Weekly Debrief

Attrition system

Comments

  • MONEYPYR0
    828 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    people think skilled players will play worse, but I doubt it. skilled players are also usually the smart players. the bad players will take forever to learn flanking and will just get run over by the ttk.

    i gaurantee everyone will perform proportionally to their last BF, relative to where the game is in its lifespan.

    As someone who plays exclusively Hardcore in BF4, not having health regeneration (at least, not much in Attrition) is something I'm already used to, so it's not big deal. Less ammo also isnt horrible, since you can build resupply stations, and Support players exist. Even my friend who wasnt very good during the beta liked the new system, and he was able to do decent as a Medic, even if his K/D wasn't great.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5483 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    rainkloud wrote: »
    I personally don't like attrition and think it belongs in hard core instead of core. DICE is tweaking it but I'd rather they just remove it from core and give us the Battlefield experience that we've had for many years.

    The worst thing about attrition is the fact that even Dice admits it's been made to punish good players while regular potatoes won't feel big differences. Which is a bad way to make a game if you ask me. I just hope there will be lots of complaints on release and things will be tweaked even further.

    A thoroughly revolting lie and the absence of source to back that statement up should be enough for a moderator to take action against you. Spreading false info with the intent of promoting a gameplay preference is craven and reprehensible and does nothing but have a detrimental effect on the community. The attrition system is designed to better reflect a battlefield experience and, more importantly, reduce the impact of damage negation. Your ability to sponge damage will be reduced and you will no longer be able to simply ignore damage you have sustained. There will be sufficient consequences whereas there was a dearth before.

    Are you being serious, son?
    https://www.ea.com/games/battlefield/news/attrition-system-battlefield-5

    The guy he's responding to said DICE said the system punishes good players, while average players wont notice, which is false, and that article says nothing like that. The closest is says to that is, and I quote directly from the article;

    "In fact, if you’re new to Battlefield, you might not even notice the Attrition system; chances are you’ll die before you run out of ammo. New players won’t be punished by the Attrition system, but advanced players need to apply some additional tactical thinking with the slightly raised skill ceiling."

    Thats just stating that the game will require more thought and strategy compared to the previous games, NOT that it will "punish" veteran players. And then new players, having not played a Battlefield game before, wont have any past experience with BFs gameplay from previous titles.

    Again, NOWHERE in that article does it say "Attrition is designed to punish more skilled players from previous Battlefield games".

    But it basically means exactly that but in a pleasant way. because if you know how to play bf games and not die every second minute you WILL feel the attrition on your back. And the question is why? Only because people have experience with the series so the game have to be more challenging for them for unknown reason? HC has always felt to me like a big crutch for people who can't effectively play Normal mode and now both modes are getting mixed together. Don't see how majority of playerbase will like it.
  • MONEYPYR0
    828 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    rainkloud wrote: »
    I personally don't like attrition and think it belongs in hard core instead of core. DICE is tweaking it but I'd rather they just remove it from core and give us the Battlefield experience that we've had for many years.

    The worst thing about attrition is the fact that even Dice admits it's been made to punish good players while regular potatoes won't feel big differences. Which is a bad way to make a game if you ask me. I just hope there will be lots of complaints on release and things will be tweaked even further.

    A thoroughly revolting lie and the absence of source to back that statement up should be enough for a moderator to take action against you. Spreading false info with the intent of promoting a gameplay preference is craven and reprehensible and does nothing but have a detrimental effect on the community. The attrition system is designed to better reflect a battlefield experience and, more importantly, reduce the impact of damage negation. Your ability to sponge damage will be reduced and you will no longer be able to simply ignore damage you have sustained. There will be sufficient consequences whereas there was a dearth before.

    Are you being serious, son?
    https://www.ea.com/games/battlefield/news/attrition-system-battlefield-5

    The guy he's responding to said DICE said the system punishes good players, while average players wont notice, which is false, and that article says nothing like that. The closest is says to that is, and I quote directly from the article;

    "In fact, if you’re new to Battlefield, you might not even notice the Attrition system; chances are you’ll die before you run out of ammo. New players won’t be punished by the Attrition system, but advanced players need to apply some additional tactical thinking with the slightly raised skill ceiling."

    Thats just stating that the game will require more thought and strategy compared to the previous games, NOT that it will "punish" veteran players. And then new players, having not played a Battlefield game before, wont have any past experience with BFs gameplay from previous titles.

    Again, NOWHERE in that article does it say "Attrition is designed to punish more skilled players from previous Battlefield games".

    HC has always felt to me like a big crutch for people who can't effectively play Normal mode and now both modes are getting mixed together. Don't see how majority of playerbase will like it.

    So I guess you liked playing a game mode where 15 shots straight into an enemies back didnt kill them? Hardcore was the better mode, because all weapons were effective, and you didnt have 1 or 2 weapons that were OP, and made all the others obsolete, you didnt have regenerating health, so you couldn't tank a bunch of damage, and not need a Medic, and there was no minimap that made it so once you were spotted, everyone knew where you were.

    Also, DICE still isn't saying that they're punishing returning players with Attrition. If you think thats what they're saying, but "in a nice way", cool, but, you're wrong.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5483 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    rainkloud wrote: »
    I personally don't like attrition and think it belongs in hard core instead of core. DICE is tweaking it but I'd rather they just remove it from core and give us the Battlefield experience that we've had for many years.

    The worst thing about attrition is the fact that even Dice admits it's been made to punish good players while regular potatoes won't feel big differences. Which is a bad way to make a game if you ask me. I just hope there will be lots of complaints on release and things will be tweaked even further.

    A thoroughly revolting lie and the absence of source to back that statement up should be enough for a moderator to take action against you. Spreading false info with the intent of promoting a gameplay preference is craven and reprehensible and does nothing but have a detrimental effect on the community. The attrition system is designed to better reflect a battlefield experience and, more importantly, reduce the impact of damage negation. Your ability to sponge damage will be reduced and you will no longer be able to simply ignore damage you have sustained. There will be sufficient consequences whereas there was a dearth before.

    Are you being serious, son?
    https://www.ea.com/games/battlefield/news/attrition-system-battlefield-5

    The guy he's responding to said DICE said the system punishes good players, while average players wont notice, which is false, and that article says nothing like that. The closest is says to that is, and I quote directly from the article;

    "In fact, if you’re new to Battlefield, you might not even notice the Attrition system; chances are you’ll die before you run out of ammo. New players won’t be punished by the Attrition system, but advanced players need to apply some additional tactical thinking with the slightly raised skill ceiling."

    Thats just stating that the game will require more thought and strategy compared to the previous games, NOT that it will "punish" veteran players. And then new players, having not played a Battlefield game before, wont have any past experience with BFs gameplay from previous titles.

    Again, NOWHERE in that article does it say "Attrition is designed to punish more skilled players from previous Battlefield games".

    HC has always felt to me like a big crutch for people who can't effectively play Normal mode and now both modes are getting mixed together. Don't see how majority of playerbase will like it.

    So I guess you liked playing a game mode where 15 shots straight into an enemies back didnt kill them? Hardcore was the better mode, because all weapons were effective, and you didnt have 1 or 2 weapons that were OP, and made all the others obsolete, you didnt have regenerating health, so you couldn't tank a bunch of damage, and not need a Medic, and there was no minimap that made it so once you were spotted, everyone knew where you were.

    Also, DICE still isn't saying that they're punishing returning players with Attrition. If you think thats what they're saying, but "in a nice way", cool, but, you're wrong.

    So you're basically saying that HC is easier comparing to Normal? So what's so Hardcore about it? Not being able to kill your enemy in couple of hits actually make you think when engagement is possible and when you should back up. And being spotted on minimap prevents corner campers from sitting there forever getting those unaware kills without punishment.
    Attrition affects you only if you're doing good which is extremely weird to me because any game should promote skill and reward players for being effective. But here we're getting completely different approach.
  • Hay-its-dudeman
    364 postsMember Member
    edited November 2018
    people think skilled players will play worse, but I doubt it. skilled players are also usually the smart players. the bad players will take forever to learn flanking and will just get run over by the ttk.

    i gaurantee everyone will perform proportionally to their last BF, relative to where the game is in its lifespan.

    Its not about flanking routes. Its about good players constantly running around the map like chickens searching for ammo or med pack. I was constantly forced to stop whatever I was doing and go searching for ammo instead. Its a very bad practice especially in a game where it takes good 10 bullets to kill somebody if you're really good.

    The main problem is Dice doesn't know what they want BF5 to be. They try to pack mil sim+arcade+tactical shooter elements in one game, and its not gonna work. As someone already said, they better keep this for Hardcore, and leave everything as it was for years.

    I didn't have a problem with this chore. I actually enjoyed it, since most people weren't that willing to do it and they were exploitable for it.

    Everybody will have to adapt, including the newer players. Every new player who sprays and can't tap fire will feel attrition the same way the experienced players will.

    But, besides, we have 3 mags to start with and most of us will get the chore out of the way and get the 4 mags.

    Just change whatever your normal strategy is for a supply station camping one.

    Beating someone at a game isn't just about empowering/enabling yourself: it's also about using the habits of your enemies against them. This game will have very predictable decision making due to attrition.

    edit:
    But, actually, yes. it is about flanking. All of the best beta players that I actually encountered in-game were flankers who waited for their squad to spawn on them and then took out people unaware. Flanking will solve most of every player's problems. Flanking puts you in a safe spot to pick up dead body guns without having to worry about someone shooting you, since your enemies will have their back turned to you until a flag status changes.
  • MONEYPYR0
    828 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    rainkloud wrote: »
    I personally don't like attrition and think it belongs in hard core instead of core. DICE is tweaking it but I'd rather they just remove it from core and give us the Battlefield experience that we've had for many years.

    The worst thing about attrition is the fact that even Dice admits it's been made to punish good players while regular potatoes won't feel big differences. Which is a bad way to make a game if you ask me. I just hope there will be lots of complaints on release and things will be tweaked even further.

    A thoroughly revolting lie and the absence of source to back that statement up should be enough for a moderator to take action against you. Spreading false info with the intent of promoting a gameplay preference is craven and reprehensible and does nothing but have a detrimental effect on the community. The attrition system is designed to better reflect a battlefield experience and, more importantly, reduce the impact of damage negation. Your ability to sponge damage will be reduced and you will no longer be able to simply ignore damage you have sustained. There will be sufficient consequences whereas there was a dearth before.

    Are you being serious, son?
    https://www.ea.com/games/battlefield/news/attrition-system-battlefield-5

    The guy he's responding to said DICE said the system punishes good players, while average players wont notice, which is false, and that article says nothing like that. The closest is says to that is, and I quote directly from the article;

    "In fact, if you’re new to Battlefield, you might not even notice the Attrition system; chances are you’ll die before you run out of ammo. New players won’t be punished by the Attrition system, but advanced players need to apply some additional tactical thinking with the slightly raised skill ceiling."

    Thats just stating that the game will require more thought and strategy compared to the previous games, NOT that it will "punish" veteran players. And then new players, having not played a Battlefield game before, wont have any past experience with BFs gameplay from previous titles.

    Again, NOWHERE in that article does it say "Attrition is designed to punish more skilled players from previous Battlefield games".

    HC has always felt to me like a big crutch for people who can't effectively play Normal mode and now both modes are getting mixed together. Don't see how majority of playerbase will like it.

    So I guess you liked playing a game mode where 15 shots straight into an enemies back didnt kill them? Hardcore was the better mode, because all weapons were effective, and you didnt have 1 or 2 weapons that were OP, and made all the others obsolete, you didnt have regenerating health, so you couldn't tank a bunch of damage, and not need a Medic, and there was no minimap that made it so once you were spotted, everyone knew where you were.

    Also, DICE still isn't saying that they're punishing returning players with Attrition. If you think thats what they're saying, but "in a nice way", cool, but, you're wrong.

    So you're basically saying that HC is easier comparing to Normal? So what's so Hardcore about it? Not being able to kill your enemy in couple of hits actually make you think when engagement is possible and when you should back up. And being spotted on minimap prevents corner campers from sitting there forever getting those unaware kills without punishment.
    Attrition affects you only if you're doing good which is extremely weird to me because any game should promote skill and reward players for being effective. But here we're getting completely different approach.

    No, HC makes you think "If I shoot at these enemies, can I kill both of them and live?" Rather than "Can I run into this group of enemies, spray my weapon wildly, and run away to regen my health?", which is what Attrition is helping to address. You should think if you'll be able to take on enemies withiut dying, and not about whether or not you can get away to a safe spot to regen health. Also, killing the enemy in a few rounds should be the default, not having to waste half a mag on a single enemy because bullets dont do enough damage. Attrition is going to make players play better, because you need to think about your engagements, and your squad will have to back you up, and Medics and Support players will need to do their jobs because their team needs them to do their roles.
  • DeadlyDanDaMan
    615 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    people think skilled players will play worse, but I doubt it. skilled players are also usually the smart players. the bad players will take forever to learn flanking and will just get run over by the ttk.

    i gaurantee everyone will perform proportionally to their last BF, relative to where the game is in its lifespan.

    Its not about flanking routes. Its about good players constantly running around the map like chickens searching for ammo or med pack. I was constantly forced to stop whatever I was doing and go searching for ammo instead. Its a very bad practice especially in a game where it takes good 10 bullets to kill somebody if you're really good.

    The main problem is Dice doesn't know what they want BF5 to be. They try to pack mil sim+arcade+tactical shooter elements in one game, and its not gonna work. As someone already said, they better keep this for Hardcore, and leave everything as it was for years.

    Adapt and overcome my friend. You have a primary and a secondary. You telling me you ran out of ammo for BOTH of those weapons?! You know you can also pick up other people's weapons off the ground too, right? Those will have ammo for them in the weapon at the VERY least. Adapt and overcome. PS: it NEVER took me 10 bullets to kill ANYONE in the Beta, so I don't know what you are on about with that, because it's blatantly false.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5483 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    rainkloud wrote: »
    I personally don't like attrition and think it belongs in hard core instead of core. DICE is tweaking it but I'd rather they just remove it from core and give us the Battlefield experience that we've had for many years.

    The worst thing about attrition is the fact that even Dice admits it's been made to punish good players while regular potatoes won't feel big differences. Which is a bad way to make a game if you ask me. I just hope there will be lots of complaints on release and things will be tweaked even further.

    A thoroughly revolting lie and the absence of source to back that statement up should be enough for a moderator to take action against you. Spreading false info with the intent of promoting a gameplay preference is craven and reprehensible and does nothing but have a detrimental effect on the community. The attrition system is designed to better reflect a battlefield experience and, more importantly, reduce the impact of damage negation. Your ability to sponge damage will be reduced and you will no longer be able to simply ignore damage you have sustained. There will be sufficient consequences whereas there was a dearth before.

    Are you being serious, son?
    https://www.ea.com/games/battlefield/news/attrition-system-battlefield-5

    The guy he's responding to said DICE said the system punishes good players, while average players wont notice, which is false, and that article says nothing like that. The closest is says to that is, and I quote directly from the article;

    "In fact, if you’re new to Battlefield, you might not even notice the Attrition system; chances are you’ll die before you run out of ammo. New players won’t be punished by the Attrition system, but advanced players need to apply some additional tactical thinking with the slightly raised skill ceiling."

    Thats just stating that the game will require more thought and strategy compared to the previous games, NOT that it will "punish" veteran players. And then new players, having not played a Battlefield game before, wont have any past experience with BFs gameplay from previous titles.

    Again, NOWHERE in that article does it say "Attrition is designed to punish more skilled players from previous Battlefield games".

    HC has always felt to me like a big crutch for people who can't effectively play Normal mode and now both modes are getting mixed together. Don't see how majority of playerbase will like it.

    So I guess you liked playing a game mode where 15 shots straight into an enemies back didnt kill them? Hardcore was the better mode, because all weapons were effective, and you didnt have 1 or 2 weapons that were OP, and made all the others obsolete, you didnt have regenerating health, so you couldn't tank a bunch of damage, and not need a Medic, and there was no minimap that made it so once you were spotted, everyone knew where you were.

    Also, DICE still isn't saying that they're punishing returning players with Attrition. If you think thats what they're saying, but "in a nice way", cool, but, you're wrong.

    So you're basically saying that HC is easier comparing to Normal? So what's so Hardcore about it? Not being able to kill your enemy in couple of hits actually make you think when engagement is possible and when you should back up. And being spotted on minimap prevents corner campers from sitting there forever getting those unaware kills without punishment.
    Attrition affects you only if you're doing good which is extremely weird to me because any game should promote skill and reward players for being effective. But here we're getting completely different approach.

    Attrition is going to make players play better, because you need to think about your engagements, and your squad will have to back you up, and Medics and Support players will need to do their jobs because their team needs them to do their roles.

    Now please tell that to all those random potatoes playing bf these days, I dare you.
  • MONEYPYR0
    828 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    rainkloud wrote: »
    I personally don't like attrition and think it belongs in hard core instead of core. DICE is tweaking it but I'd rather they just remove it from core and give us the Battlefield experience that we've had for many years.

    The worst thing about attrition is the fact that even Dice admits it's been made to punish good players while regular potatoes won't feel big differences. Which is a bad way to make a game if you ask me. I just hope there will be lots of complaints on release and things will be tweaked even further.

    A thoroughly revolting lie and the absence of source to back that statement up should be enough for a moderator to take action against you. Spreading false info with the intent of promoting a gameplay preference is craven and reprehensible and does nothing but have a detrimental effect on the community. The attrition system is designed to better reflect a battlefield experience and, more importantly, reduce the impact of damage negation. Your ability to sponge damage will be reduced and you will no longer be able to simply ignore damage you have sustained. There will be sufficient consequences whereas there was a dearth before.

    Are you being serious, son?
    https://www.ea.com/games/battlefield/news/attrition-system-battlefield-5

    The guy he's responding to said DICE said the system punishes good players, while average players wont notice, which is false, and that article says nothing like that. The closest is says to that is, and I quote directly from the article;

    "In fact, if you’re new to Battlefield, you might not even notice the Attrition system; chances are you’ll die before you run out of ammo. New players won’t be punished by the Attrition system, but advanced players need to apply some additional tactical thinking with the slightly raised skill ceiling."

    Thats just stating that the game will require more thought and strategy compared to the previous games, NOT that it will "punish" veteran players. And then new players, having not played a Battlefield game before, wont have any past experience with BFs gameplay from previous titles.

    Again, NOWHERE in that article does it say "Attrition is designed to punish more skilled players from previous Battlefield games".

    HC has always felt to me like a big crutch for people who can't effectively play Normal mode and now both modes are getting mixed together. Don't see how majority of playerbase will like it.

    So I guess you liked playing a game mode where 15 shots straight into an enemies back didnt kill them? Hardcore was the better mode, because all weapons were effective, and you didnt have 1 or 2 weapons that were OP, and made all the others obsolete, you didnt have regenerating health, so you couldn't tank a bunch of damage, and not need a Medic, and there was no minimap that made it so once you were spotted, everyone knew where you were.

    Also, DICE still isn't saying that they're punishing returning players with Attrition. If you think thats what they're saying, but "in a nice way", cool, but, you're wrong.

    So you're basically saying that HC is easier comparing to Normal? So what's so Hardcore about it? Not being able to kill your enemy in couple of hits actually make you think when engagement is possible and when you should back up. And being spotted on minimap prevents corner campers from sitting there forever getting those unaware kills without punishment.
    Attrition affects you only if you're doing good which is extremely weird to me because any game should promote skill and reward players for being effective. But here we're getting completely different approach.

    Attrition is going to make players play better, because you need to think about your engagements, and your squad will have to back you up, and Medics and Support players will need to do their jobs because their team needs them to do their roles.

    Now please tell that to all those random potatoes playing bf these days, I dare you.

    Tell them what? "Hey I need healing", "Can you give me some ammo man?". Wow, how difficult.
  • Hawxxeye
    5594 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    rainkloud wrote: »
    I personally don't like attrition and think it belongs in hard core instead of core. DICE is tweaking it but I'd rather they just remove it from core and give us the Battlefield experience that we've had for many years.

    The worst thing about attrition is the fact that even Dice admits it's been made to punish good players while regular potatoes won't feel big differences. Which is a bad way to make a game if you ask me. I just hope there will be lots of complaints on release and things will be tweaked even further.

    A thoroughly revolting lie and the absence of source to back that statement up should be enough for a moderator to take action against you. Spreading false info with the intent of promoting a gameplay preference is craven and reprehensible and does nothing but have a detrimental effect on the community. The attrition system is designed to better reflect a battlefield experience and, more importantly, reduce the impact of damage negation. Your ability to sponge damage will be reduced and you will no longer be able to simply ignore damage you have sustained. There will be sufficient consequences whereas there was a dearth before.

    Are you being serious, son?
    https://www.ea.com/games/battlefield/news/attrition-system-battlefield-5

    The guy he's responding to said DICE said the system punishes good players, while average players wont notice, which is false, and that article says nothing like that. The closest is says to that is, and I quote directly from the article;

    "In fact, if you’re new to Battlefield, you might not even notice the Attrition system; chances are you’ll die before you run out of ammo. New players won’t be punished by the Attrition system, but advanced players need to apply some additional tactical thinking with the slightly raised skill ceiling."

    Thats just stating that the game will require more thought and strategy compared to the previous games, NOT that it will "punish" veteran players. And then new players, having not played a Battlefield game before, wont have any past experience with BFs gameplay from previous titles.

    Again, NOWHERE in that article does it say "Attrition is designed to punish more skilled players from previous Battlefield games".

    HC has always felt to me like a big crutch for people who can't effectively play Normal mode and now both modes are getting mixed together. Don't see how majority of playerbase will like it.

    So I guess you liked playing a game mode where 15 shots straight into an enemies back didnt kill them? Hardcore was the better mode, because all weapons were effective, and you didnt have 1 or 2 weapons that were OP, and made all the others obsolete, you didnt have regenerating health, so you couldn't tank a bunch of damage, and not need a Medic, and there was no minimap that made it so once you were spotted, everyone knew where you were.

    Also, DICE still isn't saying that they're punishing returning players with Attrition. If you think thats what they're saying, but "in a nice way", cool, but, you're wrong.

    So you're basically saying that HC is easier comparing to Normal? So what's so Hardcore about it? Not being able to kill your enemy in couple of hits actually make you think when engagement is possible and when you should back up. And being spotted on minimap prevents corner campers from sitting there forever getting those unaware kills without punishment.
    Attrition affects you only if you're doing good which is extremely weird to me because any game should promote skill and reward players for being effective. But here we're getting completely different approach.

    Attrition is going to make players play better, because you need to think about your engagements, and your squad will have to back you up, and Medics and Support players will need to do their jobs because their team needs them to do their roles.

    Now please tell that to all those random potatoes playing bf these days, I dare you.

    Tell them what? "Hey I need healing", "Can you give me some ammo man?". Wow, how difficult.

    The problem is not at asking them but them responding to that.

    For that to happen 3 steps need to be cleared:
    1) For the target person to successfully perceive the need of the one asking.
    2) for the target person to be able to reach the person asking
    3) For the target person to decide to actually oblige to the request.
    .
    The problem is on number (1) most of the time.
    I do not even want to imagine that 3 is a major problem (though it makes good comedy)
    https://youtu.be/-cP5hKZw7s4?t=254
  • ProAssassin2003
    3361 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    people think skilled players will play worse, but I doubt it. skilled players are also usually the smart players. the bad players will take forever to learn flanking and will just get run over by the ttk.

    i gaurantee everyone will perform proportionally to their last BF, relative to where the game is in its lifespan.


    Players use to going on Rambo killing sprees will probably have trouble.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5483 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    rainkloud wrote: »
    I personally don't like attrition and think it belongs in hard core instead of core. DICE is tweaking it but I'd rather they just remove it from core and give us the Battlefield experience that we've had for many years.

    The worst thing about attrition is the fact that even Dice admits it's been made to punish good players while regular potatoes won't feel big differences. Which is a bad way to make a game if you ask me. I just hope there will be lots of complaints on release and things will be tweaked even further.

    A thoroughly revolting lie and the absence of source to back that statement up should be enough for a moderator to take action against you. Spreading false info with the intent of promoting a gameplay preference is craven and reprehensible and does nothing but have a detrimental effect on the community. The attrition system is designed to better reflect a battlefield experience and, more importantly, reduce the impact of damage negation. Your ability to sponge damage will be reduced and you will no longer be able to simply ignore damage you have sustained. There will be sufficient consequences whereas there was a dearth before.

    Are you being serious, son?
    https://www.ea.com/games/battlefield/news/attrition-system-battlefield-5

    The guy he's responding to said DICE said the system punishes good players, while average players wont notice, which is false, and that article says nothing like that. The closest is says to that is, and I quote directly from the article;

    "In fact, if you’re new to Battlefield, you might not even notice the Attrition system; chances are you’ll die before you run out of ammo. New players won’t be punished by the Attrition system, but advanced players need to apply some additional tactical thinking with the slightly raised skill ceiling."

    Thats just stating that the game will require more thought and strategy compared to the previous games, NOT that it will "punish" veteran players. And then new players, having not played a Battlefield game before, wont have any past experience with BFs gameplay from previous titles.

    Again, NOWHERE in that article does it say "Attrition is designed to punish more skilled players from previous Battlefield games".

    HC has always felt to me like a big crutch for people who can't effectively play Normal mode and now both modes are getting mixed together. Don't see how majority of playerbase will like it.

    So I guess you liked playing a game mode where 15 shots straight into an enemies back didnt kill them? Hardcore was the better mode, because all weapons were effective, and you didnt have 1 or 2 weapons that were OP, and made all the others obsolete, you didnt have regenerating health, so you couldn't tank a bunch of damage, and not need a Medic, and there was no minimap that made it so once you were spotted, everyone knew where you were.

    Also, DICE still isn't saying that they're punishing returning players with Attrition. If you think thats what they're saying, but "in a nice way", cool, but, you're wrong.

    So you're basically saying that HC is easier comparing to Normal? So what's so Hardcore about it? Not being able to kill your enemy in couple of hits actually make you think when engagement is possible and when you should back up. And being spotted on minimap prevents corner campers from sitting there forever getting those unaware kills without punishment.
    Attrition affects you only if you're doing good which is extremely weird to me because any game should promote skill and reward players for being effective. But here we're getting completely different approach.

    Attrition is going to make players play better, because you need to think about your engagements, and your squad will have to back you up, and Medics and Support players will need to do their jobs because their team needs them to do their roles.

    Now please tell that to all those random potatoes playing bf these days, I dare you.

    Tell them what? "Hey I need healing", "Can you give me some ammo man?". Wow, how difficult.

    Are you trying to imply those people will listen to you or even care? I can't even tell how many times I had literally stay in front of random support guy asking for ammo and receiving none. You can't simply comprehend how oblivious the majority of playerbase is.
    Once again, we obviously have to live with attrition enabled but I'm 100% positive it will hurt the game experience for many players in a long run.
  • Mystriall
    497 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    attrition is good :) just deal with it. If i see you i will give you ammo. I even hand out ammo to people who don't want it. sometimes even to the enemy. And if no one wants to give you it, you can always find ammo near a flag, and in a pinch the ammo you get from enemies can do. There are so many possible ways to get ammo, it shouldn't be a problem. If supports where to only way to get ammo, i could understand it better.
  • trip1ex
    4770 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    It doesn't add anything to the game. Just makes you hunt for ammo more often and hope someone passes you ammo more often than before. We already had that in BF1 anyway. I run out of ammo all the time in BF1. And so, to me, the only difference, in the beta at least, is I had to go look for ammo more often than in BF1. Otherwise it's the same stuff, different day.
  • Hawxxeye
    5594 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Mystriall wrote: »
    attrition is good :) just deal with it. If i see you i will give you ammo. I even hand out ammo to people who don't want it. sometimes even to the enemy. And if no one wants to give you it, you can always find ammo near a flag, and in a pinch the ammo you get from enemies can do. There are so many possible ways to get ammo, it shouldn't be a problem. If supports where to only way to get ammo, i could understand it better.
    I believe the game lacks an absolute way to notify someone else you need ammo or health that cannot be missed by someone not paying attention to the chat box.
    Generally a way to not miss the commands requests etc from the commo rose.
  • m1k3ol
    823 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Moderator
    I think I already gave a lengthy opinion on this in another thread, but the only people that will get punished is campers, since if you're killing enemies they drop ammo when downed

    Basically only gunners will be able to camp with their happy bipods and ammo crates, everyone else will have to be on the move or hole themselves on objectives
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Health attrition is fine.

    Ammo attrition is pretty stupid imo. Teammates are way too unreliable, it will lead to lots of camping around supply stations, and it certainly affects those who tend to live longer more than those who don't. I don't think it's a beneficial change to the game at all.
  • YourLocalPlumber
    2896 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    m1k3ol wrote: »
    I think I already gave a lengthy opinion on this in another thread, but the only people that will get punished is campers, since if you're killing enemies they drop ammo when downed

    Basically only gunners will be able to camp with their happy bipods and ammo crates, everyone else will have to be on the move or hole themselves on objectives

    You're saying as if every down opponent gives you enough ammo to kill next one and as if everyone will be running under enemy fire as was your poor victim just to get 5 rounds of ammo? Lolnope
  • m1k3ol
    823 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Moderator
    edited November 2018
    m1k3ol wrote: »
    I think I already gave a lengthy opinion on this in another thread, but the only people that will get punished is campers, since if you're killing enemies they drop ammo when downed

    Basically only gunners will be able to camp with their happy bipods and ammo crates, everyone else will have to be on the move or hole themselves on objectives

    You're saying as if every down opponent gives you enough ammo to kill next one and as if everyone will be running under enemy fire as was your poor victim just to get 5 rounds of ammo? Lolnope

    Depending on the gun, yes, enough to kill the next

    If you're not moving, you're holding a position, ideally near or in an objective, there's both ammo and teammates around, so you don't have to run into enemy fire but there are means to get it

    If none of the above, why are you alone?, why are you not PTFO?, why are you getting outnumbered?

    Anyways, ammo got already increased on how much you can carry and you start with, and everyone now spawns with a health pouch, so any judgement on attrition will have to wait for launch...
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