SMGS are still a complete joke and so is the MEDIC class

13468925

Comments

  • bran1986
    5599 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member

    Yes. A FPS is foremost about killing. First Person SHOOTER. This isn't a moba or MMORPG or a surgeon simulator lite. Each and every class needs to have weapons with their own niche which, excluding thompson and suomi, isn't the case for the medic.

    Then why introduce a class like the MEDIC, that is supposed to HEAL and REVIVE, in the first place? If I wanted to make my game all about k/d, I would simply keep one class(assault in this game) with all of the current best guns.

    Nice strawman. Nobody said anything about KD. What I said is it's not because a class can heal or revive that the class should have garbage weapons like you can see in other game types such as mobas and MMOs where the healer is essentially just a defenseless healing/reviving station on legs. BF titles always were about having different category of weapons and classes cover different niches and all classes having a fair and equal chance (during faceoffs, not just against unsuspecting enemies) at different ranges. That's the issue with the medic class. It's not only that it doesn't have an advantage in CQC - which should be it's niche - (thanks to the M1907 and shotguns and the fact that ARs, LMGs and MMGs take the exact same amount of BTK as SMGs at 30m and under) but also the fact that as pretty much all maps in bf5 reward engaging enemies past 30m, the medic has garbage weapons to fight at those distances. Yes you can drop people past 30m with say the sten, MP40 or EMP but that will only reliably work against people that don't know you're there so you get the drop on them.

    The slow firing smgs need to be much more accurate out to 30-40 meters. The spread on them is ridiculous. How DICE let the balance go to release like this is baffling.
  • MrClev3r
    20 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »

    The slow firing smgs need to be much more accurate out to 30-40 meters. The spread on them is ridiculous. How DICE let the balance go to release like this is baffling.

    ^ This. Even when customized for ADS, the spread kills me every time, even when burst/tap firing.
  • bran1986
    5599 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 1
    MrClev3r wrote: »
    bran1986 wrote: »

    The slow firing smgs need to be much more accurate out to 30-40 meters. The spread on them is ridiculous. How DICE let the balance go to release like this is baffling.

    ^ This. Even when customized for ADS, the spread kills me every time, even when burst/tap firing.

    Definitely. The recoil is just awful and quite unpredictable.
  • Loki_Deezie
    867 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    All smg other than suomi and Thompson need a 100rof buff so they can start excelling in cqc. Right now most assault rifles have higher rof better accuracy and control over the smgs.

    The mp40 can keep its rof but increase its dmg fall off range and control to give us a more mis range smg. If not medics will be tied to cqc only unless u get the jump on someone outside 30m and even then its 50 50 whether they turn and 2 tap u with the m1a1.
  • VindictiV_V
    1347 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »

    Yes. A FPS is foremost about killing. First Person SHOOTER. This isn't a moba or MMORPG or a surgeon simulator lite. Each and every class needs to have weapons with their own niche which, excluding thompson and suomi, isn't the case for the medic.

    Then why introduce a class like the MEDIC, that is supposed to HEAL and REVIVE, in the first place? If I wanted to make my game all about k/d, I would simply keep one class(assault in this game) with all of the current best guns.

    Nice strawman. Nobody said anything about KD. What I said is it's not because a class can heal or revive that the class should have garbage weapons like you can see in other game types such as mobas and MMOs where the healer is essentially just a defenseless healing/reviving station on legs. BF titles always were about having different category of weapons and classes cover different niches and all classes having a fair and equal chance (during faceoffs, not just against unsuspecting enemies) at different ranges. That's the issue with the medic class. It's not only that it doesn't have an advantage in CQC - which should be it's niche - (thanks to the M1907 and shotguns and the fact that ARs, LMGs and MMGs take the exact same amount of BTK as SMGs at 30m and under) but also the fact that as pretty much all maps in bf5 reward engaging enemies past 30m, the medic has garbage weapons to fight at those distances. Yes you can drop people past 30m with say the sten, MP40 or EMP but that will only reliably work against people that don't know you're there so you get the drop on them.

    The slow firing smgs need to be much more accurate out to 30-40 meters. The spread on them is ridiculous. How DICE let the balance go to release like this is baffling.
    All smg other than suomi and Thompson need a 100rof buff so they can start excelling in cqc. Right now most assault rifles have higher rof better accuracy and control over the smgs.

    The mp40 can keep its rof but increase its dmg fall off range and control to give us a more mis range smg. If not medics will be tied to cqc only unless u get the jump on someone outside 30m and even then its 50 50 whether they turn and 2 tap u with the m1a1.

    Indeed to both of you. Under-600 RPM SMGs all need a RoF buff along with damage drop off buff so it follows the same increments as the ARs while also giving them a significant accuracy buff.
  • XEN_wunderwaffle
    284 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 2
    Except we're still waiting on that actual evidence that Medic is somehow underperforming.

    Cursory glance at tracker shows me that my Medic SPM of just over 500 is good enough for top 24%

    https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/psn/XEN_wunderwaffle/overview

    Meanwhile, the same stat for my 2nd best class of Assault is lower (472.04) yet puts me slightly higher in the top 23% for that class, so Medic clearly and cleanly rules SPM globally.

    As an aside I'm top 13% in Recon despite significantly lower SPM than all other classes.


    Meanwhile my Medic KPM of 1.06 is good for top 26%. A nearly identical 1.07 on Support results in a nearly identical top 25%. Assault is 1.15 and top 24%, so only ever so slightly above those two globally. Recon again brings up the rear at a measly 1.03 being good enough for top 12%

    Medic does seem to have the lowest K/D globally by a slight amount. My Support and Medic are near identical (1.82 vs 1.81) yet it's good for top 21% on Medic and only top 25% on Support. My guess is this has more to do with the "D" part of that, as playing medic you get killed going for revives often that you wouldn't have with any other class. It's killing potential is not significantly worse than other classes.

    Oh and Recon also loses in K/D if anyone cares. Literally bottom in every stat globally, but it's the top scoring Medic that needs buffs, apparently.
  • bran1986
    5599 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Except we're still waiting on that actual evidence that Medic is somehow underperforming.

    Cursory glance at tracker shows me that my Medic SPM of just over 500 is good enough for top 24%

    https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/psn/XEN_wunderwaffle/overview

    Meanwhile, the same stat for my 2nd best class of Assault is lower (472.04) yet puts me slightly higher in the top 23% for that class, so Medic clearly and cleanly rules SPM globally.

    As an aside I'm top 13% in Recon despite significantly lower SPM than all other classes.


    Meanwhile my Medic KPM of 1.06 is good for top 26%. A nearly identical 1.07 on Support results in a nearly identical top 25%. Assault is 1.15 and top 24%, so only ever so slightly above those two globally. Recon again brings up the rear at a measly 1.03 being good enough for top 12%

    Medic does seem to have the lowest K/D globally by a slight amount. My Support and Medic are near identical (1.82 vs 1.81) yet it's good for top 21% on Medic and only top 25% on Support. My guess is this has more to do with the "D" part of that, as playing medic you get killed going for revives often that you wouldn't have with any other class. It's killing potential is not significantly worse than other classes.

    Oh and Recon also loses in K/D if anyone cares. Literally bottom in every stat globally, but it's the top scoring Medic that needs buffs, apparently.

    You do realize those stats are only for people that have used Battletracker and not for everyone that plays the game right?
  • Major_Pungspark
    1389 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Maybe they should have given the medic class some kind of carbine. Maybe swap the M1 carbine to medic, the problem is that I feel that way to many people have fully automatic ones right now thanks to cheating that they dont take care of. They could have gotten the Ribeyrolle as kind of slow firing smg with longer range, but nooo...

    Anyway, I seem to be the one of the few saying it but really the horizontal recoil cant be this bad for such a low damage, low velocity weapon class. I can take some hipfire nerfs and trade for range.
  • XEN_wunderwaffle
    284 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 2
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Except we're still waiting on that actual evidence that Medic is somehow underperforming.

    Cursory glance at tracker shows me that my Medic SPM of just over 500 is good enough for top 24%

    https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/psn/XEN_wunderwaffle/overview

    Meanwhile, the same stat for my 2nd best class of Assault is lower (472.04) yet puts me slightly higher in the top 23% for that class, so Medic clearly and cleanly rules SPM globally.

    As an aside I'm top 13% in Recon despite significantly lower SPM than all other classes.


    Meanwhile my Medic KPM of 1.06 is good for top 26%. A nearly identical 1.07 on Support results in a nearly identical top 25%. Assault is 1.15 and top 24%, so only ever so slightly above those two globally. Recon again brings up the rear at a measly 1.03 being good enough for top 12%

    Medic does seem to have the lowest K/D globally by a slight amount. My Support and Medic are near identical (1.82 vs 1.81) yet it's good for top 21% on Medic and only top 25% on Support. My guess is this has more to do with the "D" part of that, as playing medic you get killed going for revives often that you wouldn't have with any other class. It's killing potential is not significantly worse than other classes.

    Oh and Recon also loses in K/D if anyone cares. Literally bottom in every stat globally, but it's the top scoring Medic that needs buffs, apparently.

    You do realize those stats are only for people that have used Battletracker and not for everyone that plays the game right?

    Is there a salient difference between the two? The sample size is literally tens of thousands of players.

    Its results at those numbers are not going to differ much if at all from the broader population.

    As I said waiting on Evidence that Medic is getting dumpstered in real games. Muh spreadsheetz =/= evidence
  • bran1986
    5599 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Maybe they should have given the medic class some kind of carbine. Maybe swap the M1 carbine to medic, the problem is that I feel that way to many people have fully automatic ones right now thanks to cheating that they dont take care of. They could have gotten the Ribeyrolle as kind of slow firing smg with longer range, but nooo...

    Anyway, I seem to be the one of the few saying it but really the horizontal recoil cant be this bad for such a low damage, low velocity weapon class. I can take some hipfire nerfs and trade for range.

    The ribeyrolles is really what the slow firing smgs should feel like.
  • XEN_wunderwaffle
    284 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Maybe they should have given the medic class some kind of carbine. Maybe swap the M1 carbine to medic, the problem is that I feel that way to many people have fully automatic ones right now thanks to cheating that they dont take care of. They could have gotten the Ribeyrolle as kind of slow firing smg with longer range, but nooo...

    Anyway, I seem to be the one of the few saying it but really the horizontal recoil cant be this bad for such a low damage, low velocity weapon class. I can take some hipfire nerfs and trade for range.

    The ribeyrolles is really what the slow firing smgs should feel like.

    thanks for again proving that many people are asking for their BF3/4 godmode Assault Medic again.

    All the obfuscation around that fact gets tiring. Just kill an Assault and steal his weapon if that's what you want.
  • Major_Pungspark
    1389 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Maybe they should have given the medic class some kind of carbine. Maybe swap the M1 carbine to medic, the problem is that I feel that way to many people have fully automatic ones right now thanks to cheating that they dont take care of. They could have gotten the Ribeyrolle as kind of slow firing smg with longer range, but nooo...

    Anyway, I seem to be the one of the few saying it but really the horizontal recoil cant be this bad for such a low damage, low velocity weapon class. I can take some hipfire nerfs and trade for range.

    The ribeyrolles is really what the slow firing smgs should feel like.

    thanks for again proving that many people are asking for their BF3/4 godmode Assault Medic again.

    All the obfuscation around that fact gets tiring. Just kill an Assault and steal his weapon if that's what you want.

    Well, they are **** on more open maps and something should/need to be done. They really need an option for more open maps, if there is an adjustment of the smgs that we have or some weapon swap, I guess DICE will do something, and considering it is DICE , it will either be something overkill or something that dont change anything.
  • XEN_wunderwaffle
    284 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Maybe they should have given the medic class some kind of carbine. Maybe swap the M1 carbine to medic, the problem is that I feel that way to many people have fully automatic ones right now thanks to cheating that they dont take care of. They could have gotten the Ribeyrolle as kind of slow firing smg with longer range, but nooo...

    Anyway, I seem to be the one of the few saying it but really the horizontal recoil cant be this bad for such a low damage, low velocity weapon class. I can take some hipfire nerfs and trade for range.

    The ribeyrolles is really what the slow firing smgs should feel like.

    thanks for again proving that many people are asking for their BF3/4 godmode Assault Medic again.

    All the obfuscation around that fact gets tiring. Just kill an Assault and steal his weapon if that's what you want.

    Well, they are **** on more open maps and something should/need to be done. They really need an option for more open maps, if there is an adjustment of the smgs that we have or some weapon swap, I guess DICE will do something, and considering it is DICE , it will either be something overkill or something that dont change anything.

    yeah they're crap on open maps which is why I have topscore games on maps like Hamada and Twisted Steel.

    The maps are so full of clutter and cover in flag burn zones (especially once people have started building walls and crap) that you can basically play CQB weapons on the most open maps (save maybe Panzerstorm, which is kind of badly designed) and still shred people. Especially with Medic, who has smoke to help them negate long range weapons, move around the map, flank and control their engagement distances to nearly always be to their advantage.

    Weapon balance doesn't exist in a vaccum. If medic had mid-long range dominant AR's/SLR's in the current metagame it'd be brokenly good at sitting 30+m back to endlessly frag at near zero risk. This is entirely obvious if you've ever picked up an Assault class weapon like G43 or Ribey as medic, and controlled your engagements to be midrange and up where you always have time to get to cover and heal if you take fire (I have, it generally results in large killstreaks).

    Medic having to close to CQB is currently the only thing keeping it from making every other class obsolete at infantry combat. If it had AR's, Assault would be the only other class ever worth using on foot, and solely to frag tanks. Rotterdam, Devastation, Fjell etc. would be like old Metro, Locker, Seine E.g. 75% medics, a support engineer or two in the tank if its there, and then a bunch of potatoes all playing the wrong class and hurting their team because they aren't on the meta heal/revive/kill train with everyone else.

    The fact that Assault is already so brokenly good at getting frags with a mere 40 health regen after several seconds should be a hint to how a class with the same weapons but 100 health regen on demand would play out.
  • PixelSquish
    220 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    They just need to buff the current SMG's a bit more
  • Pyr0Plazma
    375 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Maybe they should have given the medic class some kind of carbine. Maybe swap the M1 carbine to medic, the problem is that I feel that way to many people have fully automatic ones right now thanks to cheating that they dont take care of. They could have gotten the Ribeyrolle as kind of slow firing smg with longer range, but nooo...

    Anyway, I seem to be the one of the few saying it but really the horizontal recoil cant be this bad for such a low damage, low velocity weapon class. I can take some hipfire nerfs and trade for range.

    The ribeyrolles is really what the slow firing smgs should feel like.

    thanks for again proving that many people are asking for their BF3/4 godmode Assault Medic again.

    All the obfuscation around that fact gets tiring. Just kill an Assault and steal his weapon if that's what you want.

    He means their recoil/spread pattern should mirror it not literally be identical my friend. They would still have the high damage falloff but have enough accuracy to at least have a chance at a distance.
  • bran1986
    5599 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Maybe they should have given the medic class some kind of carbine. Maybe swap the M1 carbine to medic, the problem is that I feel that way to many people have fully automatic ones right now thanks to cheating that they dont take care of. They could have gotten the Ribeyrolle as kind of slow firing smg with longer range, but nooo...

    Anyway, I seem to be the one of the few saying it but really the horizontal recoil cant be this bad for such a low damage, low velocity weapon class. I can take some hipfire nerfs and trade for range.

    The ribeyrolles is really what the slow firing smgs should feel like.

    thanks for again proving that many people are asking for their BF3/4 godmode Assault Medic again.

    All the obfuscation around that fact gets tiring. Just kill an Assault and steal his weapon if that's what you want.

    He means their recoil/spread pattern should mirror it not literally be identical my friend. They would still have the high damage falloff but have enough accuracy to at least have a chance at a distance.

    Damage dropoff, slower rate of fire, slower bullet velocity, more bullet drag. All these keep the smgs in check against the other classes, there is no need for smgs to have this much spread.
  • Vinotauro
    41 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I'm not sure I understand the hate. I do just fine with SMGs though I will admit not as good as assault.
  • Cropulus
    258 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Malecite wrote: »
    Xbon wrote: »
    rock paper scissors gameplay. they excel at short range and you're meant to be healing your teammates as your primary goal, less focus on killing others.

    Show me how they excel at short range.

    Come on link the weapon stats that show the SMG's are even better IN ONE AREA than the assault rifles.

    But you can't because I've seen the symthic stats and played both classes.

    I'm sick and tired of people saying "healing and revies" are your main goal. NO they aren't. Winning the match is the main goal and if you are playing a class that can't shoot back at mid range, and gets stomped at short range by other classes you might as well pick a different class.

    the tommy gun is insane in CQB. just played a round with it in domination

    Thomson and Suomi are outrageously good at CQB, and Sten and MP-40 are great all-rounders. You still want to avoid anything mid-range and beyond, but if you play the class "correctly" you can dominate. Most people complaining about how bad the Medic is probably just aren't very good players to begin with.

    I agree with your assessment, but do not you agree that when shooting an smg while ads’ing the recoil is insane? When ads’ing with an STG 44 or any other assault rifle the recoil is almost non existent. The problem is that you already need an insane amount of bullets for anything out of cqb range. I do not fire at people due to that on most occasions, but sometimes you just do not have any other option than shooting back as you are trying to get to an objective or are surprised somewhere. Even cqb range you still get outperformed by any other class.

    Spread is inconsistent as I have experienced instances where I am on target while hipfiring within 10 meters and more than 10 bullets out of 12 do not connect to the target.

    I do pretty well with score per minute and kd ratio, so I cannot really complain. I get killed a lot because I PTFO. I hear some people in this chain say, just heal and revive and look at your score per minute as your class is not made to kill people as primary objective. That is just total bs. I revive when I can, but that requires the ability to kill. I mean, how can I get a good score per minute if everyone can heal themselves and I should lose on any range to any class?

    The ability to kill in a larger effective range and the reduction of recoil is what the smg’s need.

  • ghos7bear
    145 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I'll say this again:

    I believe that people channel their hate towards SMGs because medics are not fun to play or get boring really fast. As medic, only you have SMG, smoke and nothing else while other classes are so much more versatile and fun to play.
  • VOLBANKER
    878 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Why use the extreme word "hate"? Nobody's hating anything here. Just some people discussing whether or not SMGs need a buff.
Sign In or Register to comment.