Weekly Debrief

They (DICE Devs) should have a separate forum for feedback from Combat Veterans

Comments

  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    nothing prevents you from being willing to lay down your life does it?

    You do realise you have to meet eligibility criteria to get in, right? People with chronic illnesses aren't able to join, for example. The most minor thing can pretty much prevent you from getting in, especially if it requires medication to control.

    I totally get that.. and I don't have anything against anyone who doesn't (or cannot) sign up, I only have something against deserters and those who go A.W.O.L. to save their own necks. It's a very touchy subject.. I don't really have any "hatred" for those who were drafted but deserted to Canada, so long as they do not petition to come back. If the US is so great, then it is worth fighting for.
  • Stahlmach
    1156 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    PS: You are probably jealous that 7-11 convenience stores give Police Officers free coffee, but you have to pay (or steal).

    With all respect: I think you are getting obsessed over something which has nothing to do with the game at all.
    On a personal note: Even as someone who was part of the - lets call it - military world for 12 years, i dont see soldiers/officers as better humans just because they joined the military and went through the training.
    There are more than enough Morons in Uniforms. As a Veteran you should know that better than others.
    And therefore i also dont see any needs for extra privileges from or in the civilian world. On the contrary in my opinion Nurses are far more qualified for these than any Soldier.
    You know who also tought me this right from the start ? My Grandgrandfather is his last years when i was still a kid, my grandfather and my father. The first two were part of the biggest war in human history and saw battles no current american or any other soldier could imagine. And they never saw themselves as something special, they even got mad when they witnessed other military personal acted this way.
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    In case I wasn't clear enough... WW II was over for THREE months when we decided to use Atomic bombs on Japan... it was revenge, pure and simple. WW II WAS OVER.. I repeat OVER. We rationalize it by saying "The bombing of Japan ended WW II" but as I pointed out, this is only to make us feel justified... no Sir, the bombing was good old fashioned REVENGE for Pearl Harbor Hawaii. The same Good Book I quoted says revenge is a SIN.
    What we did to Japan was sinful and disgusting (three months after **** was dead and the Germans had surrendered and the US and Russia had joint control of Berlin).
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I'm not sure why a historical figure's name is censored but all the asterisks above in my posts is not cussing, it is a human being's name that rhymes with Schmidtler.

    Is Jesus censored as well? I hope not.
  • GeneralXIV
    238 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    This is the problem with pride--if you cannot submit to authority, then you are weak. Plain and simple,

    I just want to say, I disagree with this. Questioning authority takes more strength than following orders, imo. Saying yes is very easy. Saying no... not so much.


    But, back to the topic. I dont believe DICE should have another forum for combat veterans. I mean, why? Military or non-military, everyone can share their opinions here and just because people have fought in wars irl doesnt give them any amount of ability to know whats right for a video game. War is horrific, video games are fun. *shrug* I imagine people are already consulted and research done during the games development so for feedback... there is nothing making the opinions of combat veterans more informed, more accurate or in any way more valid than any other persons, making it a waste of time to have a forum especially dedicated for them. It would be more appropriate to have views of other game developers tbh
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Stahlmach wrote: »
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    PS: You are probably jealous that 7-11 convenience stores give Police Officers free coffee, but you have to pay (or steal).

    With all respect: I think you are getting obsessed over something which has nothing to do with the game at all.
    On a personal note: Even as someone who was part of the - lets call it - military world for 12 years, i dont see soldiers/officers as better humans just because they joined the military and went through the training.
    There are more than enough Morons in Uniforms. As a Veteran you should know that better than others.
    And therefore i also dont see any needs for extra privileges from or in the civilian world. On the contrary in my opinion Nurses are far more qualified for these than any Soldier.
    You know who also tought me this right from the start ? My Grandgrandfather is his last years when i was still a kid, my grandfather and my father. The first two were part of the biggest war in human history and saw battles no current american or any other soldier could imagine. And they never saw themselves as something special, they even got mad when they witnessed other military personal acted this way.

    Once again you have managed to twist my intention for a forum for Combat Vets into something "obsessive". I am only answer people in this thread who have asked me questions and one in particular who has made a thinly-veiled accusation of me dodging his question.. at which time I went in great length to answer. If you call a free history lesson, obsessing, then twist it however you like.

    PS: I served as many years as you. And no one is asking for Military discount at Home Depot, but if they see the value in giving Veterans a 10% discount, then I will gladly accept it. I think you are getting it twisted again, acting as if Vets march around insisting on discounts and freebies.. Holy crap! That is the complete opposite, we gave everyone who stayed home a freebie, if you want to look at it that way. As the saying goes "Freedom isn't free." or the other: "All gave some, but some gave All." And then there are some people who prefer to do home-invasions right here in their own country. There is a whole spectrum... but to put your post to bed, no one is asking for freebies. There are plenty of veterans who would gladly give their input for free, to make a game we love, just a tad bit more accurate/better.

    I go back to my original example: Notifying Dice Devs, "Hey when you make 'squads' four-man instead of six-man, it's probably better/more accurate to change the name 'squad' to 'fire-team' since that is the correct terminology." Nothing more...
    You (and others) make it out to be like we want to have Soldiers sitting around eating M.R.E.'s and cracking jokes as an entire game mode.
    So many heard "read only" and got their panties in a twist. Heaven forbid Combat vets get consulted on war matters.

    It's like if I was doing a movie on the Nutcracker history, and I had several people who actually starred in the Nutcracker (on Broadway?) over the years, but said nah.. I don't need or want your input, I will just ask some people who watched Cats or Cirque-De-Soleil from the audience.

    Some of y'alls fears are borderline hysteria.
    You get to give as much input as you like here as well as twitter, no one is excluding you.
    Repeat after me: "It's going to be O.K."
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    GeneralXIV wrote: »
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    This is the problem with pride--if you cannot submit to authority, then you are weak. Plain and simple,

    I just want to say, I disagree with this. Questioning authority takes more strength than following orders, imo. Saying yes is very easy. Saying no... not so much.


    But, back to the topic. I dont believe DICE should have another forum for combat veterans. I mean, why? Military or non-military, everyone can share their opinions here and just because people have fought in wars irl doesnt give them any amount of ability to know whats right for a video game. War is horrific, video games are fun. *shrug* I imagine people are already consulted and research done during the games development so for feedback... there is nothing making the opinions of combat veterans more informed, more accurate or in any way more valid than any other persons, making it a waste of time to have a forum especially dedicated for them. It would be more appropriate to have views of other game developers tbh

    OMG.... so much hysteria that there might be a private forum that you might not "qualify" to post in. There is Reddit, there is these forums, there is https://answers.ea.com/t5/Game-Information/bd-p/battlefield-v-game-information-en , there is twitter, there are subsections to these forums for PC issues, PS4 and XBOX, there are so many places to give input. You guys act like DICE is even reading this thread or would even consider it---I WISH! :)

    Damn! Ok last analogy, because some of you still don't get it.. if I was making a football video game, I would want input from NFL players.. do you think people on their forums would whine and say "Why are you asking Peyton Manning for his input? We fans are just as knowledgeable!!!!1" I just don't get all the "disgust" for the idea.
    You are still important. You are still valuable. I want to give you all hugs right now.
  • GeneralXIV
    238 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    GeneralXIV wrote: »
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    This is the problem with pride--if you cannot submit to authority, then you are weak. Plain and simple,

    I just want to say, I disagree with this. Questioning authority takes more strength than following orders, imo. Saying yes is very easy. Saying no... not so much.


    But, back to the topic. I dont believe DICE should have another forum for combat veterans. I mean, why? Military or non-military, everyone can share their opinions here and just because people have fought in wars irl doesnt give them any amount of ability to know whats right for a video game. War is horrific, video games are fun. *shrug* I imagine people are already consulted and research done during the games development so for feedback... there is nothing making the opinions of combat veterans more informed, more accurate or in any way more valid than any other persons, making it a waste of time to have a forum especially dedicated for them. It would be more appropriate to have views of other game developers tbh

    OMG.... so much hysteria that there might be a private forum that you might not "qualify" to post in. There is Reddit, there is these forums, there is https://answers.ea.com/t5/Game-Information/bd-p/battlefield-v-game-information-en , there is twitter, there are subsections to these forums for PC issues, PS4 and XBOX, there are so many places to give input. You guys act like DICE is even reading this thread or would even consider it---I WISH! :)

    Damn! Ok last analogy, because some of you still don't get it.. if I was making a football video game, I would want input from NFL players.. do you think people on their forums would whine and say "Why are you asking Peyton Manning for his input? We fans are just as knowledgeable!!!!1" I just don't get all the "disgust" for the idea.
    You are still important. You are still valuable. I want to give you all hugs right now.

    *blinks* Erm. Just because I disagree with you, doesnt make me hysterical? I have no idea how you gained that impression from my post. My point was that real war is nothing like a video game, and it makes the creation of the forum a little pointless. The NFL analogy is different, because football is a sport, it's for entertainment, and it can be transferred from medium to medium almost exactly. War is different, and video game war is very different to real war. It wouldnt be much different to what we already have on the forum - people who have no idea what theyre talking about shouting at the developers over every tiny insignificant detail :P
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Ok, maybe hysterical was a knee-jerk reaction to someone saying I was obsessing over this idea. I apologize.
    The NFL analogy is not different, in fact, it's PERFECT.. because I could say the same things you just said about how war doesn't translate into a war video game by pointing out the NFL is physically punishing.. sometimes career ending, concussions, comas, and yes, even death!
    Even the suicides (Jr. Seau, for example). I could point out that none of the above translate to a video game where no one gets hurt, no careers are ended, and no one really dies.
    I argue that Peyton Manning's input is so very valuable in an entirely different way than any fan's input. I'm saying this even though I know all the while a fan may know more individual players' statistics than Manning, the fan may be able to rattle off how many rings Joe Montana has, or how many Dan Marino doesn't have... But there is something that Manning brings that is tangible, that is real-world, that is how certain players are chosen over other players (by coaches, in drafts, or off the bench) He could tell about the time Warren Sapp intentionally stepped on his throwing hand when getting up from a pile of players (I just made that up for an example.. I actually like Warren Sapp and don't believe he was a 'dirty player')
    (Using lines to break up walls of text since this forum likes to ignore skipped lines.)
    But someone could argue, Peyton Manning could give input in the regular forums like everyone else... the problem is, there would be no way to tell is this really Peyton Manning or someone who signed up with his name? (We see vetting on Twitter, where someone has a checkmark next to their name because people used to have to resort to "TheRealMCHammer" but then you had fakes making names like "TheRealMCHammer", so Twitter decided to use verification). Back to the football video game analogy, I would want to know if I was talking to the real Walter Payton or the real Barry Sanders, and not some ****. If you argue that any casual or even hardcore fan would have as much real-world football knowledge as any of the professionals I just mentioned, then I guess the argument must end here because there is no getting through to such a person. I would rather hear from Barry Sanders about jukes and spin moves than you.. sorry if that just hurt your feelings. I would ask if there were crucial moments when he chose not to spin (too risky, 4th quarter and already have the lead, wet field, tricky defender known for stripping the ball) I would ask him if he ever changed the length of his cleats and for what situations... I would want to know all sorts of stuff from him that I would not want your input on. Sorry.. dems da breaks. He was there, you weren't.
    Lastly General, I wanted to respond to something else you said earlier:
    I just want to say, I disagree with this. Questioning authority takes more strength than following orders, imo. Saying yes is very easy. Saying no... not so much.

    This is also a logical fallacy (taking something out of context). The proper context is that when a man or woman enlists in the US Armed Forces, they raise their right hand and swear an oath to defend the country from all enemies foreign and domestic AND to obey all the orders of those placed in authority over them.
    So with the Heavyweight Chaump that thought it would be easy to be a Marine since he could whip men's axes, found out AFTER he swore to obey orders, that he couldn't do it. He didn't have it in him. We all, at one time or another, have disagreed with something we were ordered to do, not on philosophical or religious grounds, heck, we may have just been tired as hell, but never-the-less, you say "Roger First Sergeant" and then you shut your mouth and do the damn thing. You certainly don't question him, or say something stupid and immaterial like "But First Sergeant, we didn't get a lunch today." I have personally been hit, I have personally witnessed an E-7 get kicked across a room by an E-9... I also witnessed an E-7 who outranked another E-7 simply by Time in Grade, rip the other E-7 out of the front seat of HUMVEE while he was still seatbelted in... in other words, he pulled him through the seatbelt straps like a magic trick and threw him on the ground.
    You don't hear about this kind of stuff from the recruiter's office, you only hear the "Be all that you can be" nonsense. People get punched in the chest all the time, every single day in Uncle Sam's Army.. but no one reports it, because they can make your life a living hell, or as in my case, I had an E-9 threaten to kill me and leave out where the dogs of Afghanistan would scatter my limbs and no one would ever find me--he told me I would be "missing in action" forever. This guy was crazy---I did exactly what I was told to do, and I shut my mouth. If you consider that weak, then so-be-it.. it's a different life, and it's not for everyone.
    Sorry if my boldness with the truth tarnishes the "great" name of the US Army.
    War is hell.
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    I'm not bothered by it.. I'm showing you that what (almost) everyone in this thread is saying, does not line up with reality. For example: Everyone seems to be saying "reality is not really important--it's just a game" but then I bring up posts like the one I just showed (and I underlined the "irl" which means "In real life") because there are 300 posts per day complaining about something not being realistic. So which is it?

    That ignorant people are wrong about something doesn't mean you need to take them seriously just because there are lots of them. Any argument based on realism is dead on arrival, no need to fret over it.
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 5
    I recall someone on the BF 1 forums bringing a suggestion that if a team is losing 600 tickets to 200 tickets can they vote to surrender (to hasten the end of the round)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_military
    Currently, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 14 offenses are punishable by death. Under the following sections of the UCMJ, the death penalty can be imposed at any time:

    94 – Mutiny or sedition
    99 – Misbehavior before the enemy
    100 – Subordinate compelling surrender
    101 – Improper use of countersign
    102 – Forcing a safeguard
    104 – Aiding the enemy
    106a – Espionage
    110 – Improper hazarding of vessel
    118 – Murder
    120 – ****

    Another four provisions of the UCMJ carry a death sentence only if the crime is committed during times of war:

    85 – Desertion
    90 – Assaulting or willfully disobeying a superior commissioned officer
    106 – Lurking as a spy or acting as a spy
    113 – Misbehavior of a sentinel or lookout
    ----
    from the same source:
    "...Army Pvt. Eddie Slovik being executed in 1945 by firing squad for desertion."
  • sabootheshaman
    1121 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I love shooters. I love BFV. I respect veterans. I respect anyone who contributes to society.

    The constant requests by veterans and officers of the law etc. for special privileges in society however grinds my gears. Settle down. America seems obsessed with this. If you were conscripted though, then yeah you deserve extra.

    Stop asking for extra benefits for doing something you chose to do and got paid to do.

    DICE consult people when they need to.
    This is rad. A few ros short of a top paddock.

    You know I’m a later post you said not to stereotype people yet here you do exactly that.

    Calm down and don’t assume you know me. I was putting forward a case against you special forum.

    Clearly you’re someone who likes to denigrate others. Not exactly a shining beacon of the armed forces in my opinion.
  • DCSTomcat
    1055 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Combat (or non-combat) vets play games like Squad or ARMA, I seriously doubt they would be interested in Battlefield.
  • mav_smileyface
    1313 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Wow this thread went full tin foil real quick ! Real military input would be a total waste of everyone’s time, this is BFV not ASrMA3 realism is a mere novelty in battlefield
  • Ameriken05
    413 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Dude - you sound psycho and are giving combat vets a bad name. DICE/EA probably have plenty of military/combat advisers that are more qualified than you - and it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to do some basic research on this material, which clearly they do. And why would there need to be a separate forum - just make your suggestions on this forum and remind everyone 100 times in your post that you are some type of "combat veteran".

    The game does not need more military realism, but it could use some more immersive mechanics (that really have nothing to do with real combat experience). Namely I would like to see the following "combat elements" applied:

    - Command and Control via some sort of A/B VOIP channels (squad leaders to squad leaders, squad leaders to squad)
    - Would be good to have some sort of "commander" back in the game to help de-conflict squad objectives, maybe call in some special, special reinforcements
    - Would like to see some better looking tracer fire (War Thunder does a phenomenal job of making it look right)
    - Suppression should be a thing, and so MMGs should be even more of a thing.
    - Would like more focus on loadout tradeoffs - like ammo for gadgets, grenades, etc. (soldiers are all about their loadouts, because it's fun)
    - Would be cool to see a little more reasonable ballistics, balancing between different tanks/vehicles

    None of this would change the GAME too much (after all it is a game), but could be some more exciting layers of immersion. Now get over yourself.

    [CBRA] SturmSabreSix
  • kjgregoire
    116 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I kinda don’t care what combat veteran has to say about a battlefield game. And I doubt DICE cares either. Dumb idea.
  • Ameriken05
    413 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    kjgregoire wrote: »
    I kinda don’t care what combat veteran has to say about a battlefield game. And I doubt DICE cares either. Dumb idea.

    Yeah well it would be worth a lot more than what you have to say, that's for sure ;)

    But yeah let's face it, it's a game. It's the immersion and fun, not the realism that's important.
  • Ameriken05
    413 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Immersion can be partly based on perceived realism though.
  • Redstripe101
    2559 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Most major developing studios that release modern/historic fps games already have military advisor positions for this very reason. I think it being MOS specific is overkill. Why?
  • aRrAyStArTaT0
    786 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    This is starting to get really off topic.

    We should probably get back on topic or leave this thread.
This discussion has been closed.