BF1 vs BF4 Scout/Recon Bullet Drop - Comparison

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Sixclicks
3289 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
edited May 16
So I got tired of people saying there's no drop in this game... I made two tables which you can use to compare the bullet drops of the two games for scout and recon rifles. Each table displays the drop at 100 meters and at 300 meters. As a disclaimer, I must say, I did not factor drag into the BF1 data (I don't know how to easily do so, and I really don't feel like doing differential equations). So the BF1 numbers would technically be a little higher than what's in the table. That said, the 100 meter data should be close enough to correct since drag hasn't influenced the round much at that distance.

Here are the tables:


BF1
BF1_Drop.png
https://s9.postimg.cc/k98rtpprz/BF1_Drop.png


BF4
BF4_Drop.png
https://s9.postimg.cc/qzp937adr/BF4_Drop.png


So as expected, most guns in BF4 do have more drop than most guns in BF1. However, BF4 does have the rifle with the least drop, the FY-JS. In terms of drop, it is nearly identical to the G98. The difference in this case being the FY-JS takes 45ms longer to reach your target at 100 meters or 135ms longer to reach your target at 300 meters due to its slower velocity.

On the flip side, BF1 has the rifle(s) with the most drop. These rifles are the Vetterli-Vitali and the Martini-Henry. No BF4 rifle comes anywhere near the amount of drop that these two rifles experience. However, if we exclude those two as outliers, then BF4 has the rifle with the most drop. That would be the CS5 or the Scout Elite.

The average rifle in BF1 has a drop of 5.4" at 100 meters or 48.7" at 300 meters. The median drops for 100 meters and 300 meters are 4.4" and 39.2" respectively.

For BF4, the average rifle has a drop of 5.4" at 100 meters or 48.4" at 300 meters. The median drops for 100 meters and 300 meters are 5.4" and 48.8" respectively.

As a final note, keep in mind that BF1 has a default scope zeroing of 75 meters. Meaning you won't actually see 3.081" of drop at 100 meters with the G98 for example. The perceived drop is less than the actual drop because of this.

Relevant Formulas:
x = x_0 + v_0x * t

y = y_0 + v_0y * t - (1/2) * g * t^2

t = (x - x_0) / v_0x

y = - (1/2) * g * (x / v_0x)^2

Comments

  • Imabaka70
    1995 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    The amount that I have to aim up to hit a 150-300m target in the face even with the m1903 says other wise.
    Also the martini and vetterilli say hello anything past 130m and you have to really start aiming up.

    it seems the ones that say scout is so easy and there is no bullet drop Main assault and have next to no time as scout.
  • MurfCr
    866 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Bullets drop in BF1...this is not COD. we have actual recoil and drop. Wellllll I should say we have playing fields large enough to simulate bullet travel long enough to have a drop mechanic.
  • ScoutHunterKing
    293 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Good post! I hope this year's game keeps the realistic bullet velocities for the Scout class... I'm less concerned about the sweet spot.
  • olavafar
    1421 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Nice post, confirmed what I have felt all the time.
  • Sixclicks
    3289 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited May 16
    crabman169 wrote: »
    It's simple really

    Bf4 bolt action rifle physics akin to airsoft/video game logic

    Bf1 bolt action rifle physics akin to real life with realistic muzzle velocities hence the perceive "casual no drop"

    If your "sniper round" already started to drop at 100m it's not a very good round.

    Yeah, I'm definitely glad they made the rifles have realistic muzzle velocities in this game. It's pretty ridiculous that in BF4 you could so easily sidestep bullets coming at you from a distance, depending on the rifle. Granted, recon engagement ranges were generally a lot longer in BF4.

    Do you honestly believe these calculations will prevent crybabies from their daily routine?

    No, but I still found it to be interesting to compare the two. I was surprised to find BF4 actually has one rifle that experiences less drop than any BF1 rifle. People see the higher muzzle velocities in this game and automatically assume that nearly every rifle has been significantly buffed in comparison to BF4 in terms of drop without realizing that there's another very important factor besides the velocity - the actual drop rate applied to each rifle itself. In BF4 we had rifles that completely defied gravity with drop rates as low as 6 m/s^2 up to 15 m/s^2. BF1 bullets technically defy gravity as well at 12 m/s^2, but all rifles are set to that drop rate. So each rifle's drop is directly related to its velocity while that wasn't the case in BF4.

    For anyone who is unaware, Earth's gravitational acceleration is 9.81 m/s^2.

    Imabaka70 wrote: »
    it seems the ones that say scout is so easy and there is no bullet drop Main assault and have next to no time as scout.

    I generally find that to be the case. Well, not always as assault mains, but in the majority of cases where I see someone saying scout is OP they either don't play the class a lot or they perform worse in SPM and KPM with the scout class in comparison to their other classes.
  • herodes87
    741 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Is the First statistic muzzle Velocity with feet per second?
  • xxDicemanxx
    414 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited May 16
    herodes87 wrote: »
    Is the First statistic muzzle Velocity with feet per second?

    It's meters per second. but if you need a conversion 1 meter is equal to about 3.2 feet.
  • Alphazetamu
    635 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    I must say, I did not factor drag into the BF1 data (I don't know how to easily do so, and I really don't feel like doing differential equations). So the BF1 numbers would technically be a little higher than what's in the table. That said, the 100 meter data should be close enough to correct since drag hasn't influenced the round much at that distance.

    I could help you a bit with the drag calculations if you want. According to symthic the bullet loses speed at a rate drag* velocity^2, where drag is a gun dependent number (1903 has the lowest value apparently).
    A simple way of solving the equations would be to use Euler's method - think of it as subdividing the time interval on which you are looking for the velocity, and then updating the velocity by the amount lost for that small amount of time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_method

    I think if you include these into your calculations, they'll change your time to target (by increasing them). I don't know how familiar you are with numerical methods, so if you want some help I can find some spare time to do that for you.

    By the way, just noticed Jackfrags uploaded a video showing a player can actually dodge most sniper rifles beyond 250-300m, as dodging a shot that is already in the air by in inputting a movement after the bullet is fired. Interesting experiment.

    Also, for anyone interested in the differences in bullet velocities for modern weapons - in particularly a .50 cal from a barrett sniper will travel at almost 1000m/s, and is around 50% faster than an ak 47 round, and almost 4x faster than a pistol round. I'm linking the video below also because you see the crazy amount of flexing of the metal in the ak barrel when it fires - I guess random spread is a realistic thing with that amount of deformation going on.

  • herodes87
    741 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    So they really took the original Stats from the guns. I thought that was Just PR bla bla bla.

    I would Like to See a comparison of the SLR, MGs, ARs and SMGs from BF1 and BF4.
  • RRedux
    473 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    It's not the bullet drop, it's the sweet spot mechanic that needs to go away.

    The only reason I can think of for it being added is to cater to console players.
  • Silver032
    81 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    i assume this is a response to my post yesterday :D

    Im honored
  • SirTerrible
    478 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Bullet drop was over the top in BF4. It's a video game and not real life so I don't expect it to be realistic but from a balance standpoint it made sniping less reliable than it should be.
    -
    Of course in typical video game dev fashion they double buffed snipers with the unnecessary sweet spot mechanic in BF1 so yeah, the sniper skill floor is too low imo.
  • Alphazetamu
    635 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    RRedux wrote: »
    It's not the bullet drop, it's the sweet spot mechanic that needs to go away.

    The only reason I can think of for it being added is to cater to console players.

    I think it was more to do with the fact that there wasn't much to differentiate the bolt action rifles between themselves. I think plenty of console players, myself included, don't care for or against it much, and this is shown by how competitive the g95 has been. But let's stay on topic here about bullet drop.
  • UraniumReaper
    362 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    RRedux wrote: »
    It's not the bullet drop, it's the sweet spot mechanic that needs to go away.

    The only reason I can think of for it being added is to cater to console players.

    I think it was more to do with the fact that there wasn't much to differentiate the bolt action rifles between themselves. I think plenty of console players, myself included, don't care for or against it much, and this is shown by how competitive the g95 has been. But let's stay on topic here about bullet drop.

    Yeah, I mostly use infantry rifles not in sweetspot ranges. Why is it always the fault of the "console" for PC players? That doesn't even make sense in this case.
  • trip1ex
    3059 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited May 16
    already had the sense that BF4 sniper bullets were slow and looping compared to BF1's lasers in general

    plus in bf4 snipers weren't sniping at 100m or closer I don't think. They sniped at longer distances for the most part. I think that also explains the different feel in the sniper experience between the 2 games.

    and then of course the sweetspot crap.
  • Sixclicks
    3289 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Silver032 wrote: »
    i assume this is a response to my post yesterday :D

    Im honored

    Not really. Tons of people act like there's no drop in this game. Your post just inspired me to think about it after doing the calculations for the two guns I compared in my reply to you. I was surprised no one had done these relatively simple calculations yet. I think it would be cool if symthic added trajectory charts to their website.
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    I must say, I did not factor drag into the BF1 data (I don't know how to easily do so, and I really don't feel like doing differential equations). So the BF1 numbers would technically be a little higher than what's in the table. That said, the 100 meter data should be close enough to correct since drag hasn't influenced the round much at that distance.

    I could help you a bit with the drag calculations if you want. According to symthic the bullet loses speed at a rate drag* velocity^2, where drag is a gun dependent number (1903 has the lowest value apparently).
    A simple way of solving the equations would be to use Euler's method - think of it as subdividing the time interval on which you are looking for the velocity, and then updating the velocity by the amount lost for that small amount of time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_method

    I think if you include these into your calculations, they'll change your time to target (by increasing them). I don't know how familiar you are with numerical methods, so if you want some help I can find some spare time to do that for you.

    By the way, just noticed Jackfrags uploaded a video showing a player can actually dodge most sniper rifles beyond 250-300m, as dodging a shot that is already in the air by in inputting a movement after the bullet is fired. Interesting experiment.

    Also, for anyone interested in the differences in bullet velocities for modern weapons - in particularly a .50 cal from a barrett sniper will travel at almost 1000m/s, and is around 50% faster than an ak 47 round, and almost 4x faster than a pistol round. I'm linking the video below also because you see the crazy amount of flexing of the metal in the ak barrel when it fires - I guess random spread is a realistic thing with that amount of deformation going on.


    I'll look at including it in the future. Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I just got laid off at work today, so I'm not really in the mood for delving into it right now.
  • crabman169
    11515 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    RRedux wrote: »
    It's not the bullet drop, it's the sweet spot mechanic that needs to go away.

    The only reason I can think of for it being added is to cater to console players.

    "I don't think x feature therefore it's to cater for the console players"

    Ironic as it's the PC crowd that "abuse" the sweetspot. Most on console couldn't give a rats rear about it.

    It was actually added to both make each rifle a bit more unique from each other and encourage snipers to provide overwatch closer to the objective instead of ends of the map trying for the longest headshot.

    Remember how the alpha was real prevalent on PC? And how the PC crowd thought the sweet spot was a niffy new thing being the ones to use it more often/the class?

    Id say about 1 in 10 of my scout rifle kills would be a sweet spot kill and that's only because of the about of martini Henry kills I've gotten else it'd props be 1 in 20 (which id say is how many times an enemy scout as got me in his sweet spot as opposed to a headshot or finishing me off on low health)

    99% of my personal scout rifle kills that are sweet spot are entirely accidental. I always line up for the second shot even if it's a headshot.

    You PC mustard rice guys really need to get a life; for people that are so "superior" to "console plebs" like you say you guys are awfully transfixed by us.



    ~

    Regardless what does the sweetspot have to do with comparing bf4 Vs bf1 rifle ballistics? You know bf4 has a sweetspot too? 0-12.5m ohk to the chest for EVERY RIFLE. Pretty much the only unique rifles were the FY-JS and Scout Elite purely because they required two headshots to kill past a certain distance (70m?).

    Funny all this crying about the sweet spots and not a single thing happens to them the entire life of battlefield 1; kinda says something right?
  • Sixclicks
    3289 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited May 17
    DICE wanted to encourage scouts to be closer to objectives compared to previous BF games, and they partially accomplished that via the addition of the sweetspot mechanic. The sweetspot, regardless of whether you utilize it or not, along with higher base damage have become essential balancing factors for the scout class who otherwise would be very lackluster in comparison to medics.

    It also made the class a lot more accessible to the average player.
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