Article from EA's chief creative explaining to either 'accept women are in the game or don't buy it'

Comments

  • NLBartmaN
    4484 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TEKNOCODE wrote: »
    The game was made with customization and women. People either purchase it or don’t.

    I didn’t like tf2’s direction. I didn’t buy it. Nor, did I complain on the forum that the dec should “fix” the game to my liking.

    The final product is not yet there ... and women on itself is not the problem

    Yes the game was made with customizations in the current way.
    But by discussing it, EA/Dice get the chance to change some things to make more money, give people more fun form the game, it is called feedback.
    If a gamechanger is even asking about our opinion, we give it.

    Maybe if you and a lots of others would have complained about the direction of TF2 they would have changed it, so you could buy it.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    TEKNOCODE wrote: »
    The game was made with customization and women. People either purchase it or don’t.

    I didn’t like tf2’s direction. I didn’t buy it. Nor, did I complain on the forum that the dec should “fix” the game to my liking.

    The final product is not yet there ... and women on itself is not the problem

    Yes the game was made with customizations in the current way.
    But by discussing it, EA/Dice get the chance to change some things to make more money, give people more fun form the game, it is called feedback.
    If a gamechanger is even asking about our opinion, we give it.

    Maybe if you and a lots of others would have complained about the direction of TF2 they would have changed it, so you could buy it.

    And they stated they are not changing this.....so maybe give feedback somewhere that is useful?
  • TEKNOCODE
    11592 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    TEKNOCODE wrote: »
    The game was made with customization and women. People either purchase it or don’t.

    I didn’t like tf2’s direction. I didn’t buy it. Nor, did I complain on the forum that the dec should “fix” the game to my liking.

    The final product is not yet there ... and women on itself is not the problem

    Yes the game was made with customizations in the current way.
    But by discussing it, EA/Dice get the chance to change some things to make more money, give people more fun form the game, it is called feedback.
    If a gamechanger is even asking about our opinion, we give it.

    Maybe if you and a lots of others would have complained about the direction of TF2 they would have changed it, so you could buy it.

    Why would I want the dev to change it? Respawn made the game that it wanted. It just wasn’t for me.
  • SumwhatKrazy
    557 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018

    Medics had to be awesome back in WW2 if they could revive people by sticking them with a needle, man.

    History!

    Such an original and clever reply!

    Glad you appreciate my efforts. It was hard to try and put myself in your same level of argumentation skills.

    As far as I know, the devs are the ones who decide what is "historically accurate" enough to put in their game.

    If you come to Battlefield to learn history, you are doing it wrong.

    lol its just such a common response. I think people confuse a game being "realistic" and being "historically accurate" like its the exact same thing.
    Yes they have similar meanings but i dont think anyone wants BF to be too realistic as far as game play. If they did they wouldn't play Battlefield. They'd play something like "Arma"

    Oh and whilst i find video games can be educational, i wouldn't say they are my main or only source for learning history.







    Lol I can seem to tell those people it's just a game, because it is. All those complaints about video game violence, etc never amount to anything because the "it's just a game" argument is brought up every time.

    It makes everyone else ignorant of the fact they're discussing something that doesn't matter as if it has immense meaning. The 13 year old girl is wise because she can come to the realization that having women in a video game based on ww2 is not a major issue. It's a design choice in a game.

    The feature as it stands now stays authentic to the ww2 time period. It represents those authentic aspects in unrealistic and historically inaccurate ways just like EVERYTHING ELSE in these games.

    The nonsensical thing is the notion that this ONE THING needs to be historically accurate among a myriad of other things that are blatantly historically inaccurate and in your face for the majority of the match.

    I'm watching a squad mate revive his teammate by checking his body and picking him up off the ground - and people are seeing a trench coat and saying it's breaking their immersion.

    It's ridiculous. I've watched hours of gameplay so far and in the thick of matches I watched you can't even tell what gender the people you're killing are unless they scream. I was pointing out to my friends that people are complaining about customization, and meanwhile the guys walking in front of Jackfrags in his video don't look outlandish or like they don't belong SOLELY because they're not in a standard issue uniform.

    I mean you make a fair point but as i said above, realistic game play and a game being historically accurate aren't necessarily the same thing. And some things stand out more than others.
    Female soldiers stand out to me more than if a weapon or uniform is not 100% accurate, for me anyhow. And before i get accused, i have nothing against women in games. Iam actually currently playing "Kings bounty"Armoured Princess" so iam playing as a girl now in that lol.
    But its a fantasy game with magic and demons, not based on real events. Plus a female leading an army in a fantasy RPG is believable.

    I'll say again, i just think it was unnecessary and virtue signalling.
    Will it be game breaking? maybe for some. Will some people not buy it now, sure. Will it bring a new audience to the game, doubtful.
    I expect most BF fans will still buy it. But dissing your fans is what Star Wars did, didn't work well for Solo.
  • NLBartmaN
    4484 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    And they stated they are not changing this.....so maybe give feedback somewhere that is useful?

    Westie (gamechanger and "informant for EA") asked for our opinion.

    And everything can change when you get lots of bad publicity and don't reach your financial targets.
  • eilef
    10 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    I like how there is option to invite more players in to this game. Introduce historical customization only "off switch", like in World of Tanks, but DICE is so "proud, accomplished and on right side of history" that they would rather loose on few hundred thousand dollars, than try to fix this problem. I mean there is probably a thousand or two (maybe more) people who will cancel their pre orders, and will not buy the game. That’s like 60 thousand dollars for every thousand players who decided not to buy their game. But they say its okay, we don’t need your money, because we are on “right side of history”. This shows you exactly why EA is horrible at everything.
  • Loqtrall
    12468 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I mean you make a fair point but as i said above, realistic game play and a game being historically accurate aren't necessarily the same thing. And some things stand out more than others.
    Female soldiers stand out to me more than if a weapon or uniform is not 100% accurate, for me anyhow. And before i get accused, i have nothing against women in games. Iam actually currently playing "Kings bounty"Armoured Princess" so iam playing as a girl now in that lol.
    But its a fantasy game with magic and demons, not based on real events. Plus a female leading an army in a fantasy RPG is believable.

    I'll say again, i just think it was unnecessary and virtue signalling.
    Will it be game breaking? maybe for some. Will some people not buy it now, sure. Will it bring a new audience to the game, doubtful.
    I expect most BF fans will still buy it. But dissing your fans is what Star Wars did, didn't work well for Solo.

    Realism and historical accuracy go hand in hand. An argument for the historically accurate depiction of women or clothing in a video game is an argument for the video game to more closely resemble reality, or what REALLY happened in REAL life. The entire basis of historical accuracy when concerning games is reality.

    To me, someone who extensively studied ww2 weaponry from early years in high school, throughout college, and beyond, it's blatantly and glaringly historically accurate how guns are in every historical hd title aside from MAYBE BFV (there's still inaccuracies there too).

    A British soldier holding an STG in a battle thay happened before the STG was even used is just as jarring to me as seeing a woman on the frontlines. They're both in the same exact realm of "authentic, but unrealistic".

    This just furthers the fact that this entire debacle is entirely based on not only personal opinion, but one's own knowledge of the actual ww2 conflict, and what constitutes being "authentic" to the pre-1945 time period.

    There was literally, just today, someone who said the German sniper mask made people look like Jason Voorhees and that it couldn't possibly exist and had to be made up.

    It had to be pointed out to this person that the mask did exist, and was even actually used on ww2.

    That's the core issue here. People think customization is going to be outlandish, when the cosmetics as well as the color palettes available are faction based, and are no doubt going to be authentic to the ww2 time period, no matter how unrealistically or historically inaccurate they're used in the game.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    And they stated they are not changing this.....so maybe give feedback somewhere that is useful?

    Westie (gamechanger and "informant for EA") asked for our opinion.

    And everything can change when you get lots of bad publicity and don't reach your financial targets.

    So then go on Westie's page and give your opinion. Westie is not here nor is he the owner of this page.
  • AGAS-UY
    21 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    What's next? Native american soldiers riding bears while sniping? Come on, where do you draw the line here? If the next DLC is anything like Wolfenstein: The New Order what are you guys going to say? After all it's 'just a game' amirite?

    Also, why are people against a 'Load default models' toggle? Baffles the mind, people who want a more 'mursive' experience will get it, and those that want a Sims style battlefield experience will get it. WIN - WIN. Period. END.

  • Dogwoggle11
    2678 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    What's next? Native american soldiers riding bears while sniping? Come on, where do you draw the line here? If the next DLC is anything like Wolfenstein: The New Order what are you guys going to say? After all it's 'just a game' amirite?

    Also, why are people against a 'Load default models' toggle? Baffles the mind, people who want a more 'mursive' experience will get it, and those that want a Sims style battlefield experience will get it. WIN - WIN. Period. END.

    Relax, man. It's a game.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    Why doesn't it make sense? Tell me why are you ok with people dropping from 2 story buildings without breaking a leg? Using a hellreigel? Having Russian heavy bombers painted in Red Barron colors doing bombing runs on Ballroom Blitz? Having infinite number of parachute drops? Revives with a syringe or paddles that not only bring a person to life but magically erases all wounds? People pulling ammo crates out of thin air to drop everywhere....oh and ammo crates that can stop a tank shell without injury.

    Yup...makes no sense at all....
  • Loqtrall
    12468 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    What's next? Native american soldiers riding bears while sniping? Come on, where do you draw the line here? If the next DLC is anything like Wolfenstein: The New Order what are you guys going to say? After all it's 'just a game' amirite?

    Also, why are people against a 'Load default models' toggle? Baffles the mind, people who want a more 'mursive' experience will get it, and those that want a Sims style battlefield experience will get it. WIN - WIN. Period. END.

    I believe the argument is "its a game, it doesn't HAVE to be realistic".

    And many people can just see that a toggle off for customization would sort of defeat a large portion of the purpose of such a feature in an fps game where 99% of the time you can't even see your own body.
  • MissCommissar
    403 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    Why doesn't it make sense? Tell me why are you ok with people dropping from 2 story buildings without breaking a leg? Using a hellreigel? Having Russian heavy bombers painted in Red Barron colors doing bombing runs on Ballroom Blitz? Having infinite number of parachute drops? Revives with a syringe or paddles that not only bring a person to life but magically erases all wounds? People pulling ammo crates out of thin air to drop everywhere....oh and ammo crates that can stop a tank shell without injury.

    Yup...makes no sense at all....

    Comparing uncompareable, though. That's your mistake.
  • Loqtrall
    12468 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    Why doesn't it make sense? Tell me why are you ok with people dropping from 2 story buildings without breaking a leg? Using a hellreigel? Having Russian heavy bombers painted in Red Barron colors doing bombing runs on Ballroom Blitz? Having infinite number of parachute drops? Revives with a syringe or paddles that not only bring a person to life but magically erases all wounds? People pulling ammo crates out of thin air to drop everywhere....oh and ammo crates that can stop a tank shell without injury.

    Yup...makes no sense at all....

    Comparing uncompareable, though. That's your mistake.

    They're directly comparable. The hellriegel in BF1 is at the same level of unrealism and historical inaccuracy in BF1 as customization is in BF5. So is the cei rigotti, the black scouts, the female scouts, the non faction locked vehicles and weapons, the entire map of Amiens, etc. The list goes on.

    Your response is just another example of people picking and choosing what they think is acceptably inaccurate based on their own personal opinions or train of thought.

    It's an objective fact that BF5s customization is by far and away not the first grossly historically inaccurate feature in a BF game based on historical events.

    BF1 was filled to the brim with historical inaccuracies and barely anyone batted an eyelash at it. Hell, some media outlets were lambasting DICE for NOT including playable females in BF1.
  • AGAS-UY
    21 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited June 2018
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    Why doesn't it make sense? Tell me why are you ok with people dropping from 2 story buildings without breaking a leg? Using a hellreigel? Having Russian heavy bombers painted in Red Barron colors doing bombing runs on Ballroom Blitz? Having infinite number of parachute drops? Revives with a syringe or paddles that not only bring a person to life but magically erases all wounds? People pulling ammo crates out of thin air to drop everywhere....oh and ammo crates that can stop a tank shell without injury.

    Yup...makes no sense at all....

    Like I said, where do you draw the line? I can live with all that for the sake of gameplay, but again, if I follow your logic you'd be okay with spaceships and dinosaurs, after all, it's not realistic and it's just a game.

    Loqtrall wrote: »
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    What's next? Native american soldiers riding bears while sniping? Come on, where do you draw the line here? If the next DLC is anything like Wolfenstein: The New Order what are you guys going to say? After all it's 'just a game' amirite?

    Also, why are people against a 'Load default models' toggle? Baffles the mind, people who want a more 'mursive' experience will get it, and those that want a Sims style battlefield experience will get it. WIN - WIN. Period. END.

    I believe the argument is "its a game, it doesn't HAVE to be realistic".

    And many people can just see that a toggle off for customization would sort of defeat a large portion of the purpose of such a feature in an fps game where 99% of the time you can't even see your own body.

    THANK YOU. Glad to see some people can still follow a discussion.

    Regarding the toggle, it's customization in itself, that toggle gives me and you the ability to customize the game whatever we want to. It wasn't a big deal with emblems (Had to turn them off when I saw a Zeppelin with Trump's face on it) why is it a big deal now?
  • herodes87
    1290 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I think its funny that people defending the Game are Like "you want 100% historical accuracy". People want an authentic Game. Not more or less.

    They could had still added women as Soviet Snipers. Both Sides would get what they want.

    But acting Like EA and Dice marking everyone that is against it as sexist is pretty lame.
  • Loqtrall
    12468 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    Why doesn't it make sense? Tell me why are you ok with people dropping from 2 story buildings without breaking a leg? Using a hellreigel? Having Russian heavy bombers painted in Red Barron colors doing bombing runs on Ballroom Blitz? Having infinite number of parachute drops? Revives with a syringe or paddles that not only bring a person to life but magically erases all wounds? People pulling ammo crates out of thin air to drop everywhere....oh and ammo crates that can stop a tank shell without injury.

    Yup...makes no sense at all....

    Like I said, where do you draw the line? I can live with all that for the sake of gameplay, but again, if I follow your logic you'd be okay with spaceships and dinosaurs, after all, it's not realistic and it's just a game.

    Loqtrall wrote: »
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    What's next? Native american soldiers riding bears while sniping? Come on, where do you draw the line here? If the next DLC is anything like Wolfenstein: The New Order what are you guys going to say? After all it's 'just a game' amirite?

    Also, why are people against a 'Load default models' toggle? Baffles the mind, people who want a more 'mursive' experience will get it, and those that want a Sims style battlefield experience will get it. WIN - WIN. Period. END.

    I believe the argument is "its a game, it doesn't HAVE to be realistic".

    And many people can just see that a toggle off for customization would sort of defeat a large portion of the purpose of such a feature in an fps game where 99% of the time you can't even see your own body.

    THANK YOU. Glad to see some people can still follow a discussion.

    Regarding the toggle, it's customization in itself, that toggle gives me and you the ability to customize the game whatever we want to. It wasn't a big deal with emblems (Had to turn them off when I saw a Zeppelin with Trump's face on it) why is it a big deal now?

    But the point of customization was to customize your CHARACTER in the way that you want it. That's it, as simple as that.

    There were no guarantees you will be able to make your character look like ANYONE with ANY article of clothing you can think of, and that's been furthered by devs confirming it will be authentic, faction based, and limited severely in color options - and there was absolutely no mention of customizing the game as a whole to be whatever you want...

    And it wasn't a big deal with emblems because there's plenty of blatatly offensive and disgusting emblems people make out there. Emblems are entirely user created, customization is not, it's just a set amount of cosmetic items to choose from. You can't deck your soldier out in BF5 so he's wearing a suit made of genitals.
  • MissCommissar
    403 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    Why doesn't it make sense? Tell me why are you ok with people dropping from 2 story buildings without breaking a leg? Using a hellreigel? Having Russian heavy bombers painted in Red Barron colors doing bombing runs on Ballroom Blitz? Having infinite number of parachute drops? Revives with a syringe or paddles that not only bring a person to life but magically erases all wounds? People pulling ammo crates out of thin air to drop everywhere....oh and ammo crates that can stop a tank shell without injury.

    Yup...makes no sense at all....

    Comparing uncompareable, though. That's your mistake.

    They're directly comparable. The hellriegel in BF1 is at the same level of unrealism and historical inaccuracy in BF1 as customization is in BF5. So is the cei rigotti, the black scouts, the female scouts, the non faction locked vehicles and weapons, the entire map of Amiens, etc. The list goes on.

    Your response is just another example of people picking and choosing what they think is acceptably inaccurate based on their own personal opinions or train of thought.

    It's an objective fact that BF5s customization is by far and away not the first grossly historically inaccurate feature in a BF game based on historical events.

    BF1 was filled to the brim with historical inaccuracies and barely anyone batted an eyelash at it. Hell, some media outlets were lambasting DICE for NOT including playable females in BF1.

    Bro, again - they are not compareable. You can't compare unrealistic elements of the game, that do add some value to the gameplay and those, that don't.

    And ffs, who cares about "historical accuracy"? It's boring af by itself. Authenitcity and immersion - that's what we need. Some amount of historical accuracy for that is welcome. But it's not a top priority.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    AGAS-UY wrote: »
    I'm really starting to hate the 'ITS A GAME ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC' argument, it makes no sense.

    Why doesn't it make sense? Tell me why are you ok with people dropping from 2 story buildings without breaking a leg? Using a hellreigel? Having Russian heavy bombers painted in Red Barron colors doing bombing runs on Ballroom Blitz? Having infinite number of parachute drops? Revives with a syringe or paddles that not only bring a person to life but magically erases all wounds? People pulling ammo crates out of thin air to drop everywhere....oh and ammo crates that can stop a tank shell without injury.

    Yup...makes no sense at all....

    Like I said, where do you draw the line? I can live with all that for the sake of gameplay, but again, if I follow your logic you'd be okay with spaceships and dinosaurs, after all, it's not realistic and it's just a game.

    Actually it doesn't follow the same logic....youre being silly just to argue.

    The stuff so far in BFV are accurate for the time.

    What you did is, taking your own words, Comparing uncompareable, though. That's your mistake.
  • Solid_SkG
    1134 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member

    herodes87 wrote: »
    I think its funny that people defending the Game are Like "you want 100% historical accuracy". People want an authentic Game. Not more or less.

    They could had still added women as Soviet Snipers. Both Sides would get what they want.

    But acting Like EA and Dice marking everyone that is against it as sexist is pretty lame.

    After the shitstorm in BF1 about the black german and the femal russian sniper and a big part of the community asking for customization nearly after every update they decided to give the full option to us to create our characters however we want...and smh people still complain.

    Ill say it again,everything we have seen regarding customization is 100% era related and authetink...just because you didnt see blue war pain on saving private ryan or band of brothers doesnt make it innacurate.
This discussion has been closed.