Weekly Debrief

Article from EA's chief creative explaining to either 'accept women are in the game or don't buy it'

Comments

  • pinchylillobster
    972 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Zviko0 wrote: »
    Also, listening to the community does not mean agreeing with the community. They take our feedback, but they're by no means required to act on it.

    No but why wouldn't they. Are you listening to yourself? If you were game developer and community wanted soemthing but you don't agree and give them something else instead, then you are a very bad at businessman

    The "community " is made up of all sorts of different players from "I want this to be 100% accurate WWII simulator" to "Couldnt care less as long as its fun". One group of players being vocal about the game does not necessitate immediate change to the detrimate of another group. It's at the developers discretion as to which changes are better for the health of the game.
  • TEKNOCODE
    10822 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Zviko0 wrote: »
    TEKNOCODE wrote: »
    Zviko0 wrote: »
    Also, listening to the community does not mean agreeing with the community. They take our feedback, but they're by no means required to act on it.

    No but why wouldn't they. Are you listening to yourself? If you were game developer and community wanted soemthing but you don't agree and give them something else instead, then you are a very bad businessman.

    A small portion of the community. Many community members want this level of customization.

    Again, can you show me the numbers? How do you guys know which is the majority? The other guy in the other thread, which is now closed, said because there aren't 12.5mil people complaining. Is that your clue too? Because think about how stupid that sounds. If 25mil people bought BF1 there should be 12.5mil complaining here so we are "the majority"? There arent even 0.008% people on this forum then if 25mil bought BF1....
    Yet, you utilizing the term community is correct?
  • Loqtrall
    12020 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member

    The "community " is made up of all sorts of different players from "I want this to be 100% accurate WWII simulator" to "Couldnt care less as long as its fun". One group of players being vocal about the game does not necessitate immediate change to the detrimate of another group. It's at the developers discretion as to which changes are better for the health of the game.

    Whoa there, man, you're making too much sense.
  • Rombibombii
    574 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I don't see why adding women to this game is a bad thing. You want historical accuracy all of a sudden? In Battlefield? Oh my dear, Battlefield has never been historically accurate so that argument is invalid. You hate the fact there are prosthetics in the game? Too bad, it existed, sure you wouldn't be allowed on the front line, but it's a game and even multiplayer, who cares? She could wear a uniform? So? That happened too back then, once again maybe not frontline for western armies but it sure did happen afterall.

    Nah, the only reason to be really salty is the "how" in my opinion. Because I am absolutely cool with everything that is added/changed right now and I've been around since BF1942. Okay, the BattleRoyale is a bit of a no go for me as I fear it'll damage the core gameplay and the community becoming even more toxic (as it has gone south big time since BF1). Why being salty on the "how"? It's comments that were made by that Dev on Reddit about 'right side of history' and simply the fact that it's all 'forced'. Then I mean forced as in, keep throwing it in peoples faces so much that instead of it being acknowledged and noticed and people being like 'oh, women are added that's cool' it was done to the point 'okay, we get it now *** off'. That's where it went wrong for me. Once again, I am 100% fine with what is being done, just now how it's being done.

    It's the arrogance from this Dice dev (forgot name) on Reddit with 'right side of history' and stories like this that irritate me and probably a lot of people given the huge dislike. However, I fear that a fairly large amount of people is indeed simply against female gamers given the huge amount of sexism that happens towards female gamers. If you think this doesn't happen, even in well monitored communities/groups it happens and despite acting hard on it, it still happens. Why? Who knows. Gaming was seen as a 'male' thing and thus the whole idea of females was a bit odd for times. But here we are, roughly 40% female gamers and 60% male, the scales are balancing. Though in FPS games it's likely to be 80-90% male and 10-20% female but still.

    Back to the point, things do need to change and change is often perceived as bad. But change has to be made gradually. Now it just felt like a political agenda being forced down our throats and the comments made by the Dice dev in question did not help, not at all. If the 2nd trailer would've been used and then had some female soldiers in it, then I think people would've been fine with it. But with the initial reveal trailer... It was chaos, it felt forced, it felt wrong. Despite the good intentions.

    Bottom line, I support the change, but it sure could've and should've been marketed differently.

    Sidenote: This time the marketing was off in general though. The reveal lacked information, the EA Play/E3 lacked everything. We're hardly getting anything from the direct source as we all have to just rely on Game Changers, YouTubers/Streamers instead. Which is not a good way to market a product IMO. But, from what I understood. EA/DICE are a bit scared after the SWBF2 failure and overmarketing that game. I understand they are trying to change/learn new ways and it takes time, but a look at BF1 and how t hat went would've been enough.
  • warslag
    1449 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Do what the man said and don't buy his game.
  • Loqtrall
    12020 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    warslag wrote: »
    Do what the man said and don't buy his game.

  • Zviko0
    1628 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TEKNOCODE wrote: »
    Zviko0 wrote: »
    TEKNOCODE wrote: »
    Zviko0 wrote: »
    Also, listening to the community does not mean agreeing with the community. They take our feedback, but they're by no means required to act on it.

    No but why wouldn't they. Are you listening to yourself? If you were game developer and community wanted soemthing but you don't agree and give them something else instead, then you are a very bad businessman.

    A small portion of the community. Many community members want this level of customization.

    Again, can you show me the numbers? How do you guys know which is the majority? The other guy in the other thread, which is now closed, said because there aren't 12.5mil people complaining. Is that your clue too? Because think about how stupid that sounds. If 25mil people bought BF1 there should be 12.5mil complaining here so we are "the majority"? There arent even 0.008% people on this forum then if 25mil bought BF1....
    Yet, you utilizing the term community is correct?

    Yes. Read it all. I responded to a guy who said community. Not portion of it, minority, majority....just community.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5441 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    INB4 feminists cry about "Bad treatment of woman in a Battlefield games" as they did in other games. I can already see players dragging dead women bodies and throwing them off the cliff or into the water and then SJWs will see those videos and be like "REMOVE WOMEN FROM BF5"

    But the fact that its forced diversity is here and we cannot do anything about it. Welcome to 2018.

    Please tell me how is it forced when you have a choice to make all your classes be male soldiers? BF1 has more forced stuff than this one.
  • Khaotik707
    584 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 2018
    Zviko0 wrote: »
    Also, listening to the community does not mean agreeing with the community. They take our feedback, but they're by no means required to act on it.

    No but why wouldn't they. Are you listening to yourself? If you were game developer and community wanted soemthing but you don't agree and give them something else instead, then you are a very bad at businessman

    The "community " is made up of all sorts of different players from "I want this to be 100% accurate WWII simulator" to "Couldnt care less as long as its fun". One group of players being vocal about the game does not necessitate immediate change to the detrimate of another group. It's at the developers discretion as to which changes are better for the health of the game.

    No one knows and the majority will go along in silence and either play the game or won't. People often delude themselves into thinking forum users are some kind of majority when less than 1% of the playerbase uses the forum and you'd be lucky if 5% of the playerbase has ever even logged in. So, we can make suggestions or give input or whatever, but even in every forum user unanimously agreed on something you're still looking at an extremely vocal minority.

    I mean to me the whole women in Battlefield thing is whatever, I don't care, the only thing that will annoy me is seeing 80% female soldiers because I think that's what will happen, but I can't see making me enjoy the game any less. And I guess if it encourages more women to try the game than it's adding extra players they might not have gotten otherwise, which isn't a bad thing.
  • YourLocalPlumber
    2877 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    INB4 feminists cry about "Bad treatment of woman in a Battlefield games" as they did in other games. I can already see players dragging dead women bodies and throwing them off the cliff or into the water and then SJWs will see those videos and be like "REMOVE WOMEN FROM BF5"

    But the fact that its forced diversity is here and we cannot do anything about it. Welcome to 2018.

    Please tell me how is it forced when you have a choice to make all your classes be male soldiers? BF1 has more forced stuff than this one.

    Allowing then on each faction, putting a female soldier (Although she looks really cool I give them that) on the front cover of the game, giving that female chick more than a half screen time of the very first reveal trailer and making her that "Savior" of you is forced diversity.

    BF1 is not forced diversity because its done in a believable way. I know there were women in the White Army, even Dice said that they added them for that reason. Here Dice is like "You take it or leave it, we add because we want" without any informational backup.

    Watch this vide, the guy sums up my feelings.
  • YourLocalPlumber
    2877 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    INB4 feminists cry about "Bad treatment of woman in a Battlefield games" as they did in other games. I can already see players dragging dead women bodies and throwing them off the cliff or into the water and then SJWs will see those videos and be like "REMOVE WOMEN FROM BF5"

    But the fact that its forced diversity is here and we cannot do anything about it. Welcome to 2018.

    Please tell me how is it forced when you have a choice to make all your classes be male soldiers? BF1 has more forced stuff than this one.

    Wow my post just got deleted, holy, someone doesn't like to hear truth/

    Anyway, watch this video, sums up my opinion.
  • suffice_ls
    491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    WTF even is this?!...just listen to the voice in the background as soon as the rocket hits the tank...



    Sounds like someone's gettin' a ploughin'! #MURSHION :D :D :D
  • Zviko0
    1628 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    suffice_ls wrote: »
    WTF even is this?!...just listen to the voice in the background as soon as the rocket hits the tank...



    Sounds like someone's gettin' a ploughin'! #MURSHION :D :D :D

    He was watching porn in the background. Forgot to edit it out.
  • YourLocalPlumber
    2877 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Zviko0 wrote: »
    suffice_ls wrote: »
    WTF even is this?!...just listen to the voice in the background as soon as the rocket hits the tank...



    Sounds like someone's gettin' a ploughin'! #MURSHION :D :D :D

    He was watching porn in the background. Forgot to edit it out.

    When I was watching this I for a second thought I forgot to close pornhub.
  • suffice_ls
    491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 2018
    Zviko0 wrote: »
    He was watching porn in the background. Forgot to edit it out.

    When I was watching this I for a second thought I forgot to close pornhub.

    Well, it's obviously in-game. What a totally cool re-imagining of WW2. :|

  • cameldung
    130 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    These statements from this EA guy are pure manipulation. I don't believe for a minute that a person in his position is stupid enough to mistake this outcry for a move against women in video games. And he too uses his underaged daughter as a tool (the DICE employee at least sounded sencere). I find this way of marketing disturbing.
  • Natetendo83
    1022 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    warslag wrote: »
    Do what the man said and don't buy his game.

    I think people are really underestimating how many people that's going to be. The split that popped up within the Battlefield community is pretty crazy. All of my friends who I have been playing Battlefield with for over a decade are all out on the next one. I get that my circle of friends isn't reflective of the overall picture, but based on discussions I've seen and general reactions I know we aren't this "vocal minority" that people make it out to be.

    A friend of mine who leans liberal even said she thought the game looked stupid with the cosmetic changes. This isn't as cut and dry as people think. A lot of people see WWII a certain way, and breaking that with the intention of doing it for inclusiveness and diversity isn't going to resonate with a lot of them.
  • Loqtrall
    12020 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    warslag wrote: »
    Do what the man said and don't buy his game.

    I think people are really underestimating how many people that's going to be.

    I'm almost positive it won't be so many people that it negatively affects the franchise or the title.

    I also think people are underestimating how many people that are complaining are still going to buy the game either way.
  • suffice_ls
    491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I think people are really underestimating how many people that's going to be.

    I hate to say it, but I hope that the game, as it currently stands, ends up a big-time flop. Purely because of this.
    A lot of people see WWII a certain way, and breaking that with the intention of doing it for inclusiveness and diversity isn't going to resonate with a lot of them.

    THANK YOU, @Natetendo83 . Yeah man, it's totally jarring with everything that sets the WW2 scene! 1 example...listen to the character's voice when the rocket hits the tank:



    the intention of doing it for inclusiveness and diversity isn't going to resonate with a lot of them.

    I disagree here though. They're only dressing it up as being purely for the sake of inclusivity...when really, it's SO for the money that inclusivity will make them.

  • pinchylillobster
    972 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    This isn't as cut and dry as people think. A lot of people see WWII a certain way, and breaking that with the intention of doing it for inclusiveness and diversity isn't going to resonate with a lot of them.

    It is pretty cut and dry. This whole thing with women in WWII is a carbon copy debate of what happened with BF1 and black soldiers. BF1 is, commercially at least, the most successful battlefield to date despite that. It will be the same with BFV.



This discussion has been closed.