The "core" community = loud minority

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Comments

  • boutneus
    2484 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Entertaining thread. My guess is that the people who bought bfV actually liked the twitch shooter TTK style. But since a lot of people don’t (myself included) and sales are down Dice is trying to cater more to the ‘casual crowd’. Personally I prefer a chance to react to incoming fire instead of having to check every nook and cranny for a camper who can instakill you.
    But now they are alienating the small group of people who bought bfV exactly because they like the twitch style. Should have just gone for a wellmade HC mode and please both. Already dropped the ball on that in bf1.
    Amazing how hard can it be to make a decent HC mode? Limited HUDS, no 3D spot (yes on map) first person view vehicles and extra damage (maybe 120~150%) on the guns. Also NO teamkilling (just annoying and promotes trolling). And make sure your allied team has proper Doritos on them so you know who is who
  • xBCxSEALxTEAMx6
    1492 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    TLDR but casual players aren't going to be the ones making Dice/EA money. If you're the type a guy who logs maybe a couple hours a week i can't imagine that you'd ever pay real money for the customization and such since this is a live service with no paid DLC.

    The "core" community aren't the hardcore players by any means. (no one i know inluding myself has ever liked BF hardcore modes. It's a niche thing).Many people that are refereed to when Westie, Danny, and others use the "core" community, are not the type who play it religiously and want the game to be a super tactical mil sim that appeals to a minority and not the masses. They're referring to the people who will buy their games and actively participate, no matter if they're playing hardcore, normal, TDM, Squad Conquest, what have you. The core audience for Battlefield is fairly large and very vocal, and this new ttk change has alienated a huge chunk of the community.

    On top of that, this has done exactly what Dice promised wouldn't happen, splitting of the community. Before the ttk change, the community was pretty well put together but they've made an irreversible decision that will most likely not bring in more casual players while also annoying the actual fans of the game. If they decide to revert back to the original ttk, a portion of the community will now be pissed off where they weren't before, so they've essentially shot themselves in the foot no matter what they do from here on out.

    Dice spent more than a year crafting this game to be more tactical, squad focused, and both punishing yet extremely rewarding. This is how it was marketed for the most part. The game was praised for its excellent gunplay more than anything. Yet now they've thrown that away as a knee jerk reaction to data that is very likely skewed. Yes, players arent coming back to play the game, but who says it's because the gunplay is difficult? Maybe it's because the game is a buggy mess instead? Or because there'es a lack of content? I doubt their data can prove the ttk is the issue whatsoever (especially considering one frame deaths are barely fixed which they said should likely no longer be an issue).

    Whether you like the new ttk, thats fine. Everyone has their own preferences. But Dice is clearly going back on their own vision while barely communicating with the player base trying to run a live service that has only been frustrating. They should've been much more thoughtful about how they rolled out these ttk changes or did long term testing before rolling them out.

    Respectully, i stopped reading after the first sentence. Casuals are most the ONLY ones who are going make EA/DICE money lol. That's just the fact of it. Tryhards are on those hardcore PC games, and if that's where they wanted it to go, that'l never happen on BF. If that's how they "advertised" it to you, or what the you tubers told you, then you got robbed. BF is BF. Not Squad or those tactical PC games. Anyhow, they're a very small community, as compared to the tens of millions this game sells too.

    Clearly if you read my post you'd understand my point and that most people in the core community don't want a milsim or anything even resembling it. And if you're not going to read it then dont comment on it. If you're going to be on this forum at least be productive

    Don't lecture people. It sounds elitist, and i despise it. Many of us do. But that's the problem. People just don't care what you have to say over on Reddit or You Tube.

    What's Jacks numbers as compared to BF 1? Is it cut in half? How about Westie? There's a guy was 150k easy. He's now down to 50k. Same with Levelcap. They're all small potatoes. As is Reddit. What do they have?

    Why? We're done listening to them. That simple. The BF "core community', is the 20 million who buy the game. Not a bunch of out of work elitists over on reddit and you tube. I hope my statement was "productive" enough for you. If not, too bad.
  • Buick72
    124 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Buick72 wrote: »
    Skitelz7 wrote: »
    What EA/DICE is doing wrong is trying to get the casual community to move into Battlefield.
    That's never going to happen.


    Let's just brainstorm for a second. What if their battle royale mode is a succes? It's defenitly going the most beatifull one with the engine the game has. What if, it's that big of a succes that people buy the game, just to play the battle royale mode. And what if, after a year, they actually make that game-mode free. And what if people are willing to pay to look as good as possible in that battle royale mode, making them millions of dollars. A lot of what if's, but it could happen.

    That is indeed a lot of if's, and while yes it would be the most beautiful.... I highly doubt it will be that successful. Between the iffy netcode, vehicle and gun balance choices, and terrible map design (at times) ... I don't see it happening. I see it ending up like incursions for BF1, DOA. Maybe that's just me being highly pessimistic. It might end up with a small following but I don't see it going anywhere unless it's free to begin with.

    (To clarify map design comment) Dice has this habit of making beautiful maps, then making one team face the sun as they attack the whole round. Or makes the sun glare off of the desert so bad it's hard to see through the glare and heat waves. Cinematic? Yes, very. Immersive? Yeah, sure. Fun to play while blind and getting shot in the face? No...

    Don't forget that PUBG was more popular, filled with bugs, with crappy performance and crappy netcode, then it is now, when everything is fixed. Serious players play PUBG, kids play fortnite ( and no I don't mean to insult adults who play it ). BF could be the mix of the two.

    True, but that was the beginning of the BR fad. People were willing to put up with all that till something else/better came along. I liked PUBG but quit due to how horribly it ran and functioned. I know I wouldn't go back to another BR, or FPS like it.

    But who knows, maybe it'll be amazing and draw a lot of players to the franchise.

  • misisipiRivrRat
    1004 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    paka90 wrote: »
    The older casual gamer here.....Comes in from work and jumps on the game for an hour or two.
    Just give us 2 types of game play servers......Normal servers..... all the crutches we have had in the last BF's game such as spotting.... newer TTK.....Like we used before.
    Hardcore servers for the serious player.....High TTK/TTD and no Hud Spotting or 3rd person in vehicles.
    At the moment this game seems like it doesn't know what it wants to be and its pissing all gamer types off.

    Just my opinion.......It could be a great game.

    Yes!
  • nmccormick2017
    98 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TLDR but casual players aren't going to be the ones making Dice/EA money. If you're the type a guy who logs maybe a couple hours a week i can't imagine that you'd ever pay real money for the customization and such since this is a live service with no paid DLC.

    The "core" community aren't the hardcore players by any means. (no one i know inluding myself has ever liked BF hardcore modes. It's a niche thing).Many people that are refereed to when Westie, Danny, and others use the "core" community, are not the type who play it religiously and want the game to be a super tactical mil sim that appeals to a minority and not the masses. They're referring to the people who will buy their games and actively participate, no matter if they're playing hardcore, normal, TDM, Squad Conquest, what have you. The core audience for Battlefield is fairly large and very vocal, and this new ttk change has alienated a huge chunk of the community.

    On top of that, this has done exactly what Dice promised wouldn't happen, splitting of the community. Before the ttk change, the community was pretty well put together but they've made an irreversible decision that will most likely not bring in more casual players while also annoying the actual fans of the game. If they decide to revert back to the original ttk, a portion of the community will now be pissed off where they weren't before, so they've essentially shot themselves in the foot no matter what they do from here on out.

    Dice spent more than a year crafting this game to be more tactical, squad focused, and both punishing yet extremely rewarding. This is how it was marketed for the most part. The game was praised for its excellent gunplay more than anything. Yet now they've thrown that away as a knee jerk reaction to data that is very likely skewed. Yes, players arent coming back to play the game, but who says it's because the gunplay is difficult? Maybe it's because the game is a buggy mess instead? Or because there'es a lack of content? I doubt their data can prove the ttk is the issue whatsoever (especially considering one frame deaths are barely fixed which they said should likely no longer be an issue).

    Whether you like the new ttk, thats fine. Everyone has their own preferences. But Dice is clearly going back on their own vision while barely communicating with the player base trying to run a live service that has only been frustrating. They should've been much more thoughtful about how they rolled out these ttk changes or did long term testing before rolling them out.

    Respectully, i stopped reading after the first sentence. Casuals are most the ONLY ones who are going make EA/DICE money lol. That's just the fact of it. Tryhards are on those hardcore PC games, and if that's where they wanted it to go, that'l never happen on BF. If that's how they "advertised" it to you, or what the you tubers told you, then you got robbed. BF is BF. Not Squad or those tactical PC games. Anyhow, they're a very small community, as compared to the tens of millions this game sells too.

    Clearly if you read my post you'd understand my point and that most people in the core community don't want a milsim or anything even resembling it. And if you're not going to read it then dont comment on it. If you're going to be on this forum at least be productive

    Don't lecture people. It sounds elitist, and i despise it. Many of us do. But that's the problem. People just don't care what you have to say over on Reddit or You Tube.

    What's Jacks numbers as compared to BF 1? Is it cut in half? How about Westie? There's a guy was 150k easy. He's now down to 50k. Same with Levelcap. They're all small potatoes. As is Reddit. What do they have?

    Why? We're done listening to them. That simple. The BF "core community', is the 20 million who buy the game. Not a bunch of out of work elitists over on reddit and you tube. I hope my statement was "productive" enough for you. If not, too bad.

    "Elitist" lol ok dude. Of course I can't speak to them but I doubt any of them think higher of themselves than anyone else in the community, giving your full opinion isn't a lecture. I though these forums were for meaningful discussion about the why and how to fix problems with the game and what Dice are doing or not doing right. Guess it's just for shitposting lol
  • xBCxSEALxTEAMx6
    1492 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    TLDR but casual players aren't going to be the ones making Dice/EA money. If you're the type a guy who logs maybe a couple hours a week i can't imagine that you'd ever pay real money for the customization and such since this is a live service with no paid DLC.

    The "core" community aren't the hardcore players by any means. (no one i know inluding myself has ever liked BF hardcore modes. It's a niche thing).Many people that are refereed to when Westie, Danny, and others use the "core" community, are not the type who play it religiously and want the game to be a super tactical mil sim that appeals to a minority and not the masses. They're referring to the people who will buy their games and actively participate, no matter if they're playing hardcore, normal, TDM, Squad Conquest, what have you. The core audience for Battlefield is fairly large and very vocal, and this new ttk change has alienated a huge chunk of the community.

    On top of that, this has done exactly what Dice promised wouldn't happen, splitting of the community. Before the ttk change, the community was pretty well put together but they've made an irreversible decision that will most likely not bring in more casual players while also annoying the actual fans of the game. If they decide to revert back to the original ttk, a portion of the community will now be pissed off where they weren't before, so they've essentially shot themselves in the foot no matter what they do from here on out.

    Dice spent more than a year crafting this game to be more tactical, squad focused, and both punishing yet extremely rewarding. This is how it was marketed for the most part. The game was praised for its excellent gunplay more than anything. Yet now they've thrown that away as a knee jerk reaction to data that is very likely skewed. Yes, players arent coming back to play the game, but who says it's because the gunplay is difficult? Maybe it's because the game is a buggy mess instead? Or because there'es a lack of content? I doubt their data can prove the ttk is the issue whatsoever (especially considering one frame deaths are barely fixed which they said should likely no longer be an issue).

    Whether you like the new ttk, thats fine. Everyone has their own preferences. But Dice is clearly going back on their own vision while barely communicating with the player base trying to run a live service that has only been frustrating. They should've been much more thoughtful about how they rolled out these ttk changes or did long term testing before rolling them out.

    Respectully, i stopped reading after the first sentence. Casuals are most the ONLY ones who are going make EA/DICE money lol. That's just the fact of it. Tryhards are on those hardcore PC games, and if that's where they wanted it to go, that'l never happen on BF. If that's how they "advertised" it to you, or what the you tubers told you, then you got robbed. BF is BF. Not Squad or those tactical PC games. Anyhow, they're a very small community, as compared to the tens of millions this game sells too.

    Clearly if you read my post you'd understand my point and that most people in the core community don't want a milsim or anything even resembling it. And if you're not going to read it then dont comment on it. If you're going to be on this forum at least be productive

    Don't lecture people. It sounds elitist, and i despise it. Many of us do. But that's the problem. People just don't care what you have to say over on Reddit or You Tube.

    What's Jacks numbers as compared to BF 1? Is it cut in half? How about Westie? There's a guy was 150k easy. He's now down to 50k. Same with Levelcap. They're all small potatoes. As is Reddit. What do they have?

    Why? We're done listening to them. That simple. The BF "core community', is the 20 million who buy the game. Not a bunch of out of work elitists over on reddit and you tube. I hope my statement was "productive" enough for you. If not, too bad.

    "Elitist" lol ok dude. Of course I can't speak to them but I doubt any of them think higher of themselves than anyone else in the community, giving your full opinion isn't a lecture. I though these forums were for meaningful discussion about the why and how to fix problems with the game and what Dice are doing or not doing right. Guess it's just for shitposting lol

    Well, i wasn't doing that. Your first sentence was an incorrect statement. Of course EA caters to casuals who make them the money. So, if that was wrong, why would i read the rest of that whole thing? That's what happened there.
  • FillthyCasuall
    96 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Westie and many other Youtubers talk about "the core" community. Also many people on the forums think they represent the majority of the Battlefield players.
    Well, they are all wrong.

    It's not a small percentage of hardcore fans that determin the succes and sales of a game. It's the casual gamer. That's were the money is. They just play, enjoy and spend money. They don't post or record their ( mostly negative ) opinions online and keep their money becaues they are good enough to unlock the skins by playing good.

    You see more topics on these forums complaining about performance from high-end PC users, not because they represent the majority, but because they spend more money on gaming, they are per definition, more hardcore gamers and they have a louder voice on forums. While in reality, most PC gamers have low to mid-range hardware. And the console community is much bigger then the PC community. Hell, even the mobile game community is bigger then the PC community these days.

    Take the BF V TTK for example. The "core community" feels like it was perfect at release. But they don't stop to realise that DICE has map statistics. They see who plays, how long and how. If they notice new and casual gamers start this game, run a few times, get killed instantly and start camping and stop capturing objectives after that, and then quit the game, they have a clear view that the TTK is only going to cause more people quitting then continueing to play it. Because when it comes to sales, they rather have 100000 casual players that have fun and buy cosmetics, then 10000 "core" gamers that will never be satisfied and don't spend money at all.

    I like the TTK 1.0 in BF1 and I like the TTK 2.0 in BF V. Simply becaues it provides more action, more revives, less camping, more exiting 1vs1 and 1vs2 battles, etc... And to be 100% honest, I manage to get higher scores and a higer KD with a higher TTK because I'm a rush and push player. And I know this is not a popular opinion among the "core" community. But since I've played Battlefield 1942, Battlefield BC2 and Battlefield 1, doesn't that make me a Battlefield gamer? Do you only belong to the "core" community if you played them all? Some might say "go play COD then". No, because COD has a low TTK, smaller maps, bad graphics, bad physics, etc... There is more to battlefield then just the TTK.

    I'm not saying my opinion represents the silant majority, but you have to keep in mind that there is a silent majority, and focus on the word "majority". For every person who writes something on the forums or reddit, there are 10-20 players who don't write anything and just try to enjoy games, without getting involed in discussions about stuff like TTK.

    BF V is still WAY different compared to BF1:
    - No 3d spotting
    - The weapons and the way you have to handle them
    - Lower ammo/health
    - Smokes
    - No bohemouths, elite classes, horses
    - And the list goes on and one and on.

    I am 100% sure that all of you that manage to get at the top of the scoreboard with TTK 1.0 will stil get there after playing some time with TTk 2.0. Because tactics, your squad, the way you play with your class still play a major role in getting to the top of that scoreboard. The fact that westie cries that he can no longer kill 2-3 enemies with one magazine while flanking, actually bothers me. He could just trow a grenade and then start shooting, and the result will still be 2-3 deaths. But Youtubers who already start crying after testing it out for at least a couple of days...and only because the "core" community will reply and like their videos…is creating a toxic environtment within the BF community.

    So my message to the "core" community. At least give all the current and future changes a try before you create 40-page topics about something you haven't even experienced yet. And know that 1000 posts can not influence DICE in to changing tactics if their statistics show another reality, then the reality that is formed on forums.

    Knowing that this post is nog going to be popular in the "core" community. Let's try to keep the flaming and insulting to a minimum :)

    BF1 was a succes because it attracted the casual gamer. Just have a look at google trends:
    https://g.co/trends/TW8eT

    I honestly don't see what is wrong with the TTK now. I've had better outcomes with the new TTK then previous. It feels so much better to get a hit marker and have the time to turn and return fire regardless if i die or not. I'm loving the ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ out of it, they are not. Sucks to suck.
  • herodes87
    1290 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    paka90 wrote: »
    The older casual gamer here.....Comes in from work and jumps on the game for an hour or two.
    Just give us 2 types of game play servers......Normal servers..... all the crutches we have had in the last BF's game such as spotting.... newer TTK.....Like we used before.
    Hardcore servers for the serious player.....High TTK/TTD and no Hud Spotting or 3rd person in vehicles.
    At the moment this game seems like it doesn't know what it wants to be and its pissing all gamer types off.

    Just my opinion.......It could be a great game.

    This! I enjoyed BBC2,BF3, BF4 and BF1 because of that.

    If i want it Harder i Play " Day of Infamy " or "Rising Storm 2". I Play them sometimes because i Like them too but Battlefield is Casual and thats why i Loved it. Fast non stop Action were you don't need to Thing about Low ammo or Campers because you can easily Spot them with 3d spotting.
  • Dragam
    879 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    StormSaxon wrote: »
    Hardcore. Never missed it.
    I’d play it if they released it as it’s an easy mode for weapon boosting.
    Need sniper rifle kills. Play hardcore.
    Want to improve KD. Play hardcore.
    Want an easier game. Playhardcore.

    The downside of hardcore were team killers. Accidental and deliberate.
    You throw a grenade. A dumbo runs in after you throw the grenade you lose 100 points.
    You take a shot, dumbo steps infront. Dead. -100 points.
    Some one tries to melee the guy you just rocketed. -100 points. Kicked from server.

    Some virgin thinks you should be playing the game his way. Kills you.
    Some troll decides to troll you. Kills you.
    That was the down side of it.

    Yeah, i always stay away from games that has friendly fire... it's just an invitation to trolls to be massive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯...

    That aside, i do like the more realistic feeling hardcore gives.
  • Darrenbattlelog
    452 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    OP is right on in his observations. See now he has triggered out all the get gud,leet MLG pros. Heres something to ponder"core" community leet mlg pros. They changed ttk. Deal with it. If not, leave the game like you told all the players who complained the ttk was to fast when the game released. If you cant deal with it buy some Kleenex, and a pacifier and go to town. Keep the wambulance on speed dial.
  • Narfiam
    198 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 2018
    I totally agree with the OP.
    The TTK 1.0 defenders are only a loud minority.
    I'm sick of the example of twitter with the absurd hashtag being used as argument. A lot of people replying in twitter are just replying for snobbery for sure.
  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    857 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    herodes87 wrote: »
    paka90 wrote: »
    The older casual gamer here.....Comes in from work and jumps on the game for an hour or two.
    Just give us 2 types of game play servers......Normal servers..... all the crutches we have had in the last BF's game such as spotting.... newer TTK.....Like we used before.
    Hardcore servers for the serious player.....High TTK/TTD and no Hud Spotting or 3rd person in vehicles.
    At the moment this game seems like it doesn't know what it wants to be and its pissing all gamer types off.

    Just my opinion.......It could be a great game.

    This! I enjoyed BBC2,BF3, BF4 and BF1 because of that.

    If i want it Harder i Play " Day of Infamy " or "Rising Storm 2". I Play them sometimes because i Like them too but Battlefield is Casual and thats why i Loved it. Fast non stop Action were you don't need to Thing about Low ammo or Campers because you can easily Spot them with 3d spotting.

    It wouldn't break the game for me, but I really like the Attrition, it means I'm always a bit more switched on when I play and the lack of spotting goes both ways, I've gotten away with some truly cheeky flanks.
  • fakemon64
    898 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member



    Back when dice advertised this game as skill and squad based. Before they decided to start catering to "noobs"
  • ITS_BOB_GNARLY
    2190 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Narfiam wrote: »
    I totally agree with the OP.
    The TTK 1.0 defenders are only a loud minority.
    I'm sick of the example of twitter with the absurd hashtag being used as argument. A lot of people replying in twitter are just replying for snobbery for sure.

    LOL

    The specific thread set aside for TTK feedback is overwhelmingly against the new TTK. Sorry bud, you're the minority on this. But you keep your head in the sand.
  • HardAimedKid
    11386 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 2018
    Dice stated themselves that the original ttk was celebrated by most of the community. They also stated that they were going to do this anyways to help out subpar players with wanting to play. I saw those subpar players last night, it didn't help them.

    image0.png

    I highly doubt in such a staunch move that dice would say it's WIDELY ACCEPTED if it wasn't. Your post is moot. It's a cry thread about people crying, congrats..
  • fakemon64
    898 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 2018
    Requote
  • fakemon64
    898 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    fakemon64 wrote: »
    misquote

  • HardAimedKid
    11386 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Also I'll add that I understand that they're trying to keep players, but adding a bullet or 2 or 3 to the equation isn't going to keep "frustrated" players around because they're still going to get dominated.
  • StingX71
    828 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Also I'll add that I understand that they're trying to keep players, but adding a bullet or 2 or 3 to the equation isn't going to keep "frustrated" players around because they're still going to get dominated.

    Exactly, their getting outplayed, extra bullet or two won't stop that. Fact is, DICE doesn't even now why they are leaving or where the frustration is coming from. Adding 32/48 player CQ server probably would be better imho. I'm a decent player, but find the 64 CQ a grind, if my KD was 1 or lower despite trying my best, I probably wouldn't play to be honest.
  • nmccormick2017
    98 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Narfiam wrote: »
    I totally agree with the OP.
    The TTK 1.0 defenders are only a loud minority.
    I'm sick of the example of twitter with the absurd hashtag being used as argument. A lot of people replying in twitter are just replying for snobbery for sure.

    LOL

    The specific thread set aside for TTK feedback is overwhelmingly against the new TTK. Sorry bud, you're the minority on this. But you keep your head in the sand.

    I thought i was going crazy praise the sun
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