The nerf to engineers and anti-aircraft turrets has made planes god mode

Comments

  • MadRussian13
    55 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Dice, for some reason, has a hard on for whiny pilots. They should just remove planes from grand ops and breakthrough. It’s easy mode when the pilots know they only need to cover two letters or a minimal amount of the map. That they lowered the time between drops is a joke
  • Astr0damus
    2904 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 2019
    ShredIron wrote: »
    Its darn near impossible now to shoot down a plane in an anti-aircraft, even as an engineer. 5.5 or 7.5 seconds is simply not long enough, not by a long stretch to do any damage to a plane before he vanishes out of your sights to repair.

    The top score in this match was made by the person being in an aircraft for 95% of the game. We could not shoot him down.

    The nerf to engineers/anti-aircraft has completely over tuned airplanes.
    [img][/img]wvzrqw.jpg

    I completely agree...
    It would be fine if planes weren't so deadly to infantry/vehicles, then, even if the only thing that could take down a plane is another plane, they could do like they did in BF1 and play their own separate game (dogfighting) while the rest of us PTFO.

    Also, in BF1, you could take down ANY plane in one pass if you led them just a tiny bit (fired in front of the aircraft).
    In fact, maybe AA was a little too OP in BF1, but they have gone from OP to shooting wet sponges at planes... can't there be some middle ground? When DICE corrects something, it seems they go from one end of the spectrum to the other.
    It's like "Oh AA is OP? Ok, let's correct this by making them utterly useless."

    PS: I have (or used to have) screenshots of the end of rounds in BF1 where I destroyed 9 planes in one round!
    I would like to see someone's screenshot from BF V where anyone has gotten 3 planes destroyed in one round. I think we will be waiting quite some time... (and I mean from AA/Tank only--not while flying a plane)
  • DeadGuyOz
    2 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Turrets were already balanced by being placed into pits, cant shoot down or even forward in most cases. Not to mention the amount of terrain in the way. It was an unnecessary change.

    Who the hell puts an AA gun in a pit behind embankments, trees and building or in a courtyard with walls and vehicles? played a few rounds and it is impossible to even see the Planes most of the time. Also the heatup period being too short (fast) you may get 10 shots at best on anything.

  • Gravlar_SN9
    267 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    ShredIron wrote: »
    That pilot can only do it if your whole team just simply allowed him to do so. Where are your pilots and aa tank?
    This patch didnt nerf the range of aa tank, it can still cover the whole infantry fighting area ,where plane can get kills, from your first flag if not your uncap.

    The whole team was not allowing him to do it. Our pilots were not so good, so fair game for him. But I am very good at anti-aircraft turrets and I could barely even damage him. Its a joke. I took down 5 planes last night in a matter of 3 minutes, today I can not even make a dent. Its a joke.

    Tank spawning is too infrequent to be effective if someone else grabs the tank. I play engineer specifically to use tanks to take out planes, repair vehicles on the field, and jump into turrets when necessary (which is often).

    Turrets were already balanced by being placed into pits, cant shoot down or even forward in most cases. Not to mention the amount of terrain in the way. It was an unnecessary change.

    Not to mention it’s not like it’s even guaranteed that there will be an AA tank if your team are constantly picking staghounds etc. The tank slots would be better if they were pre selected to a degree (1x heavy, 2x med, 1x Aa for example) so if all slots are used you’re guaranteed a mix of tanks rather than just all one type as it currently is.
  • Rabiiiere
    18 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 2019
    since the patch, the tanks AA have become useless in anti air mode (less range and only 15-20% maxi with some damage make +0 hits, i'm happy if i make +10hits now^^), it's totaly IMPOSSIBLE to disabled a plane now with 2-3 times overheat full hits but have become good tanks on the ground and against the soldiers cause now you can hit 30-35% a tank and kill a soldier with 2-3 hits only and if you play with the spot flares (US MAA) so you have a very good tank to take the flag but against the planes is now totaly useless...

    The planes can play on all maps now like Fjell where stationary AA is useless.
  • Squad_Cohesion
    910 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Rabiiiere wrote: »
    since the patch, the tanks AA have become useless in anti air mode (less range and only 15-20% maxi with some damage make +0 hits, i'm happy if i make +10hits now^^), it's totaly IMPOSSIBLE to disabled a plane now with 2-3 times overheat full hits but have become good tanks on the ground and against the soldiers cause now you can hit 30-35% a tank and kill a soldier with 2-3 hits only and if you play with the spot flares (US MAA) so you have a very good tank to take the flag but against the planes is now totaly useless...

    The planes can play on all maps now like Fjell where stationary AA is useless.

    Honestly, I think it's bugged (again).
  • Dr_Steamfur
    337 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Here is another. The top score was in a plane most of the match.
    TWO Flakpanzer's could not even take down the planes, along with someone in an anti-aircraft turret.

    This is beyond ridiculous. A day before the patch I could take down planes with some descent leading, now its virtually impossible. Planes are darn near ramming the Flakpanzer with no fear at all of getting shot down.

    When players have ultimate confidence and become brazen overnight in their activities, it means the game is broken and what they are using is over tuned.

    5dlbwk.jpg
  • Hawxxeye
    7750 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DeadGuyOz wrote: »
    Turrets were already balanced by being placed into pits, cant shoot down or even forward in most cases. Not to mention the amount of terrain in the way. It was an unnecessary change.

    Who the hell puts an AA gun in a pit behind embankments, trees and building or in a courtyard with walls and vehicles? played a few rounds and it is impossible to even see the Planes most of the time. Also the heatup period being too short (fast) you may get 10 shots at best on anything.
    This had been a pet peeve of mine.
    I cant see the logic in that
  • Stahlmach
    1156 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    DeadGuyOz wrote: »
    Turrets were already balanced by being placed into pits, cant shoot down or even forward in most cases. Not to mention the amount of terrain in the way. It was an unnecessary change.

    Who the hell puts an AA gun in a pit behind embankments, trees and building or in a courtyard with walls and vehicles? played a few rounds and it is impossible to even see the Planes most of the time. Also the heatup period being too short (fast) you may get 10 shots at best on anything.
    This had been a pet peeve of mine.
    I cant see the logic in that

    You cant even shoot Infantry that is attacking you. It just results in shooting bullets into a invisible wall or sandbags while pushing so much smoke and dust into the air that you cant see anything at all.
  • TheSacar
    1005 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 2019
    What I see when I read this thread is a lot of hyperbole. In the same manner I could claim that ground grunts will complain so long as the AA isn't a "delete plane instantly" button. :wink:
    I believe that the current state of the AA is a bug as there was nothing in the patch notes about a change in AA behavior.
    VincentNZ wrote: »

    Yep but that means that 2-3 guys have to team up completely random and dedicate their whole time into one task and nothing else.

    Two guys would be entirely enough. If the pilot knows what he is doing, otherwise a single guy should be enough when playing smart (i.e. not shooting at max range). And why shouldn't it take a team effort to kill a powerful vehicle? If a tanker knows what he is doing, he will also be very hard for a single soldier to kill. The only time you can solo tanks is if the tanker is not very good.
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    Plus of course, the only thing it does is create a no-fly zone over one specific area, which is absolutely pointless on the bigger maps, and on Fjell the geography can be exploited so you are rarely in LOS of any stationary.

    Actually creating a no fly zone is exactly what the AA should do. It should not be the primary tool to just kill any aircraft. It should only be the tool to chase away aircraft from a certain area or kill them if they do not turn away.
    And on Fjell there are many areas, where you are out of reach of AA, yes, but when you want to do anything but dogfight in the far reaches of the map ou will have to fly into areas very well covered by AA. Trust me, on no other map does the AA annoy me more.

    VincentNZ wrote: »
    Planes however, are extremely fast and agile, rather silent (apart from the Stuka) and can deliver their payload before anyone ever saw them, or even before the SAA entering animation is over, or before you can turn it to face the plane. And the planes are surprisingly sturdy, can insta-repair, can self-repair and do not seem to lose much mobility or maneueverability when being hit.

    While I do not know about bombers, I can tell you that even post patch the AA still consistently breaks my tail rudder or a wing with the first or second hit both in fighters and the Stuka. There are two abilities, one being a wing repair that does away with a disable once but only gives a very small amount of HP back and one is an emergency repair, which gives more HP but doesn't repair disabled parts.
    I survive most AA (as I did before the patch), but not because the AA is weak, but because I know how to avoid getting hit. This I would argue is a skill and should always be possible. When you can no longer survive against an asset by learning and perfecting a skill, then that asset is overpowered in my opinion.

    VincentNZ wrote: »
    Honestly, I think the Battlefield franchise would be better off without planes or only allow them on maps where there is also a spawnable MAA.

    The battlefield franchise is what it is because of planes and tanks. Without them it would be a very different game. That being said, I agree that there is a balancing issue with modes that force teams into funnels at flags/objectives.
    As far as I am aware Fjell is the only map where there are planes but no AA tank. However each team has at least 5 planes (with one extra for the team that holds C) and there is no reason that five planes can't prevent enemy bombers from attacking ground targets. In the end it is always the fault of the team that is getting bombed if their enemies can fly freely around the map.

    Not to mention it’s not like it’s even guaranteed that there will be an AA tank if your team are constantly picking staghounds etc. The tank slots would be better if they were pre selected to a degree (1x heavy, 2x med, 1x Aa for example) so if all slots are used you’re guaranteed a mix of tanks rather than just all one type as it currently is.

    If the team isn't picking a mobile AA it't their own fault. Either people do something to counter the enemy who is constantly killing them or they have no reason to complain. I don't know how many matches I have played where I could repeatedly strafe the ground and people where whining in the chat, but no one even tried to shoot me down. There are matches on Fjell where people are getting rekt by a single fighter plane but strangely keep spawning five bombers rather than trying to ocunter the plane with fighters.

  • ninjapenquinuk
    2247 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Something is definitely not right with AA. Only had one round last night, on Panzerstorm, and the towed AA would hardly deal any damage at all to enemy fighter and bombers. I was never in a position to 100% destroy an enemy plane, i was more trying to be a nuisance whilst defending a flag, but still, my shells barely tickled them.
  • fragnstein
    833 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Planes fly right at you as your punching them in the nose with shells and they drop their payload right in your lap. Planes should fear AA, not the other way around
  • VincentNZ
    3885 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    @TheSacar
    Thank you for taking the time to eloquently answer my post. You do have some very good points, and I wanted to clarify that I speak about my conquest experience, so I can not really comment how it is on smaller objective-based modes, like breakthrough. Creating a no-fly zone there is obviously a great idea. I also do not entirely see the SAA as a hard counter to airplanes, but as of now they are underwhelming especially when you consider the map-sizes and amount of flags.
    The problem is also the current conquest meta, no flag is ever defended so you man a SAA there, but the fight will be in a completely different spot. In any case, since planes are rather silent in general they will still be able to deliver the payload and get away.
    As a little story from Fjell the other day: I never even knew there were 4 planes per side on that map, but there were 3 spitfires going 30ish-0. As you know conquest is a merry-go round so I manned the SAA at E, which was the safest area and dedicate myself to AA purposes. We also had D and C, which made me able to shoot them once they did their strafe and coming back. I hit decently and hit them for 30-40ish damage each. Which must have been a slight nuisance because they were then trying to get at me. They came from our deployment usually and I hit them square on, but couldn't turn fast enough when they got past and hit them for 60% maybe, sometimes killing the engine.
    In one instance one of them actually roadkilled me in the SAA, while having a mobility crit, which is physically just not possible. I was really annoyed then. In any case I could not for the life of me deal with them. My angle was ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, my damage was sub-par and my turning was bad and my visuals are not optimal, because you neither hear or see them (esp on minimap). In the end they killed me twice, once by roadkill, once by crashing into me (pilot got away) and I killed a bomber and a spitfire, which were both not the three guys I was looking for. I however had a thousand hits on them all, to little effect.
    -
    As for the MAA, it is possible to spawn it on all maps but Fjell, yes, but the system is inherently flawed. If there are four Staghounds on the map, and the infantry gets screwed by planes, how would the tankers know and spawn a MAA? And if players do spawn a MAA, a ground vehicle that is severely outnumbered and under danger by everything, but very effective against infantry, will the MAA guy really deal with planes? That is a real issue, DICE can always say that there is a hard counter to the planes on the map, but if it is used is a whole other story. Personally, besides Arras, I mostly see the MAA on Devastation and sometimes Rotterdam.
  • Gravlar_SN9
    267 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TheSacar wrote: »

    Not to mention it’s not like it’s even guaranteed that there will be an AA tank if your team are constantly picking staghounds etc. The tank slots would be better if they were pre selected to a degree (1x heavy, 2x med, 1x Aa for example) so if all slots are used you’re guaranteed a mix of tanks rather than just all one type as it currently is.

    If the team isn't picking a mobile AA it't their own fault. Either people do something to counter the enemy who is constantly killing them or they have no reason to complain. I don't know how many matches I have played where I could repeatedly strafe the ground and people where whining in the chat, but no one even tried to shoot me down. There are matches on Fjell where people are getting rekt by a single fighter plane but strangely keep spawning five bombers rather than trying to ocunter the plane with fighters.

    If it was just a single AA and a smart pilot ducking in and out of cover etc I’d totally agree, one AA shouldn’t knock out a plane instantly.

    This wasn’t that. There were two mobile AA and this guy was flying in a manner that should have got him destroyed. Always in view and taking rounds and flying right down the nose of AA. He absorbed it all and managed to delete both of us in around 2 passes each it was crazy.

    Pre patch two AA would have won a 2v1 battle where the enemy is easy to hit and doesn’t retreat. Even if it meant one AA had been taken down in the battle.

    No one wants instant delete AA (at least I don’t) on planes but they should at least be a deterrent. Especially if there are multiple AA in an area. Last night this guy was flying with impunity and not even because of an abundance of skill.
  • TheSacar
    1005 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    @VincentNZ
    Just to provide an accurate picture of Fjell: There are six planes in one team vs five in the other. In addition there are a total of eight stationary AA guns. Two of these AA guns can reach the German deployment and its resupply point and three can reach the British deployment and resupply point. I also know that Fjell is a difficult topic when discussing air vs ground balance because of the sheer number of planes and the fact that the infantry is funneled between flags.
    And the experience on the ground (as well as in the air) depends very heavily on the ability of each team's pilots and the planes they pick.
    .
    As to the question of spawning a mobile AA and using it to actually attack air targets: In the end it just does depend on the team. If people do not pick the MAA even if you feel that it would be needed, pick one yourself or use the chat/VoIP to ask them to do so. I know that it can be annoying when people pick things you feel are wrong, but that happens a lot. It can go the other way around as well: I've been on Panzerstorm a couple of times where one team had up to four AA tanks. They cleared the sky but could hold out against the other teams regular tanks.

    @Gravlar_SN9
    As I said, I believe the AA is bugged currently. I can mostly ignore a single AA/MAA at the moment and just repair what limited damage they do. I agree that AA should be a deterrent and have a pretty heavy punch and I am sure DICE will eventually repair what has been broken. The fact that I can just fly through badly aimed AA fire and bomb an AA emplacement with my Spit without even needing my emergency repair isn't ideal. If only they would somehow stop the camping with MAA in the uncap base....
  • SirBobdk
    5318 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I have to agree. I fly and the aa/maa seems much less effective. And with the lower rearm time planes have become much stronger. 30 sec rearm time for bombers was fine and should have been 20 sec for fighters. AA was also fine. Only the maa needed a tweak.
  • Tony-yingc
    82 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    In my opinion, there are too many planes and too many vehicles on the ground, which makes it quite difficult to balance. In any case, the number of planes should not exceed three, preferably two, and so should the number of tanks.
  • Hawxxeye
    7750 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Tony-yingc wrote: »
    In my opinion, there are too many planes and too many vehicles on the ground, which makes it quite difficult to balance. In any case, the number of planes should not exceed three, preferably two, and so should the number of tanks.
    You must be new around here...
    The numbers of ground an air vehicles is on an all time low since BF1 and after.
  • TheSacar
    1005 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Tony-yingc wrote: »
    In my opinion, there are too many planes and too many vehicles on the ground, which makes it quite difficult to balance. In any case, the number of planes should not exceed three, preferably two, and so should the number of tanks.

    With the exception of Fjell for planes and Panzerstorm for tanks isn't that exactly how it currently is?
  • Gravlar_SN9
    267 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Tony-yingc wrote: »
    In my opinion, there are too many planes and too many vehicles on the ground, which makes it quite difficult to balance. In any case, the number of planes should not exceed three, preferably two, and so should the number of tanks.

    That would be just terrible.
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