Vehicule abuse In BF games, something needs to be done.

Comments

  • Turban_Legend80
    4241 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    However the BF4 system had his own problems. With players waiting not in a spawn menu, but around the spawn points in their base.

    That's not at all what people do in BF4. Whenever me and my bud want a tank in BF4, we wait on the spawn screen for it to come up, we don't wait in the location where it spawns in game. The spawn system in BF1/5 isn't really all that different to what was in BF4. The ONLY difference is that the vehicles don't spawn on the map, and that's a GOOD thing because it prevents enemy teams from stealing vehicles at spawn, and that could lead to MASSIVELY lopsided games. DICE NEVER intended for people to be stealing vehicles from the other teams spawn.

    Then why didn't they make the vehicles in-accessible to the enemy team? Surely at some point during the games life cycle they could have made a patch if it was unintentional.

    Wouldn’t you want to steal an enemy vehicle if it was abandoned in the middle of the map?
  • l_Grand_Vizir_l
    132 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited October 10
    That's not at all what people do in BF4. Whenever me and my bud want a tank in BF4, we wait on the spawn screen for it to come up, we don't wait in the location where it spawns in game.
    You're right, it happened in BF3 not in BF4.
    But we can see that Dice tried to improve the vehicule spawn mechanic all along the BF franchise. And if the new mechanic in BF1 was an improvment on some aspects, it opened the gate for confiscation of vehicules by some players.
    .
    I really think that a minor improvment on the actual system for BF5, with a timer or a queue as we discussed before in this subject, could really make a sense.
  • -Antares65z
    1174 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited October 10
    Worst idea I've heard. Let's turn it into a kinder garden where everyone gets a chance to play with the toys after turn.
    The problem is that BF have become an infantry game with some vehicles and not a vehicle game like before.

    How has BF become an infantry game? Last I checked, out of 29 maps, 16 of them have planes. WW1 was primarily an infantry fought war with a few planes and tanks sprinkled in every now and then. BF4 has a lot of vehicle maps. I'm not seeing how BF has become an infantry dominated game. Every BF game has had their share of infantry focused maps, most of them having at least armor vehicles present as well. In BF1 out of 29 maps, only four of them are true infantry maps with no armor or planes.
  • staRS-SirBob
    2029 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited October 10
    @-Antares65z wrote
    How has BF become an infantry game?.
    64 players + 2 tanks + 2 planes on small/medieum size maps is an infantry game with some vehicles. Most of the maps in BF1 don't even have 2 tanks.
    6 out of 8 maps in BFV will probably have the same infantry/vehicle ratio.
    I was not talking about BF4
  • DeadlyDanDaMan
    509 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I really think that a minor improvment on the actual system for BF5, with a timer or a queue as we discussed before in this subject, could really make a sense.

    Maybe. But it would have to be a REALLY short timer. Like maybe 10-15 seconds after a vehicle is ready to be taken, to give someone else a chance to get it if you had previously had it. If no one wants it in that 10-15 seconds, you are free to take it again. Anything longer than that is just FAR too punishing for good players.
  • DingoKillr
    2782 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    However the BF4 system had his own problems. With players waiting not in a spawn menu, but around the spawn points in their base.

    That's not at all what people do in BF4. Whenever me and my bud want a tank in BF4, we wait on the spawn screen for it to come up, we don't wait in the location where it spawns in game. The spawn system in BF1/5 isn't really all that different to what was in BF4. The ONLY difference is that the vehicles don't spawn on the map, and that's a GOOD thing because it prevents enemy teams from stealing vehicles at spawn, and that could lead to MASSIVELY lopsided games. DICE NEVER intended for people to be stealing vehicles from the other teams spawn.

    Then why didn't they make the vehicles in-accessible to the enemy team? Surely at some point during the games life cycle they could have made a patch if it was unintentional.

    DICE is not stopping you grabbing an abandoned vehicle. Vehicle spawn in BF1 have 3 function 1) stop stealing/ambushing at spawn 2) allow you to choice and 3) advance with flags.
  • parkingbrake
    993 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    I don't play games to support a developer. If I have to bend over backwards to keep a game alive, I will very gladly play another game and let the delusional fools complain forever. If they want to dole out more money like idiots who are slaves to the developer, I will laugh. Hard. Very hard.

    Your motives are irrelevant, the issue is that a game which doesn't attract and hold casual players is going to disappear and then nobody is playing, you included.
    Yes you do. You want the skills that you have to remain and the skills that you DON'T have to be taken away from those who have it.

    Ah, no, I certainly don't. I've tried everything in the BF games I've played in the past, no matter how bad I was I kept at it until I got the various dog tags and medals and so on. I am in no way against the game rewarding skill, but I am against the game being structured in a way that it cannot be fun for new or casual players.
    Also, you don't know the motives of players in their server choices. They don't know the skill level of randoms. Did it ever occur in your brain that maybe they're just another amateur gamer like you who has worked on their game more? Durrrr....... :D

    In some cases I very much know the motives of players, e.g. those servers where the home clan stacks one side to pad their stats. I recall a BF4 server where the home clan liked to ride tanks, so their rules included no mines, no C4, no guided anti-tank weapons, and if you killed too many of them with the attack chopper you were kicked. It was one of the few "badmin" servers I encountered, but at least there is an easy solution in such cases, just don't play there.

    There was some clown here years back who actually posted that the game should be designed to "punish" noobs to force them to either get better or uninstall the game. He made his motives clear, no need for any detective work there.
    Until you put your money down to provide these players servers, you are just a hypocrite.

    I put money into seventeen BF servers over the years, servers operated by the clan I belonged to and favorites-list servers I supported through donations. So I did in fact put my money where my mouth was.
    Also, I just want to point out how prejudiced your argument is. You are cynical about accomplished players' motives or merit. Do you want to know what else has no merit? Giving up and blaming other people. :D

    You fractured syntax aside, I not cynical, I'm realistic, I've seen too many "pros" pub stomping. Accomplished players who go into servers full of noobs and scrubs are like college athletes playing against grade-schoolers, all they are demonstrating is their own lack of character. Personally I like playing with and against better players, it's a good way to improve. But I also understand why there have been server operators who restrict players based on rank/skill rating etc., they provide a place where beginners can learn the game without being crushed every round.
    Conclusion: you sound like DICE's slave.

    I've slagged DICE up one side and down the other when I thought they deserved it. Your argument is full of emotion and devoid of logic.
  • l_Grand_Vizir_l
    132 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited October 10
    Maybe. But it would have to be a REALLY short timer. Like maybe 10-15 seconds after a vehicle is ready to be taken, to give someone else a chance to get it if you had previously had it. If no one wants it in that 10-15 seconds, you are free to take it again. Anything longer than that is just FAR too punishing for good players.
    I have no idea of "what would be a perfect timer", and in this discussion some other ideas may be better. It's a suggestion to improve the actual system.
    .
    But as i mentioned earlier, it's not a question of "good or bad" players, it's an idea to share vehicules to all players. Obviously vehicule in BF are far from being realistic and are quite easy to use. But you have to consider that every player has been a noob when he started to play, they improved their abilities by using vehicules and improving themselves. My idea is that all players should have oportunities to do soo and improve themselves.
    .
    Today i was playing on a conquest map. Once again while i was waiting for a plane mid round, the counter didn't had time to go on "1" and stayed on "0" while the guy who just has lost his plane had spam clic faster than me and got another plane... and i know the game and how it works!
    Beginners have no chance, how do you want them to get vehicules and become "good players" with such system?
    My opinion is that system is falsing the game as some players never have oportunity to "get good". But you're right, players who love playing vehicules do not have to be penalise. We should find a way to let everybody play vehicules and the actual system don't.
    .
    Personaly i had enough playtime to find some games where i did get vehicules and got my lvl50 on planes and tanks, but if you can't play a lot, it may be a nightmare.
    That's why i think Dice should improve the system.




  • madman001able
    483 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Aircraft and vehicle only game modes. Problem solved. They have hinted that there will be special timed events that will have aircraft only battles, and that if those seemed to be popular with the playerbase that they might become full time game modes.
  • TropicPoison
    1150 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    How about everyone just deals with it like it's always been and stop crying about it already, I highly doubt DICE is going to do any of these suggestions anyways.

    The only issue I have is with pilots there's usually always a way to take out a tank and planes don't seem crazy op like they are in BF1 so I don't see the issue.
  • Professor_RAWR
    149 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Sorry OP... I disagree with your idea because...


    In my experience, as a guy who loves flying planes and get multiple kills on it, it seriously BOTHERS me to see many other noob pilots who refuse to help the team because they rather...

    -crashing
    -crashing into tanks on purpose (kamakaze)
    -only focusing on farm killing and not other enemy planes (biggest air combat issue in this game)
    -Fly off bounds and not even trying to attack
    -crashing into the behemoth right after spawning which is always funny LOL
    -crashing...
    -crashing.......
    -crashing into enemy infantry.....


    and you're saying that... we should let THESE players get a chance to fly? NOPE.

    If I see a useless pilot just flying around farming kills and not taking down enemy planes, I usually wait in the spawn screen until I get into plane and then, do my best to support my team by taking down enemy planes and infantry. And yes, I know that there are some out there like you and many others who actually wants to practice.


    My only solution is to bring back practice training where you can fly any planes, and practice shooting down tanks, infantry dummies, etc. This was in BF4... why is it not included in BF1?

    What will even be better if there's enemy AI so you can practice taking them down. Just imagine flying your plane and your mission so to take down as many Ai planes as you like until you get used to flying and the combat.

    I basically mastered the planes by literally destroying empty tanks, jeeps, and jets back in Battlefield 3 in a empty sever... that's how I've practiced and I gave it many hours to it too. Even practice landing the jet, doing several maneuvers, etc.
  • Professor_RAWR
    149 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    as for plane abuse, tbh.... there isn't any solutions unless....


    My only solution is to completely remove attack planes/jets and just make fighter planes be in the game... that's it... basically air to air combat and absolutely NO ground support.


    -BF3 was great with jets despite the very OP attack jets.

    -BF4 just failed imo.... stealth jets combat was great (true air to air), but what's the point when the attack jets are literally better in both taking down ground and air vehicles? This was stupid imo. Never enjoyed flying the jets in BF4.

    -And now BF1 is basically similar to BF4 where the attack planes is somewhat, superior on every aspect except agility. It can take down air vehicles, infantry, and tanks. Meanwhile for the fighter planes, it's only good at taking down planes and....... yea that's it.



    Again, removing attack planes/ground support from the game is the only option to stop the "plane abuse" farm killing imo... and keep the fighter planes as it is when it's primary focus is taking down air vehicles and that's it.
  • Hawxxeye
    1901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member

    My only solution is to completely remove attack planes/jets and just make fighter planes be in the game... that's it... basically air to air combat and absolutely NO ground support.
    At that point one might as well wait until January for Ace combat 7
  • Turban_Legend80
    4241 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    as for plane abuse, tbh.... there isn't any solutions unless....


    My only solution is to completely remove attack planes/jets and just make fighter planes be in the game... that's it... basically air to air combat and absolutely NO ground support.


    -BF3 was great with jets despite the very OP attack jets.

    -BF4 just failed imo.... stealth jets combat was great (true air to air), but what's the point when the attack jets are literally better in both taking down ground and air vehicles? This was stupid imo. Never enjoyed flying the jets in BF4.

    -And now BF1 is basically similar to BF4 where the attack planes is somewhat, superior on every aspect except agility. It can take down air vehicles, infantry, and tanks. Meanwhile for the fighter planes, it's only good at taking down planes and....... yea that's it.



    Again, removing attack planes/ground support from the game is the only option to stop the "plane abuse" farm killing imo... and keep the fighter planes as it is when it's primary focus is taking down air vehicles and that's it.

    All jets in BF3 were OP. The team with the best pilot always won.

    I’m BF4 the stealth jetvis the top dog but the attack jet has more killing potential. This meant that if there was a good enemy pilot tearing up your team in the attack jet, you didn’t have to be as good as him to beat him; just take the stealth jet. And if after a couple of times he realises he won’t beat you in his attack jet, he might have to switch to the stealth jet; in which case you have removed the OP attack jet and your team could push.

    The BF4 system worked really well, doesn’t have a downside, and always gives you a chance.
  • warslag
    758 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    as for plane abuse, tbh.... there isn't any solutions unless....


    My only solution is to completely remove attack planes/jets and just make fighter planes be in the game... that's it... basically air to air combat and absolutely NO ground support.


    -BF3 was great with jets despite the very OP attack jets.

    -BF4 just failed imo.... stealth jets combat was great (true air to air), but what's the point when the attack jets are literally better in both taking down ground and air vehicles? This was stupid imo. Never enjoyed flying the jets in BF4.

    -And now BF1 is basically similar to BF4 where the attack planes is somewhat, superior on every aspect except agility. It can take down air vehicles, infantry, and tanks. Meanwhile for the fighter planes, it's only good at taking down planes and....... yea that's it.



    Again, removing attack planes/ground support from the game is the only option to stop the "plane abuse" farm killing imo... and keep the fighter planes as it is when it's primary focus is taking down air vehicles and that's it.

    All jets in BF3 were OP. The team with the best pilot always won.

    I’m BF4 the stealth jetvis the top dog but the attack jet has more killing potential. This meant that if there was a good enemy pilot tearing up your team in the attack jet, you didn’t have to be as good as him to beat him; just take the stealth jet. And if after a couple of times he realises he won’t beat you in his attack jet, he might have to switch to the stealth jet; in which case you have removed the OP attack jet and your team could push.

    The BF4 system worked really well, doesn’t have a downside, and always gives you a chance.


    This is exactly why Battlefield is going down the plughole.

    If your team has the same vehicle as that good player on the other team and still can't take him out then he has earned his supremacy.

    For players to have a rock-paper-scissors solution to get rid of him is what has changed the character of Battlefield and it's hard to respect the sort of player that feels the need for this kind of 'way out'.

    People who regularly have good scores in vehicles will tell you how they have been kicked or banned from servers.

    I remember being vote-kicked once on Paracel Storm during a superb kill-streak, and added automatically banned from a massive list of servers. Nobody who voted gives a damn of course.

    Most of these ways of hindering players who have learnt to use vehicles effectively are unscrupulous at the very least.

    It's just a witch-hunt and I think it's shameful that the devs go along with it.
  • madman001able
    483 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Shall i fetch the torches and pitch forks?
  • Turban_Legend80
    4241 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited October 12
    warslag wrote: »
    as for plane abuse, tbh.... there isn't any solutions unless....


    My only solution is to completely remove attack planes/jets and just make fighter planes be in the game... that's it... basically air to air combat and absolutely NO ground support.


    -BF3 was great with jets despite the very OP attack jets.

    -BF4 just failed imo.... stealth jets combat was great (true air to air), but what's the point when the attack jets are literally better in both taking down ground and air vehicles? This was stupid imo. Never enjoyed flying the jets in BF4.

    -And now BF1 is basically similar to BF4 where the attack planes is somewhat, superior on every aspect except agility. It can take down air vehicles, infantry, and tanks. Meanwhile for the fighter planes, it's only good at taking down planes and....... yea that's it.



    Again, removing attack planes/ground support from the game is the only option to stop the "plane abuse" farm killing imo... and keep the fighter planes as it is when it's primary focus is taking down air vehicles and that's it.

    All jets in BF3 were OP. The team with the best pilot always won.

    I’m BF4 the stealth jetvis the top dog but the attack jet has more killing potential. This meant that if there was a good enemy pilot tearing up your team in the attack jet, you didn’t have to be as good as him to beat him; just take the stealth jet. And if after a couple of times he realises he won’t beat you in his attack jet, he might have to switch to the stealth jet; in which case you have removed the OP attack jet and your team could push.

    The BF4 system worked really well, doesn’t have a downside, and always gives you a chance.


    This is exactly why Battlefield is going down the plughole.

    If your team has the same vehicle as that good player on the other team and still can't take him out then he has earned his supremacy.

    For players to have a rock-paper-scissors solution to get rid of him is what has changed the character of Battlefield and it's hard to respect the sort of player that feels the need for this kind of 'way out'.

    People who regularly have good scores in vehicles will tell you how they have been kicked or banned from servers.

    I remember being vote-kicked once on Paracel Storm during a superb kill-streak, and added automatically banned from a massive list of servers. Nobody who voted gives a damn of course.

    Most of these ways of hindering players who have learnt to use vehicles effectively are unscrupulous at the very least.

    It's just a witch-hunt and I think it's shameful that the devs go along with it.

    Oh please, “earned his superiority” in a video game?

    So you were fine with BF3 Jets?
    And do you presume because I think this way I don’t do well in vehicles?

    How is having a air to air combat jet better at air to air than the attack jet a bad thing? Who exactly does it hinder?

    Edit: oh ok, I see why you think that way. You were an attack jet enthusiast in BF4.
    Post edited by Turban_Legend80 on
  • Kongo030
    122 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    We're talking about edge cases here imho. In general BF has a pretty fair balance adding counters to strong weapon systems. These top notch players can dominate especially in a squad and you can hardly prevent that. I bet they put a lot of effort in balancing games and teams but there's no silver bullet.
    If you'd introduce ranked games you might remove all or most top notch players from casual games. Don't know if Incursions had an effect for example but imho that shouldn't be a separate game but just a game mode.
  • -Antares65z
    1174 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited October 12
    @-Antares65z wrote
    How has BF become an infantry game?.
    64 players + 2 tanks + 2 planes on small/medieum size maps is an infantry game with some vehicles. Most of the maps in BF1 don't even have 2 tanks.
    6 out of 8 maps in BFV will probably have the same infantry/vehicle ratio.
    I was not talking about BF4

    What were the planes/tanks ratio in BF3 and BF4?

    The majority of people playing these games are infantry oriented players. Most don't use the planes or tanks. IMO and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, planes ruin this game. They serve little purpose other than an easy means of farming infantry. Air support? Sorry, don't need it. You'd get more balanced rounds with infantry and armor fighting it out, instead of clowns carpet bombing objectives and posting ridiculous K/D scores. If you want planes in the game, how about turning on friendly fire on just planes so that when they carpet bomb an objective, they risk killing their own team mates? Might make them think twice about their tactics. Planes with good pilots create imbalance and take the fun out of the game for the majority of the players. When you see pilots posting scores like 75-5, you definitely have a problem with OP vehicles and imbalanced rounds. Granted Scouts hill humping and arty truck campers out of bounds don't help balance either.
  • staRS-SirBob
    2029 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited October 13
    @Antares65z wrote;
    The majority of people playing these games are infantry oriented players.
    Most of the player base talks like BF started with BF3, but BF changed a lot with BF3 and is far from what BF used to be.
    And yes most players are infantry oriented, but that just only confirms my claim that BF has become an infantry game with a few vehicles.
    BF used to be a vehicle game on huge maps before BC2. There was a reason why people either played BF or Cod. That changed with BC2.
    Planes don't go 75-5 in CQ. In operation maybe, I don't play that. Most can't even break 25 kills.
    Post edited by staRS-SirBob on
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