My Feedback On Battlefield V's Current State

«13456
UMPhreak
9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
Let me start by saying that i have not personally played the Alpha, but i have watched hours of gameplay from Battlefield Streamers and Youtubers and am an experienced Battlefield Veteran player myself. There is a ton for me to be excited about in this game, first let me tell you why I feel the changes that were made with the "Attrition" system, are going to be the best for the future of this franchise.
The biggest change coming with the "Attrition" system is Limited Ammo. Players now only spawn with around 2 magazines and get up to 3 from what i have seen, and i love this addition to the game for many reasons.

1. Skill Gap: There are so many ways that Attrition widens the skill gap between Novice Players and Veteran Players. With the new changes made to gunplay, recoil, and suppression, TTK is very fast and not very challenging from what I've seen. With only visual suppression, players are going to be able to be much more aggressive in their gunfights. But with attrition that comes at a cost, which IMO balances out the easier gunplay. Players now have multiple decisions they have to make during the course of a single life. Which is what will define the skill gap between players and more importantly squads and teammates.

"I can just see it now, Im down to my last magazine and kill two guys rushing into my bunker, and the third with my pistol. No ammo but i just killed an enemy with a shotgun. Grab the shotgun just in time before the next squad rushes in "SWIPED!!!" Dropped the entire enemy squad with a shotgun just in time for my teamates to reach me with some much needed ammo."
The novice player would have never made that play they might have taken out the first 3, but never thought to check the ground for a weapon with ammo, as you can no longer take a fallen enemies entire kit only weapon.

2. Squad Play/Teamplay: It really puts an emphasis on working together as a team. Some of my favorite moments in Battlefield games come from working together as a team and will hopefully make people better Teammates, and Battlefield players in the long run. I also love what they did by adding in the immersion of grabbing ammo/meds from a player or Cache but that should not happen while a person is trying to aim down sights. (I would like it if they added in a proper tutorial with a run through for each class which could unlock a new character skin for incentive, This could show new players and even veterans some of the changes to the new building mechanic, Flare Guns, Squad Reviving, etc. After completing each tutorial a player gets a starter skin for the class that they finished the tutorial with. This will then introduce people to the newly added COMPANY customization options for their characters.) Just an idea for any Devs who might come across this.

3. Defensive Play. Having ammo and med caches are a great addition to the Objectives for defense. (Would like to see you be able to grab two extra mags instead of 1) Solo players may now have to take on more of a defensive role to be successful, but with the added points you get for defending objectives will still be able to make their way up the leaderboards. Holding down certain objectives will be very important to ensuring your team is fully stocked and prepared to push on to the next objective. (To counter the imbalance of Offense not having Caches in Grand Operations i would like to see the Building come into play with players able to build up their frontline with foxholes, Caches, Spawn Beacons etc. Also don't want to see Caches on huge chokepoints which would turn into grenade spam all over again.


Out of time for now so I will just split this up into parts, and come back tomorrow to talk about some of the other feedback I have for other parts of the game. How are you guys feeling about Battlefield V's attrition mechanic so far?


Comments

  • UMPhreak
    9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    So while the gameplay/gunplay looks really smooth lets look at what needs to be fixed in this game before it ships.

    Lighting/Visual Clutter: One of the biggest things that needs to be fixed is the Lighting, especially the lighting inside of buildings. Shadows are almost completely blacked out inside of broken buildings that makes it almost impossible to see other players or actually see where you are trying to maneuver.
    Snow effects look great, especially when the snow is bouncing off the back of a tank, but it NEEDS to be toned down inside of buildings, does not look good when you are inside of a building but this could be because of the bad lighting inside of buildings.

    Panzerfaust: Something about this just bothers me, it needs a better reload animation. Should be slower and not seem as if you're pulling one out of thin air instantly. Not Immersive enough for me. Could be alone on this but i appreciate a good reload animation especially on launchers.

    Air Vehicles: Would like to see them tighten up the maneuverability on planes. I appreciate the more challenging Air to Ground with the limited spotting in the game. Pilots may now have to work together with ground units to mark areas for strafing runs instead of just coming in spraying down as many oblivious red markers. Felt very OverPowered in BF1. Not sure if they are bringing back the pilot class or not but maybe we will see certain "Perks" or a pilot arch type that can give them spotting abilities from the air.

    Speaking of perks and arch types, I really hope that some of these things start getting put into the game before the beta because they seem to be a big part of the game that should be in there before release. I don't want it to be like BF1 where they were ALL added too late into the game. Make sure each class has enough core arch types and perks that work, then slowly bring more in for each Tide of War.

    Will post more as it comes to me.





  • Imabaka70
    2432 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Two things I can speak on for sure. The lighting has been this way in most battlefield games. I wish it would change

    The panzerfaust if you didn’t know is true to the real counter part. They were one use and discard weapons They had no reload.
  • trip1ex
    4964 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    trip1ex wrote: »
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.

    Yeah I dont get how one can determine the feel of the game by watching a youtube of someone else playing.
  • von_Campenstein
    6571 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.

    Yeah I dont get how one can determine the feel of the game by watching a youtube of someone else playing.

    I do, it looks entirely too twitchy and sudden death to me.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.

    Yeah I dont get how one can determine the feel of the game by watching a youtube of someone else playing.

    I do, it looks entirely too twitchy and sudden death to me.

    I can watch a baseball game and say from the camera's angle the ball doesn't look like its going that fast. Completely different when you are actually behind the bat.
  • UMPhreak
    9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    well seeing that i have played Battlefield since Battlefield 2 on PC i feel like i have a pretty good understanding of how a battlefield game works. And I'm sure there could have been plenty that i missed, but to act like my opinion does not matter because I have not played the game yet is really just toxic, and not going to help this game become better by the time of beta and release.
    One thing i really hope that they change before beta is the recoil of these weapons. With the limited recoil and easy tap fire people are going to die extremely fast, keep the suppression to visual and add more first shot recoil. And this is coming from someone who actually likes the suppression system in BF1 because it forces people to take cover and can make gunfights last longer then the Call of Duty style of rushing into incoming fire just trying to out DPS someone.
  • von_Campenstein
    6571 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.

    Yeah I dont get how one can determine the feel of the game by watching a youtube of someone else playing.

    I do, it looks entirely too twitchy and sudden death to me.

    I can watch a baseball game and say from the camera's angle the ball doesn't look like its going that fast. Completely different when you are actually behind the bat.

    I don't watch baseball so that analogy is lost on me, I've watched players who played the alpha play BF1 and from their movement and how fast they're going down compared to in BF1 I made that assessment.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.

    Yeah I dont get how one can determine the feel of the game by watching a youtube of someone else playing.

    I do, it looks entirely too twitchy and sudden death to me.

    I can watch a baseball game and say from the camera's angle the ball doesn't look like its going that fast. Completely different when you are actually behind the bat.

    I don't watch baseball so that analogy is lost on me, I've watched players who played the alpha play BF1 and from their movement and how fast they're going down compared to in BF1 I made that assessment.

    Well to make it more direct....watching someone else play and playing it yourself will give you two completely different outcomes.
  • von_Campenstein
    6571 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.

    Yeah I dont get how one can determine the feel of the game by watching a youtube of someone else playing.

    I do, it looks entirely too twitchy and sudden death to me.

    I can watch a baseball game and say from the camera's angle the ball doesn't look like its going that fast. Completely different when you are actually behind the bat.

    I don't watch baseball so that analogy is lost on me, I've watched players who played the alpha play BF1 and from their movement and how fast they're going down compared to in BF1 I made that assessment.

    Well to make it more direct....watching someone else play and playing it yourself will give you two completely different outcomes.

    For you maybe, myself I can learn from watching.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.

    Yeah I dont get how one can determine the feel of the game by watching a youtube of someone else playing.

    I do, it looks entirely too twitchy and sudden death to me.

    I can watch a baseball game and say from the camera's angle the ball doesn't look like its going that fast. Completely different when you are actually behind the bat.

    I don't watch baseball so that analogy is lost on me, I've watched players who played the alpha play BF1 and from their movement and how fast they're going down compared to in BF1 I made that assessment.

    Well to make it more direct....watching someone else play and playing it yourself will give you two completely different outcomes.

    For you maybe, myself I can learn from watching.

    You wont learn everything.
  • trip1ex
    4964 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    You can learn something from watching. But big difference between watching and doing.

    The OP doesn't appreciate the difference between the two.

    It reminds me of the Dunning-Kruger effect graph. In this case, the OP has a stronger more all-knowing opinion on how the game plays then the people that played it.
  • MigueTK
    679 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    trip1ex wrote: »
    You can learn something from watching. But big difference between watching and doing.

    The OP doesn't appreciate the difference between the two.

    It reminds me of the Dunning-Kruger effect graph. In this case, the OP has a stronger more all-knowing opinion on how the game plays then the people that played it.

    Some things are pretty obvious to spot if you have an experienced critical eye like the TTK, movement speed and other things. Like I called how in your face animations will be to show off cosmetics during the danny on pc twitter leak before we saw the trailer, and I was completely correct.
  • warslag
    1594 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited July 2018
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.

    Yeah I dont get how one can determine the feel of the game by watching a youtube of someone else playing.

    I do, it looks entirely too twitchy and sudden death to me.

    I can watch a baseball game and say from the camera's angle the ball doesn't look like its going that fast. Completely different when you are actually behind the bat.

    Watching a real-life sport on a screen is completely different to playing a real-life sport.

    Watching someone on a screen playing a game that is only played on a screen is only different to playing the game in that you don't have control.

    It's not the same difference at all.

    UMPhreak wrote: »
    Let me start by saying that i have not personally played the Alpha, but i have watched hours of gameplay from Battlefield Streamers and Youtubers and am an experienced Battlefield Veteran player myself. There is a ton for me to be excited about in this game, first let me tell you why I feel the changes that were made with the "Attrition" system, are going to be the best for the future of this franchise.
    The biggest change coming with the "Attrition" system is Limited Ammo. Players now only spawn with around 2 magazines and get up to 3 from what i have seen, and i love this addition to the game for many reasons.

    1. Skill Gap: There are so many ways that Attrition widens the skill gap between Novice Players and Veteran Players. With the new changes made to gunplay, recoil, and suppression, TTK is very fast and not very challenging from what I've seen. With only visual suppression, players are going to be able to be much more aggressive in their gunfights. But with attrition that comes at a cost, which IMO balances out the easier gunplay. Players now have multiple decisions they have to make during the course of a single life. Which is what will define the skill gap between players and more importantly squads and teammates.

    "I can just see it now, Im down to my last magazine and kill two guys rushing into my bunker, and the third with my pistol. No ammo but i just killed an enemy with a shotgun. Grab the shotgun just in time before the next squad rushes in "SWIPED!!!" Dropped the entire enemy squad with a shotgun just in time for my teamates to reach me with some much needed ammo."
    The novice player would have never made that play they might have taken out the first 3, but never thought to check the ground for a weapon with ammo, as you can no longer take a fallen enemies entire kit only weapon.

    If you take 2 people who have played some FPS games, but neither have played BFV, then they are both novice BFV players regardless of whether they have played other Battlefield games.

    The difference between BFV and any other FPS isn't that much different than BFV compared to any other Battlefield. FPS games - being the same genre - are very similar, anyone would have to be a bit pedantic not to think so.

    If one of those 2 players turns out to be really good at BFV does that suddenly make him a veteran and the other player a novice? Of course not. One is a winner and the other a loser. These roles are reversed all the time.

    If a player has no FPS or even no gaming experience at all and plays BFV then he still might be better than the player who has played FPS games. Because FPS games aren't that difficult, anyway.

    If you then change Battlefield to cater to imaginary 'novice' players to make it easy for them against imaginary 'veteran' players then you run the risk of ruining Battlefield for the experienced players who are used to learning the complexities of a new Battlefield game.
    UMPhreak wrote: »
    2. Squad Play/Teamplay: It really puts an emphasis on working together as a team. Some of my favorite moments in Battlefield games come from working together as a team and will hopefully make people better Teammates, and Battlefield players in the long run. I also love what they did by adding in the immersion of grabbing ammo/meds from a player or Cache but that should not happen while a person is trying to aim down sights. (I would like it if they added in a proper tutorial with a run through for each class which could unlock a new character skin for incentive, This could show new players and even veterans some of the changes to the new building mechanic, Flare Guns, Squad Reviving, etc. After completing each tutorial a player gets a starter skin for the class that they finished the tutorial with. This will then introduce people to the newly added COMPANY customization options for their characters.) Just an idea for any Devs who might come across this.

    They have made it harder to work as a team by increasing the reliance on teammates. Players will naturally look for ways to avoid relying on other players.

    Even the players who are determined to work in synergy with their squad will eventually get bored with it.
    UMPhreak wrote: »
    3. Defensive Play. Having ammo and med caches are a great addition to the Objectives for defense. (Would like to see you be able to grab two extra mags instead of 1) Solo players may now have to take on more of a defensive role to be successful, but with the added points you get for defending objectives will still be able to make their way up the leaderboards. Holding down certain objectives will be very important to ensuring your team is fully stocked and prepared to push on to the next objective. (To counter the imbalance of Offense not having Caches in Grand Operations i would like to see the Building come into play with players able to build up their frontline with foxholes, Caches, Spawn Beacons etc. Also don't want to see Caches on huge chokepoints which would turn into grenade spam all over again.

    Well, this is exactly what I said in another thread about the new resupply and health pick-up system. There will be patches that will completely change the shape of the game. Not always the way you want it to be changed.

    To my mind defending in BF1 has been easier than attacking for many players. I often see teams not really even making a dent in the first sector in Operations, over their three Battalions.

    I think attacking and simply standing on capture points is where DICE could focus some attention. Bi-pods, mortars, behemoths, etc kept a lot of players from going to the objective.
    Post edited by warslag on
  • trip1ex
    4964 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 2018
    MigueTK wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    You can learn something from watching. But big difference between watching and doing.

    The OP doesn't appreciate the difference between the two.

    It reminds me of the Dunning-Kruger effect graph. In this case, the OP has a stronger more all-knowing opinion on how the game plays then the people that played it.

    Some things are pretty obvious to spot if you have an experienced critical eye like the TTK, movement speed and other things. Like I called how in your face animations will be to show off cosmetics during the danny on pc twitter leak before we saw the trailer, and I was completely correct.

    that's all guessing and speculation.

    And the point isn't that you can't glean info from watching. The point is you aren't in a position to really get a feel for it and to provide feedback on how it plays. You're basically basing your opinion off other people's opinions on what they did.

    Hearsay it is.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    warslag wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.

    Yeah I dont get how one can determine the feel of the game by watching a youtube of someone else playing.

    I do, it looks entirely too twitchy and sudden death to me.

    I can watch a baseball game and say from the camera's angle the ball doesn't look like its going that fast. Completely different when you are actually behind the bat.

    Watching a real-life sport on a screen is completely different to playing a real-life sport.

    Watching someone on a screen playing a game that is only played on a screen is only different to playing the game in that you don't have control.

    It's not the same difference at all.

    UMPhreak wrote: »
    Let me start by saying that i have not personally played the Alpha, but i have watched hours of gameplay from Battlefield Streamers and Youtubers and am an experienced Battlefield Veteran player myself. There is a ton for me to be excited about in this game, first let me tell you why I feel the changes that were made with the "Attrition" system, are going to be the best for the future of this franchise.
    The biggest change coming with the "Attrition" system is Limited Ammo. Players now only spawn with around 2 magazines and get up to 3 from what i have seen, and i love this addition to the game for many reasons.

    1. Skill Gap: There are so many ways that Attrition widens the skill gap between Novice Players and Veteran Players. With the new changes made to gunplay, recoil, and suppression, TTK is very fast and not very challenging from what I've seen. With only visual suppression, players are going to be able to be much more aggressive in their gunfights. But with attrition that comes at a cost, which IMO balances out the easier gunplay. Players now have multiple decisions they have to make during the course of a single life. Which is what will define the skill gap between players and more importantly squads and teammates.

    "I can just see it now, Im down to my last magazine and kill two guys rushing into my bunker, and the third with my pistol. No ammo but i just killed an enemy with a shotgun. Grab the shotgun just in time before the next squad rushes in "SWIPED!!!" Dropped the entire enemy squad with a shotgun just in time for my teamates to reach me with some much needed ammo."
    The novice player would have never made that play they might have taken out the first 3, but never thought to check the ground for a weapon with ammo, as you can no longer take a fallen enemies entire kit only weapon.

    If you take 2 people who have played some FPS games, but neither have played BFV, then they are both novice BFV players regardless of whether they have played other Battlefield games.

    The difference between BFV and any other FPS isn't that much different than BFV compared to any other Battlefield. FPS games - being the same genre - are very similar, anyone would have to be a bit pedantic not to think so.

    If one of those 2 players turns out to be really good at BFV does that suddenly make him a veteran and the other player a novice? Of course not. One is a winner and the other a loser. These roles are reversed all the time.

    If a player has no FPS or even no gaming experience at all and plays BFV then he still might be better than the player who has played FPS games. Because FPS games aren't that difficult, anyway.

    If you then change Battlefield to cater to imaginary 'novice' players to make it easy for them against imaginary 'veteran' players then you run the risk of ruining Battlefield for the experienced players who are used to learning the complexities of a new Battlefield game.
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    2. Squad Play/Teamplay: It really puts an emphasis on working together as a team. Some of my favorite moments in Battlefield games come from working together as a team and will hopefully make people better Teammates, and Battlefield players in the long run. I also love what they did by adding in the immersion of grabbing ammo/meds from a player or Cache but that should not happen while a person is trying to aim down sights. (I would like it if they added in a proper tutorial with a run through for each class which could unlock a new character skin for incentive, This could show new players and even veterans some of the changes to the new building mechanic, Flare Guns, Squad Reviving, etc. After completing each tutorial a player gets a starter skin for the class that they finished the tutorial with. This will then introduce people to the newly added COMPANY customization options for their characters.) Just an idea for any Devs who might come across this.

    They have made it harder to work as a team by increasing the reliance on teammates. Players will naturally look for ways to avoid relying on other players.

    Even the players who are determined to work in synergy with their squad will eventually get bored with it.
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    3. Defensive Play. Having ammo and med caches are a great addition to the Objectives for defense. (Would like to see you be able to grab two extra mags instead of 1) Solo players may now have to take on more of a defensive role to be successful, but with the added points you get for defending objectives will still be able to make their way up the leaderboards. Holding down certain objectives will be very important to ensuring your team is fully stocked and prepared to push on to the next objective. (To counter the imbalance of Offense not having Caches in Grand Operations i would like to see the Building come into play with players able to build up their frontline with foxholes, Caches, Spawn Beacons etc. Also don't want to see Caches on huge chokepoints which would turn into grenade spam all over again.

    Well, this is exactly what I said in another thread about the new resupply and health pick-up system. There will be patches that will completely change the shape of the game. Not always the way you want it to be changed.

    To my mind defending in BF1 has been easier than attacking for many players. I often see teams not really even making a dent in the first sector in Operations, over their three Battalions.

    I think attacking and simply standing on capture points is where DICE could focus some attention. Bi-pods, mortars, behemoths, etc kept a lot of players from going to the objective.

    I dont know why those other posts are quoted by me I didnt write them.

    But as for the comparisons on sports and video games is not that far off. In the end watching and actually playing are to completely different experiences and not transferable to everyone. Just because a youtuber can control recoil better than other doesn't imply that the guns are accurate....one must play themselves to see this.

    Just because a youtuber dies constantly by snipers doesn't mean sniping is easy...you need to see for yourself if different tactics are needed to overcome situations. In the end what you do and what you see are two completely different experiences.
  • warslag
    1594 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    warslag wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.

    Yeah I dont get how one can determine the feel of the game by watching a youtube of someone else playing.

    I do, it looks entirely too twitchy and sudden death to me.

    I can watch a baseball game and say from the camera's angle the ball doesn't look like its going that fast. Completely different when you are actually behind the bat.

    Watching a real-life sport on a screen is completely different to playing a real-life sport.

    Watching someone on a screen playing a game that is only played on a screen is only different to playing the game in that you don't have control.

    It's not the same difference at all.

    UMPhreak wrote: »
    Let me start by saying that i have not personally played the Alpha, but i have watched hours of gameplay from Battlefield Streamers and Youtubers and am an experienced Battlefield Veteran player myself. There is a ton for me to be excited about in this game, first let me tell you why I feel the changes that were made with the "Attrition" system, are going to be the best for the future of this franchise.
    The biggest change coming with the "Attrition" system is Limited Ammo. Players now only spawn with around 2 magazines and get up to 3 from what i have seen, and i love this addition to the game for many reasons.

    1. Skill Gap: There are so many ways that Attrition widens the skill gap between Novice Players and Veteran Players. With the new changes made to gunplay, recoil, and suppression, TTK is very fast and not very challenging from what I've seen. With only visual suppression, players are going to be able to be much more aggressive in their gunfights. But with attrition that comes at a cost, which IMO balances out the easier gunplay. Players now have multiple decisions they have to make during the course of a single life. Which is what will define the skill gap between players and more importantly squads and teammates.

    "I can just see it now, Im down to my last magazine and kill two guys rushing into my bunker, and the third with my pistol. No ammo but i just killed an enemy with a shotgun. Grab the shotgun just in time before the next squad rushes in "SWIPED!!!" Dropped the entire enemy squad with a shotgun just in time for my teamates to reach me with some much needed ammo."
    The novice player would have never made that play they might have taken out the first 3, but never thought to check the ground for a weapon with ammo, as you can no longer take a fallen enemies entire kit only weapon.

    If you take 2 people who have played some FPS games, but neither have played BFV, then they are both novice BFV players regardless of whether they have played other Battlefield games.

    The difference between BFV and any other FPS isn't that much different than BFV compared to any other Battlefield. FPS games - being the same genre - are very similar, anyone would have to be a bit pedantic not to think so.

    If one of those 2 players turns out to be really good at BFV does that suddenly make him a veteran and the other player a novice? Of course not. One is a winner and the other a loser. These roles are reversed all the time.

    If a player has no FPS or even no gaming experience at all and plays BFV then he still might be better than the player who has played FPS games. Because FPS games aren't that difficult, anyway.

    If you then change Battlefield to cater to imaginary 'novice' players to make it easy for them against imaginary 'veteran' players then you run the risk of ruining Battlefield for the experienced players who are used to learning the complexities of a new Battlefield game.
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    2. Squad Play/Teamplay: It really puts an emphasis on working together as a team. Some of my favorite moments in Battlefield games come from working together as a team and will hopefully make people better Teammates, and Battlefield players in the long run. I also love what they did by adding in the immersion of grabbing ammo/meds from a player or Cache but that should not happen while a person is trying to aim down sights. (I would like it if they added in a proper tutorial with a run through for each class which could unlock a new character skin for incentive, This could show new players and even veterans some of the changes to the new building mechanic, Flare Guns, Squad Reviving, etc. After completing each tutorial a player gets a starter skin for the class that they finished the tutorial with. This will then introduce people to the newly added COMPANY customization options for their characters.) Just an idea for any Devs who might come across this.

    They have made it harder to work as a team by increasing the reliance on teammates. Players will naturally look for ways to avoid relying on other players.

    Even the players who are determined to work in synergy with their squad will eventually get bored with it.
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    3. Defensive Play. Having ammo and med caches are a great addition to the Objectives for defense. (Would like to see you be able to grab two extra mags instead of 1) Solo players may now have to take on more of a defensive role to be successful, but with the added points you get for defending objectives will still be able to make their way up the leaderboards. Holding down certain objectives will be very important to ensuring your team is fully stocked and prepared to push on to the next objective. (To counter the imbalance of Offense not having Caches in Grand Operations i would like to see the Building come into play with players able to build up their frontline with foxholes, Caches, Spawn Beacons etc. Also don't want to see Caches on huge chokepoints which would turn into grenade spam all over again.

    Well, this is exactly what I said in another thread about the new resupply and health pick-up system. There will be patches that will completely change the shape of the game. Not always the way you want it to be changed.

    To my mind defending in BF1 has been easier than attacking for many players. I often see teams not really even making a dent in the first sector in Operations, over their three Battalions.

    I think attacking and simply standing on capture points is where DICE could focus some attention. Bi-pods, mortars, behemoths, etc kept a lot of players from going to the objective.

    I dont know why those other posts are quoted by me I didnt write them.

    But as for the comparisons on sports and video games is not that far off. In the end watching and actually playing are to completely different experiences and not transferable to everyone. Just because a youtuber can control recoil better than other doesn't imply that the guns are accurate....one must play themselves to see this.

    Just because a youtuber dies constantly by snipers doesn't mean sniping is easy...you need to see for yourself if different tactics are needed to overcome situations. In the end what you do and what you see are two completely different experiences.

    I've corrected those quotes.

    Anyway, comparing a virtual game to a real-life sport, which is the example you gave, is different from comparing a spectated virtual game and playing a virtual game - this is much more relative.

    It is reasonable for people to make their minds up from watching YouTubes about whether they want to buy a particular game. Especially FPS games which are all pretty similar.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    warslag wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    warslag wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    2nd hand feedback. I'm going to tell you about the what's wrong with the movie based on what my Mom told me it was like.

    Yeah I dont get how one can determine the feel of the game by watching a youtube of someone else playing.

    I do, it looks entirely too twitchy and sudden death to me.

    I can watch a baseball game and say from the camera's angle the ball doesn't look like its going that fast. Completely different when you are actually behind the bat.

    Watching a real-life sport on a screen is completely different to playing a real-life sport.

    Watching someone on a screen playing a game that is only played on a screen is only different to playing the game in that you don't have control.

    It's not the same difference at all.

    UMPhreak wrote: »
    Let me start by saying that i have not personally played the Alpha, but i have watched hours of gameplay from Battlefield Streamers and Youtubers and am an experienced Battlefield Veteran player myself. There is a ton for me to be excited about in this game, first let me tell you why I feel the changes that were made with the "Attrition" system, are going to be the best for the future of this franchise.
    The biggest change coming with the "Attrition" system is Limited Ammo. Players now only spawn with around 2 magazines and get up to 3 from what i have seen, and i love this addition to the game for many reasons.

    1. Skill Gap: There are so many ways that Attrition widens the skill gap between Novice Players and Veteran Players. With the new changes made to gunplay, recoil, and suppression, TTK is very fast and not very challenging from what I've seen. With only visual suppression, players are going to be able to be much more aggressive in their gunfights. But with attrition that comes at a cost, which IMO balances out the easier gunplay. Players now have multiple decisions they have to make during the course of a single life. Which is what will define the skill gap between players and more importantly squads and teammates.

    "I can just see it now, Im down to my last magazine and kill two guys rushing into my bunker, and the third with my pistol. No ammo but i just killed an enemy with a shotgun. Grab the shotgun just in time before the next squad rushes in "SWIPED!!!" Dropped the entire enemy squad with a shotgun just in time for my teamates to reach me with some much needed ammo."
    The novice player would have never made that play they might have taken out the first 3, but never thought to check the ground for a weapon with ammo, as you can no longer take a fallen enemies entire kit only weapon.

    If you take 2 people who have played some FPS games, but neither have played BFV, then they are both novice BFV players regardless of whether they have played other Battlefield games.

    The difference between BFV and any other FPS isn't that much different than BFV compared to any other Battlefield. FPS games - being the same genre - are very similar, anyone would have to be a bit pedantic not to think so.

    If one of those 2 players turns out to be really good at BFV does that suddenly make him a veteran and the other player a novice? Of course not. One is a winner and the other a loser. These roles are reversed all the time.

    If a player has no FPS or even no gaming experience at all and plays BFV then he still might be better than the player who has played FPS games. Because FPS games aren't that difficult, anyway.

    If you then change Battlefield to cater to imaginary 'novice' players to make it easy for them against imaginary 'veteran' players then you run the risk of ruining Battlefield for the experienced players who are used to learning the complexities of a new Battlefield game.
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    2. Squad Play/Teamplay: It really puts an emphasis on working together as a team. Some of my favorite moments in Battlefield games come from working together as a team and will hopefully make people better Teammates, and Battlefield players in the long run. I also love what they did by adding in the immersion of grabbing ammo/meds from a player or Cache but that should not happen while a person is trying to aim down sights. (I would like it if they added in a proper tutorial with a run through for each class which could unlock a new character skin for incentive, This could show new players and even veterans some of the changes to the new building mechanic, Flare Guns, Squad Reviving, etc. After completing each tutorial a player gets a starter skin for the class that they finished the tutorial with. This will then introduce people to the newly added COMPANY customization options for their characters.) Just an idea for any Devs who might come across this.

    They have made it harder to work as a team by increasing the reliance on teammates. Players will naturally look for ways to avoid relying on other players.

    Even the players who are determined to work in synergy with their squad will eventually get bored with it.
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    3. Defensive Play. Having ammo and med caches are a great addition to the Objectives for defense. (Would like to see you be able to grab two extra mags instead of 1) Solo players may now have to take on more of a defensive role to be successful, but with the added points you get for defending objectives will still be able to make their way up the leaderboards. Holding down certain objectives will be very important to ensuring your team is fully stocked and prepared to push on to the next objective. (To counter the imbalance of Offense not having Caches in Grand Operations i would like to see the Building come into play with players able to build up their frontline with foxholes, Caches, Spawn Beacons etc. Also don't want to see Caches on huge chokepoints which would turn into grenade spam all over again.

    Well, this is exactly what I said in another thread about the new resupply and health pick-up system. There will be patches that will completely change the shape of the game. Not always the way you want it to be changed.

    To my mind defending in BF1 has been easier than attacking for many players. I often see teams not really even making a dent in the first sector in Operations, over their three Battalions.

    I think attacking and simply standing on capture points is where DICE could focus some attention. Bi-pods, mortars, behemoths, etc kept a lot of players from going to the objective.

    I dont know why those other posts are quoted by me I didnt write them.

    But as for the comparisons on sports and video games is not that far off. In the end watching and actually playing are to completely different experiences and not transferable to everyone. Just because a youtuber can control recoil better than other doesn't imply that the guns are accurate....one must play themselves to see this.

    Just because a youtuber dies constantly by snipers doesn't mean sniping is easy...you need to see for yourself if different tactics are needed to overcome situations. In the end what you do and what you see are two completely different experiences.

    I've corrected those quotes.

    Anyway, comparing a virtual game to a real-life sport, which is the example you gave, is different from comparing a spectated virtual game and playing a virtual game - this is much more relative.

    It is reasonable for people to make their minds up from watching YouTubes about whether they want to buy a particular game. Especially FPS games which are all pretty similar.

    Thanks for correcting.

    As for the second point we have different opinions so we will just have to agree to disagree.
  • ProAssassin2003
    3535 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    When all us "Battlefield Veterans" collide in matches the faster TTK mess if they keep it will be front and center. And be prepared for dynamite,mines and campers just sitting at ammo stations trolling everyone in sight.
  • MigueTK
    679 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    trip1ex wrote: »
    MigueTK wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    You can learn something from watching. But big difference between watching and doing.

    The OP doesn't appreciate the difference between the two.

    It reminds me of the Dunning-Kruger effect graph. In this case, the OP has a stronger more all-knowing opinion on how the game plays then the people that played it.

    Some things are pretty obvious to spot if you have an experienced critical eye like the TTK, movement speed and other things. Like I called how in your face animations will be to show off cosmetics during the danny on pc twitter leak before we saw the trailer, and I was completely correct.

    that's all guessing and speculation.

    And the point isn't that you can't glean info from watching. The point is you aren't in a position to really get a feel for it and to provide feedback on how it plays. You're basically basing your opinion off other people's opinions on what they did.

    Hearsay it is.

    Well what I saw on youtube for the first days of gameplay for EA play I used to test hands on, I went during the second day. I mostly paid attention to the UI and character movement speed and a few animations. Even though I did have hands on experience, I used what I watched to help me focus so not completely useless.
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