Nerfing the Spitfire's 8 MG specialization

Comments

  • rainkloud
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    rainkloud wrote: »

    The thing the games needs for every plane is better in air control. That would lead to more dog fights and less "I see you first you die" in fighters which leads to longer engagements, which leads to less bombers being instantly killed out of spawn. The real issue right now is the lack of ability to lose a tail and given that how quickly a fighter is shot down leaving the bomber defenseless.

    Also the stationary AA could use a buff, maybe AOE range or something like that. Mobile AA is already crazy good.

    I couldn't disagree more. If you're on the ground and get caught from behind you get knifed or headshot for a quick death. If you're in a tank and get hit from behind you take mulitplied damage plus engine damage and are pretty much toast. In the air should be no exception. Dog fights should occur but they were overrepresented in past titles. Now I see a lot more where one guy is chasing another and then a third chases that guy and gets him if he doesn't break pursuit fast and address the tail. It's much more organic. Good flight skills are rewarded properly but good pilots can also be shot down by lesser skilled pilots if they are victims of circumstance. Planes are more accessible but not in a dumbed down way - they're just more intuitive.

    I think in the past it was kinda like this:

    If you were a 3 talent wise then you were a 1 in terms of output/contribution
    If you were a 5 then you were a 2
    If you were a 10 you were 15

    Now in BFV the output/contribution level more closely corresponds to your skill and effort.


    The problem with that is that if I'm in the air I can literally just make little circles by your spawn, wait for you to fly in, be immediately behind you and you have very little chance to live. That's can be solved by giving planes better maneuverability or adjusting spawning, but it would be way more fun to have planes be more agile.

    I've never fallen victim to spawn camping in the air in BFV that I can recall. I'm not saying you're a liar but evidently I'm either very lucky or pilots have somehow gotten way more honorable and don't engage in that. I always thought you spawned on the edge of the OOB so at best you may be able to get a side position on someone spawning once before they realize what you're doing, but not much more than that and the enemy pilot could easily fly over his friendly AA which if manned would make pretty quick work of any pursuers.

    But maybe I'm not understanding so please forgive me in advance if that is the case.
  • Hawxxeye
    5382 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Jezzzeh wrote: »
    Jezzzeh wrote: »
    Those things are still flying beasts and while I wouldn't propose a further nerf to the JU88, I can't feel sorry if those JU88 pilots are having a harder time at the moment.
    ju88 is a flying coffin. You only take it if the other team have 2 bombers in the air.

    It shouldn't be a flying fortress I suppose I'm trying to say. I fly as gunner for my clan mate who pilots the things and frankly THAT is how DICE designed them, to be flown with a gunner and if you are even moderately competent the gunner should be able to keep all but the best fighters off your tail. Too many fly these things solo and expect to do so AND be near invulnerable.

    The tail guns have been nerfed so much that there was that one time where a fighter stalled 4 meters away from my blenheim bomber and I kept unloading every shot I could on him from this close and the fighter still survived
  • PrecisionWing
    632 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    From my experience, that 8 mg is at a fairly steep spot, fighters should have a huge advantage against bombers, actually they should be able to do more damage to stuka, I always felt that atika can take more hits than bombers after the path.

    German fighters should have a buff against other planes to counter spitfire, not the other way around. DF in bf5 is already slow enough, and by nerfing spitfire, it will only get worse.
  • DCSTomcat
    1055 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    rainkloud wrote: »
    rainkloud wrote: »
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    rainkloud wrote: »
    It already took a big nerf in the last patch:
    The 8x MG specialization on the Spitfire has a new overheat behavior. These
    weapons offer great burst damage, but begin to overheat quickly, with their rate of fire
    dropping substantially in sustained fire.
    

    I haven't seen any evidence that it is still OP after that. Can someone link me to evidence of this dominance post patch?

    Try flying a JU88 ... you will be down before the overheat even starts ..

    Okay sure, just go ahead and link me to a video showing the 8x destroying a full health Junkers in an unreasonable amount of time.

    In this video from the :52 mark it takes about 6 seconds to shoot it down. When i use the spitfire if I catch a bomber coming from spawn it's almost a guarantee that it won't live long enough to make it to a control point.
    *edit spelling

    So first thanks for posting a video. A good video too.

    So what I witnessed there in that time mark was some exceptional gunning by the fighter pilot where a very high percentage of rounds hit coupled with the fact that there was no counter-fire from the bomber. The Spitfire is generally not going to be able to get that close without sustaining fatal or near fatal damage (especially if the passenger MG's are upgraded to Heavy on the JU88.) Is there maybe some room to trim some damage from the 8x against bombers to make the heavy caliber weapons more relevant? Perhaps.

    But maybe you balance it in other ways like make the wings more prone to disable or make the plan slightly less maneuverable.

    It's tough to tell from that video because the tail gunning is so bad or in many cases non existent.

    That first bomber is really trash at rear gunning but even if you had a better gunner that required more movement by the Spitfire and it took twice as long it's under 15 seconds to destroy a bomber. I'm not saying I want to nerf my sweet, sweet Spitfire but the 8x is basically an under 20 second death to a bomber.
    Well, imo we are here to discuss how to make a fun air and show the critics that pilot also want a balanced game and not just op planes

    The thing the games needs for every plane is better in air control. That would lead to more dog fights and less "I see you first you die" in fighters which leads to longer engagements, which leads to less bombers being instantly killed out of spawn. The real issue right now is the lack of ability to lose a tail and given that how quickly a fighter is shot down leaving the bomber defenseless.

    Also the stationary AA could use a buff, maybe AOE range or something like that. Mobile AA is already crazy good.
    *Ability to climb and roll without loosing speed
    Are you kidding? All planes should lose speed when climbing and turning, the Spitfire should have better speed retention at turning, but worse at climbing compared to a 109.

  • SirBobdk
    4019 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 3
    @DCSTomcat wrote
    All planes should lose speed when climbing and turning, the Spitfire should have better speed retention at turning, but worse at climbing compared to a 109
    .
    Why? Just to keep it historically correct.?
    DICE has previously tried to give aircraft different characteristics, and it has never worked.
  • DCSTomcat
    1055 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @DCSTomcat wrote
    All planes should lose speed when climbing and turning, the Spitfire should have better speed retention at turning, but worse at climbing compared to a 109
    .
    Why? Just to keep it historically correct.?
    DICE has previously tried to give aircraft different characteristics, and it has never worked.
    Why didn't it work? Ceiling too low and map too small?
  • CaptainHardware
    302 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 3
    Why didn't it work? Ceiling too low and map too small?

    Pretty much. The maps are very small, the overall aircraft mechanics are very unrealistic, and the more agile planes just always won. DICE ditched the idea after it was blatantly broken throughout the career of BF3 and went back to the planes and tanks being equal in BF4 and BF1. BF2 had some slight differences in planes and tanks that worked okay, but because the differences were almost trivial to the point many people still don't even know they existed.

    Asymmetrical vehicle balance is a terrible idea and DICE has long proven that they are very very slow to balance vehicles no matter how blatantly broken they are, and pretty much downright bad at doing so. For aircraft it should just be ditched entirely. For tanks, it's kinda too far gone to completely engineer out unfortunately.

    It BFV it's already obvious the Spitfire is superior on agility and wins more from it, it was realllly blatant in the alpha and beta so DICE made the difference less before the game even launched, but they need to cut out the middle man and make them identical.
  • SirBobdk
    4019 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @CaptainHardware wrote
    Asymmetrical vehicle balance is a terrible idea
    Agree, we have seen several examples where it end up with one plane dominating all others.
    Btw the comment was not from me :smile:

  • Maldraxis
    50 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Planes will forever more suck, Bihan plays CoD and doesn't like his killstreak stopped by some measly plane.
    All hail Bihan and his iteration of Call of Battlefield 5.
  • DCSTomcat
    1055 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 3
    @CaptainHardware wrote
    Asymmetrical vehicle balance is a terrible idea
    Agree, we have seen several examples where it end up with one plane dominating all others.
    Btw the comment was not from me :smile:
    If that's the case then make them all equal but introduce more realistic physics. The key to dogfighting is about maintaining your energy, potential energy (altitude) and kinetic energy (speed). You trade one for the other, and you must watch your engine, run them at 100% or military power for too long, engine oil overheats. Climbing and turning drains energy, this would stop endless turning in circles. You turn for too long you eventually slow down to stall speed. If you are low on altitude and speed, you pretty much dead.
  • SirBobdk
    4019 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @DCSTomcat wrote
    If that's the case then make them all equal more realistic physics
    I think it's for the best even if I do share you point of view.
    About realistic physics. DICE is not known for being able to do this and I fear if they try it will make things worse.
    But some changes are needed to get dogfighting back on track imo.
  • JediMastaWyn
    463 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Regarding plane physics. A realistic stall across the board would be a start. Tired no end of seeing players cut there speed to near 20 knots and still maintaining flight.

    Second thing the sky box is just too small on the medium sized maps. Hamada is fine, but Twisted Steel and especially Aras are too small imo.
  • HardcoreAndyy
    2 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    rainkloud wrote: »
    It already took a big nerf in the last patch:
    The 8x MG specialization on the Spitfire has a new overheat behavior. These
    weapons offer great burst damage, but begin to overheat quickly, with their rate of fire
    dropping substantially in sustained fire.
    

    I haven't seen any evidence that it is still OP after that. Can someone link me to evidence of this dominance post patch?

    Are you kidding me ? Do you play the game or just speaking with no knowledge. It is still so much overpowered and I know you are loving it's power and don't want dice to Nerf it so that you can get your easy kills.

    The game is already broken and the only way they can fix it is by removing all other planes and replace them with Spitfires. (both on the German and British side)
  • TheSacar
    1005 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    rainkloud wrote: »
    It already took a big nerf in the last patch:
    The 8x MG specialization on the Spitfire has a new overheat behavior. These
    weapons offer great burst damage, but begin to overheat quickly, with their rate of fire
    dropping substantially in sustained fire.
    

    I haven't seen any evidence that it is still OP after that. Can someone link me to evidence of this dominance post patch?

    Are you kidding me ? Do you play the game or just speaking with no knowledge. It is still so much overpowered and I know you are loving it's power and don't want dice to Nerf it so that you can get your easy kills.

    The game is already broken and the only way they can fix it is by removing all other planes and replace them with Spitfires. (both on the German and British side)

    Whut?
    The Spitfire VA isn't really that much better than the BF109 in air to air combat. I actually on average shoot down bombers quicker with the BF109 than with the VA.
  • snakeater418
    247 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I played last night using the spitfire and can confirm that is indeed OP. Took MAYBE 2 bursts to destroy a fighter and MAYBE 3 to down a bomber. That just seems way too easy to me. Now, being on the receiving end I have shot them down as a rear gunner in a stuka before they can get me. But that is usually at a great loss of health and if I was to run into another fighter it would be hopeless for me.

    They do not overheat fast enough, the ammo count seems appropriate, and it's too difficult to out maneuver any plane that gets behind you. Not impossible mind you, but still too difficult.
  • Noromiz
    291 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Apart from the large amount of damage the 8xMG deals, they are also incredibly easy to hit with compared to the more slow firing cannons, which I think helps turn them overpowered compared to all other options.

    If they at the very least let us fire both 20mm cannons and MGs at the same time, then stuff would probably be a bit more balanced. I have no idea of why DICE thought "Hey! Wouldn't it be fun if pilots had to swap between their frontal weapons?", because I sure as heck find it annoying :(
  • wc138
    1109 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Have we not learned to stop asking for nerfs yet?

    We shouldn't be asking them to change what actually works. We should be asking them to work on making the stuff that doesn't work better. We don't need everything to suck.
  • WetIaM
    88 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    even with the update the 8 gun specialization is still way to good. it is flat out overpowered
  • PrecisionWing
    632 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TTK for spitfire vs other planes is at a sweet spot, df should not take forever.
    They should further buff german fighters to equal spitfire
  • fakemon64
    898 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Imo the gun should be strong. Its 8 MGs firing. The drawbacks should be lack of performance parts so it is an offensive only loadout.

    No point in nerfing 8 MGs into feeling liking 4 or 6, might as well just change the number at that point. The balancer of having that many guns should be running out of ammo fast.
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