Battlefield 1 is a huge LMG fest

2

Comments

  • x_Undaunted_x
    3599 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    robmcewen wrote: »
    Im done with whole battlefield.
    This makes about the 200th time you've quit because of LMG's...

    If the game's so casual, why are you having such a difficult time?

    That what I want to know.

    Saying the game is casual because noobs can kill him with out effort would surely mean that him, as a skilled player should easily avoided getting killed by the noobs, it must be some sort of paradox.

    And if LMG's are OP (like he's claimed so many times in previous posts) then why isn't his team obliterating their opponent?

    It's either a paradox or today's opposite day.
  • HuwJarz
    3469 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    robmcewen wrote: »
    Im done with whole battlefield.
    This makes about the 200th time you've quit because of LMG's...

    If the game's so casual, why are you having such a difficult time?

    That what I want to know.

    Saying the game is casual because noobs can kill him with out effort would surely mean that him, as a skilled player should easily avoided getting killed by the noobs, it must be some sort of paradox.

    Beautiful use of the word paradox. An often misused word. But definitely not in this context.......
  • DingoKillr
    2664 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Stats still say you're wrong

    https://battlefieldtracker.com/bf1/insights

    can we change the timeline? I'd like to see how things changed over the last year - pre and post ttk 2.0. I didn't see an option to do that.

    I found it interesting that self loading rifles are getting the most kills. Was that always the case?

    Also would love if the stats could be broken up per platform as in console vs pc. I just have a feeling that the experience on pc is quite different than on console as to what classes/weapons are most effective.

    From memory up until TTK2.0 SMG was the most played with SLR, Rifle and then LMG.
    After TTK it stayed that way for a few months. Rifles and SLR traded spots a few times.

    Not sure when but SLR moved to the top.

  • bleachee
    939 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    TTK 2.0 succeeding in making SLRs and SMGs dominate the game; while rifles and LMGs, already less utilized, fell to even lower levels. If you want to PTFO, LMGs are a poor choice now. That's why so many LMG users resort to bipodded camping now. TTK 2.0 squeezed viable weapons variety out of the game, and appears to have driven off a significant portion of players as well. It was a terrible decision.
  • theONEFORCE
    2599 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    bleachee wrote: »
    TTK 2.0 succeeding in making SLRs and SMGs dominate the game; while rifles and LMGs, already less utilized, fell to even lower levels. If you want to PTFO, LMGs are a poor choice now. That's why so many LMG users resort to bipodded camping now. TTK 2.0 squeezed viable weapons variety out of the game, and appears to have driven off a significant portion of players as well. It was a terrible decision.

    Yup, can't even consider PTFO with the Bar, Madsen, Chauchat, Parabellum, MG15, lmg 08. Don't even try it, they are terrible for run and gun. Can't even get kills. Seriously, don't do it....
  • Sixclicks
    3294 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited August 9
    There definitely seems to be a lot more support players lately. But I don't mind that much. Most of them go prone and become easy headshot bait for my bolt action rifle.

    Support's a very strong all around class now. You've got great performance up close with weapons like the Burton LMR, BAR, or Chauchat, and great performance at longer ranges while using the bipod or LMGs with less kick. I personally find the LMG 08/18 to be my best all around LMG, but I always use the Burton now for super aggressive play. The Burton LMR is like a much more effective Automatico for me.
    bleachee wrote: »
    TTK 2.0 succeeding in making SLRs and SMGs dominate the game; while rifles and LMGs, already less utilized, fell to even lower levels. If you want to PTFO, LMGs are a poor choice now. That's why so many LMG users resort to bipodded camping now. TTK 2.0 squeezed viable weapons variety out of the game, and appears to have driven off a significant portion of players as well. It was a terrible decision.

    Yup, can't even consider PTFO with the Bar, Madsen, Chauchat, Parabellum, MG15, lmg 08. Don't even try it, they are terrible for run and gun. Can't even get kills. Seriously, don't do it....

    I hope that's sarcasm lol.
  • Kirk40k
    2104 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    LMGs are most effective from a supported/prone position with a bipod. It’s the nature of the beast and the way of the Support player.

    See enemy, dive into the dirt, ADS, acquire target and let the bullets rain down range, that’s how it goes.

    I get gunned down in CQC all the time if I’m not going up against another Support player with a similar ROF and damage LMG. I’m pushing up daisies in a flash against someone with a pistol vs my LMG pumping rounds into them, but I’m not here complaining about because that’s how the game is balanced.
  • theONEFORCE
    2599 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    There definitely seems to be a lot more support players lately. But I don't mind that much. Most of them go prone and become easy headshot bait for my bolt action rifle.

    Support's a very strong all around class now. You've got great performance up close with weapons like the Burton LMR, BAR, or Chauchat, and great performance at longer ranges while using the bipod or LMGs with less kick. I personally find the LMG 08/18 to be my best all around LMG, but I always use the Burton now for super aggressive play. The Burton LMR is like a much more effective Automatico for me.
    bleachee wrote: »
    TTK 2.0 succeeding in making SLRs and SMGs dominate the game; while rifles and LMGs, already less utilized, fell to even lower levels. If you want to PTFO, LMGs are a poor choice now. That's why so many LMG users resort to bipodded camping now. TTK 2.0 squeezed viable weapons variety out of the game, and appears to have driven off a significant portion of players as well. It was a terrible decision.

    Yup, can't even consider PTFO with the Bar, Madsen, Chauchat, Parabellum, MG15, lmg 08. Don't even try it, they are terrible for run and gun. Can't even get kills. Seriously, don't do it....

    I hope that's sarcasm lol.

    Yes, lots of it.
  • StretchyBlackMan
    51 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    It's an addiction. I'll be honest, I have that addiction as well, but I actually praise this game in many ways. I think it's fun.

    We can complain all we want. Hate on everything, criticize features, get angry at aircraft and tanks and scouts and supports, balance or just, well, anything.

    And yet we still come back for more. That's fairly impressive for a game to do.
  • lessthanjake123
    118 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    You know Support is the least played class in the game by a good margin, right?

    In any event, having come back to the game about a month ago after having stopped well before the TTK patch, I can pretty confidently say I think LMGs are substantially worse than they used to be. I used to be a big Support player. LMGs were definitely my best guns. But now they are nowhere close to my best. I wouldn’t say they’re unviable, as I’ve had some great games as Support. However, I’m nowhere near as effective with them now as I used to be. Honestly, I find LMGs worse at close, medium, and long range. The only situations they’re better in now are medium range situations where I’m stationary and camping in ADS. Otherwise, most LMGs are not even close to what they used to be.

    Close Quarters

    Before the TTK patch, LMGs could actually win close quarters fights a good percent of the time. They weren’t favored against Assault players, but they were comparable to most Medic weapons in CQB, and you could win against Assault players with just a bit of extra luck or skill. Now, most Support weapons are utterly unviable in close quarters. The extra ADS time is crippling in close quarters, and what’s perhaps more crippling is the fact that if you jump the gun and start shooting before you’re fully ADSed, you will have incredibly large spread that will make you miss unless the enemy is actually right next to you. This forces you to wait the full ADS time (and realistically, probably a moment longer just to be sure). You could try not to ADS in close range, but unless you have a trench variant or maybe a BAR or Chauchat, your hip spread is much worse than Assaults or Medics, so you’ll lose trying to do that too. Because of all this, LMGs can no longer contest Assault players at close range at all. They lose handily to Medics too. Heck, a Scout can take out a pistol and comfortably win in close range against an LMG. You’re just not viable in close range with LMGs, unless you’re using one of a few that are actually designed to be good at it (trench variants, the Burton, etc.)

    Medium Range

    LMGs are also quite a bit worse at medium range if you’re moving around and not sitting stationary in ADS waiting for someone to come by. This is mainly because that extra ADS time is really going to come into play again. By itself, that increase basically negates virtually the entire TTK advantage from having 1 fewer bullet to kill. Take the MG15 for example. At a fire rate of 500 rounds per minute, it fires a shot every 0.12 seconds. So lowering the bullets to kill by 1 essentially takes away 0.12 seconds off the TTK. But the ADS time was increased by 0.10 seconds. So you’re actually only getting a theoretical 0.02 second TTK benefit. Even that is misleading, though, because with the massive penalty for shooting before fully ADSed, you realistically need to give it at least a little leeway so you’re sure you’re fully ADSed. So you’d probably wait at least 0.12 seconds extra, probably more. And that’s assuming you didn’t shoot while ADSing before the TTK patch, which was perfectly effective back then. You can’t do that now if you want to hit anything. So basically you used to be able to shoot immediately while ADSing, and now you must wait at least 0.3 or 0.4 seconds depending on the variant. That is a huge difference. Add to that the fact that many LMGs were given higher vertical recoil, so they’re more difficult to control in these medium range scenarios. Then compound that with the fact that Medic weapons are substantially better at medium range than they used to be, due to the lower spread increase and later damage drop-off. The result is that a non-stationary LMG-user gets completely wrecked at medium range now by medics, has a harder time killing people before they can get to safety, and runs a way bigger risk than before of getting two-shot by a Scout before killing the Scout.

    Long Range

    Finally, IMO you’re also worse at long range with many LMGs than you were before the TTK patch. LMGs contest long range by using a bipod. The TTK patch did take away the LMGs spread increase when bipodded. And obviously it lowered the bullets to kill. You’d think that’d make them way better at long range. But the problem is that bipods no longer mitigate horizontal spread nearly so much (and some LMGs, such as the Lewis Gun, even got higher base horizontal recoil on top of that). Simply put, at very long ranges, most LMGs bounce around too much while bipodded to actually function as the long-range laser beams that they previously were. You may have taken more shots to kill before, but when every one of your shots used to land and now they don’t, you can easily still be worse off. Yes, there are exceptions with LMGs that have very low base horizontal recoil (such as the Benet-Mercie Telescopic, for instance). Those guns can still laser beam at long range and now have a faster TTK when they do that. Meanwhile, some LMGs went from a 7-shot kill at long range all the way down to a 5-shot kill (for example, the Lewis, Huot, and Perino). Those guns are probably better now at long range since the TTK is so dramatically lower, and they also don’t have super high horizontal recoil. But other LMGs are definitely worse off at very long range. I used to be able to contest scouts with the MG15, but I can’t really do it anymore, because the horizontal spread on the bipod makes me miss shots.
  • StretchyBlackMan
    51 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    I didn't usually play Support. Was always a medic main with the SLRs.

    Then I learned the sheer stopping power of the CSRG "Chauchat".

    I also ended up watching Forgotten Weapons' episode on the Chauchat and how it wasn't all that bad. Just fell in love with the thing.

    It's my best LMG with 15 service stars, and I use it to both run-n-gun and hold down flags. 20 rounds of terrifying 8mm Lebel.
  • Chillmatik_86
    2299 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    It's not the game, it's how people play it....

    Support is my main class, however, the only time i go prone is for gasmasks or any other trolling activities. (Come to think of it, that does happen a lot....)

    Almost 40☆'s on Limpets, the one and only reason to play Support really (any Rambo knows that)
    The only thing that keeps me from getting it is me trying to get my 1000th Syringe kill (according to some, i have issues.....)

  • RossP317
    77 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    robmcewen wrote: »
    and I would say that well over a 3rd (if not more) of my LMG kills are on the move. Which is probably the same experience for most console player.

    Yup. I main Support on PS4 and, aside from codex and unlock tasks, 95% of my kills are BAR and now Hout. I've started to use LMG 08/18 if German defence on River Somme but even then you tend to get spotted and going prone often leads to a quick death.
  • Khronikos
    1318 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    HuwJarz wrote: »
    Don't forget to shut the door on your way out.......If you are done, you are done. Was nice meeting you.

    On a more serious note, I actually agree. There are far too many people on their bellies with LMG's since TTK2.0.

    TTK2.0 and the introduction of the Ilya Muromets bomber have been the two worst design decisions of the entire game lifecycle for me. Rage inducing at times.

    TTK2 made it so when I shoot someone with an Av Optical 150m away I can get them fairly easily with one burst if they are injured. It might be more realistic, but holy cow it has totally changed the gameplay. I have learned quite easily to adapt, and honestly I do even better now unless I play with weapons I don't know how to play with.

    As for balance what a load of crap. Guns like the Av Optical are way too easy to use now for medics, and some of the others are even better. Nevermind LMG Rambos on their bellies and Assault dead before you see me **** running everywhere with any gun now.

    Honestly, it was better before, and it would have been great if they had made like 30% of the changes they made to TTK2.

    As for the bomber well whatever. It sucks balls, but mostly I can avoid it.
  • WetFishDB
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Stats still say you're wrong

    https://battlefieldtracker.com/bf1/insights

    can we change the timeline? I'd like to see how things changed over the last year - pre and post ttk 2.0. I didn't see an option to do that.

    I found it interesting that self loading rifles are getting the most kills. Was that always the case?

    Also would love if the stats could be broken up per platform as in console vs pc. I just have a feeling that the experience on pc is quite different than on console as to what classes/weapons are most effective.


    I don't think you can. On some you can add a parameter at the end, e.g. "?days=14" but it doesn't work on the insights overview.

    That said, I'm pretty sure SLR's and SMG's have been the most kills for a looooooong time, if not always. Medic is just such a powerful class, especially in infantry only maps/modes that it's bound to get more use/kills.

    Seeing the PC/Console split sure would be interesting, although not sure it's possible from that website - wish it was.
  • WetFishDB
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Stats still say you're wrong

    https://battlefieldtracker.com/bf1/insights

    can we change the timeline? I'd like to see how things changed over the last year - pre and post ttk 2.0. I didn't see an option to do that.

    I found it interesting that self loading rifles are getting the most kills. Was that always the case?

    Also would love if the stats could be broken up per platform as in console vs pc. I just have a feeling that the experience on pc is quite different than on console as to what classes/weapons are most effective.


    Not sure mate although I agree, that would be interesting.

    I did notice the overall population is now at 74K compared to 136k about when ttk 2.0 hit. It doesn't seem like ttk 2.0 did anything for continued interest in the game.

    It didn't seem to do make any real difference to population. My guess is those that like it were already playing. Those that don't, like me, still get enough enjoyment from the game to carry on. Especially with SWBF2 having an utterly disastrous launch (I was really looking forward to it).

    Looking at it, the trend has been a slow and relatively steady decline over the last 12 months. https://battlefieldtracker.com/bf1/insights/population/?days=360
  • OrionPherrit
    298 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited August 10
    I usually do fine with the Auto 8 Extended (3 stars) on XB1. Just gotta run to the town or CQB maze of the current map.

    When I’m Support, I get my buns handed to me often enough that I don’t consider it OP. Even after TTK 2.0, I still prefer to run & gun — not my style to camp prone. I don’t like to lie down on the job. :p I have almost 20 stars on the Parabellum Lite, but it’s rubbish at long ranges.

    Call me sadistic, but I love to sneak behind camping snipers & SAW operators and give them the point of my dagger. Only yesterday, I sliced open 3 of them like Jack the Ripper… >:)
  • RossP317
    77 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member

    Call me sadistic, but I love to sneak behind camping snipers & SAW operators and give them the point of my dagger. Only yesterday, I sliced open 3 of them like Jack the Ripper… >:)

    Gutting unaware snipers remains one of the unmitigated joys of BF1.

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