Medics, are you craving more effective range?

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Comments

  • VincentNZ
    3874 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    @Gforce81 As I mentioned a couple of times before: The recoil and the ROF are not the problem with the MP34 at range. It is the fact that it requires a 7HK pretty fast, which at that point is a third of your magsize, requiring an accuracy of 33% at these ranges. Further we are looking at a gun that has the same spread stats as the other SMGs: A base spread of 0.2, a max spread of 3 and a spread increase per shot of 0.25. The MP34 gets inaccurate rather fast. The PP-2000 had a base spread of 0.4 a max spread of 2, I believe, and a SIPS of 0.076 and still fired faster than the MP34 with a slightly better damage model overall and it still did not work very good as a long-range weapon.
    -
    The claim from DICE that the MP34 is tendencially the long-range option where you can "counter snipers" is simply wrong. Even with the higher ROF and faster bullets you do have severe trade-offs like a magsize where you can likely only kill one guy with, on 64 player servers. It is just not worth it.
  • Gforce81
    3666 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    @Gforce81 As I mentioned a couple of times before: The recoil and the ROF are not the problem with the MP34 at range. It is the fact that it requires a 7HK pretty fast, which at that point is a third of your magsize, requiring an accuracy of 33% at these ranges. Further we are looking at a gun that has the same spread stats as the other SMGs: A base spread of 0.2, a max spread of 3 and a spread increase per shot of 0.25. The MP34 gets inaccurate rather fast. The PP-2000 had a base spread of 0.4 a max spread of 2, I believe, and a SIPS of 0.076 and still fired faster than the MP34 with a slightly better damage model overall and it still did not work very good as a long-range weapon.
    -
    The claim from DICE that the MP34 is tendencially the long-range option where you can "counter snipers" is simply wrong. Even with the higher ROF and faster bullets you do have severe trade-offs like a magsize where you can likely only kill one guy with, on 64 player servers. It is just not worth it.

    For the record, I've never suggested that this is a Medic weapon capable of countering snipers.

    I'm not suggesting that this be some sort of BF1 SLR Medic equivalent. All I'm saying is this is an SMG that you can rely on to damage targets and kill foes past sneezing distance

    When I say distance, I mean like 50 through 75ish meters. Maaaaaybe 100 if you're feeling especially froggy and the enemy is not responsive. I mean, they ARE SMG's guys. No one in their right mind would expect to engage from any further out and win, and shouldn't win
  • bran1986
    5827 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    @Gforce81 As I mentioned a couple of times before: The recoil and the ROF are not the problem with the MP34 at range. It is the fact that it requires a 7HK pretty fast, which at that point is a third of your magsize, requiring an accuracy of 33% at these ranges. Further we are looking at a gun that has the same spread stats as the other SMGs: A base spread of 0.2, a max spread of 3 and a spread increase per shot of 0.25. The MP34 gets inaccurate rather fast. The PP-2000 had a base spread of 0.4 a max spread of 2, I believe, and a SIPS of 0.076 and still fired faster than the MP34 with a slightly better damage model overall and it still did not work very good as a long-range weapon.
    -
    The claim from DICE that the MP34 is tendencially the long-range option where you can "counter snipers" is simply wrong. Even with the higher ROF and faster bullets you do have severe trade-offs like a magsize where you can likely only kill one guy with, on 64 player servers. It is just not worth it.

    When DICE did the dev talks video and Drunkkz3 mentioned the MP34 and how it could "compete with assault rifles at range", I couldn't wait to get my hands on this gun. Then I tried it and I couldn't believe how bad it is. Then I read the symthic stats and saw the start of the 6 btk range on smgs is just 25 meters and you start to see why the smgs are utter crap. The spread on smgs is awful. I n order to even shoot a bullet straight you have to slow down so fast, or put the gun in single fire mode, but it doesn't matter since you need that extra bullet at 25 meters, where assault rifles and lmgs(which also get a 4btk range) are a 5 btk out to 50 meters.
  • MachoFantast1c0
    2060 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    @Gforce81 As I mentioned a couple of times before: The recoil and the ROF are not the problem with the MP34 at range. It is the fact that it requires a 7HK pretty fast, which at that point is a third of your magsize, requiring an accuracy of 33% at these ranges. Further we are looking at a gun that has the same spread stats as the other SMGs: A base spread of 0.2, a max spread of 3 and a spread increase per shot of 0.25. The MP34 gets inaccurate rather fast. The PP-2000 had a base spread of 0.4 a max spread of 2, I believe, and a SIPS of 0.076 and still fired faster than the MP34 with a slightly better damage model overall and it still did not work very good as a long-range weapon.
    -
    The claim from DICE that the MP34 is tendencially the long-range option where you can "counter snipers" is simply wrong. Even with the higher ROF and faster bullets you do have severe trade-offs like a magsize where you can likely only kill one guy with, on 64 player servers. It is just not worth it.

    When DICE did the dev talks video and Drunkkz3 mentioned the MP34 and how it could "compete with assault rifles at range", I couldn't wait to get my hands on this gun. Then I tried it and I couldn't believe how bad it is. Then I read the symthic stats and saw the start of the 6 btk range on smgs is just 25 meters and you start to see why the smgs are utter crap. The spread on smgs is awful. I n order to even shoot a bullet straight you have to slow down so fast, or put the gun in single fire mode, but it doesn't matter since you need that extra bullet at 25 meters, where assault rifles and lmgs(which also get a 4btk range) are a 5 btk out to 50 meters.

    Either DRUNKKZ3 is out of the loop, or is seriously out of touch. It can compete alright, as long as the AR user abstains from shooting back.
  • Foot_Guard_Tomei
    438 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    I am craving for a specific weapon :#
    Already happy user of MP34 with bayonet.

    http://modernfirearms.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/n11.jpg
  • SpoopyNooper
    17 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    if you want an smg with range just use the mp40 and spec it all the way down the right side I can get kills out to 100-150 meters with tapfiring the vertical recoil is the only thing you will need to compensate for but even then it's a very controllable smg as long as you spec it correctly
  • VincentNZ
    3874 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Gforce81 wrote: »
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    @Gforce81 As I mentioned a couple of times before: The recoil and the ROF are not the problem with the MP34 at range. It is the fact that it requires a 7HK pretty fast, which at that point is a third of your magsize, requiring an accuracy of 33% at these ranges. Further we are looking at a gun that has the same spread stats as the other SMGs: A base spread of 0.2, a max spread of 3 and a spread increase per shot of 0.25. The MP34 gets inaccurate rather fast. The PP-2000 had a base spread of 0.4 a max spread of 2, I believe, and a SIPS of 0.076 and still fired faster than the MP34 with a slightly better damage model overall and it still did not work very good as a long-range weapon.
    -
    The claim from DICE that the MP34 is tendencially the long-range option where you can "counter snipers" is simply wrong. Even with the higher ROF and faster bullets you do have severe trade-offs like a magsize where you can likely only kill one guy with, on 64 player servers. It is just not worth it.

    For the record, I've never suggested that this is a Medic weapon capable of countering snipers.

    I'm not suggesting that this be some sort of BF1 SLR Medic equivalent. All I'm saying is this is an SMG that you can rely on to damage targets and kill foes past sneezing distance

    When I say distance, I mean like 50 through 75ish meters. Maaaaaybe 100 if you're feeling especially froggy and the enemy is not responsive. I mean, they ARE SMG's guys. No one in their right mind would expect to engage from any further out and win, and shouldn't win

    I think it was in an official video where someone said that it was the SMG counter to snipers or something similarily silly. I was referring to that, not you, sorry if that came across wrong. I agree that the MP34 is likely the longest range SMG you can use, but it comes with huge trade-offs. And any SMG, especially the MP34, can not compete with an AR, at medium to long range. What the MP34 can do is to hit ranged targets more reliably at higher ranges, than other SMGs.
    I saw a video on DRUNKKZ3's Twitter feed a couple of days ago where he killed three guys with the MP34 at 10-25m with the caption "it's not a meme". I still call it a meme, because he could have pulled of the same thing with any other weapon.
  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    857 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Through in a couple SLR's and the Medic class is all good, just something for the Hamada style maps. I'm really enjoying the MP.28 at the moment, it seem's like a really solid all rounder.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1330 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Worst thing DICE can do is give Medics a mid range weapon. Shooting from range and healing yourself was OP in BF1, and DICE caught on. What they need to do is increase bullet velocity and have a longer damage drop off.
  • xKusagamix
    1071 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The Medic class is UP by it weapon variant, it's the awful SMGs that only good for hip fire at CQB. They can do nothing against Sniper rifle, that's for sure, but then even at CQB they still being beaten by Assault guns, and why the heck that they give the Support Class Shotguns, isn't it should be a gun variant for Medic class because they're supposed to be fearful at CQB?

    AR/SMG or what, if they want the Medic to be at least dominate at CQB then give them guns that really great at it, not by limited it by SMGs for the CQB sake.
  • VindictiV_V
    1347 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Yes but the lack of versatile gameplay for the medics is only one issues.

    The other issue is that it "looks" like medics are supposed to be good at close engagements. Fact is that they are not. Pretty much all smgs can easily be dominated by other weapons at this range. So the smgs dont even work in their own niche.

    The asaults get everything in this game. The most powerful ranged weapons in the game and then DICE for some reason gave them the second most powerful weapon in cqb. The m1907 will beat every single smg in the game except the 900 rpm Suomi, but has greater midrange capabilities than the Suomi lol. Suomi will go to a 6 btk at just 25 meters, while the m1907 can five hit kill out to 50 meters.

    So much this. And even if you are to take the fact that "the M1907 just laughs at any SMG" out of the equation, medics' niche is ONLY up to 9m.
    First: we can agree that outside of domination the average engagement range is FAR from a puny 9m.
    Second: One less BTK advantage for the SMGs is insignificant. It doesn't makes a difference when we're talking about weapons with 600+ RPM like STG44, M1907 and the sturmgewehr 1-5. Taking them one BTK more to kill is insignificant in terms of time because their RoF is faster than all SMGs beside the suomi and thompson.
  • GirlMisfit
    109 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    One of the things I loved about BF1 was that I could just buy access to most weapon without leveling up. BF1 gave me a core list of firearms to choose from. I hate this change so much I stopped playing medic unless asked my old squad mates from BF1. I'm forced into a weapon that requires me to get as close as possible to use and then I still get owned by a shot gun or a an assult rifle. I was never a high kill ratio medic but was a high ratio reviver but often the smoke I throw doesn't last the time it takes me to run to a down player and revive them.

    The medic class just doesn't feel fun to play anymore compared to what the other classes can do.
  • DingoKillr
    3922 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    @Gforce81 the issue is what are Medic for in BFV with CQB, melee boost, sprint and unlimited health they are meant to mix it up close not sit back. Unfortunately many still want BF1 being able to kill the enemy and then go revive to do that Medic need a longer range weapon and that is not going to happen with the current classes.

    Some of the changes suggested for SMG will either be small or not at all
    ROF increase will see more recoil.
    Velocity changes unlike as that make harder for SMG to act over AR/LMG at long range on moving targets.
    BTK decrease not likely many AR/LMG would then be overshadowed at ranged.
    Damage drop off increase sure but I doubt it move back to beta, so likely to be small.

    The biggest issues I see with Medic is the TTD, players(including myself) not using smoke and dragging into cover. Get those changes and Medic will be a different.

    As an option moving SLR from Recon to Medic and moving SMG to Recon, include adjusting the classes. So Medics can focus on heal and revive and Recon can focus on Anti-Infantry at either CQB or Long Range. This would make the SLR more like Assault SA. I doubt this will happen.


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