Attrition system

Comments

  • MachoFantast1c0
    2010 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    Tell them what? "Hey I need healing", "Can you give me some ammo man?". Wow, how difficult.

    The problem is not at asking them but them responding to that.

    This exactly. When I'm requesting a resource and the recipient lacks awareness or basic knowledge of how to respond, I feel like the game is punishing me for correctly playing it. I don't mind attrition all that much, I take it as an additional challenge, but I would like to see some additional mechanics instituted to alleviate the drawbacks.

    First, as was already (and has previously been) suggested, there should be a way to grab resources from team mates, if they fail to respond in a timely manner (considering possible cooldown). Attrition does not really provide an incentive for non-goal-oriented players to improve, so it is a lost cause to hope people would magically learn to play properly. Alternatively, the game should either provide request recipients a clear visual cue instructing them on how to respond, or by incentivizing more strongly by associating better rewards/progression to acting properly upon being requested. Or both.

    Secondly, I don't agree that ammo (nor health) will be more readily available in BFV. The supply stations are often inconveniently located, open and requiring a hazardous route. You might be aware of them being watched, or opponents having firing lines crossing your route. So you are left with poor choices all around. The one significant thing missing in BFV is the full kit pickup, which I used extensively in BF1 to get ammo, health, flares and AT capabilities practically whenever I needed them. I don't fully understand the reasoning why they did away with this, especially considering the possibilities that weapon class switching presents anew. So I'd like to see some variant of this return, perhaps in the manner of a perk, whereby downed enemies can be interacted with to get access to some of their resources.

  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    Secondly, I don't agree that ammo (nor health) will be more readily available in BFV. The supply stations are often inconveniently located, open and requiring a hazardous route. You might be aware of them being watched, or opponents having firing lines crossing your route. So you are left with poor choices all around. The one significant thing missing in BFV is the full kit pickup, which I used extensively in BF1 to get ammo, health, flares and AT capabilities practically whenever I needed them. I don't fully understand the reasoning why they did away with this, especially considering the possibilities that weapon class switching presents anew. So I'd like to see some variant of this return, perhaps in the manner of a perk, whereby downed enemies can be interacted with to get access to some of their resources.

    I definitely agree with that. It's really helpful to be able to pick up a medic's kit, whether friendly or not, to either heal yourself or revive downed teammates. Same with ammo from dead support players.

    With not being able to pick up the enemy's kit in BFV, it's odd that a support or medic's ammo/health packs just magically disappears from their corpse when they die and instead you get half a mag back.

    As for grabbing resources from teammates, I'd like that, but I also don't think it would work well considering you can only carry a limited number of ammo/health pouches now.
  • MachoFantast1c0
    2010 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    As for grabbing resources from teammates, I'd like that, but I also don't think it would work well considering you can only carry a limited number of ammo/health pouches now.

    Was this changed at some point? In the Beta I never noticed running out (I exclusively used pouches), and was able to spam 4-5 before hitting cooldown. I can only be certain that it worked differently from BF1, but the details escape me. I'd like to read up on this, do you happen to have a reference nearby?

  • Mystriall
    497 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    So the solution then would be to give everyone unlimited ammo and 100% auto-regen. And just remove ammo and health crates/pouches. that way everyone can just run and gun all day long without having to think about anything other than shooting whatever moves...
    -
    I believe players will adjust to this new game, just give it a minute. But i do agree that you should be able to pick up a dead enemy or teammates kit. So i don't really know why that has been removed.
  • MachoFantast1c0
    2010 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Mystriall wrote: »
    So the solution then would be to give everyone unlimited ammo and 100% auto-regen. And just remove ammo and health crates/pouches. that way everyone can just run and gun all day long without having to think about anything other than shooting whatever moves...

    I'm not sure if you are referring to me, but I'm merely trying to adjust the concept in a direction that would lessen the frustrating aspects of it, and provide true tactical alternatives to more situations.

    I completely agree that BF1 is rather "brainless", which I happened to test yesterday. Unlike usual, I didn't play medic almost at all, and went heavily with assault, some Parabellum, Hout and M.95 sprinkled in (no vehicles and almost no elite kits). I concentrated on meat grinder maps (FdV, Argonne, Achi Baba, Suez), and for 14 full CQ matches I averaged 5.5 KD with 3.5 (!) KPM solo. This is way higher than my usual average of 2.5 KPM, and the second session of 7 matches was running at nearly 4 KPM, which is insane to sustain.

    So choosing to play selfishly really pays off in BF1, and I'm happy to see that lessened to a degree. Mind you, only two of those matches were with the SMG 08, I just felt so dirty I had to go back to the trusty MP-18. Even though I pulled 80+ kill games with the latter, the SMG 08 is just broken. You can effortlessly erase full squads at a time, no need to play all that smart or careful.

  • Mystriall
    497 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Mystriall wrote: »
    So the solution then would be to give everyone unlimited ammo and 100% auto-regen. And just remove ammo and health crates/pouches. that way everyone can just run and gun all day long without having to think about anything other than shooting whatever moves...

    I'm not sure if you are referring to me, but I'm merely trying to adjust the concept in a direction that would lessen the frustrating aspects of it, and provide true tactical alternatives to more situations.

    I completely agree that BF1 is rather "brainless", which I happened to test yesterday. Unlike usual, I didn't play medic almost at all, and went heavily with assault, some Parabellum, Hout and M.95 sprinkled in (no vehicles and almost no elite kits). I concentrated on meat grinder maps (FdV, Argonne, Achi Baba, Suez), and for 14 full CQ matches I averaged 5.5 KD with 3.5 (!) KPM solo. This is way higher than my usual average of 2.5 KPM, and the second session of 7 matches was running at nearly 4 KPM, which is insane to sustain.

    So choosing to play selfishly really pays off in BF1, and I'm happy to see that lessened to a degree. Mind you, only two of those matches were with the SMG 08, I just felt so dirty I had to go back to the trusty MP-18. Even though I pulled 80+ kill games with the latter, the SMG 08 is just broken. You can effortlessly erase full squads at a time, no need to play all that smart or careful.

    not refering to any one spesificly, but for me it seems alot of people just want it gone all toghether. which i think would be a mistake. Some are making it out to be this game-ruining mechanic, but really all they've done is town down the amount of mags you can carry.
    -
    We should also keep in mind that they have been tweaking the ammo-drops from dead bodies as well.
    -
    That being said, I'm a BAR lover in BF1, I think i have like 90% of my kills with the BAR1918 telescopic. It has 20round mags. and you start out with a total of 120 bullets. 20 + another 100 in extra mags. I.E. 6 mags total.
    In comparison, the FG-42 also has 20round mags and when you've tanked the ammo fully you get 80 extra bullets. so 100 bullets in total, only 20 less than the example from BF1. 5 mags instead of 6. In addition, now you can get ammo from dead bodies, supply stations as well as supports.
    -
    Now ofc these are different weapons, and I only use them in this example because i have used them both. But there's basically no real difference in this example at least. And I'm betting that's the case for most weapons.
    -
    For scout class, In BF1 most snipers have between 30-40 bullets in total. in BFV, the K98 has 5/20 so 25 in total. the ZH-29 has 5/25 so 30 in total, and the Lee-Enfield has 10/30, so actually 40 in total. There's really no difference in the amount of ammo for the scout in BFV compared to BF1.
    -
    Now when i get home later today i can check this out more in depth, but in general, my guess is that for the most part, there's not that much less ammo available for the players in BFV compared to BF1. The big difference is that you have to go top off the ammo in the very start of the game and/or when you spawn.

  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    As for grabbing resources from teammates, I'd like that, but I also don't think it would work well considering you can only carry a limited number of ammo/health pouches now.

    Was this changed at some point? In the Beta I never noticed running out (I exclusively used pouches), and was able to spam 4-5 before hitting cooldown. I can only be certain that it worked differently from BF1, but the details escape me. I'd like to read up on this, do you happen to have a reference nearby?

    Yeah, you can only carry 3 plus your own personal bandage pack. Then you need to resupply them at a supply station. Unless that's changed since the beta. Here's a screenshot where I ran out of them. Notice the 0 next to them in my inventory on the right side of the screen.

    no-health-packs-left.png

    Here's one as support. I've got the max you can carry - 3 ammo packs.

    support-ammo-packs.png

    I don't have any readable info at hand on it though.
  • MachoFantast1c0
    2010 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    As for grabbing resources from teammates, I'd like that, but I also don't think it would work well considering you can only carry a limited number of ammo/health pouches now.

    Was this changed at some point? In the Beta I never noticed running out (I exclusively used pouches), and was able to spam 4-5 before hitting cooldown. I can only be certain that it worked differently from BF1, but the details escape me. I'd like to read up on this, do you happen to have a reference nearby?

    Yeah, you can only carry 3 plus your own personal bandage pack. Then you need to resupply them at a supply station. Unless that's changed since the beta. Here's a screenshot where I ran out of them. Notice the 0 next to them in my inventory on the right side of the screen.
    Here's one as support. I've got the max you can carry - 3 ammo packs.

    Thanks for these. I was under the impression they were on cooldown, and would resupply self-sufficiently in time. But I guess I was frequenting ammo stations enough to not notice this. I'm a bit perplexed though by the fact that I don't ever remember not being self-heal during extended fire-fights. I'll just put it down to me being a clueless noob :-).
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    As for grabbing resources from teammates, I'd like that, but I also don't think it would work well considering you can only carry a limited number of ammo/health pouches now.

    Was this changed at some point? In the Beta I never noticed running out (I exclusively used pouches), and was able to spam 4-5 before hitting cooldown. I can only be certain that it worked differently from BF1, but the details escape me. I'd like to read up on this, do you happen to have a reference nearby?

    Yeah, you can only carry 3 plus your own personal bandage pack. Then you need to resupply them at a supply station. Unless that's changed since the beta. Here's a screenshot where I ran out of them. Notice the 0 next to them in my inventory on the right side of the screen.
    Here's one as support. I've got the max you can carry - 3 ammo packs.

    Thanks for these. I was under the impression they were on cooldown, and would resupply self-sufficiently in time. But I guess I was frequenting ammo stations enough to not notice this. I'm a bit perplexed though by the fact that I don't ever remember not being self-heal during extended fire-fights. I'll just put it down to me being a clueless noob :-).

    That's why taking ammo off of other players could be a problem. Especially if you've only fired a few rounds and you're taking a full pack from someone. For health, they could just make is so that you can only take one if you don't have any bandages in your inventory.
  • Mystriall
    497 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    As for grabbing resources from teammates, I'd like that, but I also don't think it would work well considering you can only carry a limited number of ammo/health pouches now.

    Was this changed at some point? In the Beta I never noticed running out (I exclusively used pouches), and was able to spam 4-5 before hitting cooldown. I can only be certain that it worked differently from BF1, but the details escape me. I'd like to read up on this, do you happen to have a reference nearby?

    Yeah, you can only carry 3 plus your own personal bandage pack. Then you need to resupply them at a supply station. Unless that's changed since the beta. Here's a screenshot where I ran out of them. Notice the 0 next to them in my inventory on the right side of the screen.
    Here's one as support. I've got the max you can carry - 3 ammo packs.

    Thanks for these. I was under the impression they were on cooldown, and would resupply self-sufficiently in time. But I guess I was frequenting ammo stations enough to not notice this. I'm a bit perplexed though by the fact that I don't ever remember not being self-heal during extended fire-fights. I'll just put it down to me being a clueless noob :-).

    That's why taking ammo off of other players could be a problem. Especially if you've only fired a few rounds and you're taking a full pack from someone. For health, they could just make is so that you can only take one if you don't have any bandages in your inventory.

    This is incorrect. It does automatically resupply. By the looks of it every 15 seconds after throwing 1 out you get 1 new one. proof in this video from Beta: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4WwwVoiOUOA . If you watch from about 6:15 he immidiately after spawning throws out a ammo pouch, shortly after using one for himself. and you see it going to 1. next time he throws one out to a teammate, it says he has 2 more left. I.E. he had gotten new ones automatically.
    -
    This was also the case during alpha: https://youtube.com/watch?v=XTZFlX0pK5M at 1:51 he throws a pouch out and you see it go down to 2. and at about 2:07 it's goes back to 3.
  • V2Face
    2648 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The game is literally designed around the attrition system. It’s Battlefield BR edition as I mentioned in a previous post.
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Mystriall wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    As for grabbing resources from teammates, I'd like that, but I also don't think it would work well considering you can only carry a limited number of ammo/health pouches now.

    Was this changed at some point? In the Beta I never noticed running out (I exclusively used pouches), and was able to spam 4-5 before hitting cooldown. I can only be certain that it worked differently from BF1, but the details escape me. I'd like to read up on this, do you happen to have a reference nearby?

    Yeah, you can only carry 3 plus your own personal bandage pack. Then you need to resupply them at a supply station. Unless that's changed since the beta. Here's a screenshot where I ran out of them. Notice the 0 next to them in my inventory on the right side of the screen.
    Here's one as support. I've got the max you can carry - 3 ammo packs.

    Thanks for these. I was under the impression they were on cooldown, and would resupply self-sufficiently in time. But I guess I was frequenting ammo stations enough to not notice this. I'm a bit perplexed though by the fact that I don't ever remember not being self-heal during extended fire-fights. I'll just put it down to me being a clueless noob :-).

    That's why taking ammo off of other players could be a problem. Especially if you've only fired a few rounds and you're taking a full pack from someone. For health, they could just make is so that you can only take one if you don't have any bandages in your inventory.

    This is incorrect. It does automatically resupply. By the looks of it every 15 seconds after throwing 1 out you get 1 new one. proof in this video from Beta: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4WwwVoiOUOA . If you watch from about 6:15 he immidiately after spawning throws out a ammo pouch, shortly after using one for himself. and you see it going to 1. next time he throws one out to a teammate, it says he has 2 more left. I.E. he had gotten new ones automatically.
    -
    This was also the case during alpha: https://youtube.com/watch?v=XTZFlX0pK5M at 1:51 he throws a pouch out and you see it go down to 2. and at about 2:07 it's goes back to 3.

    It doesn't appear to as medic, yet it looks like I was still able to throw out health in this clip. My ammo count for the medpacks stays at zero regardless of my use of them. Maybe the counter was bugged.

  • Mystriall
    497 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Mystriall wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    As for grabbing resources from teammates, I'd like that, but I also don't think it would work well considering you can only carry a limited number of ammo/health pouches now.

    Was this changed at some point? In the Beta I never noticed running out (I exclusively used pouches), and was able to spam 4-5 before hitting cooldown. I can only be certain that it worked differently from BF1, but the details escape me. I'd like to read up on this, do you happen to have a reference nearby?

    Yeah, you can only carry 3 plus your own personal bandage pack. Then you need to resupply them at a supply station. Unless that's changed since the beta. Here's a screenshot where I ran out of them. Notice the 0 next to them in my inventory on the right side of the screen.
    Here's one as support. I've got the max you can carry - 3 ammo packs.

    Thanks for these. I was under the impression they were on cooldown, and would resupply self-sufficiently in time. But I guess I was frequenting ammo stations enough to not notice this. I'm a bit perplexed though by the fact that I don't ever remember not being self-heal during extended fire-fights. I'll just put it down to me being a clueless noob :-).

    That's why taking ammo off of other players could be a problem. Especially if you've only fired a few rounds and you're taking a full pack from someone. For health, they could just make is so that you can only take one if you don't have any bandages in your inventory.

    This is incorrect. It does automatically resupply. By the looks of it every 15 seconds after throwing 1 out you get 1 new one. proof in this video from Beta: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4WwwVoiOUOA . If you watch from about 6:15 he immidiately after spawning throws out a ammo pouch, shortly after using one for himself. and you see it going to 1. next time he throws one out to a teammate, it says he has 2 more left. I.E. he had gotten new ones automatically.
    -
    This was also the case during alpha: https://youtube.com/watch?v=XTZFlX0pK5M at 1:51 he throws a pouch out and you see it go down to 2. and at about 2:07 it's goes back to 3.

    It doesn't appear to as medic, yet it looks like I was still able to throw out health in this clip. My ammo count for the medpacks stays at zero regardless of my use of them. Maybe the counter was bugged.


    ye it looks that way.. alot of stuff was bugged in the beta. I saw another video with the same.. he had 0 packs left, but he could still heal himself and throw out to others. didn't seem like the counter ever went up again.

    But what you can see in your video, is the counter for the bandage in the middle. When you throw one out to your teammate it goes from 1 to 0, and then right back up to 1 again. And then when you heal yourself, it goes to 0 and then back to 1 again.
  • fisknyllet17
    1727 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    jennyzii23 wrote: »
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  • ragnarok013
    2881 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    people think skilled players will play worse, but I doubt it. skilled players are also usually the smart players. the bad players will take forever to learn flanking and will just get run over by the ttk.

    i gaurantee everyone will perform proportionally to their last BF, relative to where the game is in its lifespan.

    As someone who plays exclusively Hardcore in BF4, not having health regeneration (at least, not much in Attrition) is something I'm already used to, so it's not big deal. Less ammo also isnt horrible, since you can build resupply stations, and Support players exist. Even my friend who wasnt very good during the beta liked the new system, and he was able to do decent as a Medic, even if his K/D wasn't great.

    And that's my main issue, we already have a mode for this experience called hard core, if someone wants that experience let them go there and grow the hard core community. Now the players who enjoy core are left out in the cold playing older Battlefield titles or we have to play hard core lite in BF5.
  • DingoKillr
    3467 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    people think skilled players will play worse, but I doubt it. skilled players are also usually the smart players. the bad players will take forever to learn flanking and will just get run over by the ttk.

    i gaurantee everyone will perform proportionally to their last BF, relative to where the game is in its lifespan.

    As someone who plays exclusively Hardcore in BF4, not having health regeneration (at least, not much in Attrition) is something I'm already used to, so it's not big deal. Less ammo also isnt horrible, since you can build resupply stations, and Support players exist. Even my friend who wasnt very good during the beta liked the new system, and he was able to do decent as a Medic, even if his K/D wasn't great.

    And that's my main issue, we already have a mode for this experience called hard core, if someone wants that experience let them go there and grow the hard core community. Now the players who enjoy core are left out in the cold playing older Battlefield titles or we have to play hard core lite in BF5.
    The argument that attrition should be hardcore does not wash when so many argue against Spotting.
    Spotting enemy for a team mate with a tag has been in since BF2142. The argument can also be said that current no spotting system should be hardcore, not core.

    BTW Pre-2142 non-regen health and vehicle ammo attrition was core.


  • rainkloud
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    people think skilled players will play worse, but I doubt it. skilled players are also usually the smart players. the bad players will take forever to learn flanking and will just get run over by the ttk.

    i gaurantee everyone will perform proportionally to their last BF, relative to where the game is in its lifespan.

    As someone who plays exclusively Hardcore in BF4, not having health regeneration (at least, not much in Attrition) is something I'm already used to, so it's not big deal. Less ammo also isnt horrible, since you can build resupply stations, and Support players exist. Even my friend who wasnt very good during the beta liked the new system, and he was able to do decent as a Medic, even if his K/D wasn't great.

    And that's my main issue, we already have a mode for this experience called hard core, if someone wants that experience let them go there and grow the hard core community. Now the players who enjoy core are left out in the cold playing older Battlefield titles or we have to play hard core lite in BF5.

    Hardcore has no health regen while BFV has limited health regen plus bandages. There's plenty of daylight between the two so I would not agree that it is accurate that hardcore is getting shoved in people's faces. The devs wisely realized that there is a an already crowded space of competitors that have a damage sponging auto health regen system that emphasizes a more gamey and less realistic atmosphere. On the other end you have the Squads and ARMA's that lean much heavier to the sim side of things. What you don't have a lot of is something that gives some nods to realism but doesn't get mired and bogged down in it and retains a very smooth flow and feel. The old softcore, sponsored by Doritos, was encroaching on territory that was well occupied and frankly done better by competitors. There was really no good reason to have a realistic looking and moving military shooter veer that far into Fortnite, TF2 and Overwatch territory. The attrition system carves out its own space and serves as a refuge for people who don't want either extreme and just want a military shooter that is intuitive and there's very little intuitive about being able to go all the way down to 1HP only to recover back to 100 for no other reason than ~12 seconds passed by.
  • Mystriall
    497 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    There's nothing hardcore about the attrition system, it's still pampered down. You still have auto-regen. only it's 30-35? instead of 100. You get the option to carry an extra bandage which gets you to 100, so there's not always a need for a medic to be around. You have ammo stations around the map so there's not always a need for a support to be around. In fact, if you wanted to you could play the game without any medics and/or supports, you don't even need a medic for revives if you are in a squad.
    -
    What's hardcore about that?
    -
    And the amount of ammo you have, isn't significantly less than say the ammo you got in BF1. The only difference is that you spawn without max ammo. to get the last 20% or w.e. you need to go to a supply station and/or support. And you spawn with enough ammo to last until you get to a support that wants to help or a supply station.

  • Hawxxeye
    5158 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    Mystriall wrote: »
    There's nothing hardcore about the attrition system, it's still pampered down. You still have auto-regen. only it's 30-35? instead of 100. You get the option to carry an extra bandage which gets you to 100, so there's not always a need for a medic to be around. You have ammo stations around the map so there's not always a need for a support to be around. In fact, if you wanted to you could play the game without any medics and/or supports, you don't even need a medic for revives if you are in a squad.
    -
    What's hardcore about that?
    -
    And the amount of ammo you have, isn't significantly less than say the ammo you got in BF1. The only difference is that you spawn without max ammo. to get the last 20% or w.e. you need to go to a supply station and/or support. And you spawn with enough ammo to last until you get to a support that wants to help or a supply station.
    The problem is not with the attrition itself but at how ineffective it can be to relay to a lot of players that you need them to give you a pack of their ammo or bandages.
    .
    The same problem happens with other prompts like Request Order which is also missable and leads to squad leadership stealing which will be a big issue in BFV.
    .
    We have a Comm-rose/chat box problem, not an attrition problem imho
  • ragnarok013
    2881 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    rainkloud wrote: »
    MONEYPYR0 wrote: »
    people think skilled players will play worse, but I doubt it. skilled players are also usually the smart players. the bad players will take forever to learn flanking and will just get run over by the ttk.

    i gaurantee everyone will perform proportionally to their last BF, relative to where the game is in its lifespan.

    As someone who plays exclusively Hardcore in BF4, not having health regeneration (at least, not much in Attrition) is something I'm already used to, so it's not big deal. Less ammo also isnt horrible, since you can build resupply stations, and Support players exist. Even my friend who wasnt very good during the beta liked the new system, and he was able to do decent as a Medic, even if his K/D wasn't great.

    And that's my main issue, we already have a mode for this experience called hard core, if someone wants that experience let them go there and grow the hard core community. Now the players who enjoy core are left out in the cold playing older Battlefield titles or we have to play hard core lite in BF5.

    Hardcore has no health regen while BFV has limited health regen plus bandages. There's plenty of daylight between the two so I would not agree that it is accurate that hardcore is getting shoved in people's faces. The devs wisely realized that there is a an already crowded space of competitors that have a damage sponging auto health regen system that emphasizes a more gamey and less realistic atmosphere. On the other end you have the Squads and ARMA's that lean much heavier to the sim side of things. What you don't have a lot of is something that gives some nods to realism but doesn't get mired and bogged down in it and retains a very smooth flow and feel. The old softcore, sponsored by Doritos, was encroaching on territory that was well occupied and frankly done better by competitors. There was really no good reason to have a realistic looking and moving military shooter veer that far into Fortnite, TF2 and Overwatch territory. The attrition system carves out its own space and serves as a refuge for people who don't want either extreme and just want a military shooter that is intuitive and there's very little intuitive about being able to go all the way down to 1HP only to recover back to 100 for no other reason than ~12 seconds passed by.

    I called it "hard core lite" which would account for the differences between core and hard core. I'm and old Hard Core player who went to core after the BF4 changes to HC so I'm familiar with both game modes.
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