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BF 5 Managed to have the weakest bolt action rifles of the genre??

Comments

  • Hawxxeye
    2610 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 11
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    SMGs better at range than BF1? With guns like the RSC SMG and the literal STG44 (plus bipod) of BF1 the Ribbey? No wonder we aren't seeing eye to eye here, we're clearly playing 2 different games.

    DICE has already said there will be SMGs balanced more towards longer ranged engagements. I didn't have any trouble reaching out to medium ranges with the Sten in the beta.

    The Ribeyrolles is less effective at range unless you're using the bipod due to random spread.

    But it had a completely uncompetitive TTK when doing so, which I guess only matters for sniper rifles. There is also going to be CQB oriented scout guns on launch, there just won't be super shotguns. That should stay in the discard pile of horrible ideas like suppression and spawn invulnerability since it is at least equally as cancerous.
    @MarxistDictator
    CQB Oriented scout guns? Where?
    All I saw in the announced launch guns were bolt actions and 5 bullet capacity semi autos.
    Post edited by Hawxxeye on
  • -L-M3rc3n4ry
    464 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    SMGs better at range than BF1? With guns like the RSC SMG and the literal STG44 (plus bipod) of BF1 the Ribbey? No wonder we aren't seeing eye to eye here, we're clearly playing 2 different games.

    DICE has already said there will be SMGs balanced more towards longer ranged engagements. I didn't have any trouble reaching out to medium ranges with the Sten in the beta.

    The Ribeyrolles is less effective at range unless you're using the bipod due to random spread.

    But it had a completely uncompetitive TTK when doing so, which I guess only matters for sniper rifles. There is also going to be CQB oriented scout guns on launch, there just won't be super shotguns. That should stay in the discard pile of horrible ideas like suppression and spawn invulnerability since it is at least equally as cancerous.
    CQB Oriented scout guns? Where?
    All I saw in the announced launch guns were bolt actions and 5 bullet capacity semi autos.

    Well said. No suppressed SMG for recon, no rifle with the same damage model as Martini Henry(best CQB rifle on BF1), no good sidearms, my point is not that snipers should get an weapon that is good in any situation is that they need an cqb option
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Gforce81 wrote: »
    I DO agree, that high proficiency with any weapon in this game should take many hours of practice to do well with. My argument isn't that the rifles weak; its that all the other weapon types take considerably less time and practice to do comparably well with.

    Exactly. 100%. Every other class is such a joke to do well with. I do have hundreds of hours using bolt actions across a multitude of games. In BF1 alone, I had 150 hours using bolt actions. Yet I can pick up an SMG or Assault Rifle with a lot less experience using them and do incredibly well, even better than I can with a bolt action. I've only got 68 hours using assault in BF1, and yet with some of those weapons I've got 2.7 kills per minute. Which is quite a bit higher than I can manage on scout.

    This isn't uncommon either. The vast majority of players do better with the other 3 classes regardless of their experience using bolt actions.

    Also, FYI, not directed at you Gforce81, the BFV headshot hitbox is the same size as BF4's.

    Stodeh and Ravic lol... yeah, lets use literally some of the best players in the entire game to show balance. Stodeh had a game with the STG44 where he went 115 - 5. I didn't see him get that high with a bolt action. So I guess if you want to do really well with bolt actions, you've gotta be one of the best players in the world. But with every other weapon, above average will do.

    Which is why I've always referred to automatic weapons as "easy mode", not to be inflammatory, just because it's true. Especially assault weapons in past titles.

    Well said. About 115/5, is something that i with tanks will have problems doing on bf1.
  • Mystriall
    494 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    What's up with constantly blaming BF1? BF3 and BF4 were good for close ranged bolt actions as well. Especially BF4.

    I don't know why I have to say it so many times, but I don't want OHK body shots or strong long ranged weapons. I want iron sight rifles that perform in an appropriate range for iron sights (close-medium). I want weapons that don't exclude a class from being a contributing member of the team.
    -
    To be fair the sniper class has alot of ways to contribute to the team :) it's not all about being able to get the most kills. But if a strong autorifle powered CQB class is what you want then sniper isn't the class for you.
    -
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    CQB Oriented scout guns? Where?
    All I saw in the announced launch guns were bolt actions and 5 bullet capacity semi autos.
    -
    I had no issues with the Drilling shotgun against 2-3-4-5 players at a time at close range, depending on the situation ofcourse, but in general no issues. And the Shotgun only has 2 shots, and not the fastest reload in the world either.
    -
    The snipers zh-29 overall is no wrose than the drilling at close range, at the very least not if you can remove the scope in customization. If you can do that, then the only time the Drilling will performe better is if you are riiight up in the enemies **** in close combat.

  • Hawxxeye
    2610 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Mystriall wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    What's up with constantly blaming BF1? BF3 and BF4 were good for close ranged bolt actions as well. Especially BF4.

    I don't know why I have to say it so many times, but I don't want OHK body shots or strong long ranged weapons. I want iron sight rifles that perform in an appropriate range for iron sights (close-medium). I want weapons that don't exclude a class from being a contributing member of the team.
    -
    To be fair the sniper class has alot of ways to contribute to the team :) it's not all about being able to get the most kills. But if a strong autorifle powered CQB class is what you want then sniper isn't the class for you.
    -
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    CQB Oriented scout guns? Where?
    All I saw in the announced launch guns were bolt actions and 5 bullet capacity semi autos.
    -
    I had no issues with the Drilling shotgun against 2-3-4-5 players at a time at close range, depending on the situation ofcourse, but in general no issues. And the Shotgun only has 2 shots, and not the fastest reload in the world either.
    -
    The snipers zh-29 overall is no wrose than the drilling at close range, at the very least not if you can remove the scope in customization. If you can do that, then the only time the Drilling will performe better is if you are riiight up in the enemies **** in close combat.
    First of all it is recon, not sniper. If I could have the gadgets of the class available on the other 3 classes I would not even use that class but since I have to I want it to have something worthwhile for contributing to the team cause I hate being associated with those campers in the distance. and Bf4 has fine full autos for the class, even Bf3 did to an extent, even bfh had a full auto sidearm.

    Second, the buckshots of the drilling could down in the beta people up to 20m away without even the rifle underbarell.


    Yes the Zh-29 is overall worse than the drilling at close range due to its rate of fire cap. I am not saying it should not have it but it does limit its ability to kill in CQB a lot compared to what one would expect from semi auto weapons.
  • Hawxxeye
    2610 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 11
    sorry for the double post, the original post was saved unexpectedly fast
  • Mystriall
    494 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 11
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    First of all it is recon, not sniper. If I could have the gadgets of the class available on the other 3 classes I would not even use that class but since I have to I want it to have something worthwhile for contributing to the team cause I hate being associated with those campers in the distance. and Bf4 has fine full autos for the class, even Bf3 did to an extent, even bfh had a full auto sidearm.

    Second, the buckshots of the drilling could down in the beta people up to 20m away without even the rifle underbarell.

    Yes the Zh-29 is overall worse than the drilling at close range due to its rate of fire cap. I am not saying it should not have it but it does limit its ability to kill in CQB a lot compared to what one would expect from semi auto weapons.
    -
    I didn't see a single buckshot kill from 20meters away, they are all up close kills.
    Here's another video, i'd say the first kill he gets is about at a 20m range:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=rHRxYmWvL6c
    -
    And here's an average or even below average player going sniper with the zh-29.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=oyzw2oYHUg8&t=
    -
    59 - 15 isn't bad, and as you can see from his aim and gameplay, he's no pro. And stodeh could probably get 115 / 5 with that weapon aswell, so pointing to him getting 115 5 with the STG44 means nothing. We even have videos of him doing 34-1 with the K98. again, pointing to his score doesn't show anything, other than that all weapons are good if you learn to use them. If your aim and in-game awareness is good, it doesn't matter what weapon you use, you will do good with anything.
    -
    And as i said, if you get the option to remove the scope from the zh-29, then it will absolutely become an even more valid option for close range, and just as good as the drilling if not better. I bet i can do better with the zh-29 then with the shotgun.
    -
    EDIT: I'm not arguing that the sniper or recon whatever you want to call it, is as easy to play as the other classes. I'm arguing that the weapons they have at their disposal are viable at almost any range. Again, especially if you get to remove the scope on the zh-29, then it will be a beast at close range. the same way the drilling is.
  • Hawxxeye
    2610 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Perhaps it was just a visibility issue but I was having trouble seeing enemies even in close quarters with the ZH iron sights in beta and when I was seeing them it felt like they were literally avoiding the iron sights with that ridiculous sideways mobility BF soldiers have.

    Perhaps it will be better on launch with soldiers standing out more from their backround.
  • Mystriall
    494 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Perhaps it was just a visibility issue but I was having trouble seeing enemies even in close quarters with the ZH iron sights in beta and when I was seeing them it felt like they were literally avoiding the iron sights with that ridiculous sideways mobility BF soldiers have.

    Perhaps it will be better on launch with soldiers standing out more from their backround.

    i agree, the visibility in general wasn't the best in the beta, or alpha for that matter. i often "lost" the targets in the background. They've made some changes so i guess we'll see how it affects gameplay.
  • RaysGoodLiquor
    1 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Most of the Bad Company 2 recon rifles were relatively weak compared to others games in the series, but I also enjoyed the recon class most in BC2. I haven't/probably won't play Battlefield 5, so I can't make an honest comparison.
  • -L-M3rc3n4ry
    464 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Most of the Bad Company 2 recon rifles were relatively weak compared to others games in the series, but I also enjoyed the recon class most in BC2. I haven't/probably won't play Battlefield 5, so I can't make an honest comparison.

    I disagree. M95 on BFBC2 was pretty good. OHK up to 40m with MA is similar to Hardline and BF1 sniper strength. Sure, it fires very slowly just like Martini but Martini is a pretty strong rifle on bf 1. Also, snipers have an fully auto weapon on BFBC2, VSS. VSS on CQB can compete with SMG's.

    So yes, snipers on BFBC2 can be long range with an GOL Magnum, can be CQB with VSS, can engage armor with Barrett M95, are pretty much versatile
  • MarxistDictator
    4381 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefield/images/2/2a/M95RangeBC2.png/revision/latest?cb=20120415080733

    OHK was 20m only 25m with magnum

    M95 also did not damage tanks.

    Lets remember the game correctly next time.

    Also if you literally want an automatic rifle play a different class for crying out loud. That comment is literally proof this camp doesn't care about the design of the game or balance.
  • Hawxxeye
    2610 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefield/images/2/2a/M95RangeBC2.png/revision/latest?cb=20120415080733

    OHK was 20m only 25m with magnum

    M95 also did not damage tanks.

    Lets remember the game correctly next time.

    Also if you literally want an automatic rifle play a different class for crying out loud. That comment is literally proof this camp doesn't care about the design of the game or balance.
    I will say it once more. When I play recon/scout, I play it because my team needs spotting from the class exclusive gadgets there would be no other reason to subject myself to the most stigmatized class of the series.
    In that end some of us claimed that the class is lacking in the weapon department in order to be able to defend itself and contribute enough to the objective attack/defense.

    To that end I will keep pointing that out until something happens or until we get an alternative special forces class that gets the close range recon gadgets like the flares and the beacon.
  • ninjapenquinuk
    993 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefield/images/2/2a/M95RangeBC2.png/revision/latest?cb=20120415080733

    OHK was 20m only 25m with magnum

    M95 also did not damage tanks.

    Lets remember the game correctly next time.

    Also if you literally want an automatic rifle play a different class for crying out loud. That comment is literally proof this camp doesn't care about the design of the game or balance.
    I will say it once more. When I play recon/scout, I play it because my team needs spotting from the class exclusive gadgets there would be no other reason to subject myself to the most stigmatized class of the series.
    In that end some of us claimed that the class is lacking in the weapon department in order to be able to defend itself and contribute enough to the objective attack/defense.

    To that end I will keep pointing that out until something happens or until we get an alternative special forces class that gets the close range recon gadgets like the flares and the beacon.

    Problem is if you gave 1 class both a good CQB primary and spotting flares that would be a bit too OP
  • MarxistDictator
    4381 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 11
    Ok, so you want spot flares for an advantage in CQB and then some auto weapon on top of that. Pretty sure there's a good reason why that is not the case.

    And saying you will be stigmatized for playing scout as intended doesn't count either. That's like saying I'll get hate mail for flying a plane so I won't.

    Trying to square peg round hole scout into a role he isn't designed to be as effective at and then whining that he isn't as effective as the other classes there doesn't somehow make it a valid complaint.
  • Hawxxeye
    2610 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 11
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefield/images/2/2a/M95RangeBC2.png/revision/latest?cb=20120415080733

    OHK was 20m only 25m with magnum

    M95 also did not damage tanks.

    Lets remember the game correctly next time.

    Also if you literally want an automatic rifle play a different class for crying out loud. That comment is literally proof this camp doesn't care about the design of the game or balance.
    I will say it once more. When I play recon/scout, I play it because my team needs spotting from the class exclusive gadgets there would be no other reason to subject myself to the most stigmatized class of the series.
    In that end some of us claimed that the class is lacking in the weapon department in order to be able to defend itself and contribute enough to the objective attack/defense.

    To that end I will keep pointing that out until something happens or until we get an alternative special forces class that gets the close range recon gadgets like the flares and the beacon.

    Problem is if you gave 1 class both a good CQB primary and spotting flares that would be a bit too OP
    Instead we get 1 class with both good CQB and the ability to start every fight on full heath and nobody bats an eye and unlike the flares which unless you camp an ammo station are very limited the a bandage pouches of the medic are infinite.

    Do not blame the scouts for not contributing inside the objective enough if they care not allowed to then.

    @MarxistDictator
    Do me a favor and do not label things you do not agree with as "whining"
  • MarxistDictator
    4381 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Why not go one step further and remove class restrictions on guns entirely? If you want the whole package in scout we should be able to do everything as every other class too. Gadgets as well, why should I have to be limited to the ones avaliable to one class?
  • -L-M3rc3n4ry
    464 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefield/images/2/2a/M95RangeBC2.png/revision/latest?cb=20120415080733

    OHK was 20m only 25m with magnum

    M95 also did not damage tanks.

    Lets remember the game correctly next time.

    Also if you literally want an automatic rifle play a different class for crying out loud. That comment is literally proof this camp doesn't care about the design of the game or balance.

    25m still the double of BF4 and you don't need to hit on upper chest... About tanks, never said that M95 can damage a MBT on BFBC2, but can damage helicopters and headshot you behind the armor on the boat
  • ninjapenquinuk
    993 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefield/images/2/2a/M95RangeBC2.png/revision/latest?cb=20120415080733

    OHK was 20m only 25m with magnum

    M95 also did not damage tanks.

    Lets remember the game correctly next time.

    Also if you literally want an automatic rifle play a different class for crying out loud. That comment is literally proof this camp doesn't care about the design of the game or balance.
    I will say it once more. When I play recon/scout, I play it because my team needs spotting from the class exclusive gadgets there would be no other reason to subject myself to the most stigmatized class of the series.
    In that end some of us claimed that the class is lacking in the weapon department in order to be able to defend itself and contribute enough to the objective attack/defense.

    To that end I will keep pointing that out until something happens or until we get an alternative special forces class that gets the close range recon gadgets like the flares and the beacon.

    Problem is if you gave 1 class both a good CQB primary and spotting flares that would be a bit too OP
    Instead we get 1 class with both good CQB and the ability to start every fight on full heath and nobody bats an eye and unlike the flares which unless you camp an ammo station are very limited the a bandage pouches of the medic are infinite.

    Do not blame the scouts for not contributing inside the objective enough if they care not allowed to then.

    @MarxistDictator
    Do me a favor and do not label things you do not agree with as "whining"

    I have found it odd that they have switched weapon classes round for Assault and Medic from BF1. I feel that change makes weapon balance for Assaults harder to achieve. I get the point that Medics are meant to be close to the action to revive so need to be able to defend themselves, but they arent meant to be shock troops. The Assault class are meant to the shock troops storming enemy strong points up close, so giving them medium range weapons doesn't make much sense - if each class must have a designated weapon range. So we may have a situation (yet to be seen in full game though)where Assault weapons like the STG are outmatching medic weapons at CQ range as well as their designated medium range, which breaks the system.
    .
    As for scouts not contributing inside objectives; Once again its not that you have snipers sitting on a hill, it's the fact you can, at times, have too many doing that, and this is what can destroy a 'competitive' round. That's why i have no problem with a sniper being a more tricky role to play.
  • Hawxxeye
    2610 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefield/images/2/2a/M95RangeBC2.png/revision/latest?cb=20120415080733

    OHK was 20m only 25m with magnum

    M95 also did not damage tanks.

    Lets remember the game correctly next time.

    Also if you literally want an automatic rifle play a different class for crying out loud. That comment is literally proof this camp doesn't care about the design of the game or balance.
    I will say it once more. When I play recon/scout, I play it because my team needs spotting from the class exclusive gadgets there would be no other reason to subject myself to the most stigmatized class of the series.
    In that end some of us claimed that the class is lacking in the weapon department in order to be able to defend itself and contribute enough to the objective attack/defense.

    To that end I will keep pointing that out until something happens or until we get an alternative special forces class that gets the close range recon gadgets like the flares and the beacon.

    Problem is if you gave 1 class both a good CQB primary and spotting flares that would be a bit too OP
    Instead we get 1 class with both good CQB and the ability to start every fight on full heath and nobody bats an eye and unlike the flares which unless you camp an ammo station are very limited the a bandage pouches of the medic are infinite.

    Do not blame the scouts for not contributing inside the objective enough if they care not allowed to then.

    @MarxistDictator
    Do me a favor and do not label things you do not agree with as "whining"

    I have found it odd that they have switched weapon classes round for Assault and Medic from BF1. I feel that change makes weapon balance for Assaults harder to achieve. I get the point that Medics are meant to be close to the action to revive so need to be able to defend themselves, but they arent meant to be shock troops. The Assault class are meant to the shock troops storming enemy strong points up close, so giving them medium range weapons doesn't make much sense - if each class must have a designated weapon range. So we may have a situation (yet to be seen in full game though)where Assault weapons like the STG are outmatching medic weapons at CQ range as well as their designated medium range, which breaks the system.
    .
    As for scouts not contributing inside objectives; Once again its not that you have snipers sitting on a hill, it's the fact you can, at times, have too many doing that, and this is what can destroy a 'competitive' round. That's why i have no problem with a sniper being a more tricky role to play.

    What other choice do they have if they do not want to get slaughtered on closer ranges with their niche weapon options?

    We are seeing a situation where too many people use the class from as far as they feel comfortable with.
    Then people say the people in that class should be getting closer to the objectives. Only their weapons are not balanced to be as effective at that range as those of other classes at which point they are told their class is not meant to be used at close ranges in the objective.
    .
    And the circle begins anew.
    .
    What sense are we supposed to make out of this clusterfork of contradicting statements? Can someone please enlighten me cause I am getting a headache over here!
    .
    PS: I agree about the medic vs assault issue
  • trip1ex
    3654 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited October 11
    Kunstula wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Don't know what you're talking about. Snipers were powerful in BF5 beta. Some of you are just too blind to realize it I guess.

    The fact you can easily hide in the environment and not be seen/spotted is massive. No glint on the smaller scope is huge. Glint is less easily visible as well. Worse health regen is another big benefit to snipers. Bigger head hit box at least compared to BF1 is huge. Little to no killcam is icing on the cake.

    And I know I'm leaving something out that I've since I've already started forgetting little details from the beta.

    But when I looked down the alleyway on Rotterdam and saw an empty alley and then a second later I'm sniped from the other side of the alley that tells you you need to know about the power of the snipers in BF5. They are as good as ever.


    All the points you listed are equally beneficial to all classes, not just snipers so it's a bad argument and your personal alley experience with a sniper is circumstantial, it doesn't prove that snipers are powerful in BF5. Using half truths and a fallacy to make a point, you're going to have to do much better than that.

    Nonsense. All those things benefit snipers more than other classes because snipers engage at longer distances and have OHK power. Try again.



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