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I’m glad sweet spot is going but I’m worried about scout effectiveness

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b2tchwood
1042 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
The sweet spot made the scout class way more accessible than it really ought to be and also made it incredibly effective on the battlefield.

A nerf was indeed needed but the I’m worried about the overall effectiveness whilst using sniper rifles in BFV.

A mechanic I would like to see implemented and made exclusive to the class is a headshot no revive mechanic. A scout should be aiming for the head and this would definitely keep sniper rifles an effective tool on the battlefield and make it incredibly rewarding at the same time.

I know sniper rifles are a hated tool for most but for those that love it we just want to be as effective as possible without needing a crutch. In my eyes the revive train is a crutch. And this would be in a way a nice counter without it being OP as it still takes a decent amount of skill to consistently hit those headshots.

Comments

  • Khaotik707
    584 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 19
    Well those longer ranged snipers will be fine and just as effective as they ever were. Nothing to worry about for them.

    My worry is for the PTFO mid ranged aggressive scouts. I've got doubts that we can be overly effective in the role - I'm keen to try it out though and need to see how it plays to actually make a judgment on it.

    I'm not sure the mechanic you mentioned would alleviate my concerns but I'd be ok with it within a certain range.
  • vulpesveritas
    114 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    There already is no revives for a headshot in BF1, if I'm not mistaken, so.. yeah.

    Random novel solution I just thought of, about we keep sweet spot for rifles, giving iron sight rifles more of a damage advantage if you're skilled enough to use one, and just have long-range scopes reduce your damage by like 5 points or so with a bolt action rifle, ensuring high chances of killing injured players or guarenteeing a kill with a headshot? It would promote PTFO scouting while also increasing minimum skill level.
  • Noodlesocks
    1316 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Scouts were pretty useless in BF1 and from how the classes are set up, BFV seems to be following that trend.
     
    In regards to bolt action rifles, I'm just hoping they behave more like they did in BF3 than BF4 so playing a rifleman is a bit more viable than in BF1.
  • GuN_sLiNgErXD15
    459 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Always liked that idea and adds a great dynamic to ba’s, dice plz.
  • LOLGotYerTags
    9879 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    There already is no revives for a headshot in BF1, if I'm not mistaken, so.. yeah.

    No, Headshot kills can also be revived.

    You're thinking of the melee kills, those are the ones unable to be revived IIRC
  • Loqtrall
    11159 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I'd support a no-revive headshot mechanic solely for rifles, but I also think that the removal of the sweet spot has been counter balanced by the Scout class getting the flare (which is way better now than in BF1), the Spawn beacon, and now has the ONLY way to 3d spot enemies in the entire game.

    I have to say I would have rather gotten a 0-15m OHK range to stop non-hs OHKs at range and give Scouts a fighting chance in objective playing situations while being able to retain using their primary weapons.
  • b2tchwood
    1042 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Evils119 wrote: »
    Well those longer ranged snipers will be fine and just as effective as they ever were. Nothing to worry about for them.

    My worry is for the PTFO mid ranged aggressive scouts. I've got doubts that we can be overly effective in the role - I'm keen to try it out though and need to see how it plays to actually make a judgment on it.

    I'm not sure the mechanic you mentioned would alleviate my concerns but I'd be ok with it within a certain range.

    That is where I like to play, more of a marksman roll than a sniper, I like to move with my squad. I honestly think that it would bring back that fear of encountering a sniper, especially for those that really like their kd. Would you risk rushing a seasoned sniper if you knew there’s no chance a revive if he lands that headshot??
    There already is no revives for a headshot in BF1, if I'm not mistaken, so.. yeah.

    Random novel solution I just thought of, about we keep sweet spot for rifles, giving iron sight rifles more of a damage advantage if you're skilled enough to use one, and just have long-range scopes reduce your damage by like 5 points or so with a bolt action rifle, ensuring high chances of killing injured players or guarenteeing a kill with a headshot? It would promote PTFO scouting while also increasing minimum skill level.

    The iron sights in my eyes were the problem in BF1 (especially on consoles with aim assist where it was s completely overwhelming advantage). The sweet spot is just too powerful in my eyes and another compromise is required. This for me fits the bill. It benefits ptfo snipers and long range ones.
  • CnConrad
    1044 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    I'd support a no-revive headshot mechanic solely for rifles, but I also think that the removal of the sweet spot has been counter balanced by the Scout class getting the flare (which is way better now than in BF1), the Spawn beacon, and now has the ONLY way to 3d spot enemies in the entire game.

    I have to say I would have rather gotten a 0-15m OHK range to stop non-hs OHKs at range and give Scouts a fighting chance in objective playing situations while being able to retain using their primary weapons.

    I disagree.

    I think the sweet spot was a marvelous idea. Scouts should not get ghetto shotguns.

    The whole sweetspot idea was to get scouts to get within 20-60m of the objective.

    Ghetto shotguns just gives more brain dead running and gunning.

    Imo at the very least give scouts proper shotguns rather than to assault. That will give agressive recon a proper weapon.
  • Loqtrall
    11159 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    CnConrad wrote: »
    I disagree.

    I think the sweet spot was a marvelous idea. Scouts should not get ghetto shotguns.

    The whole sweetspot idea was to get scouts to get within 20-60m of the objective.

    Ghetto shotguns just gives more brain dead running and gunning.

    Imo at the very least give scouts proper shotguns rather than to assault. That will give agressive recon a proper weapon.

    Sorry, but the "ghetto shotgun" argument is weak and always has been since BF3.

    Even in past games with a 0-12m OHK, using a rifle in cqb is significantly harder than most weapon types. They're hardly comparable to the performance of shotguns in cqb. They're by far the most unforgiving weapon type in cqb even if they have the potential to OHK, and in most scenarios missing a single shot in cqb means certain death.

    Shotguns are significantly more forgiving and are catered directly to cqb engagements, I don't see how the two are comparable. One is a semi-auto weapon able to hip fire in a wide cone to OHK people in cqb with barely a need to aim - the other is a single action precision weapon with an incredibly slow rof and a blatant need for accuracy in all situations.

    I would rather have an excuse to be using a rifle ON OBJECTIVES with the rest of my team, rather than sitting 40m away from everything to be at my most effective.
  • MikeManiac61
    718 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    CnConrad wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    I'd support a no-revive headshot mechanic solely for rifles, but I also think that the removal of the sweet spot has been counter balanced by the Scout class getting the flare (which is way better now than in BF1), the Spawn beacon, and now has the ONLY way to 3d spot enemies in the entire game.

    I have to say I would have rather gotten a 0-15m OHK range to stop non-hs OHKs at range and give Scouts a fighting chance in objective playing situations while being able to retain using their primary weapons.

    I disagree.

    I think the sweet spot was a marvelous idea. Scouts should not get ghetto shotguns.

    The whole sweetspot idea was to get scouts to get within 20-60m of the objective.

    Ghetto shotguns just gives more brain dead running and gunning.

    Imo at the very least give scouts proper shotguns rather than to assault. That will give agressive recon a proper weapon.

    I can't really concur with this. Been playing BF1 since launch and (most that I've seen) Snipers\Recons still end up far away to provide help towards their team.



  • b2tchwood
    1042 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    CnConrad wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    I'd support a no-revive headshot mechanic solely for rifles, but I also think that the removal of the sweet spot has been counter balanced by the Scout class getting the flare (which is way better now than in BF1), the Spawn beacon, and now has the ONLY way to 3d spot enemies in the entire game.

    I have to say I would have rather gotten a 0-15m OHK range to stop non-hs OHKs at range and give Scouts a fighting chance in objective playing situations while being able to retain using their primary weapons.

    I disagree.

    I think the sweet spot was a marvelous idea. Scouts should not get ghetto shotguns.

    The whole sweetspot idea was to get scouts to get within 20-60m of the objective.

    Ghetto shotguns just gives more brain dead running and gunning.

    Imo at the very least give scouts proper shotguns rather than to assault. That will give agressive recon a proper weapon.

    I love that phrase, ghetto shotguns... you still had to hit the upper chest for the kill and gamble that the hit market gods were kind to you. Not having that confidence to push up is more gamebreaking so I always liked the idea of 12m multiplier for when you get caught off guard.

    The sweet spot did quite the opposite, it promoted reserved play because it was just so rewarding. Why push an objective when you can farm kills endlessly? Unless I’m mistaken the balcony on ballroom blitz doesn’t have a flag yet snipers fight tooth and nail for that position.
  • GuN_sLiNgErXD15
    459 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    That balcony does cover b and d flag in cq well and dominates the map in domination.
    The ghetto shotgun thing really isn’t my jam a position iv changed recently, sidearms are for cqb with spotting flares giving you the advantage.

    My issue with thebf1 scout was the lack of points the gadgets get you, medics, supports especially and assaults to a lesser extent all get loads of points and are very effective.
    Spotting flare is great no doubt but the rest are abit lacklustre by comparison, hopefully the return of the spawn becon will be the reward for the tactically award scout.
  • b2tchwood
    1042 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    That balcony does cover b and d flag in cq well and dominates the map in domination.
    The ghetto shotgun thing really isn’t my jam a position iv changed recently, sidearms are for cqb with spotting flares giving you the advantage.

    My issue with thebf1 scout was the lack of points the gadgets get you, medics, supports especially and assaults to a lesser extent all get loads of points and are very effective.
    Spotting flare is great no doubt but the rest are abit lacklustre by comparison, hopefully the return of the spawn becon will be the reward for the tactically award scout.
    But with that argument you can cover a flag from a hill, just because you can see it doesn’t mean you are ptfo’ing. Take Sinai, you can cover A flag from the hill at a similar distance to ballroom. Are these guys PTFO’ing or farming kills? I would argue the latter.

    I understand why people don’t like the 12m multiplier.... but at the same time these are likely people that use the obrez..... go figure it’s okay when it’s a weapon you can use!

    Losing the spawn beacon was a real kick in the nuts for PTFO scouts IMO. But the issue was those who would hill jump and if they were taken out spawn right back in to hillhumpsville. I understand the logic and why it was changed from previous titles.

    I agree with the gadgets though, they were not impressive by any stretch. I’ve used k bullets and flares since day 1, options are limited. But in terms of points the headshot multiplier is where scouts get their points and I can agree with that. Free points for dropping a crate or popping someone’s head.... no brainer really (nice pun I think)
  • b2tchwood
    1042 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    @LOLGotYerTags could you de spam my post please? Thx
  • LOLGotYerTags
    9879 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Fixed
  • b2tchwood
    1042 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Fixed

    Like a boss! B)
  • GuN_sLiNgErXD15
    459 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Its not a question of firing from the “campy” positions more of know when to move to move when the situation changes.
    As for kill farming flags well I guess my opinion would change on how well you’re doing it, if you’re in and arty truck not killing tanks then you’re trash, but scouts killing 30 plus a round And getting some flag cap/defends are going it right.
  • trip1ex
    3681 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited June 20
    lol not needed. watch the youtube for examples of scouts insta-hilling everyone in BFV at EAPlay.

    They don't need no revives for headshots on top of it. On top of making the headshot box bigger and eliminating 3d spotting. Plus snipers already have a built in advantage of being able to kill enemies that can't shoot back at them.



  • b2tchwood
    1042 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Its not a question of firing from the “campy” positions more of know when to move to move when the situation changes.
    As for kill farming flags well I guess my opinion would change on how well you’re doing it, if you’re in and arty truck not killing tanks then you’re trash, but scouts killing 30 plus a round And getting some flag cap/defends are going it right.

    I’ve seen people on Operations shooting from spawn going 60-0 getting flag defends just falling back over and over and over...i wouldn’t say they are doing it right. But getting away from the point here. The mechanism for me did not promote objective play. It made people play more reserved.
  • GuN_sLiNgErXD15
    459 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The mechanism has been a non entity for me only once did I pick a ba for its sweet spot.
    I go for the same ba characteristics I always go for, high bullet velocity, rpm and accuracy recovery between shots.
    I also don’t thinks scouts in bf1 are any worse or better than in bf4 I will say there appears to be more? I could be wrong. But more equal more potatoes I guess.
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