't simply assume that scout is 100% balanced and in a good place vs the other classes. Neither I nor anyone is saying scout is overpowered. All I'm saying is the horse has been beaten, stepped on, trampled, drawn and quartered. But the echo of the complaints still resonates around here, people did not like how much scout was buffed from the 12m OHK/Headshot past 12m in BF4 to the ezmode OHK to the body and insane bullet velocity in BF1. I went from not using recon in BF4 because it required getting good at sniping to becoming quite a decent scout in BF1. OVEERNIGHT. Alot of us in the community asked why was scout buffed this much. My point is, you have an issue with medic vs scout interaction after TTK 2.0, I and many others have had issues with scout since release but we've murdered that horse. So if scout is indirectly nerfed in TTK 2.0 I have no sympathy for the class and say it’s been a long time coming.
    SMGs kill so quickly at close range that there's no time to react to them. You're dead before you can even turn around to face your attacker when getting shot in the side or back by one. Especially with the SMG 08/18. Which of course has caused players of the other classes to avoid CQB areas. I also don't think the Hellriegel should be on par with the Automatico without any of the negatives that the Automatico suffers from.

    Especially the SMG08? I don't understand how people on the forums want balance but don’t some guns/classes to have an advantage in their own ranges.

    You want scout to have superiority at its intended range and disapprove of encroachment onto its range, but disapprove of assaults superiority in its intended range.

    Assault is SUPPOSED to dominate in its range. Assault dominated CQB pre-ttk 2.0 and it’s the same now. Not much has changed. I don't care for the reaction time test, the Hellreigel killed at 300 ms in close range pre-ttk 2.0 now it does so at what 250 ms? Not much of a difference if a Hellreigel user gets the drop on you.

    As mentioned, class vs class dynamics don’t matter as much as map design/sector design. Assault has an advantage in Fort de Vaux, medic has an advantage in Brusilov Keep, Scout has an advantage in Galicia, Support has an advantage in Amiens...

    Assault's buff in CQB isn’t much of a buff, its slight range buff is the real ttk 2.0 buff to assault. But again, its slight. Not one post ttk 2.0 thread complaining about the RANGE of the Hellreigel or SMG 08, all the complaints are about how fast these kill in CQB. You're a good player, I'm pretty sure you can agree with me that you can go in Fort with an lMG 08 and drop 50-70 kills no problem, right? I do it and I'm sure you can too because game play doesn’t often put you in 1v1s. Even if you end up in a 1v1, you can often use game sense to listen and anticipate and therefore react faster than the Hellreigel/SMG08 user. Hell, you can still rambo vs assaults with an lMG 08 if you're twitchy.


    I don't like the slower ADS with support weapons, although I could accept it if they didn't have the stupid negative spread mechanic on top of the slower ADS. There are seemingly more bipod camping supports, and I think that's a result of a combination of the slower ADS time, increased effectiveness of SMGs, and the ranged BTK reduction which makes camping a mile away with an LMG a lot more viable now. I don't really have too much of an issue with supports camping though - they just make easy head shot fodder. Although it can be annoying when there's a lot of them on the map doing it. CQB viability with support has been slightly diminished, but not enough to be too significant imo if you're using the right LMG. I don't bother with the LMGs like the M1917 anymore, which used to be one of my favorites, because hillhumping isn't something I enjoy.

    I won’t disagree with your views on support. I think the ADS times should be revisited.
    As for scout, why even bother playing it aggressively anymore? I mean, unless you enjoy running around with the Bodeo out all the time. I'd rather use my rifle though, but that's just not a viable tactic anymore. Neither is the pop and swap combo. So instead I camp back a little, pop a few headshots, and get called a hacker. Or I use the RSC.

    No one complains that assault isn’t successful at long range, no one complains that medic/support don’t have distinct ranges where they dominate like Assault and scout. Why do people complain about scout not being effective in CQB? Its rhetorical, hear me out. CQB is by far the most common range for engagements. So I get it, every class has to have some success in it otherwise the game would be broken.

    This is how I view the strength in CQB:

    1) Assault -- CQB is assault's intended range, so no surprise they’re strongest here.

    2) Medic and support are serviceable in it because as mentioned they don’t have their own distinct ranges like assault and scout.

    3) Scout -- Weak in CQB because unlike medic/support scout dominates its own distinct intended range.

    Now if we flip this and discuss long range. It would be like this:

    1)Scout

    2)Medic/Support

    3)Assault

    Is this not logic? Why do you guys here on the forum complain about scout's weakness in CQB?

    Atleast, with an M1903 Experimental, Bodeo, or Frommer Stop the scout can be quite decent in CQB when they venture into CQB zones. Whereas assault is kind of screwed if they get caught out in the open, don’t you think? Unless you consider the prone rocket gun stunt to be more effective in long range than the M1903/Bodeo/Frommer in CQB?

    Complaining that scout is weak in CQB is illogical and simply has no basis.
    The culmination of all this is the effect it's had on how the playerbase has adapted to the changes. Which, for the most part, is camping back and playing a lot more cautiously rather than pushing the objective - unless you're playing assault, in which case, run in and bullet hose everyone in a second!

    lol come on this is just ridiculous. Flag zones are often CQB zones. Are you saying Assault should not have an advantage in its intended range? I empathize the word 'Advantage'. Because that’s all it is, an advantage. It’s not a kill bot. You can do quite well in CQB, you don't have to be an assault.
    Admittedly, my reduction in enjoyment isn't solely because of TTK2. It's also because of the absolutely horrid balancing in this game lately. I don't have any way to quantify that more games are unbalanced now compared to before TTK2, but it certainly feels that way lately.

    People are having less fun playing because (NOT in any order):

    1) They're bored. Game's been out for 17 months.

    2) Microstutter bug

    3) Broken matchmaker balance since Apocalypse

    4) Polarizing maps (Zeebruge, Heligoland, Cape Helles, Somme, and Passchendaele).

    5) Disappointing guns (RSC SMG, Howell stuck in TTK 1.0)

    6) TTK 2.0



    It’s odd that people always cite TTK 2.0 as the reason for their lack of enjoyment.
    1. Never became bored with bf1
    2. Didn’t experience the microstutter bug because I already stopped playing
    3. Matchmaker has always had its issues, but it wasn’t game breaking imo
    4. Loved almost all of the maps. I still played the maps that I’d didn’t like because I’m not petty.
    5. Never got into the “waah, muh weaponz” argument
    6. Brings us to point six. Ttk revision...fifteen months after release.


  • The_BERG_366
    1607 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Also, it is supposed to be a team based game. That's kind of how BF has always been touted. With that in mind, why should you be able to reasonably engage large groups of players by yourself anyway? Move with your squad to engage such a large threat. Walking into a room and getting gunned down because the enemy overwhelms you, regardless of skill, doesn't seem to be an issue to me... it seems more like you made the stupid choice to walk into a room full of enemies without support.

    This is how previous Battlefields used to be(pre Bad Company).If you went lone wolf you were punished as the game was supposed to be about teamwork. Now DICE LA decided to give assaults OP weapons that are stupid easy to use with huge magazine capacities so they can all go play Rambo without any real thought when it comes to engagements.

    Yeah in bf gunskill shouldn't matter and there should be no skillgap. it should be just about chance how many players there are. lol

    seriously though, in this game is masses of enemies are already ways harder to deal with than in previous titles and u guys still complain? are u serious?

    Some have come right out and said it in this very thread that gunplay should be made to cater to the casual playerbase to make it easier to take on the skilled players.

    lol ok. wasn't aware of that.... thx for enlightening me. i can now go and descend into despair :weary:
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