SMGs still suck

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  • bran1986
    5794 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    y_j_es_i wrote: »
    You can’t reasonably expect SMGs to ever be able to compete with ARs and LMGs at medium range.

    What the medic class needs is more diversity in the weapons it can equip

    I do not agree, the medic needs to be in the thick of it to actually heal and revive, if he has the pseudo-snipers of BF1 he will just sit back with the supports and the scouts. The concept of giving them the SMGs is fine. The implementation is not, because the SMGs do not fill a niche, but are underpowered at every range. Further their inter-class balance is totally off with a too wide variety of ROF.

    @VindictiVagabond I have a theory that DICE was going to do weapon balance similar to BF1. That medics would have received the slower firing smgs so they could have something for more cqb maps(Devastation, Rotterdam)similar to how Medics got the m1907, autoloaders, and later the Fedorov. Assaults would have received the more fast firing smgs like the Thompson and the Suomi. Then DICE decided late on to give all the smgs to the medic class and this is why the smg balance is so completely off between the faster firing smgs and the slower firing smgs.
  • VindictiV_V
    1347 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    y_j_es_i wrote: »
    You can’t reasonably expect SMGs to ever be able to compete with ARs and LMGs at medium range.

    What the medic class needs is more diversity in the weapons it can equip

    I do not agree, the medic needs to be in the thick of it to actually heal and revive, if he has the pseudo-snipers of BF1 he will just sit back with the supports and the scouts. The concept of giving them the SMGs is fine. The implementation is not, because the SMGs do not fill a niche, but are underpowered at every range. Further their inter-class balance is totally off with a too wide variety of ROF.

    @VindictiVagabond I have a theory that DICE was going to do weapon balance similar to BF1. That medics would have received the slower firing smgs so they could have something for more cqb maps(Devastation, Rotterdam)similar to how Medics got the m1907, autoloaders, and later the Fedorov. Assaults would have received the more fast firing smgs like the Thompson and the Suomi. Then DICE decided late on to give all the smgs to the medic class and this is why the smg balance is so completely off between the faster firing smgs and the slower firing smgs.

    Interesting. Sadly, in all cases, they really done F-ed it up. They need to fix it like I described earlier if we want to have a semblance of "intra-smg" balance but also to have our niche back. Demi-measures won't cut it. Drastic and quick measures are needed. I don't want to wait until february or march for medics to stop feeling gimped. I'v barely played bf5 because of it and the notion of having to wait until at the very least january's patch so we can get our due buff really turns me away from the game.
  • bigjon
    32 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I've been finding the mp40 great
  • Player_dhfjh4re
    137 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Really?
    I've played a round of conquest as a medic and I had a blast with the sten. Hipfiring, most of the time, but a few aimed shots as well.
    It's better used as a close range weapon - as LOGIC would suggest -, but NOW it works just fine and I manage to get more kills, way faster.
  • bran1986
    5794 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Really?
    I've played a round of conquest as a medic and I had a blast with the sten. Hipfiring, most of the time, but a few aimed shots as well.
    It's better used as a close range weapon - as LOGIC would suggest -, but NOW it works just fine and I manage to get more kills, way faster.

    LOGIC would suggest that true, but the Sten is a mediocre gun in cqb because assault and supports will utterly destroy you in your supposed optimal range.
  • PaulKariyaDucks
    19 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Did they actually do anything to them? I feel no difference at all.
  • Dral13
    350 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    KE7 still wrecks SMGs at all but the most extreme Cqc.
  • CAPSLOCK_CONRAD
    45 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Almost all weapons wrecks SMGs at almost all ranges...
  • CooolBreeze
    48 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    This is easy. DICE/EA have forgotten what Battlefield is, instead, they are green-eyed monsters. They see PUBG, they see Fortnite, they still see CoD, they want what those games have, which is player base and lots of money. What they fail to understand is putting in elements of inferior games will not make your game better. In essence, they have brushed aside their own extremely loyal player base to try t get others' player base. In the real world that is not logical. In the corporate world money is king and it is totally logical. If they actually catered to their loyal player base the money would take care of itself, but they want more and more money so what we get is this abomination called BFV. BFV is the logical conclusion of the last three games. BF4, terrible opening bugs everywhere, BF1 even worse and the loss of rentable, controllable servers outcry from the community, then some action and RSP was born. Totally not what we were accustomed to, but enough to satisfy communities and make the game a little more playable and enjoyable. Then they release BFV the same way as BF1. The sad part is we all bought this broken game and we knew it was broken. We are as much to blame for crappy weapon balance, no RSP, and the myriad of other issues that this game brings to us. These threads complaining about class guns, gadgets, or anything should be eliminated. We did this to ourselves and the only way to get our game back is with our wallets. We have to express our outrage over DICE/EA ruining Battlefield for the sake of being like Fortnite, by not supporting them financially. It is the only language corporations understand.
  • BL4CK_W4LL_
    731 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 2018
    I would trade damage fall off on SMG for some horizontal stability on the high rpm smgs. It's the worst SMG recoil of any battlefield.

    Cant even burst fire properly without the crosshairs going every which way
  • kleerkoat
    39 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    grind to Medic lvl 20 and try the Thompson.

    i hope so, if it's not a game changer i"m done with being a medic, which i've played since 3. very upset.

  • bran1986
    5794 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    kleerkoat wrote: »
    grind to Medic lvl 20 and try the Thompson.

    i hope so, if it's not a game changer i"m done with being a medic, which i've played since 3. very upset.

    The Thompson is ok but you won't hit anything consistently past 15 meters.
  • PixelSquish
    220 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    kleerkoat wrote: »
    grind to Medic lvl 20 and try the Thompson.

    i hope so, if it's not a game changer i"m done with being a medic, which i've played since 3. very upset.

    I think the EMP and MP34 have the least recoil of the bunch
  • Aegis_Kleais
    374 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 2018
    I tried to stand still and fire my SMG in anything more than a 2-3 round burst (ADS), and I've noticed ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE to the ability to keep the recoil under control. Ignoring the fact that the netcode trumps any change made, it seems like one of the major traits they were applying to the SMGs has next to no effect.
  • lionking7001
    222 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I don't know if pc is different but on Xbox ADS is virtually impossible at any range!
  • WittmannBaron
    37 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Close to mid range still horrible, complete crap.
  • BL4CK_W4LL_
    731 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I tried to stand still and fire my SMG in anything more than a 2-3 round burst (ADS), and I've noticed ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE to the ability to keep the recoil under control. Ignoring the fact that the netcode trumps any change made, it seems like one of the major traits they were applying to the SMGs has next to no effect.

    The first shot recoil multiplier combined with the large horizontal recoil coefficient on all smgs above 600rpm make burst firing extremely inaccurate/clunky..... at least on console.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5749 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Welcome to Dice's logic. Listen to all the complains and do the exactly opposite. SMGs suck? Let's buff ARs because why not? Tanks suck? Time to buff panzerfaust because why not? The ride never ends and we're stuck inside of it.
  • Major_Pungspark
    1488 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Welcome to Dice's logic. Listen to all the complains and do the exactly opposite. SMGs suck? Let's buff ARs because why not? Tanks suck? Time to buff panzerfaust because why not? The ride never ends and we're stuck inside of it.

    Ar:s rpobably have kind of a buff nerf I think, something horrible have happened to their spread I think or it was just me.
  • bran1986
    5794 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I tried to stand still and fire my SMG in anything more than a 2-3 round burst (ADS), and I've noticed ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE to the ability to keep the recoil under control. Ignoring the fact that the netcode trumps any change made, it seems like one of the major traits they were applying to the SMGs has next to no effect.

    The first shot recoil multiplier combined with the large horizontal recoil coefficient on all smgs above 600rpm make burst firing extremely inaccurate/clunky..... at least on console.

    This is why the MP34 at 599 rpm might be a good contender for best all around smg. The 20 round magazine and 60 rounds if ammo you spawn with hurts but it gives you the best cqb/mid range(ish) capability in the game.
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