is xim cheating?

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idk1233211
632 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
edited September 2018
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You told us its not cheating but didn't tell us why it is not cheating.

Because it is not rocket science to know a mouse is better than a controller in every aspect of fps games.

It has also improved a lot since the xim4 model, now called xim apex.


I think it is cheating because I gave some reasons and that also not everybody can use one as their set up might not allow for a mouse and keyboard. Probably a high percentage actually, as most just sit on their sofa and play.
















Comments

  • Kirk40k
    2363 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I don’t see why anyone would use a mouse and keyboard while playing on a console. I like to kick back in the recliner and play on a huge TV. How am I going to use a m/k setup like that? On some kind of TV tray?

    Then if I hook the console to a smaller TV and sit at a desk and play, why am I just not placing on a PC then?
  • -Antares65z
    1617 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Kirk40k wrote: »
    I don’t see why anyone would use a mouse and keyboard while playing on a console. I like to kick back in the recliner and play on a huge TV. How am I going to use a m/k setup like that? On some kind of TV tray?

    I've been playing too long on PC to want to start all over by learning how to play with a controller. At my age, I would be an XIM candidate. I'm going to pick up a PS4 soon and will buy one of these XIM things. Why is it considered cheating? I honestly don't know. Just because somebody uses a joystick on their PC to fly doesn't mean I think they're cheating.

  • idk1233211
    632 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2018
    Kirk40k wrote: »
    I don’t see why anyone would use a mouse and keyboard while playing on a console. I like to kick back in the recliner and play on a huge TV. How am I going to use a m/k setup like that? On some kind of TV tray?

    I've been playing too long on PC to want to start all over by learning how to play with a controller. At my age, I would be an XIM candidate. I'm going to pick up a PS4 soon and will buy one of these XIM things. Why is it considered cheating? I honestly don't know. Just because somebody uses a joystick on their PC to fly doesn't mean I think they're cheating.
    If somebody is using a joystick to fly on a pc, no its not cheating, because everybody can easily use one as they are already sat at a pc, and using a joystick is the most preferable way to get the best experience out of a flying game., you just simply wouldn't want to use a mouse and keyboard all though probably can still be just as effective, as I have seen on bf4 players using mouse and keyboard do very well way better than ps4 controllers on flying jets.

    The Question you have to ask yourselve is everybody sat at a pc desk to play their xbox? or is the majority sat on a sofa playing with the controller?

    Using a joystick in a fps game you just wouldn't do unless everybody was using the same joystick as well. Otherwise you would just get slaughtered in gun fights because joystick is a much slower aim compared to mouse.



    Controllers are acceleration based. There is a dead zone, and then as the joystick moves farther from the deadzone, the speed of motion changes.
    Mice are more of a 1:1 motion vs reaction. Your moving the mouse has a direct relation to the movement on the screen.
    With a controller however, the Joystick can be stationary but at an angle, and that angle will result in motion on screen. It's confusing to me that the control device can be unmoving while there is turning motion happening on the screen.








  • -Antares65z
    1617 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    The Question you have to ask your self is everybody sat at a pc desk to play their xbox? or is the majority sat on a sofa playing with the controller?

    If people want to sit on their couch and play, that's their choice. If XIM is considered cheating, then so is voice coms. The vast majority of players on any given server is not on voice coms, and thus are at a disadvantage to those who are using coms. It's a players choice to not use XIM and sit their **** on the couch with a controller, just like it's a players choice to not use coms. I would be willing to bet that most using XIM are doing so because they lack the skill to compete using a controller. Just as I would.

  • idk1233211
    632 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2018
    The Question you have to ask your self is everybody sat at a pc desk to play their xbox? or is the majority sat on a sofa playing with the controller?

    If people want to sit on their couch and play, that's their choice. If XIM is considered cheating, then so is voice coms. The vast majority of players on any given server is not on voice coms, and thus are at a disadvantage to those who are using coms. It's a players choice to not use XIM and sit their **** on the couch with a controller, just like it's a players choice to not use coms. I would be willing to bet that most using XIM are doing so because they lack the skill to compete using a controller. Just as I would.



    People bought the console as a way to relax and play on big tv screens, which is what the console is made for.

    A headset with a mic is plug and play and comes with every gaming console. So I don't see this as cheating. As the option is there for everybody, unless they are mic shy. They can still use in game coms.


    The console hardware is all adjusted for big fat tv screens. It has been this way for years.



    we have only just started to get updates on the xbox to make gaming monitors work nicely, but this is bad for millions people who just game on their couch sofa. , because it means players who use gaming monitors get advantages like 1-5ms input lag plus probably use xim 4 as well, compared to the average joe with 100-200ms input lag and using a controller.

    But I don't want to stop you from using a mouse its up to you if you want to use one, I just feel its morally wrong.

    A lot of us came away from pc because of cheaters using private wallhacks back in the day of 2000-2008?

    now we come somewhere where there aren't any of them hacks and there always got to be someone wanting to get an advantage over others, and some company wanting to push their products to ruin the game for others.. I understand there are mod menus but I have only witnessed that in the 360 days, never in the ps4/xbox one days.



  • idk1233211
    632 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2018
    The Question you have to ask your self is everybody sat at a pc desk to play their xbox? or is the majority sat on a sofa playing with the controller?

    If people want to sit on their couch and play, that's their choice. If XIM is considered cheating, then so is voice coms. The vast majority of players on any given server is not on voice coms, and thus are at a disadvantage to those who are using coms. It's a players choice to not use XIM and sit their **** on the couch with a controller, just like it's a players choice to not use coms. I would be willing to bet that most using XIM are doing so because they lack the skill to compete using a controller. Just as I would.

    Every console comes with a mic and is plug and play, and if they are shy of using their mic then they can probably use some in game comms like enemy spotting or asking for medic? ect.. So I don't see this as cheating at all. It sounds like you are desperate to try and have some kind of argument here to justify why using a mouse on a console is not cheating.


    You need to understand consoles are designed for tvs not monitors, and people bought the console because its cheaper than buying a pc and they can relax on the sofa while playing on their 55inch tv? Which has been like this for many many years, and many people like the idea of being on their sofa playing games, this is how the consoles are also marketed for many years.


    Then we have this xim4 company and people starting to slowly turn the xbox into a semi pc thing.... Which is not acceptable it has been so many years of people using sofas and big tvs to play their games on.

    We have only recently got updates for monitors to work nicely with the xbox, unfortunaly this is bad news for millions who just chill on their sofa with a controller in their hands, as monitors have 1-5ms input lag, where as tvs go anywhere from 20-200ms input lag.
  • UglyNoah
    1236 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    It’s not cheating but it’s damn immoral (personal opinion)

    I’ve had my fights on here lol I’m done doing that
  • idk1233211
    632 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    UglyNoah wrote: »
    It’s not cheating but it’s damn immoral (personal opinion)

    I’ve had my fights on here lol I’m done doing that

    Hows it not cheating?
  • UglyNoah
    1236 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    It has been endorsed (at least by Sony) and even marketed.. I’d say that makes it not cheating lol. Don’t get me wrong I’m firmly against
  • spynylcracka
    409 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    This is hilarious we get the console players saying mouse and keyboard is cheating and PC players think using a controller with aim assist is cheating. The thing is that if Sony endorses XIM why do they not have native mouse and keyboard support or is XIM giving Sony a % of the profits? The whole point of playing on console is that everyone uses the same hardware and that makes things fair.
  • UglyNoah
    1236 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    It’s been on sony.com I’m sure they have lol, that or sony made they’re own
  • -Antares65z
    1617 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2018
    I guess I don't understand why there is an advantage using a keyboard/mouse over a controller. I've been a PC gamer since the mid 90's. I tried playing CS on a console many years ago but found the controller to cumbersome to master.
  • spynylcracka
    409 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I guess I don't understand why there is an advantage using a keyboard/mouse over a controller. I've been a PC gamer since the mid 90's. I tried playing CS on a console many years ago but found the controller to cumbersome to master.

    That is where XIM comes in, it lets play like you do on PC. There is no way a clunky controller can compete with a mouse and keyboard player. I know this for a fact because I played for years on console and when I switched to PC I tried a controller and got stomped. I had to use a mouse and keyboard just to have a chance.
  • Forkbeard84
    1560 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I guess I don't understand why there is an advantage using a keyboard/mouse over a controller. I've been a PC gamer since the mid 90's. I tried playing CS on a console many years ago but found the controller to cumbersome to master.

    Think of it this way. With a controller joystick, all you use are your thumbs making small movements. But with a mouse you use your entire hand, wrist and part of your arm and have a much larger movement range. Because of the much larger movement range, you have finer and more accurate control over aiming when using a mouse.
  • ElliotLH
    7827 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Using one isn't cheating as they are allowed by Sony and Microsoft, and presumably EA too in this case. Microsoft are even planning on providing native mouse and keyboard support (with split lobbies I might add) so soon all users will have access to that if they choose.

    While people using and XIM or similar are not cheating you are of course welcome to view them as unsporting or unfair (you could argue the same for the Elite controller too to some degree). Personally I don't care if people use them as unless they have some skill too then there's only so much a K&M is going to do for them. I also think it is incredibly hard to tell for certain if someone is using one of these adapters or not and could just have their sensitivities ramped up.
  • Oskool_007
    557 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited September 2018
    Kirk40k wrote: »
    I don’t see why anyone would use a mouse and keyboard while playing on a console. I like to kick back in the recliner and play on a huge TV. How am I going to use a m/k setup like that? On some kind of TV tray?

    Then if I hook the console to a smaller TV and sit at a desk and play, why am I just not placing on a PC then?

    I play BF1 on PC sitting in a La-Z-Boy recliner with mouse and keyboard. Keyboard sits on my lap and mouse on a hard aluminum mouse pad on the right arm rest. It's very comfortable compared to sitting at a desk and more ergonomic. I game on a 55" TV.

    There's also the COUCHMASTER CYCON for those on couches. It looks very comfortable and ergonomic with arm rests on both sides.

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    I can't stress how important ergonomics is. :) Your wrists and elbows need to be fully supported.

    Hopefully next gen consoles have native mouse and keyboard support. I'd quit PC gaming and switch to console gaming, because there's too many cheaters on PC using wallhacks and aimbots.

    What Fortnite is doing where they separate players based on the input device will probably be how things end up. I hate anything that splits up the player base, but I see no way around it.

    Fortnite matchmaking update will pair keyboard-and-mouse players with other KBM users

    I tried XIM APEX on Xbox X, but it's not as fast or accurate as native PC mouse. It's close, but XIM has more input lag due to V-sync and triple buffering being enable on console games. Plus you can only swipe the mouse so fast before it stops tracking with XIM. I ended up returning them both for a refund, because PC gaming feels much better compared to XIM on console.

    Do I consider XIM cheating? Maybe, but only if using racing wheels in Need for Speed, SCUF controllers with back paddles, or PS4 Pro's with higher framerates is also considered cheating.
  • WetFishDB
    1974 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member

    You told us its not cheating but didn't tell us why it is not cheating.

    Because it is not rocket science to know a mouse is better than a controller in every aspect of fps games.

    It has also improved a lot since the xim4 model, now called xim apex.


    I think it is cheating because I gave some reasons and that also not everybody can use one as their set up might not allow for a mouse and keyboard. Probably a high percentage actually, as most just sit on their sofa and play.

    The short answer is that it's not cheating because it's not against any rules in a public game.

    Sony have no issue with different hardware input devices. Different hardware inputs (and outputs for that matter) are entirely acceptable from a Sony perspective (and I believe EA/Dice have the same view). Sony even officially license a KB/M - the Hori TAC Pro, as well as a whole variety of custom controllers including steering wheels, gamepads, and joysticks. Not to mention a whole bunch of pro controllers too. All of them are designed to make it easier to play certain game types.

    Everyone is allowed their own opinion on what they consider a 'cheat', but from a Sony perspective at least - it isn't. Everyone is pretty much free to use whatever input device, video output device, and sound output device they like AFAIK.
  • WetFishDB
    1974 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2018
    The whole point of playing on console is that everyone uses the same hardware and that makes things fair.

    This is simply not correct. That might be what you want it to be, but it simply isn't. Console users ALL have different hardware setups - different displays, sound setups, and even at the console level.

    We all have a different display device - with different response times, frame rates, resolution, colour representation (IPS vs TN), HDR or not etc, all of which makes it different how we see enemies. At the console level, there are at least a couple of current gen devices for each platform, meaning different supported resolutions, frame rates etc - again affecting how we see enemies. Some people use TV's and others monitors, which often affects how close we are to the display - again affecting how we see enemies. We all have different sound setups - some use TV speakers, sound bars, 7.1 speakers, stereo headsets, 7.1 headsets etc, all of which makes it different how we hear enemies. And we all have different controller setups - even the stock DS4 has been updated with the PS4 Pro, plus there are a raft of official licensed pro controllers (Nacon, Razer), a licensed KB/M, the Hori TAC Pro, and a load of unlicensed inputs too (Scuf, XIM, VenomX etc). Then there are controller tweaks, things like KontrolFreaks etc that help aiming too.

    Then factor in different internet setups too, and frankly you are unlikely to ever come across someone who has the exact same setup as you.
  • magosnow
    607 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    So @LOLGotYerTags closed that thread after it was up for a while,and you open another to discuss the same thing?
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5319 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    "Cheaters" on consoles??? Time to call the police!!!
This discussion has been closed.