Weekly Debrief

Goodbye sweet spot :D

Comments

  • Khaotik707
    584 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 2018
    Sweet spot was generally a failure anyway, half the guns had a sweet spot at ranges where you should have no trouble lining up head shots if you're a remotely skilled player. And sitting there with a long ranged scope aiming for the body instead of the head and still getting a OHK was just garbage.

    I think it was good on those infantry variants though and without it, guns like the Martini Henry would've been completely pointless, so I guess I'll miss it on those but I won't be missing it on anything scoped and it's definitely a step in the right direction there.
  • disposalist
    8615 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Sweet spots doesn't mean scout rifles won't have a rise, plateau and fall damage graph.

    I imagine it has to mean there won't be any 100 damage body shots, but if that is reduced to 99, sweet spots *as we know them* will be gone.

    I didn't like the sweet spot mechanic, but I always said all they had to do was remove the one-hit-kill non-headshots and the model was fine.
  • von_Campenstein
    6568 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Yup.

    It's confirmed by Mr EA himself.

    No, not Andrew Wilson, he's returned by hydro-jet to his converted volcano island lair.

    Westie.

    Sounds like some of you new guys are going to have to learn how to actually shoot :P

    Never relied on the sweetspot for my kills, people running around on low health all the time it's not even needed anymore.
  • disposalist
    8615 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited June 2018
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Scout rifles will be useless and medics will rule mid-long range.
    I'm not certain that sweet spot removal alone will have that effect, but...

    Accuracy
    The other thing that scout rifles had in BF1 was perfect accuracy. No RBD. This was an awesome advantage at medium to long range.

    It's unrealistic, of course. You can put a modern rifle in a bench vice and it will have significant random deviation, let alone WW1 (or WW2) rifles, but there it was in BF1 and it was amazing to be able to pull the trigger twice and hit *exactly* the same (and correct) target twice.

    So if you factor in that in BF5 *all* weapons have perfect accuracy then, yeah, scout is going to be pushed out like it was in BF4 to only being king of extreme range because it is the only one with super zoom scopes.

    Bringing back some sensible RBD for other classes would help bring them back in again...
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited June 2018
    Based on the footage, it looks like the Kar98k damage model is around 80 (upper torso being the reference point) at close range, then drops off quite quickly to 60 at any moderate range. The bullet velocity seems low to my eyes, but it could be the drag has been pumped up. Rate of fire looks the same as BF1, maybe mid 50s in terms of rpm. Scope glint is still here. Sweetspot is gone. People are gonna struggle with this class, especially on console. (edit: oh, I forgot to mention that there's no stripper clip reload.)

  • von_Campenstein
    6568 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Based on the footage, it looks like the Kar98k damage model is around 80 (upper torso being the reference point) at close range, then drops off quite quickly to 60 at any moderate range. The bullet velocity seems low to my eyes, but it could be the drag has been pumped up. Rate of fire looks the same as BF1, maybe mid 50s in terms of rpm. Scope glint is still here. Sweetspot is gone. People are gonna struggle with this class, especially on console.

    That was base game without unlocks though, if they have any sense there will be plenty of room to improve. I guess they're gimped at the start to avoid all the noobs to spawn in Scouts and do nothing for the first two months.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited June 2018
    Good point, I would indeed like to see some progression where you can use some upgrade slots or something to improve some of the stats of the weapon, or remove some egregious downside like scope glint. It could be the equivalent of the silent foostep perks etc.
  • -aarp-19Crib
    716 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Imabaka70 wrote: »
    The watching stodehs sniping gameplay the damage seemed decent for a center hit. Also looks like velocity is still roughly the same.

    I can accept the loss of sweetspot, as long as it’s not airsoft style sniper rifles like bf4

    This.

    I'm fine with the sweetspot leaving (always thought it was kinda cheesy) but the sniper rifles needed the same velocity as BF1. BF4's sniper rifles were terrible.

    And that is why BF4 was such a great game. The snipers couldn't dominate the game.
  • Dogwoggle11
    2669 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Imabaka70 wrote: »
    The watching stodehs sniping gameplay the damage seemed decent for a center hit. Also looks like velocity is still roughly the same.

    I can accept the loss of sweetspot, as long as it’s not airsoft style sniper rifles like bf4

    This.

    I'm fine with the sweetspot leaving (always thought it was kinda cheesy) but the sniper rifles needed the same velocity as BF1. BF4's sniper rifles were terrible.

    And that is why BF4 was such a great game. The snipers couldn't dominate the game.

    :D :D :D :D
  • -aarp-19Crib
    716 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    Watching Stodeh's video, it's a large head shot hit box. My estimate is 3/4 of a meter circle. It should be head sized to require marksmanship. Sniping is a stationary business, not run and gun with aim assist. I'm not liking what I'm seeing.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Watching Stodeh's video, it's a large head shot hit box. My estimate is 3/4 of a meter circle. It should be head sized to require marksmanship. Sniping is a stationary business, not run and gun with aim assist. I'm not liking what I'm seeing.

    He's just insanely good. They could halve the hitbox size and he'll still nail it.

    Slightly off topic, it looks like the scope goes blurry when moving slightly, and only becomes focused when staying still - that is new compared to BF1, right?
  • disposalist
    8615 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited June 2018
    Watching Stodeh's video, it's a large head shot hit box. My estimate is 3/4 of a meter circle. It should be head sized to require marksmanship. Sniping is a stationary business, not run and gun with aim assist. I'm not liking what I'm seeing.
    He's just insanely good. They could halve the hitbox size and he'll still nail it.

    Slightly off topic, it looks like the scope goes blurry when moving slightly, and only becomes focused when staying still - that is new compared to BF1, right?
    Yeah. I just watched a vid saying exactly that - the blur indicates when your aim is affected. Whilst I'm not sure the blur is the best way, an indicator of when your soldier is ready to aim steady is excellent. Just guessing, like you wouldn't know when you're steady, was always silly.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    By the way, the kar98k can do as low as 44 damage at longer ranges (see vid below at 8:41). So basically no more 2 body shots at range.

    I've been trying to figure out what damage model they are using with all the multipliers, and right now the theory that best fits the evidence is that arms are 0.96x multiplier, but legs are 0.75 - a hybrid between the bf1 model for bolt actions and the general model for all other weapons.

  • Dogwoggle11
    2669 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Well, that's really low for a rifle.
  • x_Undaunted_x
    3760 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Imabaka70 wrote: »
    The watching stodehs sniping gameplay the damage seemed decent for a center hit. Also looks like velocity is still roughly the same.

    I can accept the loss of sweetspot, as long as it’s not airsoft style sniper rifles like bf4

    This.

    I'm fine with the sweetspot leaving (always thought it was kinda cheesy) but the sniper rifles needed the same velocity as BF1. BF4's sniper rifles were terrible.

    And that is why BF4 was such a great game. The snipers couldn't dominate the game.

    They don't dominate BF1. If they did, they wouldn't be the least used class.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Well, that's really low for a rifle.

    Yeah definitely. Especially since LMGs seem to do at least 30 damage at any range, and will shoot more than 10x faster.

    Honestly, the kar98k was by far the worst gun shown in gameplay - worst ttk, reload, damage drop off, scope glint, rate of fire... it just doesn't have anything going for it.
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Scout rifles will be useless and medics will rule mid-long range.
    I'm not certain that sweet spot removal alone will have that effect, but...

    Accuracy
    The other thing that scout rifles had in BF1 was perfect accuracy. No RBD. This was an awesome advantage at medium to long range.

    It's unrealistic, of course. You can put a modern rifle in a bench vice and it will have significant random deviation, let alone WW1 (or WW2) rifles, but there it was in BF1 and it was amazing to be able to pull the trigger twice and hit *exactly* the same (and correct) target twice.

    So if you factor in that in BF5 *all* weapons have perfect accuracy then, yeah, scout is going to be pushed out like it was in BF4 to only being king of extreme range because it is the only one with super zoom scopes.

    Bringing back some sensible RBD for other classes would help bring them back in again...

    That's exactly it though. Medics have every advantage except for headshots and magnification. They have a faster body shot TTK at any range. They have pinpoint accuracy with no RBD. Medics can keep themselves at 100% life more than any other class. Medics can keep their teammates alive. The weapons are more forgiving. They're also still effective at close ranges.

    Meanwhile, with no sweetspot, scouts/recon will be relegated to camping 150+ meters out while only taking shots at stationary targets for headshots. So essentially, they'll be useless. Only top players who consistently get headshots more than half the time (which there are very few of) will be able to play anywhere within objective ranges without getting destroyed by every other class.

    I can't wait to see even more complaints than in BF1 that scouts are useless hillhumpers who contribute very little to the team. Because this only cements that further by forcing them into it.

    Scout was already the worst performing class in BF1. It will be even more so now.

    Especially if the damage drop off is as bad as was stated in this thread as well. What's the scouts role then? They suck for close range. They suck for mid range. And that damage dropoff, if true, will make them terrible for long range as well.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited June 2018
    I'm seriously considering switching to a medic or support main. 33 damage at range on an LMG at 600 or 700+ rpm... it's just too good to pass up!
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    I'm seriously considering switching to a medic or support main. 33 damage at range on an LMG at 600 or 700+ rpm... it's just too good to pass up!

    Plus you get spotting flares, can build up fortifications, and bypass the attrition system by resupplying yourself.

    Maybe we should make SMGs and LMGs take 10 shots to the body to kill and only 3 to the head. After all, "good assault players don't need fast body shot TTK's to do well." Lets make their skill requirement high as well.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    I'm seriously considering switching to a medic or support main. 33 damage at range on an LMG at 600 or 700+ rpm... it's just too good to pass up!

    Plus you get spotting flares, can build up fortifications, and bypass the attrition system by resupplying yourself.

    They say the 5 stages of grief when you lose somethind precious are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. I'm gonna skip straight to acceptance this time haha xD
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