Wake up! PING is the ultimate weapon in BATTLEFIELD 5 - FAIR PLAY doesn't exist

2

Comments

  • Catsonspeeed
    413 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The hit registration is client side up to 160 ms, anything over that, and it becomes server side. So if you have a ping of 160 ms or less, you can shoot anything you see at your screen, and those hits should register. Above 160 ms, you will have to lead your shot since the hit registration becomes server side, and you are no longer compensated for anything above 160 ms.

    I've seen a number of times players with a ping well over 100 ms leading the scoreboards and going like 60-10. So it's not like you don't stand a chance with a higher ping. It's a complicated mess. EA should provide more server locations, but that costs money, and I guess we all know what that means.

    If all the players on the server would stay within 50 ms or less, the game would run so much better. But that will never happen.
  • NLBartmaN
    2209 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Zoom_VII wrote: »
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    A VERY LOW ping (lower than the tick rate of the server) is a disadvantage in BF.
    With client AND server hit reg, compensation for high pingers and the simulation hit reg you will have lots of difference between client and server hits if one or more high/unstable pingers join a server.

    Ping compensation is applied to all players and all it does is normalize the shooting experience between players of different ping. Playing at higher ping does not allow you to hit any better than before. High ping also puts you at a disadvantage in terms of reaction time as enemies will not render on your screen as quickly as they would on the screen of someone playing at a lower latency.

    It is about the combination of client and server hit registration and netcode.

    When the server gets unstable/unable to process hit claims fast enough because high/unstable pingers join the difference between client regs number (which registrates all my asumed hits) and server hit regs grows fast and kills are not given to the low ping player, although on their screen and also the client hit reg says they did make the kill.

    Low ping (faster than the tick rate of the server, I have 8ms as example) is ONLY an advantage when servers are capable of processing everything fast enough (at least 60Hz servers and we only get 30Hz on console) and everyone has a low enough stable ping, say max of 60ms for everyone, above that the server sends presumed locations of high pingers.

    Once one or multiple players with (unstable) ping well above the tick rate join low ping becomes a disadvantage, BF servers start to get big (performance) issues by extra sources needed for simulations/compensation.

    The high pingers get a precise location/sounds from the low ping players (since this is updated every tick), but the low ping players get a delayed/not accurate location and sounds from the high pingers, since their ping is well above the tick rate.

    The normalization/compensation/simulation of hit claims 9and other info processed by the server) does not work like it should with the BF (V) netcode.
  • von_Campenstein
    5980 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Zoom_VII wrote: »
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    A VERY LOW ping (lower than the tick rate of the server) is a disadvantage in BF.
    With client AND server hit reg, compensation for high pingers and the simulation hit reg you will have lots of difference between client and server hits if one or more high/unstable pingers join a server.

    Ping compensation is applied to all players and all it does is normalize the shooting experience between players of different ping. Playing at higher ping does not allow you to hit any better than before. High ping also puts you at a disadvantage in terms of reaction time as enemies will not render on your screen as quickly as they would on the screen of someone playing at a lower latency.
    What other FPS' have lag compensation while at the same time not offering pingcapped servers?

    BFV doesn't need pingcapping because the latency compensation algorithm has a cap built into it. The player is no longer provided latency compensation beyond 150ms.

    So you're saying these outrageous pingers make the servers better somehow, interesting.

  • FireStarterGR
    16 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    You are totally WRONG.

    A VERY LOW ping (lower than the tick rate of the server) is a disadvantage in BF.
    With client AND server hit reg, compensation for high pingers and the simulation hit reg you will have lots of difference between client and server hits if one or more high/unstable pingers join a server.

    Playing OOR with a ping above 60 will give you huge benefits.

    What you say is right. I agree. But a 23 ping always wins a 57-75 ping, in face to face combat. That's my point. That's my... "WHY DICE cant you ballance that"?
  • kleerkoat
    39 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    i've always said there is no skill in FPS's, it's all about the connection to the server.
  • Aircool_212
    759 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I disagree. My ping (UK) is ~15-26ms and I'm constantly getting one hit deaths from weapons which should take at least 5 rounds to kill, yet no matter how many bullets I put into a target, they can often turn around and still kill me. Also, I can't get one hit kills with melee weapons when I'm in that particular takedown zone.

    However, if I'm on a server where my ping is above ~35ms, I start hitting targets more easily and at least hear/see two to three rounds whilst my body slumps dead to the floor.
  • NLBartmaN
    2209 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member

    What you say is right. I agree. But a 23 ping always wins a 57-75 ping, in face to face combat. That's my point. That's my... "WHY DICE cant you ballance that"?

    I do not agree, I loose face to face combat of high pingers when I shouldn't.

    In a BF1 discussion I believe it was calculated that the "border" where things can go wrong with the current server hz is a 60ms ping, above that (location and hit) info is no longer updated every tick.

    So a above 60ms player is no longer there where you see him, since his location is not updated every tick, the server gives a "most probable" location from the high pinger at the tick.

    The lower ping gets info faster (only a benefit if the info is up to date, which is not with a high pinger) and the hit claim is faster on the server, but as I recall the hit claim is processed in a simulation that calculates (with ping added) who shot first and did a hit and who should die, so the code is "balanced" in theory ... in reality things go wrong ...

    All this calculations and simulations use the capacity of the server (and do not always compensate/calculate in the right way with the right info) and when too many players with instable/high ping are on a server, things start to get messy.

    The only way you can get a "fair" game is on a local network with everyone having the same gear ...

    A ping limit of around 60ms with the current server hz and no/very limited compensation/simulation would come close ...
  • ackers75
    1463 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 11
    I disagree. My ping (UK) is ~15-26ms and I'm constantly getting one hit deaths from weapons which should take at least 5 rounds to kill, yet no matter how many bullets I put into a target, they can often turn around and still kill me. Also, I can't get one hit kills with melee weapons when I'm in that particular takedown zone.

    However, if I'm on a server where my ping is above ~35ms, I start hitting targets more easily and at least hear/see two to three rounds whilst my body slumps dead to the floor.

    Yep same here
    9ms to 20 ms ping to Eu servers and the one bullet deaths are beyond ridiculous!
    But I can start shooting other players and they react by taking cover.
    I have zero jitter or packet loss.
    Apparently battlenonsense says the shooting players with high packet loss or jitter can cause one bullet deaths.
    So in other words somebody else’s connection is affecting my gameplay!
    Thanks a bunch
  • NLBartmaN
    2209 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    ackers75 wrote: »

    Yep same here
    9ms to 20 ms ping to Eu servers and the one bullet deaths are beyond ridiculous!
    But I can start shooting other players and they react by taking cover.
    I have zero jitter or packet loss.
    Apparently battlenonsense says the shooting players with high packet loss or jitter can cause one bullet deaths.
    So in other words somebody else’s connection is affecting my gameplay!
    Thanks a bunch

    Same experience here with very stable connection and ping of 8ms to EU servers.

    But I have almost no problem and no 1 frame deaths in 32 players gamemodes.

    Looks like the "perfect" ping with the current server (settings) and netcode is indeed 25-40ms.

    Anyone have an idea how I can raise my ping to 30ms on PS4 to give it a try?

    Use VPN or proxy or something to add some ms?
  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    349 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Here is sumup what you need to know:

    https://www.pcgamer.com/netcode-explained/

    Really good article, thanks
  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    349 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited January 11
    I can't see EA investing extra funds into a game that's not quite a hit. So leaving aside the fairness on OOR players, would ping capping servers cost a lot?

    Also if BFV was to set up a RSP, would the hosts be able to set up ping caps?
  • ackers75
    1463 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I can't see EA investing extra funds into a game that's not quite a hit. So leaving aside the fairness on OOR players, would ping capping servers cost a lot?

    Also if BFV was to set up a RSP, would the hosts be able to set up ping caps?

    I don’t think oor is the issue.
    It’s just plain broke netcode
  • johnojohnson
    506 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    i usually play with around 59 ( i am in China but need to play either singapore or Japanese servers. I dont really have any issue actually I do pretty well most games, once you get triple figures things start getting ugly if majority of other players are very low
  • BA2VGT
    143 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 11
    I have over a 2:1 K/D, good win rate, constantly at or near top of board....I run this game on a 4G connection hotspot that pings a consistent 70-80 ping.

    I moved during BF1 from a 100 MBPS that constantly pinged 30-40 to the 70-80 4G and my K/D, W/L, etc did not change.

    It's not us, it's you .

    Edit: I will say if I forget to reboot the hotspot about once a week ping jumps to 110-125...it's a noticable difference there.. however I would not expect Dice to do anything with a ping that bad.
  • PvtPart5
    69 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Are gamers mad at dice for not paying for them to get high speed internet?
  • trip1ex
    4008 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    I remember Delta Force 2 on the pc and the host advantage. 1 player had to host the server and my buddy always always demanded to do it because the host's ping was 0. And then yeah he was Jedi-like. Or Rambo. He saw everyone before they saw him. Pretty much god-like in that game if you were host. That's in the early days before dedicated servers. Consoles took even longer to see dedicated servers than pcs.

    I'm sure you can chalk up some people's network connections to an advantage in this game. But they do have lag compensation now in this game as least so ping differences don't give out the same advantages I don't think although I'd still rather have an 18 ping than a 120 ping.
  • NLBartmaN
    2209 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    BA2VGT wrote: »
    I have over a 2:1 K/D, good win rate, constantly at or near top of board....I run this game on a 4G connection hotspot that pings a consistent 70-80 ping.

    I moved during BF1 from a 100 MBPS that constantly pinged 30-40 to the 70-80 4G and my K/D, W/L, etc did not change.

    It's not us, it's you .

    Edit: I will say if I forget to reboot the hotspot about once a week ping jumps to 110-125...it's a noticable difference there.. however I would not expect Dice to do anything with a ping that bad.

    Since you were and are in the right range .. I understand you don't have problems ...
  • parkingbrake
    1508 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    ackers75 wrote: »
    Low ping doesn’t guarantee you a good gaming experience in many of the battlefield games am afraid.
    Battlenonsense has shown people with plenty of latency variation and high ping can shoot you behind cover and bundle many bullets into one packet thus creating the one bullet death effect.

    Whatever happened to people saying other peoples connections don’t affect your gaming experience?
    The point is that if everyone in the server has a reasonably low ping the game runs better for everyone. But the online gaming industry has decided that allowing players with pings in the multiple hundreds of milliseconds to play anywhere they want is good for their sales because some guy who lives thousands of miles away from the nearest BFV server can still buy and play the game. That he ruins the game for others doesn't seem to concern them.

    When servers were operated by clans we could use ping caps to keep out players on other continents, but EA has decided they don't want to have rented servers anymore. Of course that means since they're paying for the servers now they need to sell us cosmetics etc. to cover that cost over time. In the long run I'm not sure a game like BF will work that way, this isn't kids pouring money into costumes in Fortnite.
  • von_Campenstein
    5980 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited January 11
    ackers75 wrote: »
    Low ping doesn’t guarantee you a good gaming experience in many of the battlefield games am afraid.
    Battlenonsense has shown people with plenty of latency variation and high ping can shoot you behind cover and bundle many bullets into one packet thus creating the one bullet death effect.

    Whatever happened to people saying other peoples connections don’t affect your gaming experience?
    The point is that if everyone in the server has a reasonably low ping the game runs better for everyone. But the online gaming industry has decided that allowing players with pings in the multiple hundreds of milliseconds to play anywhere they want is good for their sales because some guy who lives thousands of miles away from the nearest BFV server can still buy and play the game. That he ruins the game for others doesn't seem to concern them.

    When servers were operated by clans we could use ping caps to keep out players on other continents, but EA has decided they don't want to have rented servers anymore. Of course that means since they're paying for the servers now they need to sell us cosmetics etc. to cover that cost over time. In the long run I'm not sure a game like BF will work that way, this isn't kids pouring money into costumes in Fortnite.

    BF could go another route for microtransactions, offer different UI layouts, HUDs, voicebytes, handsigns, killsounds, things not directly affecting gameplay but improve players experience over time. Don't want to pay that dollar for a smoother UI fine, stick with the current one, question is could they have people running say 5 different UIs without conflict?

    Furthermore; pingcap now!
  • MrJayPee71
    184 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    ackers75 wrote: »
    Low ping doesn’t guarantee you a good gaming experience in many of the battlefield games am afraid.
    Battlenonsense has shown people with plenty of latency variation and high ping can shoot you behind cover and bundle many bullets into one packet thus creating the one bullet death effect.

    Whatever happened to people saying other peoples connections don’t affect your gaming experience?
    The point is that if everyone in the server has a reasonably low ping the game runs better for everyone. But the online gaming industry has decided that allowing players with pings in the multiple hundreds of milliseconds to play anywhere they want is good for their sales because some guy who lives thousands of miles away from the nearest BFV server can still buy and play the game. That he ruins the game for others doesn't seem to concern them.

    When servers were operated by clans we could use ping caps to keep out players on other continents, but EA has decided they don't want to have rented servers anymore. Of course that means since they're paying for the servers now they need to sell us cosmetics etc. to cover that cost over time. In the long run I'm not sure a game like BF will work that way, this isn't kids pouring money into costumes in Fortnite.

    BF could go another route for microtransactions, offer different UI layouts, HUDs, voicebytes, handsigns, killsounds, things not directly affecting gameplay but improve players experience over time. Don't want to pay that dollar for a smoother UI fine, stick with the current one, question is could they have people running say 5 different UIs without conflict?

    Furthermore; pingcap now!

    I’d pay real money for BF1’s headshot ‘ding’ sound any day of the week.
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