Hidden in plain sight: Showcasing prone "invisibility"

Comments

  • Major_Pungspark
    1212 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The bleed out mechanic is definitely causing issues With people thinking live players are 'dead'. It's the whole being able to lie on your back and shoot animation that's confusing people.

    Yep. Lying on your back shouldn't provide prone benefits or ADS capability. If you want to exploit it, you should be limited to regular or crouched hipfire.

    Think I ran into some players trying it out on Devastation just earlier, I frankly thought they where down, luckily I was both peeking over a wall and they didn´t see me at once, and there was two of them so it looked strange.
  • ninjapenquinuk
    1152 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Deffinetly shouldn't have any prone accuracy benefits seeing as you aren't prone.
  • Hawxxeye
    3247 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I was in regular prone in that video though
  • MachoFantast1c0
    1592 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    The bleed out mechanic is definitely causing issues With people thinking live players are 'dead'. It's the whole being able to lie on your back and shoot animation that's confusing people.

    Yep. Lying on your back shouldn't provide prone benefits or ADS capability. If you want to exploit it, you should be limited to regular or crouched hipfire.

    yup. Style over substance. It's something that wasnt needed and has caused other unintended issues

    I am not sure on that. When using cover firing over the top then going prone can get you caught, while falling to your back is allows you to escape the fire and being hit. I think it is a good stance.

    We as community are still not use to the position. How many complained still about prone as hiding to easy.

    I completely agree that the stance itself is useful and welcome, but currently it provides far too many benefits. In other words, it is not balanced.
  • Loqtrall
    11597 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 10
    I think people are completely unaware of there surroundings

    This is my feeling about it as well.

    As far as the video is concerned, anyone using thier brain could have known where all thier teammates were being killed from by listening for gunfire and looking at tracers.

    It's not as if the guy was actually invisible. His outfit contrasted his surroundings blatantly. The issue is everyone who entered the objective zone did so in a straight line seemingly with blinders on, completely ignoring tracers whizzing past thier head and killing teammates right beside them. In the entirety of the video only one enemy even looked in OP's direction, and it was the guy who killed him. Even that guy didn't initially look at him, even when he was shooting tracers right by his head.

    Imo there's a difference between actually being invisible, and enemies just blatantly walking right past you without even looking around.

    Also, the guy behind the flag pole who killed OP was pretty much visible the entire time. From the time he walked right in front of OP and proned behind the sandbags, to the time he flipped over, looked at OP, and killed him.
  • Hawxxeye
    3247 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 10
    Loqtrall wrote: »

    Also, the guy behind the flag pole who killed OP was pretty much visible the entire time. From the time he walked right in front of OP and proned behind the sandbags, to the time he flipped over, looked at OP, and killed him.
    I am not even sure how I even missed that guy. It was like if my brain had not registered him because I was looking at the other guy that showed up together with him. Maybe it was because my PC had that visible frame-drop when he showed up and that somehow made me miss him
    .
    So I did not shoot at the guy who eventually killed me but I turned around and shot at another guy with a deployed lmg who seemed to had been aiming at me but not shooting (or maybe he could not see me either).
    .
    I do not think I ever felt this blind in previous BFs
  • fakemon64
    480 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    That video is just a good example of the skill level of the average player in bf. They just spend half the match sprinting in circles complaining about dying. I doubt there was anything wrong with visibility, they were just too 'busy' to look at the player in the video.
  • M_Rat13
    139 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Imo they shouldve made outfits specific to each class and all outfits foe that class keeping a distinguished silhouette.

    In BF 1 it was easy to see who was who. That guy has crutches I better kill him first before I continue surpression. Now idk if thats a medic or not...o crap hes reviving let me stop surpressing fire and try to kill him too late dead.

    Is that guy on the bridge a recon or assault? No scope glint so maybe assault? If so I can deal with him quickly and.....headshot dead.

    Does it matter if it's Recon or Assault? You'll still be headshot to death becuase of Assault DMRs. Well, except Assault (and I guess also Support) doesn't have scope glint, for some reason....

  • Loqtrall
    11597 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Yes, some people are unaware, but that is not the extent of the issue.

    That is the extent of the video.
    Yes, this clip is more about people not connecting the dots. However, you didn't have these clips proliferate in BF1, or earlier games as to my knowledge. Poor awareness in combination with poor visibility produces these absurd end results. And even when you take away poor awareness, you are still left with poor visibility. Visibility is not something you can train to overcome reliably. You can't learn to see that which is not there to be seen. Simply infeasible.

    It seems people have differing thresholds as to what their visual/brain connection can pick up on. By your own account, you have it good, but what if the visibility was further degraded to a point that you started having trouble? And people with inhuman capabilities told you to suck it up and open your eyes? We already get that you don't have problems, but why would you care if visibility was to be improved? Would it somehow detract from your gameplay?

    Lol, yes we did have these types of clips in BF1, I could easily link several of them. This was not a case of poor visibility, this was a case of multiple enemy players walking right by someone in dark clothing sitting in white snow even when he's shooting thier teammates right in front of them.

    They can learn to notice where tracers are coming from, look to thier right, and see a prone enemy sitting in the snow shooting at them. One enemy in the clip even did so. That's not inhuman capability, that's basic awareness.

    Secondly, I don't care if visibility is improved. I've never expressed that sentiment once, ever. I just claim I don't have issues with visibility and most of the evidence of said issues that we're provided with usually involves an enemy sitting right out in the open, noticeable in even low res screenshots, and claims that they're invisible. Or examples like the video in the OP where it was 100% a case of players walking right by the guy.
    In. First. Person. The issue that has been discussed in hundreds of threads is about third person visibility on ranges exceeding two meters, visual clutter, confusing poses, poor contrast, washed out color palette etc. Please don't try to conflate the issue of visibility with the issue of general awareness.

    Sorry, I was discussing the video evidence not the entire issue as a whole. Please try not to conflate my argument with something else.
  • maggotforl133
    154 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I find myself laying out in stupid spots in the open and have people run passed me and rack up kills. Sometimes I feel the other team doesn’t expect someone to lay out like that, so they assume you’re dead or are too baffled to react.
  • wc138
    820 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    I came upon a case where the enemies were completely unable to find me while I was in their base for a good minute, mowing them down with the VGO.
    I think it is a good example of how it can be hard to notice enemies in BFV but from the killing side instead of the receiving end for a change.
    At the end I also fall to another prone enemy who was in front of me but I myself could not notice him.

    I think a big part of the problem is there's little time to notice and find the enemy shooting on you. By the time you've sorted out you're getting shot at, you're dead. I know, net-code and packet delivery issues abound, but still...it's easy to hide if you've got the killing power and there's not a sniper watching your spot.
  • fakemon64
    480 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    M_Rat13 wrote: »
    Imo they shouldve made outfits specific to each class and all outfits foe that class keeping a distinguished silhouette.

    In BF 1 it was easy to see who was who. That guy has crutches I better kill him first before I continue surpression. Now idk if thats a medic or not...o crap hes reviving let me stop surpressing fire and try to kill him too late dead.

    Is that guy on the bridge a recon or assault? No scope glint so maybe assault? If so I can deal with him quickly and.....headshot dead.

    Does it matter if it's Recon or Assault? You'll still be headshot to death becuase of Assault DMRs. Well, except Assault (and I guess also Support) doesn't have scope glint, for some reason....

    In some aspects Id say yes. Gives you an idea what kind of engagement you might have.

    As for the thread topic this happened to me the other night. Theres 4 enemies in that picture.


    I think it's a good thing the player in the picture doesn't have a clean view of players from that range. Imagine being able to go iron sight drilling sniping at that range.

    What we can't see in that image is that players fov settings. Could be they are too high.
  • una322
    115 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The thing is the mechanic is the meta right now, behind in kills? prone somewhere near a flag and wait with an mg = win. you dont even have to be good. Yeah most servers have at best 2-3 good players per side so its easy to farm kills by doing this. The visibility issue in bf5 is just horrible and prone killing is no fun, and getting killed by it is no fun. Doesnt matter how much you pay attention, sometimes you get killed by a prone camper , and with bad ttd its just not fun at all.
  • MachoFantast1c0
    1592 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    The bleed out mechanic is definitely causing issues With people thinking live players are 'dead'. It's the whole being able to lie on your back and shoot animation that's confusing people.

    Yep. Lying on your back shouldn't provide prone benefits or ADS capability. If you want to exploit it, you should be limited to regular or crouched hipfire.

    I lay on my back with the MMGs and LMGs all the time since it gives you such a big advantage. Most enemies won't notice you're a living player unless you move, you can still use your bipod, and your lower body makes it a lot harder for the enemy to target your head. The arm hitboxes block it all the time.

    I took a shot at a guy's head who was laying on his back and his arm blocked the shot even though his arm wasn't actually blocking his head. I had a clear view of it.

    You definitely should have an accuracy penalty on your back, and you also shouldn't be able to use bipods.

    And I really wish there was a bullet passthrough system that detected if your bullet would have gone through the enemy's arm and into their head so that it counts as a headshot.

    Yep. Anybody would be stupid not to do that, hell I do that on the rare occasion I decide to level some MMG up a bit. Only to shortly put it away in disgust. I just hope DICE realizes the current setup is to the detriment of the game.

    It was months ago that they demoed the new limb penetration system, wondering when it will make it to the game proper.
  • OldSkoolzFinest
    306 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    I think people are completely unaware of there surroundings

    This is my feeling about it as well.

    As far as the video is concerned, anyone using thier brain could have known where all thier teammates were being killed from by listening for gunfire and looking at tracers.

    It's not as if the guy was actually invisible. His outfit contrasted his surroundings blatantly. The issue is everyone who entered the objective zone did so in a straight line seemingly with blinders on, completely ignoring tracers whizzing past thier head and killing teammates right beside them. In the entirety of the video only one enemy even looked in OP's direction, and it was the guy who killed him. Even that guy didn't initially look at him, even when he was shooting tracers right by his head.

    Imo there's a difference between actually being invisible, and enemies just blatantly walking right past you without even looking around.

    Also, the guy behind the flag pole who killed OP was pretty much visible the entire time. From the time he walked right in front of OP and proned behind the sandbags, to the time he flipped over, looked at OP, and killed him.

    Unfortunately in game audio is all over the place from time to time. There were some cases where I couldnt hear the player shooting at me from about 20m, sometimes hit indicators on your screen dont appear or shows completely wrong information, and same goes for footsteps, you can hear a blueberry dying a mile away but you cant hear the enemy sprinting towards you from behind with a knife.

    This^
    I play on Xbox one x and I don't have black screen bugs like others do nor company coin issues BUT everything you mentioned here are what I am experiencing.

    It's extremely frustrating playing with Bad Visibility, inaccurate or lack of sound and no commo rose chat log (since last patch) on my screen.
    In BF3 all the way to BF1 I had none of these issues except for Bf4s first broken year.
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