BF 5 Managed to have the weakest bolt action rifles of the genre??

Comments

  • trip1ex
    3503 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Mystriall wrote: »
    Gforce81 wrote: »

    Just to clarify where I stand on the issue: I've never intended to argue that I feel the rifles are weak and need to be much better. I've never meant to imply that being proficient with a rifle shouldn't take hundreds of hours of practice.

    I DO agree, that high proficiency with any weapon in this game should take many hours of practice to do well with. My argument isn't that the rifles weak; its that all the other weapon types take considerably less time and practice to do comparably well with.

    As it stands now: We have rifles where you need to be aiming carefully for the head if you want that OHK. I'm not saying I want any sweetspot back or anything, its just the fact. You'll need to pop that dome to drop anyone in a quick fashion, and the closer they are, the higher the stakes get.

    We have rifles that have more drop, more scope sway, and more lead needed to meet the target. I'm not saying any of this is BAD, but there simply isn't a similar analog in the other weapon types.

    Rifles require all of the above hard work, practice, time put in with the weapon to be of any considerable benefit. OR you could just grab the STG and have instant success to the same rate.

    If rifles are so tough to master, I don't see why that shouldn't be the case with full auto weapons across the board as well. The "recoil" I've seen for the STG and similar weapons is a joke. Like that pathetically small recoil is supposed to be any balance. They've brought tap-firing back and weapons like these are much, MUCH better at extending themselves past their supposed "effective range"

    I know its a hot topic, but this is a reason why I actually did like the RBD in BF1. It created more of a hard-stop of the effective range of all the Assault Zombies who aren't able to do anything but W + M1 in the direction of the enemy. I've never liked the blending of effective ranges, and it's always been a major complaint about mine in past BF games.

    As soon as RBD is out of the equation, any variety just dissolves out of the game. Just grab the fastest ROF, full auto weapon with the most mild/moderate recoil you can find, and never touch anything else. It waaaaaaaay too easily lends itself to this "path of least resistance" where most of the playerbase says "dang, why am I even bothering to try and learn or use any of these other weapons that are kicking my butt when I can just superglue my STG into my hands and be in the top 5 every single match?"

    Tl;dr I'm not saying that rifles shouldn't take lots of practice and work to make effective. But when you compare that to how brain dead easy it is for most other weapon types to operate without jumping through arbitrary hoops because (for whatever vague reason) players are unable to put away their prejudice for Scout/Recon, it starts to smell like month old fish.

    Yes, this i can understand. But at the same time, this is how it always has been as far as i can remember in the battlefield series, or any other game for that matter. In CS:GO, the sniper, at least for me, is the most difficult gun to play with. In PUBG, for me, the sniper is the most difficult gun to play with. In BF1942, without a doubt, the sniper is the most difficult gun to play with, same goes for most other BF titles too i bet. Even BF1, if you look at it as a whole, though the sweetspot has made it alot easier for many players. if you are not within the sweetspot range, the sniper is more difficult, at least for me, than any other gun.

    I don't know of any game, where the sniper is easier to use than any other AR/SMG/LMG etc.. guns. But this is ofcourse due to high fire rate, more bullets and the fact that you get up close and personal. Thus more room for error.

    But at the same time in BF1, i think one of the reasons why there are alot of snipers, is that some get too beaten up at close range in the other classes, so they switch to sniper to try and get those easy sweetspot kills and stay away from trouble. As you stated, it's the "path of least resistence" issue there aswell. And then there are does who get tired of being sniped from random locations who choose sniper to get them back, which i do sometimes.

    Yeah people play sniper because it's more relaxing. You are out of danger playing as sniper. You can take your time. There's no immediate threat.

    I would say sniping in BF1 is drop dead easy though.
  • theONEFORCE
    2687 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Just remember everyone, all of those sparkly dots you see lining the hills of BF1, they are just waiting for the moment they can go down to the objective and participate. They might as well have signs that say, "Put me in coach". Its not like they're up there so they can safely try to get one hit kills with little to no risk. As a matter of fact, I've been killed a whopping 0 times by the M1903 Experimental since it was buffed and the M1903 Sniper is the scout rifle I get probably killed by most because I have no chance of seeing the person shooting it in their sweet spot range.

    There was a picture that dice devs posted of a pie chart of the classes in the BFV beta that were playing from spawn. Guess which one took up most of the pie chart? Yup, the one that needs stronger weapons so they can "play the objective" and "help the team". Right. Even with the guns nerfed, they choose to sit it out and offer even less assistance to the team because now they can't even get pity kills.
  • MarxistDictator
    4306 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    But remember it was part of Dice's diabolical plot to push snipers to the hills. This is what happens if we don't make automatic guns do 5 damage a bullet so they can have the same TTK as the Kar98k hitting two bodyshots.

    Don't even mention headshots, no one gets those even somewhat consistently the planets have to be in alignment on a blood moon for that sort of wizardry.
  • Alphazetamu
    681 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    There was a picture that dice devs posted of a pie chart of the classes in the BFV beta that were playing from spawn. Guess which one took up most of the pie chart? Yup, the one that needs stronger weapons so they can "play the objective" and "help the team". Right. Even with the guns nerfed, they choose to sit it out and offer even less assistance to the team because now they can't even get pity kills.

    Or maybe they just want to try out bolt actions, because, you know, immersion, or sumthin. It's about the only thing that is ww2 in the game.
  • theONEFORCE
    2687 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    There was a picture that dice devs posted of a pie chart of the classes in the BFV beta that were playing from spawn. Guess which one took up most of the pie chart? Yup, the one that needs stronger weapons so they can "play the objective" and "help the team". Right. Even with the guns nerfed, they choose to sit it out and offer even less assistance to the team because now they can't even get pity kills.

    Or maybe they just want to try out bolt actions, because, you know, immersion, or sumthin. It's about the only thing that is ww2 in the game.

    No, its because they're scared of dying in a video game.
  • Sixclicks
    3922 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Perhaps it was just a visibility issue but I was having trouble seeing enemies even in close quarters with the ZH iron sights in beta and when I was seeing them it felt like they were literally avoiding the iron sights with that ridiculous sideways mobility BF soldiers have.

    Perhaps it will be better on launch with soldiers standing out more from their backround.

    It felt like the irons had too much zoom to me. Like I was using 2x irons from BF1 while I'd prefer 1.25x for close ranges. The color of the iron sights on a lot of weapons did blend in with the background a lot though. Still, you'll get absolutely murdered in a head on fight against any other class's primary weapon type in CQB while using the ZH-29. It's really more of a mid ranged rifle. I'm hoping the RSC is balanced similar to BF1 so that we have a better performing close ranged rifle. I have no idea how they're going to do the AL8 yet though.
  • Hawxxeye
    1879 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited October 11
    Just remember everyone, all of those sparkly dots you see lining the hills of BF1, they are just waiting for the moment they can go down to the objective and participate. They might as well have signs that say, "Put me in coach". Its not like they're up there so they can safely try to get one hit kills with little to no risk. As a matter of fact, I've been killed a whopping 0 times by the M1903 Experimental since it was buffed and the M1903 Sniper is the scout rifle I get probably killed by most because I have no chance of seeing the person shooting it in their sweet spot range.

    There was a picture that dice devs posted of a pie chart of the classes in the BFV beta that were playing from spawn. Guess which one took up most of the pie chart? Yup, the one that needs stronger weapons so they can "play the objective" and "help the team". Right. Even with the guns nerfed, they choose to sit it out and offer even less assistance to the team because now they can't even get pity kills.
    Yeah it feels weird to be on the top 9% kills on the 1903 experimental with 79 kills.
    .
    I have been killed by it a few times too

    I do not get what you are saying about the nerfed guns. If their guns are nerfed they have even less reason to risk death by getting closer. Only nutters like me who do not care if they die a lot for their team come close
    Post edited by Hawxxeye on
  • theONEFORCE
    2687 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Just remember everyone, all of those sparkly dots you see lining the hills of BF1, they are just waiting for the moment they can go down to the objective and participate. They might as well have signs that say, "Put me in coach". Its not like they're up there so they can safely try to get one hit kills with little to no risk. As a matter of fact, I've been killed a whopping 0 times by the M1903 Experimental since it was buffed and the M1903 Sniper is the scout rifle I get probably killed by most because I have no chance of seeing the person shooting it in their sweet spot range.

    There was a picture that dice devs posted of a pie chart of the classes in the BFV beta that were playing from spawn. Guess which one took up most of the pie chart? Yup, the one that needs stronger weapons so they can "play the objective" and "help the team". Right. Even with the guns nerfed, they choose to sit it out and offer even less assistance to the team because now they can't even get pity kills.
    Yeah it feels weird to be on the top 9% kills on the 1903 experimental with 79 kills.
    .
    I have been killed by it a few times too

    I do not get what you are saying about the nerfed guns. If their guns are nerfed they have even less reason to risk death by getting closer. Only nutters like me who do not care if they die a lot for their team come close

    My point is that the common argument is that the snipers you see littered around the back of the map are just aggressive snipers waiting for Dice to see the light and give them the right tools to live out their destiny. But even when their weapons are made less effective to the point that they probably weren't getting many kills from spawn, they still chose to sit back there because they are another name for a cat. BF1 catered to that type of player and thank god Dice realized what a giant mistake that was.

    And for those that actually want to play scout in a skillful way, its unfortunate that the class you like attracts the lowest common denominator in a way that gives them the biggest incentive to be useless of all four classes.

    And the next thing that will be brought up is how the other classes attract bad players as well, which may be true, but at least they can be accidentally helpful by dropping ammo, health or spinning around in circles spraying down weakened enemies. I'll take them any day over the knob scouts that put their trip mines down under the feet of teammates to accidentally make the enemies explosives more effective while they are on their way out to a camp spot.
  • madman001able
    425 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited October 11
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefield/images/2/2a/M95RangeBC2.png/revision/latest?cb=20120415080733

    OHK was 20m only 25m with magnum

    M95 also did not damage tanks.

    Lets remember the game correctly next time.

    Also if you literally want an automatic rifle play a different class for crying out loud. That comment is literally proof this camp doesn't care about the design of the game or balance.
    I will say it once more. When I play recon/scout, I play it because my team needs spotting from the class exclusive gadgets there would be no other reason to subject myself to the most stigmatized class of the series.
    In that end some of us claimed that the class is lacking in the weapon department in order to be able to defend itself and contribute enough to the objective attack/defense.

    To that end I will keep pointing that out until something happens or until we get an alternative special forces class that gets the close range recon gadgets like the flares and the beacon.

    This guy crack me up ^^^ lmfao. Better not play the recon class folks! You will be blacklisted by society, and you and your family will be forced out of your home to live in the gutter!
  • madman001able
    425 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    There was a picture that dice devs posted of a pie chart of the classes in the BFV beta that were playing from spawn. Guess which one took up most of the pie chart? Yup, the one that needs stronger weapons so they can "play the objective" and "help the team". Right. Even with the guns nerfed, they choose to sit it out and offer even less assistance to the team because now they can't even get pity kills.

    Or maybe they just want to try out bolt actions, because, you know, immersion, or sumthin. It's about the only thing that is ww2 in the game.

    No, its because they're scared of dying in a video game.

    No, it's because recon is not a CQB class.
  • MarxistDictator
    4306 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    There was a picture that dice devs posted of a pie chart of the classes in the BFV beta that were playing from spawn. Guess which one took up most of the pie chart? Yup, the one that needs stronger weapons so they can "play the objective" and "help the team". Right. Even with the guns nerfed, they choose to sit it out and offer even less assistance to the team because now they can't even get pity kills.

    Or maybe they just want to try out bolt actions, because, you know, immersion, or sumthin. It's about the only thing that is ww2 in the game.

    No, its because they're scared of dying in a video game.

    No, it's because recon is not a CQB class.

    Other classes are if that role is needed.

    Or do we just hate the class system in general, that's what it's starting to sound like.
  • madman001able
    425 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    It is pretty obvious at this point that there will be a spec ops class coming in the near future. This class will most likely cater to these whiners.
  • Hawxxeye
    1879 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited October 12
    There was a picture that dice devs posted of a pie chart of the classes in the BFV beta that were playing from spawn. Guess which one took up most of the pie chart? Yup, the one that needs stronger weapons so they can "play the objective" and "help the team". Right. Even with the guns nerfed, they choose to sit it out and offer even less assistance to the team because now they can't even get pity kills.

    Or maybe they just want to try out bolt actions, because, you know, immersion, or sumthin. It's about the only thing that is ww2 in the game.

    No, its because they're scared of dying in a video game.

    No, it's because recon is not a CQB class.

    Other classes are if that role is needed.

    Or do we just hate the class system in general, that's what it's starting to sound like.
    I do not know anymore...the way the class is balanced makes it feel obsolete as far as its weapon is concerned. Nobody needs these guys sitting 100+ meters away on their belly and if they get closer in mid to close range then the other classes are more suitable.
    The only lucrative thing about them is how they can help their team know the locations of enemies in an area for a few seconds.

    So what is the point of the class weapon wise other than to say " yeah we also have sniper rifles if you like"?

    This guy crack me up ^^^ lmfao. Better not play the recon class folks! You will be blacklisted by society, and you and your family will be forced out of your home to live in the gutter!
    I am so happy that I helped you laugh by giving you the chance to build a funny straw parody of what I meant for your amusement :wink:

    More seriously, you must have seen how recons are hated by their side cause most of them pick a convenient point at the distance and just do their own thing independently from their team. And the other team also hates them them cause they randomly die to them when they let their guard down and stop moving like angry ants for a few secs.
  • Sixclicks
    3922 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    More seriously, you must have seen how recons are hated by their side cause most of them pick a convenient point at the distance and just do their own thing independently from their team. And the other team also hates them them cause they randomly die to them when they let their guard down and stop moving like angry ants for a few secs.

    Even I, a scout main in BF1, hate worthless hillhumping scouts/recons.
  • Mystriall
    255 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    It would be interesting to see DICE give out some information regarding the actual effectiveness of any given gun/class at any given number of ranges. I.E. a scenario analysis of the different guns. I would think this is something they do when they work on balancing out the weapons. So it would be fun to see the actual numbers, and some more variables. Than simply basing our speculations upon firerate, min/max damage and general assumtions based on alpha/beta and previous titles.
    -
    That being said, remember than balancing the weapons and classes, doesn't mean making all classes equal at all ranges, and all guns equally effective at any range. They are supposed to have their different strengths and weaknesses, effective ranges. I'm curious as to see if on a map like hamada, the sniper might shine more. It certainly helps if they haven't clustered all the flags in a circle right next to each other. I think that's somewhat of the problem on the maps so far. They are catered towards close ranged combat, very compact. Which isn't ideal for a sniper class. Although they still have the ability to do more than spotting for their team in my opinion :)
    -
    And i know, i know, it's recon not sniper. But in my eyes they will always be the same, sorrry for my ignorance.
  • Hawxxeye
    1879 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Well until any changes are made I will assume that DICE intends for the recons to earn a proper weapon by first killing an enemy of another class and taking that persons weapon as their own...every single time they spawn.

    PS: I do not know if you can pick weapons from dead allies as well in BF5 but it would make things easier :D
  • madman001able
    425 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    There was a picture that dice devs posted of a pie chart of the classes in the BFV beta that were playing from spawn. Guess which one took up most of the pie chart? Yup, the one that needs stronger weapons so they can "play the objective" and "help the team". Right. Even with the guns nerfed, they choose to sit it out and offer even less assistance to the team because now they can't even get pity kills.

    Or maybe they just want to try out bolt actions, because, you know, immersion, or sumthin. It's about the only thing that is ww2 in the game.

    No, its because they're scared of dying in a video game.

    No, it's because recon is not a CQB class.

    Other classes are if that role is needed.

    Or do we just hate the class system in general, that's what it's starting to sound like.
    I do not know anymore...the way the class is balanced makes it feel obsolete as far as its weapon is concerned. Nobody needs these guys sitting 100+ meters away on their belly and if they get closer in mid to close range then the other classes are more suitable.
    The only lucrative thing about them is how they can help their team know the locations of enemies in an area for a few seconds.

    So what is the point of the class weapon wise other than to say " yeah we also have sniper rifles if you like"?

    This guy crack me up ^^^ lmfao. Better not play the recon class folks! You will be blacklisted by society, and you and your family will be forced out of your home to live in the gutter!
    I am so happy that I helped you laugh by giving you the chance to build a funny straw parody of what I meant for your amusement :wink:

    More seriously, you must have seen how recons are hated by their side cause most of them pick a convenient point at the distance and just do their own thing independently from their team. And the other team also hates them them cause they randomly die to them when they let their guard down and stop moving like angry ants for a few secs.

    If you look into how snipers operate, and what types of psychological impacts they have on not only the enemy, but also their own troops, you will find yourself amused by what is being said in most of these anti-recon class post. I just add abit of fuel to the fire here and there lol.
  • madman001able
    425 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Mystriall wrote: »
    It would be interesting to see DICE give out some information regarding the actual effectiveness of any given gun/class at any given number of ranges. I.E. a scenario analysis of the different guns. I would think this is something they do when they work on balancing out the weapons. So it would be fun to see the actual numbers, and some more variables. Than simply basing our speculations upon firerate, min/max damage and general assumtions based on alpha/beta and previous titles.
    -
    That being said, remember than balancing the weapons and classes, doesn't mean making all classes equal at all ranges, and all guns equally effective at any range. They are supposed to have their different strengths and weaknesses, effective ranges. I'm curious as to see if on a map like hamada, the sniper might shine more. It certainly helps if they haven't clustered all the flags in a circle right next to each other. I think that's somewhat of the problem on the maps so far. They are catered towards close ranged combat, very compact. Which isn't ideal for a sniper class. Although they still have the ability to do more than spotting for their team in my opinion :)
    -
    And i know, i know, it's recon not sniper. But in my eyes they will always be the same, sorrry for my ignorance.

    Recon is literally 90% of what a SNIPER does lol. 👍
  • madman001able
    425 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I personally am very curious to see what other combat roles get introduced to the class. The combat role page for recon had ALOT of empty slots so it is gonna get interesting.
  • Hawxxeye
    1879 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited October 12
    Mystriall wrote: »
    I'm curious as to see if on a map like hamada, the sniper might shine more.
    They will definitely shine more... due to the glints from the high power scopes. Perhaps we will get complaints of people seeing entire constellations on the ground instead of the sky and blame DICE for a bugged skybox
    If you look into how snipers operate, and what types of psychological impacts they have on not only the enemy, but also their own troops, you will find yourself amused by what is being said in most of these anti-recon class post. I just add abit of fuel to the fire here and there lol.
    Please do handle nuclear fuels with more care. :(
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