Attrition video -- Levelcap

Comments


  • No one does the thinking for me I'm very hard headed. It may help the skilled players, but is this relevant to ammo attrition in any way? I'm not seeing the connection.

    I thought the argument was against attrition in general (including health). I was pointing out how the assumption in DICE's premise was benefitting the "skilled players" pre determinedly. I was showing how the premise could go both ways.

    But if you are just focusing on ammo attrition, then I somewhat see your point. Again, I just prefer the novelty of it and want a chance to experiment with it for an entire game's lifespan to see what happens.


  • foff667
    573 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I agree it needs to be changed. For reference towards the end of bf4 I would consider myself a very good player and even with the ammo perk and 250+ rounds using a carbine I would often run out of ammo. 80-100 rounds and minimal rounds being picked up via the attrition mechanic just isn't enough as an assault player, same with medic.
  • Sixclicks
    3948 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I don't really care about health attrition. I'm fine with it. Ammo attrition is the only part that's kind of dumb.
  • Mystriall
    261 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    If you play on PC, and in Europe, come play with me and i shall grant you unlimited ammo :)
  • Sixclicks
    3948 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Mystriall wrote: »
    If you play on PC, and in Europe, come play with me and i shall grant you unlimited ammo :)

    I'm gonna try squading up with @bran1986 and @MachoFantast1c0 . We're all on PC. Split between US East and EU though. Not sure if they've got others in mind for the 4th or not.
  • m1k3ol
    664 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Moderator
    edited October 12
    I prefer the simplicity of going on a flank getting the drop on 8 enemies and not having to worry about running out of ammo. Ammo scarcity in certain situations limits what a player can do. And it's a shame.

    Hmm, no it doesn't?

    If you're living longer, and getting down on ammo, that means you're shooting, if you're shooting and living then you're killing enemies, if you're killing enemies then you are also getting the ammo drops they leave on their corpses...which resupplies your ammo pool...

    So, basically, the example you have been using on the thread only applies to camping solo (except for support, of course), killing and not moving, and that seems ok to be punished, to be honest...

    (sounds a lot like camping a top floor on C flag in Rotterdam)

    If you're on the move, killing enemies and getting their pickups (you can also get the pouches they throw and didn't use, besides the ammo they leave when killed), then you are not running out of ammo, unless you purposely avoid it...
  • Mystriall
    261 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Mystriall wrote: »
    If you play on PC, and in Europe, come play with me and i shall grant you unlimited ammo :)

    I'm gonna try squading up with @bran1986 and @MachoFantast1c0 . We're all on PC. Split between US East and EU though. Not sure if they've got others in mind for the 4th or not.

    The time difference will make it harder to find a time where all are available won't it?
  • DyD_Marina
    279 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited October 12
    m1k3ol wrote: »
    I prefer the simplicity of going on a flank getting the drop on 8 enemies and not having to worry about running out of ammo. Ammo scarcity in certain situations limits what a player can do. And it's a shame.

    Hmm, no it doesn't?

    If you're living longer, and getting down on ammo, that means you're shooting, if you're shooting and living then you're killing enemies, if you're killing enemies then you are also getting the ammo drops they leave on their corpses...which resupplies your ammo pool...

    So, basically, the example you have been using on the thread only applies to camping solo (except for support, of course), killing and not moving, and that seems ok to be punished, to be honest...

    (sounds a lot like camping a top floor on C flag in Rotterdam)

    If you're on the move, killing enemies and getting their pickups (you can also get the pouches they throw and didn't use, besides the ammo they leave when killed), then you are not running out of ammo, unless you purposely avoid it...

    This is the problem, many people simple avoid to take ammo from corpse or even from supply station, they are too much on the move and pay little to none attention around.

    Then they blame the Attrition System, when is most of the time a player fault.
  • MachoFantast1c0
    1143 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Mystriall wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Mystriall wrote: »
    If you play on PC, and in Europe, come play with me and i shall grant you unlimited ammo :)

    I'm gonna try squading up with @bran1986 and @MachoFantast1c0 . We're all on PC. Split between US East and EU though. Not sure if they've got others in mind for the 4th or not.

    The time difference will make it harder to find a time where all are available won't it?

    It does complicate things yes. I tend to play until midnight, so weekends are pretty easy to match up. Bran gets on early enough on afternoons that we squad up relatively often on weekdays as well.
  • Hawxxeye
    1901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Mystriall wrote: »
    If you play on PC, and in Europe, come play with me and i shall grant you unlimited ammo :)

    I'm gonna try squading up with @bran1986 and @MachoFantast1c0 . We're all on PC. Split between US East and EU though. Not sure if they've got others in mind for the 4th or not.
    I on PC on EU if interested
  • madman001able
    483 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited October 12
    😆😢😠🙂.
  • Sixclicks
    3948 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited October 12
    Mystriall wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Mystriall wrote: »
    If you play on PC, and in Europe, come play with me and i shall grant you unlimited ammo :)

    I'm gonna try squading up with @bran1986 and @MachoFantast1c0 . We're all on PC. Split between US East and EU though. Not sure if they've got others in mind for the 4th or not.

    The time difference will make it harder to find a time where all are available won't it?

    Probably. But I'm usually up most of the night on weekends. Although I tend to go out to the bar from 9pm to 4am EST (12am to 9am UK time) on Friday and Saturday night. But then I'm usually up until 7 or 8 am EST (12pm or 1pm UK) after that. Of course I could instead get up earlier on the weekends and be up between 10am to 9pm EST (3pm to 2am UK).

    Once I eventually find a job (currently unemployed), I'd generally be available from 5pm to 12am EST (10pm to 5am UK) during the week.

    So yeah, it could certainly be an issue. But I've played with MachoFantast1c0 a few times in the past and he's EU.

    It looks like your time could potentially line up well with MachoFantast1c0 and Hawxxeye though.
  • madman001able
    483 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited October 12
    Do you know what the definition of insanity is?
    -Vaas
  • madman001able
    483 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »

    Because it's a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER . Shooting skill is integral. Traversing to the next supply crate is NOT a skill. Maybe if we put two rats on the map and one piece of cheddar on the supply crate, whichever gets to it first is the more skillful rat.
    Skill isn't the only thing involved. Decision-making is in play. You should ask the devs for a game where there is only one map that is entirely flat and no objects in it, where everyone always has the same gun. Then you will have a pure skill game.

    Traversing isn't a skill, but going there to be prepared is an aptitude.
    No because if person A has better gun skills and better awareness than player B, whatever secondary skills player B has are just that, secondary skills.

    I feel bad for you. You are trapped inside some idealogy that has never existed. Every FPS has secondary factors that can determine whether or not someone wins a gun fight: like health, ammo, position advantage, team help.

    "I'm more skilled". Ok. And you are playing a team game with uncontrollable variables. Have fun projecting that ideology on reality and demanding it go your way.

    Fine. We disagree on the definition of 'skill'. I thought under the controlled confines of first person shooter, skill was easy to define but I guess not. Forget skill. I don't even know what the central point of our discussion is anymore. Let's get in to the nitty gritty:

    Player A:
    4 k/d, 3 kills per minute, 500 hours in the game.

    Player B:
    0.8 k/d, 0.5 kills per minute, 500 hours in the game.

    1) How would *you* define and characterize these players in terms of performance in Battlefield?

    2) Who is more likely to be affected by ammo scarcity? Meaning whose stats and specifically kills per minute are more elastic to the introduction of ammo scarcity?

    If you answered anything other than 'Both' to #2 then we agree that the dev team introduced a mechanic that affects one group of players more so than it does another. In other words, it reduces the skill gap makes things just a little easier for one player group at the expense of another player group.

    Some think this is ok and call it a challenge. Yes it is a challenge and we'll all adapt. Doesnt change the fact that the devs introduced a game mechanic that they knew would negatively affect one group and not affect the other as much.

    I dont see how it makes things easier for one group than the other. Player B is under 1 K/D...I don't think they will agree that they have anything easy.


    Player B is more unlikely to run out of ammo before being killed, and as a result the scarcity affects them less.

    I'm not convinced that it necessarily makes things more difficult for Player A... but it does create limitations to viable engagements. If we're talking purely about being a slayer, then your slaying potential is hindered by the limited ammo. Whether that's good or bad is really up to the player, and what kind of experience they want.

    The big issue for me is that I simply just found it tedious to deal with. I love the ammo depots as they encourage players to stick around objectives, but the frequency of their interaction became a chore. It also severely limited suppression and bullet penetration for any role outside of support... I found that to be fairly dull as well.

    Well seeing as how support carries the lmg's and mmg's it is literally their job to suppress the enemy. The bullet penetration works for EVERY class, not only support. And why are you guys still whining about the ammo when they have already made changes to the starting amount and how much you can pick up off of corpses? There will also be ways to resupply that we have not even seen yet, like the towable supply stations. Go find somthing that is actually broken (if you can) and cry over that.
  • Hawxxeye
    1901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    I was expecting the biggest problem with different regions to be considered to be the ping instead of the time difference.
  • Sixclicks
    3948 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited October 12
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    I was expecting the biggest problem with different regions to be considered to be the ping instead of the time difference.

    I've played on EU servers a lot in the past. There's more of them up than US servers in BF1. Especially German servers. At least during the times I was usually on. It's not as fluid as playing in my own region, but it's certainly still within the realm of playable.
  • Mystriall
    261 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Mystriall wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Mystriall wrote: »
    If you play on PC, and in Europe, come play with me and i shall grant you unlimited ammo :)

    I'm gonna try squading up with @bran1986 and @MachoFantast1c0 . We're all on PC. Split between US East and EU though. Not sure if they've got others in mind for the 4th or not.

    The time difference will make it harder to find a time where all are available won't it?

    Probably. But I'm usually up most of the night on weekends. Although I tend to go out to the bar from 9pm to 4am EST (12am to 9am UK time) on Friday and Saturday night. But then I'm usually up until 7 or 8 am EST (12pm or 1pm UK) after that. Of course I could instead get up earlier on the weekends and be up between 10am to 9pm EST (3pm to 2am UK).

    Once I eventually find a job (currently unemployed), I'd generally be available from 5pm to 12am EST (10pm to 5am UK) during the week.

    So yeah, it could certainly be an issue. But I've played with MachoFantast1c0 a few times in the past and he's EU.

    It looks like your time could potentially line up well with MachoFantast1c0 and Hawxxeye though.

    Ye, I'm in central europe so within europe in my case it's only 1-2 hour difference between most countries. But i guess it is managable either way, i have played with people from the US aswell. But not as much because of the difference.
  • MachoFantast1c0
    1143 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    I was expecting the biggest problem with different regions to be considered to be the ping instead of the time difference.

    I've played on EU servers a lot in the past. There's more of them up than US servers in BF1. Especially German servers. At least during the times I was usually on. It's not as fluid as playing in my own region, but it's certainly still within the realm of playable.

    In BF1 a ping of 90-110 is perfectly playable, even if not as responsive with respect to hit markers, kill confirmations etc. As long there is no significant jitter, it's neither an advantage nor disadvantage. However, in BFV Alpha/Beta it was a different story, I was constantly getting one-framed to a degree I just had to quit. I hope the netcode pass they are doing will result in considerable improvement in this regard, otherwise it's gonna be a pain to cross the ocean.
  • Hawxxeye
    1901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    I was expecting the biggest problem with different regions to be considered to be the ping instead of the time difference.

    I've played on EU servers a lot in the past. There's more of them up than US servers in BF1. Especially German servers. At least during the times I was usually on. It's not as fluid as playing in my own region, but it's certainly still within the realm of playable.

    In BF1 a ping of 90-110 is perfectly playable, even if not as responsive with respect to hit markers, kill confirmations etc. As long there is no significant jitter, it's neither an advantage nor disadvantage. However, in BFV Alpha/Beta it was a different story, I was constantly getting one-framed to a degree I just had to quit. I hope the netcode pass they are doing will result in considerable improvement in this regard, otherwise it's gonna be a pain to cross the ocean.
    They did say they found the problem in the netcode.
    The question is why could they not find such an obvious problem in internal testing?
  • Sixclicks
    3948 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    I was expecting the biggest problem with different regions to be considered to be the ping instead of the time difference.

    I've played on EU servers a lot in the past. There's more of them up than US servers in BF1. Especially German servers. At least during the times I was usually on. It's not as fluid as playing in my own region, but it's certainly still within the realm of playable.

    In BF1 a ping of 90-110 is perfectly playable, even if not as responsive with respect to hit markers, kill confirmations etc. As long there is no significant jitter, it's neither an advantage nor disadvantage. However, in BFV Alpha/Beta it was a different story, I was constantly getting one-framed to a degree I just had to quit. I hope the netcode pass they are doing will result in considerable improvement in this regard, otherwise it's gonna be a pain to cross the ocean.

    I'm usually within that range on EU servers. Sometimes I'll get killed around a corner, but it's not too big of deal or super common.
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