Tanks in BF5 -> Panzerfaust outdamaging tank shells???

Comments

  • Trokey66
    9163 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    Sounds like attrition all over again!

    People complained that they couldn't lone Wolf infantry for lack of ammo so DICE increased the count.

    Now people complain about 'weak' tanks but ignore that every Support has a repair tool in thier tool box.

    The game has barely been out and people cry nerf/buff!

    Players are still trying the new stuff, running around learning the maps and mechanics.

    No balance passes should be made for at least 4-8 weeks after full release unless it is a glitch (BF3 USAS and Frags for example). This allows players to 'bed in' and learn the intricacies of new mechanics and gameplay. THEN And only then, should balance passes be looked at.

    I am not.saying there are no issues but let's give some time to ensure it is a gameplay issue and NOT a player base issue.

    If, after a reasonable amount of time, the data confirms any issue then buff/nerf as required but for the love of all things sacred, give it a chance!
    Post edited by Trokey66 on
  • TropicPoison
    2505 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    ackers75 wrote: »
    To all the tankers complaining......maybe just maybe your getting out played by anti tank infantry?
    Over 2 days into this game and it’s starting already.

    Yeah it's not like we played the beta or anything for DICE to fix these kinds of issues and problems, silly us for thinking they would.

    It's obvious you hate vehicles of any kind or getting killed by them probably, you've done nothing but dismiss everything everyones said that's saying things aren't balanced, panzerfaust obviously does too much damage and it's way too accurate at ranges it shouldn't be, and since the majority of players are running assault it makes it very unbalanced since there's practically no way for a tank to stay alive moving around without camping somewhere which is STUPID.
  • DingoKillr
    4356 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Sounds like attrition all over again!

    People complained that they couldn't lone Wolf infantry for lack of ammo so DICE increased the count.

    Now people complain about 'weak' tanks but ignore that every Support has a repair tool in thier tool box.

    The game has barely been out and people cry nerf/buff!

    Players are still trying the new stuff, running around learning the maps and mechanics.

    No balance passes should be made for at least 4-8 weeks after full release unless it is a glitch (BF3 USAS and Frags for example). This allows players to 'bed in' and learn the intricacies of new mechanics and gameplay. THEN And only then, should balance passes be looked at.

    I am not.saying there are no issues but let's give some time to ensure it is a gameplay issue and NOT a player base issue.

    If, after a reasonable amount of time, the data confirms any issue then buff/nerf as required but for the love of all things sacred, give it a chance!

    That is the point a tank with a repair should do well, assault with a supplier or other assault should do well. But it sound like in 1v1 assault has the upper hand, adding more assault makes the balance worse.
  • aka_mapuBAHHA
    78 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    How about assault will have TNT, AT mines and AT grenades but PanzerFaust from crates only? (Crates on vehicles... but this is from another game =))
    If you get youself into the middle of CC fight, be ready to be kicked ****.
    If some dudes get to you and spam you with Panzer, well... It's your/your cover buddies fault.
    Middle range vs infantry against BF4/BF1 tank play. Tank vs tank all possible ranges. + if you have some ground unit to flank enemy while dueling on tanks.
    Tank driver got time to retreat in case of hot situation.
  • ReEpEReT
    7 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Zenvoc wrote: »
    @WinterWarhurst Look at this gyazo (just a gif) were I get hit by a panzerfaust for 68 damage.

    https://gyazo.com/5afc8937bd289eb28e13811fdc08f956

    Yes its a light tank but a good tanker should be able to counter this right?
    In this clip i managed to kill him with a tank shell when he peeked again (bunny hopping panzerfaust) but he could easily kill me if he managed to shoot his rocket before he died.

    It just feels sad that 1 person can 1v1 a tank

    In this clip I really overrun a group of 3 infantry and they managed to shoot me for again 68 damage
    https://gyazo.com/907f96af5519eeefd74f4470bc18c64d

    This next clip has to be the most frustrating thing I encountered once you receive damage and when you already have used your quick repair and you manage to survive you cant repair your tracks leaving you at 1 km/h slowly driving to your base: (2 clips)
    https://gyazo.com/1909a60c568e53da8cb135979a5cd371
    https://gyazo.com/d0d70c53252ae48c803182613c517fd9

    And I really think the german tanks are better than the Allied tanks (the light tank from allied is a joke)

    First things first.

    Tanks have sweet spots. The back of the tank is a the sweet spot and there is a damage multiplier.

    Second: Its true that the damage does not make sense sometimes.

    I got, simply deleted in 2 hits from panzerfausts driving a TIGER. ( AND NOT IN THE BACK ).

    Sorry but, this needs to make sense. I played battlefield since battlefield 2, being the tank of my team ( competitive ), and I knew all the sweetspots, but that a assault kills you of 2 hits in a TIGER is simply ridiculous.
  • ninjapenquinuk
    2250 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    So do the tanks start with HE shells then upgrade to AP? If thats the case the its fair enough that Panzerfausts do more damage to tanks than tanks HE shells. However the splash damage of HE shells v infantry should be much bigger
  • Frenchterran
    42 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    What about making the tank shell explosions to knock off people .. right now you fire a missile 1 cm next to a guy aiming a panzerfaust and he isn't killed + he can shoot back at you without too muche disturbance.

    They told us we would be knock down by explosions .. but only the V2 is doing this type of bump.
  • aka_mapuBAHHA
    78 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    They told us we would be knock down by explosions .. but only the V2 is doing this type of bump.
    Tottaly agreed.
  • Trokey66
    9163 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Sounds like attrition all over again!

    People complained that they couldn't lone Wolf infantry for lack of ammo so DICE increased the count.

    Now people complain about 'weak' tanks but ignore that every Support has a repair tool in thier tool box.

    The game has barely been out and people cry nerf/buff!

    Players are still trying the new stuff, running around learning the maps and mechanics.

    No balance passes should be made for at least 4-8 weeks after full release unless it is a glitch (BF3 USAS and Frags for example). This allows players to 'bed in' and learn the intricacies of new mechanics and gameplay. THEN And only then, should balance passes be looked at.

    I am not.saying there are no issues but let's give some time to ensure it is a gameplay issue and NOT a player base issue.

    If, after a reasonable amount of time, the data confirms any issue then buff/nerf as required but for the love of all things sacred, give it a chance!

    That is the point a tank with a repair should do well, assault with a supplier or other assault should do well. But it sound like in 1v1 assault has the upper hand, adding more assault makes the balance worse.

    The last bit is very relevant.

    Are players playing Assualt because of the guns, an unfortunate consequence is an over abundance of AT weapons.

    If Assualt weapons were less attractive and/or other class weapons more so, would that alleviate some 9f the issues?

    Point is with so little data, it may be more complicated than Tonks weak need buff or Panzerfaust to stronk need nerf.
  • DukeSan27
    1297 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Sounds like attrition all over again!

    People complained that they couldn't lone Wolf infantry for lack of ammo so DICE increased the count.

    Now people complain about 'weak' tanks but ignore that every Support has a repair tool in thier tool box.

    The game has barely been out and people cry nerf/buff!

    Players are still trying the new stuff, running around learning the maps and mechanics.

    No balance passes should be made for at least 4-8 weeks after full release unless it is a glitch (BF3 USAS and Frags for example). This allows players to 'bed in' and learn the intricacies of new mechanics and gameplay. THEN And only then, should balance passes be looked at.

    I am not.saying there are no issues but let's give some time to ensure it is a gameplay issue and NOT a player base issue.

    If, after a reasonable amount of time, the data confirms any issue then buff/nerf as required but for the love of all things sacred, give it a chance!

    That is the point a tank with a repair should do well, assault with a supplier or other assault should do well. But it sound like in 1v1 assault has the upper hand, adding more assault makes the balance worse.

    The last bit is very relevant.

    Are players playing Assualt because of the guns, an unfortunate consequence is an over abundance of AT weapons.

    If Assualt weapons were less attractive and/or other class weapons more so, would that alleviate some 9f the issues?

    Point is with so little data, it may be more complicated than Tonks weak need buff or Panzerfaust to stronk need nerf.

    No amount of data is going to fix the fact that the heaviest tank, Tiger I, is getting 2 shotted from a panzerfaust. I have myself experienced death from a Panzerfaust with 47 health in a Tiger, from the back.

    Compared to BF1 where the Light Tank could survive 4 rockets, which had to be launched prone, and now 2 panzerfausts take out the heaviest tank while the soldier is bunny hopping.

    To me, all the evidence points to a bugged damage model with the introduction of systemic damage. Its like the systemic damage is added on top of normal damage, so you end up taking 2x/3x damage.

  • DukeSan27
    1297 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    What about making the tank shell explosions to knock off people .. right now you fire a missile 1 cm next to a guy aiming a panzerfaust and he isn't killed + he can shoot back at you without too muche disturbance.

    They told us we would be knock down by explosions .. but only the V2 is doing this type of bump.

    That's a good question.

    Added on top is the fact that the Tank jumps up and down when getting hit, and many times it moves your aim.

    And don't even get me started on the amount of smoke. Fire one tank shell and you can't see the target for the next 3-5 seconds, making it almost impossible to track your target effectively. Even in Tank v Tank, you just pray and shoot at the last position of the tank.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    What’s particularly stupid is that a Tiger has identical thickness armour in the rear as the sides, and I would much prefer to be shot in the rear because the engine would eat most the shot. If you got hit in the side you would be ammo racked or have your turret crew killed, etc.

    I recall the two hit kill to the rear being present in the Alpha but missing in the Beta.

    It’s a shame they brought this damage multiplier/ max damage output back.
  • Mediffs
    70 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    I agree to some extent that the tanks don't pose as much of a threat to infantry as they should at the moment. The Tiger should be near impossible to destroy by hitting it from the front, but I'm totally fine with any tank being destroyed by 2 Panzerfausts to the rear. That's how it should be. If you let yourself be shot at the weakest armor on your tank you deserve to be punished, and the infantry rewarded for managing to sneak up on your weak point.
    However it would be nice to see the tank HE round splash damage and the mg bullet velocity increased to make the tanks more deadly when they get you in their sights.
  • Trokey66
    9163 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DukeSan27 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Sounds like attrition all over again!

    People complained that they couldn't lone Wolf infantry for lack of ammo so DICE increased the count.

    Now people complain about 'weak' tanks but ignore that every Support has a repair tool in thier tool box.

    The game has barely been out and people cry nerf/buff!

    Players are still trying the new stuff, running around learning the maps and mechanics.

    No balance passes should be made for at least 4-8 weeks after full release unless it is a glitch (BF3 USAS and Frags for example). This allows players to 'bed in' and learn the intricacies of new mechanics and gameplay. THEN And only then, should balance passes be looked at.

    I am not.saying there are no issues but let's give some time to ensure it is a gameplay issue and NOT a player base issue.

    If, after a reasonable amount of time, the data confirms any issue then buff/nerf as required but for the love of all things sacred, give it a chance!

    That is the point a tank with a repair should do well, assault with a supplier or other assault should do well. But it sound like in 1v1 assault has the upper hand, adding more assault makes the balance worse.

    The last bit is very relevant.

    Are players playing Assualt because of the guns, an unfortunate consequence is an over abundance of AT weapons.

    If Assualt weapons were less attractive and/or other class weapons more so, would that alleviate some 9f the issues?

    Point is with so little data, it may be more complicated than Tonks weak need buff or Panzerfaust to stronk need nerf.

    No amount of data is going to fix the fact that the heaviest tank, Tiger I, is getting 2 shotted from a panzerfaust. I have myself experienced death from a Panzerfaust with 47 health in a Tiger, from the back.

    Compared to BF1 where the Light Tank could survive 4 rockets, which had to be launched prone, and now 2 panzerfausts take out the heaviest tank while the soldier is bunny hopping.

    To me, all the evidence points to a bugged damage model with the introduction of systemic damage. Its like the systemic damage is added on top of normal damage, so you end up taking 2x/3x damage.

    If it is indeed a genuine 'glitch' then yes, it should be addressed as soon as possible but if not, well time should tell.
  • DingoKillr
    4356 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Sounds like attrition all over again!

    People complained that they couldn't lone Wolf infantry for lack of ammo so DICE increased the count.

    Now people complain about 'weak' tanks but ignore that every Support has a repair tool in thier tool box.

    The game has barely been out and people cry nerf/buff!

    Players are still trying the new stuff, running around learning the maps and mechanics.

    No balance passes should be made for at least 4-8 weeks after full release unless it is a glitch (BF3 USAS and Frags for example). This allows players to 'bed in' and learn the intricacies of new mechanics and gameplay. THEN And only then, should balance passes be looked at.

    I am not.saying there are no issues but let's give some time to ensure it is a gameplay issue and NOT a player base issue.

    If, after a reasonable amount of time, the data confirms any issue then buff/nerf as required but for the love of all things sacred, give it a chance!

    That is the point a tank with a repair should do well, assault with a supplier or other assault should do well. But it sound like in 1v1 assault has the upper hand, adding more assault makes the balance worse.

    The last bit is very relevant.

    Are players playing Assualt because of the guns, an unfortunate consequence is an over abundance of AT weapons.

    If Assualt weapons were less attractive and/or other class weapons more so, would that alleviate some 9f the issues?

    Point is with so little data, it may be more complicated than Tonks weak need buff or Panzerfaust to stronk need nerf.
    It is not irrelevant if a single assault can easily takedown a tank which has a longer spawn time multiple assault make that to easy giving tanks less of a impact role.

    What every the reason for more Assaults a squad running 2+ Assault all the time should be losing something useful unfortunately those gain exceeds the loss. That is why I am disappointed with some of the choice DICE have made like weaken attrition.

    BF is getting boring with same play setup each game. It all because people complaining about Scout, Support or things like Grenade Spam making it hard to play those things but ask to make it harder for the Anti-Vehicle class(top 1-2 since BF3) sudden we need to wait for more data. Screw that if Beta was enough to make changes like allowing Panzerfaust to hip fire then there is enough to make it harder for Assault like increase impact damage(shockwave)
  • Trokey66
    9163 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Sounds like attrition all over again!

    People complained that they couldn't lone Wolf infantry for lack of ammo so DICE increased the count.

    Now people complain about 'weak' tanks but ignore that every Support has a repair tool in thier tool box.

    The game has barely been out and people cry nerf/buff!

    Players are still trying the new stuff, running around learning the maps and mechanics.

    No balance passes should be made for at least 4-8 weeks after full release unless it is a glitch (BF3 USAS and Frags for example). This allows players to 'bed in' and learn the intricacies of new mechanics and gameplay. THEN And only then, should balance passes be looked at.

    I am not.saying there are no issues but let's give some time to ensure it is a gameplay issue and NOT a player base issue.

    If, after a reasonable amount of time, the data confirms any issue then buff/nerf as required but for the love of all things sacred, give it a chance!

    That is the point a tank with a repair should do well, assault with a supplier or other assault should do well. But it sound like in 1v1 assault has the upper hand, adding more assault makes the balance worse.

    The last bit is very relevant.

    Are players playing Assualt because of the guns, an unfortunate consequence is an over abundance of AT weapons.

    If Assualt weapons were less attractive and/or other class weapons more so, would that alleviate some 9f the issues?

    Point is with so little data, it may be more complicated than Tonks weak need buff or Panzerfaust to stronk need nerf.
    It is not irrelevant if a single assault can easily takedown a tank which has a longer spawn time multiple assault make that to easy giving tanks less of a impact role.

    What every the reason for more Assaults a squad running 2+ Assault all the time should be losing something useful unfortunately those gain exceeds the loss. That is why I am disappointed with some of the choice DICE have made like weaken attrition.

    BF is getting boring with same play setup each game. It all because people complaining about Scout, Support or things like Grenade Spam making it hard to play those things but ask to make it harder for the Anti-Vehicle class(top 1-2 since BF3) sudden we need to wait for more data. Screw that if Beta was enough to make changes like allowing Panzerfaust to hip fire then there is enough to make it harder for Assault like increase impact damage(shockwave)

    I don't disagree that Assualt are now the 'go to' class, nor am I saying there is not an issue.

    I have said many times and I maintain that balancing fixes are like throwing a pebble into a pond. The splash is the immediate fix but the ripples spread across the pond possibly creating unexpected repercussions.

    What I am saying is that DICE should take time to make the right, considered change or changes rather than a 'knee jerk' one.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hey guys, you may find this post I just did related to this topic interesting:

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/161804/tank-rear-armour-weak-spot-myths-i-have-included-armour-profiles-on-all-tanks-in-game/p1?new=1

    Basically is is a breakdown of the armour profiles on all tanks in the games and whether we should have a rear weak spot multiplier in light of them.

    I think a big issue we have is this huge damage multiplier to the rear that Panzerfausts do.
  • TropicPoison
    2505 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DICE must think this is Warthunder with how tanks play now, especially with how they react taking damage from different areas of the tank, I say scrap their crap vehicle team and hire a new one.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DICE must think this is Warthunder with how tanks play now, especially with how they react taking damage from different areas of the tank, I say scrap their crap vehicle team and hire a new one.

    I actually love this new direction, and I really commend DICE for having the courage to take it, it just needs some balancing.

    If it were like War Thunder we’d just simply annihilate everything from range but the Panzerfaust would do even more damage, oh and the tanks would be far slower and less responsive.
  • TropicPoison
    2505 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DICE must think this is Warthunder with how tanks play now, especially with how they react taking damage from different areas of the tank, I say scrap their crap vehicle team and hire a new one.

    I actually love this new direction, and I really commend DICE for having the courage to take it, it just needs some balancing.

    If it were like War Thunder we’d just simply annihilate everything from range but the Panzerfaust would do even more damage, oh and the tanks would be far slower and less responsive.

    Your last bit is pretty much how tanks are atm given what mostly everyone has been saying, the game officially comes out in a few days for deluxe and there's already so many issues.

    If this upcoming patch doesn't fix a lot of things they're going to get destroyed, since this is the whole reason they pushed back their release date supposedly.
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