Battlefield 5 anti-cheat

Comments

  • BGisG0d
    41 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    warslag wrote: »
    As I said before, EA likes FairFight because it uses in-game evidence to prove a player is cheating.

    This removes any embarrassment to EA from a ban issued on the basis of detected client-side cheating which the player could then dispute.

    You can see from this Reddit post that the appeal of FairFight to game developers is the way it avoids 'ambiguous' bans.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/4476qr/how_fairfight_works_what_it_does_and_what_it/

    "What is FairFight?
    FairFight by GameBlocks is a real time cheat detection and suppression system. FairFight is non-invasive, customizable and engine agnostic. It does not reside on the player's computer and does not examine the players' devices or perpetually look for the latest hacks. FairFight uses our proprietary GameChanger™ rule engine along with advanced database structures to evaluate players' real-time gameplay actions. FairFight combines algorithmic models that assess an array of statistical markers to identify possible cheating, and cross-checks these measurements using objective gameplay reporting to Make it a FairFight™ for everyone.

    How is FairFight different from Punkbuster and Valve Anti-Cheat?
    The most popular anti-cheat programs operate like an antivirus program, searching each players' computer for known strings of hack code. Since these programs scan memory and other components of your customer's computer, they not only raise privacy and security concerns, but they are also constantly 'fighting the last war'.

    FairFight uses a different and, we believe, far better approach. FairFight receives game play data from the game server and focuses on the gameplay itself to determine if a player is cheating."

    The only way you can know if a game's anti-cheat is working is if someone can genuinely prove they are getting away with it. Nobody seems to be doing that so FairFight must be working.

    If you feel the game is full of cheating then it must be that the game itself or your system is at fault.

    I still have more faith in PunkBuster. But that's just me.

    If they can't detect an obvious cheater flying in the sky, using tankhunter gun as normal soldier going 150-0 in BF1, only idiots would trust an anti-cheat like that. It's statistic there.

    Wrong class weapons
    Supicious score number (compare to his squad)
    Wrong movement space.

    It's all hard cold numbers and FF still can't do anything, then why think it would do better?
  • RealAshWilliams
    419 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    RRedux wrote: »
    To fight the cheat : give us the dedicated community servers as bf4, bf3, bbc2, bf Hard..etc with Procon & plugins and data base, the fight against cheaters is more effective.
    And we can improve the gameplay and the servers are better!

    That's basically what I want. But EA/Dice is going in the complete opposite direction, for reasons they don't want to divulge. I assume that the reason is that if players get too much control over the servers they play on, the various matchmaking algorithms EA uses for maximum monetization won't work as well.

    EA would rather have cheaters playing their game then allow the community to do something about it themselves. If they had some real anti-cheat measures, or actually took reports seriously

    I've reported people with video evidence, not just aimbots etc but players who literally ress people on their team all over the map while standing still in one spot, and at the same time playing the spotting animation on high gear, continually spotting everyone on the enemy team over and over from just standing in 1 location. NOTHING happened to that player. I bet reports never even get looked at by human eyes until several hundred players report the same cheater, then MAYBE someone looks at it.

    Everything seems to indicate that BF5 is continuing in that direction. It's too bad really, I am getting a bit tired of bf1, and would like to play a new battlefield game, but going on what I am hearing from the beta, I doubt I'll pick it up.

    What I expected to hear about a beta test is performance issues, bugs, etc but what I am hearing is bad gameplay mechanics. Really unfortunate :<


    Exactly it's pitiful for EA and DICE to say nothing for dedicated servers, they have no respect for the players.
    But you are told that DICE and EA are listening to the community!!

    With my friends, not dedicated servers (Procon), no pre-order.
  • disposalist
    8956 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited September 2018
    What region are people seeing cheaters? I've played quite a lot in EU and seen none in BF5.

    In BF1 in 1500+ hours in the EU I've seen maybe 25 definite cheaters and 25 suspects, which is nothing, really.

    Maybe different regions should have different measures.
  • italickus
    394 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2018
    Installed the game this morning, played for like two hours straight and seen at least 10 cheaters already. Last one a russian dude went 89-7 conquest on Narvik playing assault (no vehicles). He was one shot killing anything with smg at any distance. Too bad he managed to killed me thru rocks and even the medical storage at least 9 times

    Hope they get rid of FairFight, its just a joke. And this time instant permaban for cheaters. Not 1 week ban like in BF1. I know EA/Dice cares to protect cheaters being cheaters buyers of the game, but c'mon
  • ackers75
    2651 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2018
    The new PUBG system is not a bad idea and it shows at least there trying.
    Unlike just reporting and hoping they got banned before the earth ended
    Just go look on these cheat forums and fairfight is seemed as a slight annoyance and nothing more
  • FPSgamer69
    395 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    does the beta have cheats already? I see the weirdest kills already.
  • Il-Scavenger-lI
    903 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited September 2018
    FPSgamer69 wrote: »
    does the beta have cheats already? I see the weirdest kills already.

    Alpha had them. Not saying they are everywhere, but yes, cheat devs had their basic stuff going after half a day.
  • FPSgamer69
    395 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    FPSgamer69 wrote: »
    does the beta have cheats already? I see the weirdest kills already.

    Alpha had them. Not saying they are everywhere, but yes, cheat devs had their basic stuff going after half a day.

    damn..a shame.
    Oh well..I wait a few months and see were it goes.
    No fun like this
  • LOLGotYerTags
    14359 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    But if you expose a cheater (and i mean a BLATANT cheater) here you get warned or banned... lame EA ... :(

    Discussion of moderation is not permitted.

    Also name and shame is not permitted, Per forum rules.

    You report them and move on.

    And you gave me 1 week ban for this?? just pathetic...

    You're still discussing moderation.

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/137240/battlefield-forum-rules-and-guidelines
  • italickus
    394 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2018
    FPSgamer69 wrote: »
    does the beta have cheats already? I see the weirdest kills already.

    Lots of them. Yeah same for me. Getting one shotted with anything, even a pistol with me full health (medic). Then you see magic bullets flying around from the remote corners of the world, shot by all SMG's. Then snipers one shot killing you at the body etc.

    In last operations game, a dude managed to kill me thru a 2 meters high wall made of friggin sand bags. Sand bags!!

    I dont even think open beta has an anticheat system.

  • RRedux
    754 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    FPSgamer69 wrote: »
    does the beta have cheats already? I see the weirdest kills already.

    Lots of them. Yeah same for me. Getting one shotted with anything, even a pistol with me full health (medic). Then you see magic bullets flying around from the remote corners of the world, shot by all SMG's. Then snipers one shot killing you at the body etc.

    In last operations game, a dude managed to kill me thru a 2 meters high wall made of friggin sand bags. Sand bags!!

    I dont even think open beta has an anticheat system.

    Well the cheat makers, like Helios, use alphas and betas to tune their pre-existing cheat engines for the new game. Probably doesn't take a lot of work either, since it uses the same engine, it likely uses the same basic mechanics for shooting and wallhacking etc. that the previous bf games used.

    So the cheat engine will be ready for full usage on launch.

    Interesting fact is that he said himself on the forum of the site where people can subscribe to his cheat engine, that he won't be making cheats for Overwatch, as he is afraid of getting sued. After all, blizzard has sued cheat-creators in the past.

    But EA doesn't do that, they are completely fine with 3rd party software tampering in their games.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    RRedux wrote: »
    FPSgamer69 wrote: »
    does the beta have cheats already? I see the weirdest kills already.

    Lots of them. Yeah same for me. Getting one shotted with anything, even a pistol with me full health (medic). Then you see magic bullets flying around from the remote corners of the world, shot by all SMG's. Then snipers one shot killing you at the body etc.

    In last operations game, a dude managed to kill me thru a 2 meters high wall made of friggin sand bags. Sand bags!!

    I dont even think open beta has an anticheat system.

    Well the cheat makers, like Helios, use alphas and betas to tune their pre-existing cheat engines for the new game. Probably doesn't take a lot of work either, since it uses the same engine, it likely uses the same basic mechanics for shooting and wallhacking etc. that the previous bf games used.

    So the cheat engine will be ready for full usage on launch.

    Interesting fact is that he said himself on the forum of the site where people can subscribe to his cheat engine, that he won't be making cheats for Overwatch, as he is afraid of getting sued. After all, blizzard has sued cheat-creators in the past.

    But EA doesn't do that, they are completely fine with 3rd party software tampering in their games.

    It's not that EA is fine. It's really expensive to sue people. While Blizzard won their last legal battle with cheat creators, their previous lawsuit with the same manufacturer came out in favor to the defendant. Not only did the cheat manufacturer get to keep selling, the judge made Blizzard pay for all their lawyer fees.

    That's a huge gamble that many dont want to make.
  • RRedux
    754 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2018
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    It's not that EA is fine. It's really expensive to sue people. While Blizzard won their last legal battle with cheat creators, their previous lawsuit with the same manufacturer came out in favor to the defendant. Not only did the cheat manufacturer get to keep selling, the judge made Blizzard pay for all their lawyer fees.

    That's a huge gamble that many dont want to make.

    Blizzard was willing to do it because they care more about the integrity of their games. EA just doesn't care that much. Which makes sense I suppose, since Blizzard are more involved in the making of their own games, while EA's business model is more along the lines of acquiring other companies and then squeeze as much money as they can from the new game series they bought.

    In bf4, the community took measures themselves to combat the cheating-problem, but EA didn't allow for that in bf1, and not in bf5. It wouldn't actually cost EA anything to let the community have the options to combat the issue themselves like they did in bf4, but allowing the community to do that would mean relinquishing a tiny smidgen of control to server owners, which (I assume) does not fit into the business plan.

    It's one thing that EA won't do anything about it, but it is far worse that they won't let the community do anything about it either.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    RRedux wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    It's not that EA is fine. It's really expensive to sue people. While Blizzard won their last legal battle with cheat creators, their previous lawsuit with the same manufacturer came out in favor to the defendant. Not only did the cheat manufacturer get to keep selling, the judge made Blizzard pay for all their lawyer fees.

    That's a huge gamble that many dont want to make.

    Blizzard was willing to do it because they care more about the integrity of their games. EA just doesn't care that much. Which makes sense I suppose, since Blizzard are more involved in the making of their own games, while EA's business model is more along the lines of acquiring other companies and then squeeze as much money as they can from the new game series they bought.

    Again though it was a gamble, Blizzard lost once and had to spend a lot of money to cover their legal fees as well as the legal fees of the defendents. That is something that can be very costly and can effect profits if you are publicly traded companies.
    RRedux wrote: »
    In bf4, the community took measures themselves to combat the cheating-problem, but EA didn't allow for that in bf1, and not in bf5. It wouldn't actually cost EA anything to let the community have the options to combat the issue themselves like they did in bf4, but allowing the community to do that would mean relinquishing a tiny smidgen of control to server owners, which (I assume) does not fit into the business plan.

    Yes the community took measures themselves....I have seen plenty of videos showing good players getting booted from servers because some ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ admin claimed hackusations. Was there real cheaters, yes, but putting the law into players hands also creates a wild west mentality that allows one to boot for other unjustified reasons (ruining their kill streak, using lock-ons, taking a vehicle that was "claimed" for admins use). Honestly I am glad that these things were taken away from the community cause we (as a community) have shown that we can use he power properly.
    RRedux wrote: »
    It's one thing that EA won't do anything about it, but it is far worse that they won't let the community do anything about it either.

    DICE has invested in anti cheat and as many have claimed, the amount of cheaters in BF1 is far fewer than in BF4 which shows they are doing things to resolve the issue. They stated in a recent interview that they are investing heavily into more anti-cheat software for BFV, so to say they don't care and are not doing anything is not true.

    I say before judgement is made, see what the finish product is and what they have done to address this issue.
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    BGisG0d wrote: »
    warslag wrote: »
    As I said before, EA likes FairFight because it uses in-game evidence to prove a player is cheating.

    This removes any embarrassment to EA from a ban issued on the basis of detected client-side cheating which the player could then dispute.

    You can see from this Reddit post that the appeal of FairFight to game developers is the way it avoids 'ambiguous' bans.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/4476qr/how_fairfight_works_what_it_does_and_what_it/

    "What is FairFight?
    FairFight by GameBlocks is a real time cheat detection and suppression system. FairFight is non-invasive, customizable and engine agnostic. It does not reside on the player's computer and does not examine the players' devices or perpetually look for the latest hacks. FairFight uses our proprietary GameChanger™ rule engine along with advanced database structures to evaluate players' real-time gameplay actions. FairFight combines algorithmic models that assess an array of statistical markers to identify possible cheating, and cross-checks these measurements using objective gameplay reporting to Make it a FairFight™ for everyone.

    How is FairFight different from Punkbuster and Valve Anti-Cheat?
    The most popular anti-cheat programs operate like an antivirus program, searching each players' computer for known strings of hack code. Since these programs scan memory and other components of your customer's computer, they not only raise privacy and security concerns, but they are also constantly 'fighting the last war'.

    FairFight uses a different and, we believe, far better approach. FairFight receives game play data from the game server and focuses on the gameplay itself to determine if a player is cheating."

    The only way you can know if a game's anti-cheat is working is if someone can genuinely prove they are getting away with it. Nobody seems to be doing that so FairFight must be working.

    If you feel the game is full of cheating then it must be that the game itself or your system is at fault.

    I still have more faith in PunkBuster. But that's just me.

    If they can't detect an obvious cheater flying in the sky, using tankhunter gun as normal soldier going 150-0 in BF1, only idiots would trust an anti-cheat like that. It's statistic there.

    Wrong class weapons
    Supicious score number (compare to his squad)
    Wrong movement space.

    It's all hard cold numbers and FF still can't do anything, then why think it would do better?

    I think you underestimate people's ability to write cheats and bypass fairfight. It's not black and white. Some of these cheats are sophisticated. I remember reading online from an anti cheat source that in one instance someone was able to hack a game using an Xbox controller spoof and spoofing the game to think it was an Xbox controller connected when it was actually a cheat program running.

    I hope they have better stop gaps in place. For example some cheater got 1000 kills. Twice. I agree that should be stopped but the cheat is probably sophisticated .
  • RRedux
    754 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    DICE has invested in anti cheat and as many have claimed, the amount of cheaters in BF1 is far fewer than in BF4 which shows they are doing things to resolve the issue. They stated in a recent interview that they are investing heavily into more anti-cheat software for BFV, so to say they don't care and are not doing anything is not true.

    I say before judgement is made, see what the finish product is and what they have done to address this issue.

    You claim that the amount of cheaters in bf1 is far fewer than in bf4. What do you base that claim on exactly?

    It's not like cheaters are less inclined to cheat than they used to, the current anti-cheat measures used in bf1 are by no means any better than the ones used in bf4, but in addition bf1 lacks community-run anti-cheat measures.

    The people who make the hacks laugh at fairfight, and reports of cheaters doesn't even get read by a human most of the time. I reported a guy, WITH video evidence, that was standing at the middle of the bridge on argonne forest, ressing people from all across the map, teleporting them to his location as they were ressed, at the same time his soldier played the "spotting" animation on loop, spotting every enemy soldier over and over again from just standing still on the bridge.

    I reported it, with links to the video of him just sitting there doing that, and then nothing happened. Fairfight didn't detect it, so therefore any reports get ignored. And fairfight apparently only detects if a player go 150-0 or something similarly ridiculous in regards to kills, but reviving everyone on the team from one location doesn't register.

    I have no faith that EA will ever get a good anti-cheat system implemented for bf5, which is why I want bf4-style server administration back. Bad admins are outnumbered thousand-fold by cheaters, getting wrongfully kicked by an admin doesn't justify giving cheaters basically free reign.

    Go to Helios's site, just take a gander about what they say about fairfight on the forums there. Go on.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    RRedux wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    DICE has invested in anti cheat and as many have claimed, the amount of cheaters in BF1 is far fewer than in BF4 which shows they are doing things to resolve the issue. They stated in a recent interview that they are investing heavily into more anti-cheat software for BFV, so to say they don't care and are not doing anything is not true.

    I say before judgement is made, see what the finish product is and what they have done to address this issue.

    You claim that the amount of cheaters in bf1 is far fewer than in bf4. What do you base that claim on exactly?

    It's not like cheaters are less inclined to cheat than they used to, the current anti-cheat measures used in bf1 are by no means any better than the ones used in bf4, but in addition bf1 lacks community-run anti-cheat measures.

    The people who make the hacks laugh at fairfight, and reports of cheaters doesn't even get read by a human most of the time. I reported a guy, WITH video evidence, that was standing at the middle of the bridge on argonne forest, ressing people from all across the map, teleporting them to his location as they were ressed, at the same time his soldier played the "spotting" animation on loop, spotting every enemy soldier over and over again from just standing still on the bridge.

    I reported it, with links to the video of him just sitting there doing that, and then nothing happened. Fairfight didn't detect it, so therefore any reports get ignored. And fairfight apparently only detects if a player go 150-0 or something similarly ridiculous in regards to kills, but reviving everyone on the team from one location doesn't register.

    I have no faith that EA will ever get a good anti-cheat system implemented for bf5, which is why I want bf4-style server administration back. Bad admins are outnumbered thousand-fold by cheaters, getting wrongfully kicked by an admin doesn't justify giving cheaters basically free reign.

    Go to Helios's site, just take a gander about what they say about fairfight on the forums there. Go on.

    Here are some articles:

    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/battlefield-1-dice-is-banning-more-cheaters-than-e/1100-6456587/

    https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/02/06/battlefield-1-has-banned-more-cheaters-than-ever-before-with-positive-results

    They also have stated in the most recent interview they are investing heavily on more anticheat features to continue the momentum into BFV.

    So you reported a supposed cheater, and nothing happened. So now you are saying the whole system is broken and doesn't work? PUBG in the same time banned over 1million players in a month....you think they got them all? Guess their system is broken too......talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
  • Il-Scavenger-lI
    903 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited September 2018
    Still they actually had to cheat for a while to get on the radar. Nothing stopping them from installing it. That's why I personally think a client side system where cheats can be added too is nice to have. Cheats need to be changed then in order to avoid an instant boot.
    .
    The articles both offer no in dept comparisons, rather repeat the words from Dice and EA.
    .
    Dealing with the 'special' part of the community might leave me somewhat biassed on this matter. But there surely are quite a few cases which leave me wonder why FF does not pick them up. In BFV, 1 and 4. Then I mean the most blatant ones, flying, having weapons not available in MP, impossible amounts of spotting ribbons, teleporting etc etc.
  • Photonic-Prophet
    32 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I haven't said this in years, but I'm going to buy cod before battlefield. I just want to play a decent game. As it sits, blackout looks like what i want this year. I play pubg and well, they got some nice footage out there. not a fanboy of either, just see EA as the company they are and really see no need to support their behavior with my dollars.
  • RRedux
    754 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2018
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Here are some articles:

    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/battlefield-1-dice-is-banning-more-cheaters-than-e/1100-6456587/

    https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/02/06/battlefield-1-has-banned-more-cheaters-than-ever-before-with-positive-results

    They also have stated in the most recent interview they are investing heavily on more anticheat features to continue the momentum into BFV.

    So you reported a supposed cheater, and nothing happened. So now you are saying the whole system is broken and doesn't work? PUBG in the same time banned over 1million players in a month....you think they got them all? Guess their system is broken too......talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    You post articles that say they are banning more people than ever, and at the same time claim that bf1 is less cheat-infested than bf4.

    You'd think that the constant stream of people being banned every day since launch would tell you something about the sheer amount of cheaters that are playing. If there weren't that many cheaters in bf1, there wouldn't be that many to ban, now would it?

    And besides, fairfight only catches the people who use ridiculous, over the top-cheats. I also don't think you've ever actually looked into what some of the most well-known cheat creators have to say about Fairfight. [cheat creator name removed] is running a business selling cheats for mainstream games, fairfight can't detect his engine at all.
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