Valentine MAA needs love.

Comments

  • Shrediron
    205 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »

    It is good a single fighter is not able to destroy a MAA, it gives a single player to much influence over the map. No the MAA does not have the same influence even going 26-0 is no different to other vehicles.


    ^ and this is the fundamental issue.

    Right now planes dominate over any other vehicle on the map. A good pilot can get cheater range kills on many maps. That in and of itself is blatantly unbalanced.

    This completely throws the balance of a match. Its putting too much power into the hands of one person. But for some reason they would rather deflect by arguing semantics, pointing fingers at people and screaming "git gud". The amount of commentary and harassment I have received in this tread about my "skill" based on a 2 minute video is laughable.

  • Draccon149
    38 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Draccon149 wrote: »
    No, it does not need a Buff, you are expecting the vale to kill stuka's in the same time as a flakpanzer kills a fighter plane?
    The video proves nothing expect you should not be in a MAA .

    Flakpanzer needs to be nerfed, IMO all AA needs to be toned back. I think it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless. Went from fine to worthless to OP, dice can't seem to get it right.
    555, good one AA was fine before the patch, guess it should not be a suprize that pro plane player makes such ridiculous claims.

    I think you misunderstood him, he said it was good before, then after the pulnetimate patch (when proximity fuses on AA broke) it was worthless, then in the last patch they made the Wirbelwind's stock cannon rounds (WWIND_FLAK38_AA_Firing) OP accidentally due to poor coding, so it's dealing double intended blast damage.

    The real problem with balancing IMO, is that you have incredibly competent fighter mains, and the question is whether an AA user should require an 'equal' degree of skill in order to counter them?

    Currently there is a trade off, if you want to counter SPAA you need to be a fighter with RP-3 rockets, in which case you are not as good vs air superiority fighters as you use the VB/ Mosquito not the VA... And if you go the bomber route, you are more vulnerable to AA & enemy fighters.

    As it stands it takes a multitude more skill for a single fighter (with RP-3s) to solo kill a Wirbelwind than the inverse.
    No, stop putting words in others if he meant the pre-1st January patch he should have said so. Otherwise like any other time he is talking about the current patch. More specifically he talked about nerfing all AA which could be done by reverting back to 1st January patch.

    Wrong there is no proof that any coding regard flakpanzer is not correct. 1 Cannon doing more than the other 3 could be that DICE want to set it, so it is more in line with Valentine AA.

    Fighter v Bomber yet both suffer to MAA
    Light v Heavy Tank yet both suffer to bombers

    It is good a single fighter is not able to destroy a MAA, it gives a single player to much influence over the map. No the MAA does not have the same influence even going 26-0 is no different to other vehicles.

    Lol, he is right you misunderstood me. Are you even reading the threads or skimming through them?

    What does this say below?
    "I think it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless"

    I said it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless!

    In the end the current AA system is broken and needs to be reviewed. It favors the AA users currently, with the skill gap being almost non exsistant for the AA user. Versus the skill gap of a pilot, beside the skilless dogfighting of getting behind someone first. Not very many people can take a fighter and go 70 and 0, most people are crap at flying in this game and cannot identify ground targets with a fighter. Most people cant take a bomber and go 70-0.
  • ragnarok013
    3428 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Shrediron wrote: »

    I have taken the Wirbelwind out on Twisted Steel and one burst killed every single plane type with ease, at range, and without help. It is bugged and @rainkloud has outlined why in the last comment here: https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/comment/1459246#Comment_1459246
    I doubt it.
    What you are experiencing with the Wirbelwind isn’t intentional, it’s a bug, not balance.
    So the Valentine will get a nerf?
    In terms of my critique of your aim and positioning, it is harsh, but it is a FACT, and you will never see the top tankers either positioning, anticipating, aiming, or tracking the way you do, period. You should have expected him to return, you didn’t even relocate to a better firing or hiding position, you allowed him to sneak you with tree cover. You can choose to improve and practice, or you can choose to ignore my harsh, yet true and helpful, critique, and blame it on a lack of gun elevation, or damage output (which frankly you HAVE to factor in to your gameplay anyway, so really isn’t an excuse even if valid.)

    As I previously stated I was en route when I got attacked by the plane. There was infantry in front of F and infantry behind me. Surely you know how fast a light armored tank gets taken out by infantry. I dont play the game to sit on the outskirts as I stated, I play for objectives. My entire purpose in recording that video was to record the damage output to diagnose what others have complained about in regards to AA damage. The fact is stationary AA can not take down bombers, not even as an engineer unless the plane is already damaged.
    The Valentine seems to be middle of the road and the current setup was changed for that match because the other cannons were not doing any better.
    As for wanting to see me do better I don’t have any videos with SPAA other than this:
    Flakpanzers taking out fighters in 3 seconds. Good. I do the same all day long (when I am in a tank). By contrast bombers 1 shot entire squads and tanks. Balance.
    I rarely play the SPAA, I prefer medium tanks, but I have a lot more recorded clips including one where I take down every single plane on the map during a round of Twisted Steel, the majority are one burst kills, even at range, and some are frankly unbelievable kills, but it’s broken, so I can’t really take credit, it’s cheap, and one bursting bombers as they come out of spawn from across the map feels like borderline cheating.
    post the unedited video.
    As for you calling me a camper, if there was a leaderboard for objectives captured in a tank, I would bet I’m in the top 5-10 globally. I’m not sure why this is relevant to the points I was making, but whatever, I feel the need to defend the accusation, despite tanks not being particularly well balanced for PTFO playstyles (despite my protests as I am a PTFO player at heart).

    You critiqued my play style without me asking, is it not fair that I return the favor?

    Look man, it’s not just me, there are even self-proclaimed noobs claiming rounds like these on the forums with over 5-6 pages of comments:

    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/179518/one-single-round-18-planes-destroyed-26kills-0-death-this-vehicle-is-way-too-powerful/p1

    Everyone knows the Wirbelwind is completely broken, GTFO, you’re not going to persuade anybody, especially not with a video that could honestly be you trolling.

    I really don’t know what the hell you expect?! If you make SPAA so noob friendly anybody can one burst bombers from across the map then actual skilled players will make air entirely redundant. You really have no clue what you’re asking for in terms of balance. My two most played classes are tanker and pilot. The amount of skill taken to solo an SPAA right now compared to solo a plane is an enormous chasm. They aren’t even remotely comparable. This guy used one of the best tactics, he used tree cover to take advantage of your terrible positioning. Also if I was expecting a Stuka with a 1000kg bomb to return, I would be making it my absolute priority to give myself all the advantages, not the inverse. What happens in this video is your own damn fault, and if you ever want to be taken seriously you need to own up to that and improve. I’m sorry it sounds so harsh, but I have no patience for players that ask for nerfs or buffs without first recognising there is actually a learning curve, and that there are plenty of improvements they can make to their gameplay before they cry buff/ nerf. That’s why I thought your video was trolling.

    @WinterWarhurst just a reminder to keep the profanity out of the forums even if used colloquially.
    @Shrediron disputing your position is not harassment. If you're getting tilted I suggest that you close your browser and take a short breather before re-engaging on the forums.
    
    
  • DingoKillr
    3734 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Draccon149 wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Draccon149 wrote: »
    No, it does not need a Buff, you are expecting the vale to kill stuka's in the same time as a flakpanzer kills a fighter plane?
    The video proves nothing expect you should not be in a MAA .

    Flakpanzer needs to be nerfed, IMO all AA needs to be toned back. I think it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless. Went from fine to worthless to OP, dice can't seem to get it right.
    555, good one AA was fine before the patch, guess it should not be a suprize that pro plane player makes such ridiculous claims.

    I think you misunderstood him, he said it was good before, then after the pulnetimate patch (when proximity fuses on AA broke) it was worthless, then in the last patch they made the Wirbelwind's stock cannon rounds (WWIND_FLAK38_AA_Firing) OP accidentally due to poor coding, so it's dealing double intended blast damage.

    The real problem with balancing IMO, is that you have incredibly competent fighter mains, and the question is whether an AA user should require an 'equal' degree of skill in order to counter them?

    Currently there is a trade off, if you want to counter SPAA you need to be a fighter with RP-3 rockets, in which case you are not as good vs air superiority fighters as you use the VB/ Mosquito not the VA... And if you go the bomber route, you are more vulnerable to AA & enemy fighters.

    As it stands it takes a multitude more skill for a single fighter (with RP-3s) to solo kill a Wirbelwind than the inverse.
    No, stop putting words in others if he meant the pre-1st January patch he should have said so. Otherwise like any other time he is talking about the current patch. More specifically he talked about nerfing all AA which could be done by reverting back to 1st January patch.

    Wrong there is no proof that any coding regard flakpanzer is not correct. 1 Cannon doing more than the other 3 could be that DICE want to set it, so it is more in line with Valentine AA.

    Fighter v Bomber yet both suffer to MAA
    Light v Heavy Tank yet both suffer to bombers

    It is good a single fighter is not able to destroy a MAA, it gives a single player to much influence over the map. No the MAA does not have the same influence even going 26-0 is no different to other vehicles.

    Lol, he is right you misunderstood me. Are you even reading the threads or skimming through them?

    What does this say below?
    "I think it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless"

    I said it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless!

    In the end the current AA system is broken and needs to be reviewed. It favors the AA users currently, with the skill gap being almost non exsistant for the AA user. Versus the skill gap of a pilot, beside the skilless dogfighting of getting behind someone first. Not very many people can take a fighter and go 70 and 0, most people are crap at flying in this game and cannot identify ground targets with a fighter. Most people cant take a bomber and go 70-0.
    Did you even read my response to you? No, I guess not as I did not even talk about which patch or even cared. Your defender did for some reason.

    Yer it is broken it still favors planes to much. Skill gap 555, why should AA be any more difficult to use then AT cannon or heavy MG, oh that right anything that can counter planes is skill less as only pilots have skills.

    What so we needed to nerf AA so pilot can go 70-0. How about we buff AA instead so we can go 100-0 wait that is what you pilots whinging about now when they only going 26-0 yet you think it is fine for pilots to do better because they are so skilled.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Draccon149 wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Draccon149 wrote: »
    No, it does not need a Buff, you are expecting the vale to kill stuka's in the same time as a flakpanzer kills a fighter plane?
    The video proves nothing expect you should not be in a MAA .

    Flakpanzer needs to be nerfed, IMO all AA needs to be toned back. I think it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless. Went from fine to worthless to OP, dice can't seem to get it right.
    555, good one AA was fine before the patch, guess it should not be a suprize that pro plane player makes such ridiculous claims.

    I think you misunderstood him, he said it was good before, then after the pulnetimate patch (when proximity fuses on AA broke) it was worthless, then in the last patch they made the Wirbelwind's stock cannon rounds (WWIND_FLAK38_AA_Firing) OP accidentally due to poor coding, so it's dealing double intended blast damage.

    The real problem with balancing IMO, is that you have incredibly competent fighter mains, and the question is whether an AA user should require an 'equal' degree of skill in order to counter them?

    Currently there is a trade off, if you want to counter SPAA you need to be a fighter with RP-3 rockets, in which case you are not as good vs air superiority fighters as you use the VB/ Mosquito not the VA... And if you go the bomber route, you are more vulnerable to AA & enemy fighters.

    As it stands it takes a multitude more skill for a single fighter (with RP-3s) to solo kill a Wirbelwind than the inverse.
    No, stop putting words in others if he meant the pre-1st January patch he should have said so. Otherwise like any other time he is talking about the current patch. More specifically he talked about nerfing all AA which could be done by reverting back to 1st January patch.

    Wrong there is no proof that any coding regard flakpanzer is not correct. 1 Cannon doing more than the other 3 could be that DICE want to set it, so it is more in line with Valentine AA.

    Fighter v Bomber yet both suffer to MAA
    Light v Heavy Tank yet both suffer to bombers

    It is good a single fighter is not able to destroy a MAA, it gives a single player to much influence over the map. No the MAA does not have the same influence even going 26-0 is no different to other vehicles.

    Lol, he is right you misunderstood me. Are you even reading the threads or skimming through them?

    What does this say below?
    "I think it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless"

    I said it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless!

    In the end the current AA system is broken and needs to be reviewed. It favors the AA users currently, with the skill gap being almost non exsistant for the AA user. Versus the skill gap of a pilot, beside the skilless dogfighting of getting behind someone first. Not very many people can take a fighter and go 70 and 0, most people are crap at flying in this game and cannot identify ground targets with a fighter. Most people cant take a bomber and go 70-0.

    It was so clear what you meant, I don’t understand why this guy got so aggravated with me for clarifying it further. It’s quite sad to tell the truth, if people get more than 40 kills in a plane people seem to lose their minds despite the fact infantry are doing it game after game in nearly every single server I join. Why there is such a double standard when the game has some pretty concrete counters is beyond me. People seem to want to counter high skilled players easily with a lack of skill on their behalf. It’s pretty selfish IMO.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 6
    Shrediron wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »

    It is good a single fighter is not able to destroy a MAA, it gives a single player to much influence over the map. No the MAA does not have the same influence even going 26-0 is no different to other vehicles.


    ^ and this is the fundamental issue.

    Right now planes dominate over any other vehicle on the map. A good pilot can get cheater range kills on many maps. That in and of itself is blatantly unbalanced.

    This completely throws the balance of a match. Its putting too much power into the hands of one person. But for some reason they would rather deflect by arguing semantics, pointing fingers at people and screaming "git gud". The amount of commentary and harassment I have received in this tread about my "skill" based on a 2 minute video is laughable.


    You have received commentary because you basically tacitly asked for it.

    You came here to self-indulgently pontificate with mere opinion, and couldn’t handle the fact more experienced players pointed out weaknesses in your play style, and skill level.

    If you do not like it, do not post your opinion to a public forum where you will be perceived as what you in fact are.

    I have explained in concrete detail how you can improve. I have provided you with tips to make your gameplay more successful, but you prefer to report me to moderators for ‘harrasment’.

    You need to practice. You need to improve. It is as simple as that. Plenty of people have no problems in these vehicles. My friend who I play with every week, one of the top competitive tankers out there, often breaks 100 kills in the Valentine SPAA in regular rounds of conquest. It is not underpowered. It, like any other vehicle or class in game, rewards skill, practice, and ultimately dedication.

    Planes are not dominating Wirbelwinds right now, Wirbelwinds are dominating planes. The most viable counter is coordinated RP-3 rocket attacks from range. If the factions are reversed and they have poor positioning they can be punished with 1000kg bombs as the Stuka did to you, or even 37mms if the SPAA is clueless, or baited with another plane. Either way, it usually takes two planes to defeat 1 competent SPAA in the current meta.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Draccon149 wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Draccon149 wrote: »
    No, it does not need a Buff, you are expecting the vale to kill stuka's in the same time as a flakpanzer kills a fighter plane?
    The video proves nothing expect you should not be in a MAA .

    Flakpanzer needs to be nerfed, IMO all AA needs to be toned back. I think it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless. Went from fine to worthless to OP, dice can't seem to get it right.
    555, good one AA was fine before the patch, guess it should not be a suprize that pro plane player makes such ridiculous claims.

    I think you misunderstood him, he said it was good before, then after the pulnetimate patch (when proximity fuses on AA broke) it was worthless, then in the last patch they made the Wirbelwind's stock cannon rounds (WWIND_FLAK38_AA_Firing) OP accidentally due to poor coding, so it's dealing double intended blast damage.

    The real problem with balancing IMO, is that you have incredibly competent fighter mains, and the question is whether an AA user should require an 'equal' degree of skill in order to counter them?

    Currently there is a trade off, if you want to counter SPAA you need to be a fighter with RP-3 rockets, in which case you are not as good vs air superiority fighters as you use the VB/ Mosquito not the VA... And if you go the bomber route, you are more vulnerable to AA & enemy fighters.

    As it stands it takes a multitude more skill for a single fighter (with RP-3s) to solo kill a Wirbelwind than the inverse.
    No, stop putting words in others if he meant the pre-1st January patch he should have said so. Otherwise like any other time he is talking about the current patch. More specifically he talked about nerfing all AA which could be done by reverting back to 1st January patch.

    Wrong there is no proof that any coding regard flakpanzer is not correct. 1 Cannon doing more than the other 3 could be that DICE want to set it, so it is more in line with Valentine AA.

    Fighter v Bomber yet both suffer to MAA
    Light v Heavy Tank yet both suffer to bombers

    It is good a single fighter is not able to destroy a MAA, it gives a single player to much influence over the map. No the MAA does not have the same influence even going 26-0 is no different to other vehicles.

    Lol, he is right you misunderstood me. Are you even reading the threads or skimming through them?

    What does this say below?
    "I think it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless"

    I said it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless!

    In the end the current AA system is broken and needs to be reviewed. It favors the AA users currently, with the skill gap being almost non exsistant for the AA user. Versus the skill gap of a pilot, beside the skilless dogfighting of getting behind someone first. Not very many people can take a fighter and go 70 and 0, most people are crap at flying in this game and cannot identify ground targets with a fighter. Most people cant take a bomber and go 70-0.
    Did you even read my response to you? No, I guess not as I did not even talk about which patch or even cared. Your defender did for some reason.

    Yer it is broken it still favors planes to much. Skill gap 555, why should AA be any more difficult to use then AT cannon or heavy MG, oh that right anything that can counter planes is skill less as only pilots have skills.

    What so we needed to nerf AA so pilot can go 70-0. How about we buff AA instead so we can go 100-0 wait that is what you pilots whinging about now when they only going 26-0 yet you think it is fine for pilots to do better because they are so skilled.

    It doesn’t favour planes too much, the Wirbelwind is bugged, it’s dealing effectively the blast damage of 8 barrels instead of 4, it has been well outlined in the forums. It is the reason I am one burst killing every plane all game long on maps from range with ease.

    The self-proclaimed ‘noob’ that went 26-0 just played it as a test to see why everyone was saying it was broken... I have friends that break 100 kills almost daily in SPAA, on conquest maps, so seriously don’t use straw man arguments from threads you evidentially haven’t read.

    If a pilot is doing that well, then they have poured countless hours into practicing most likely, whereas I can guarantee the people using SPAA against them have very little experience and practice. Currently an equally skilled AA user will shut down the airspace, unless they have rockets. A Wirbelwind will currently annihilate any plane with a competent tanker.

    The problem is that low skilled AA users constantly go up against top skilled pilots and lose every time. It’s like playing a game of chess against a grandmaster and complaining the queen is too powerful because they are checkmating you with it every single time. It is the same reason you do not take a medic SMG and go counter-sniping with it.

    If you want to go up against top pilots, you need to be a top anti-pilot player. If you think this is unfair, then so be it. When I load in a server and see a pilot doing really well, I will jump in a fighter and take them down, or attempt to regain air superiority, but I have thousands of kills in planes and I know what I’m doing. Or now I may even get in a Wirbelwind and sneak kill them in a single burst before they have time to react, and then remain out of my range until they can sneak bomb me. It is complicated. It is a mind game a lot of the time. You can’t expect any old scrub to be able to kill a top skilled player with ease.
  • Draccon149
    38 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 6
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Draccon149 wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Draccon149 wrote: »
    No, it does not need a Buff, you are expecting the vale to kill stuka's in the same time as a flakpanzer kills a fighter plane?
    The video proves nothing expect you should not be in a MAA .

    Flakpanzer needs to be nerfed, IMO all AA needs to be toned back. I think it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless. Went from fine to worthless to OP, dice can't seem to get it right.
    555, good one AA was fine before the patch, guess it should not be a suprize that pro plane player makes such ridiculous claims.

    I think you misunderstood him, he said it was good before, then after the pulnetimate patch (when proximity fuses on AA broke) it was worthless, then in the last patch they made the Wirbelwind's stock cannon rounds (WWIND_FLAK38_AA_Firing) OP accidentally due to poor coding, so it's dealing double intended blast damage.

    The real problem with balancing IMO, is that you have incredibly competent fighter mains, and the question is whether an AA user should require an 'equal' degree of skill in order to counter them?

    Currently there is a trade off, if you want to counter SPAA you need to be a fighter with RP-3 rockets, in which case you are not as good vs air superiority fighters as you use the VB/ Mosquito not the VA... And if you go the bomber route, you are more vulnerable to AA & enemy fighters.

    As it stands it takes a multitude more skill for a single fighter (with RP-3s) to solo kill a Wirbelwind than the inverse.
    No, stop putting words in others if he meant the pre-1st January patch he should have said so. Otherwise like any other time he is talking about the current patch. More specifically he talked about nerfing all AA which could be done by reverting back to 1st January patch.

    Wrong there is no proof that any coding regard flakpanzer is not correct. 1 Cannon doing more than the other 3 could be that DICE want to set it, so it is more in line with Valentine AA.

    Fighter v Bomber yet both suffer to MAA
    Light v Heavy Tank yet both suffer to bombers

    It is good a single fighter is not able to destroy a MAA, it gives a single player to much influence over the map. No the MAA does not have the same influence even going 26-0 is no different to other vehicles.

    Lol, he is right you misunderstood me. Are you even reading the threads or skimming through them?

    What does this say below?
    "I think it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless"

    I said it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless!

    In the end the current AA system is broken and needs to be reviewed. It favors the AA users currently, with the skill gap being almost non exsistant for the AA user. Versus the skill gap of a pilot, beside the skilless dogfighting of getting behind someone first. Not very many people can take a fighter and go 70 and 0, most people are crap at flying in this game and cannot identify ground targets with a fighter. Most people cant take a bomber and go 70-0.
    Did you even read my response to you? No, I guess not as I did not even talk about which patch or even cared. Your defender did for some reason.

    Yer it is broken it still favors planes to much. Skill gap 555, why should AA be any more difficult to use then AT cannon or heavy MG, oh that right anything that can counter planes is skill less as only pilots have skills.

    What so we needed to nerf AA so pilot can go 70-0. How about we buff AA instead so we can go 100-0 wait that is what you pilots whinging about now when they only going 26-0 yet you think it is fine for pilots to do better because they are so skilled.

    Yes i did read it.

    This is what you said

    "No, stop putting words in others if he meant the pre-1st January patch he should have said so."

    This is what i said

    "I think it was fine before the patch that broke it to be worthless"

    In turn would of been the pre-1st January patch....

    Based off your inital reply my comment i took it as you thinking i'm saying AA should of stayed broken to where it was being worthless and i'm not saying that at all it needed to be changed back to the original pre 1st patch, not this OP AA we have now. So 2 people understood your comment the same way, maybe you should work on your commuication if you ment otherwise, pretty sure more people can understand what i ment also.

    I'm saying the skill gap between someone being effective in AA versus a plane is a huge gap currently. Anyone can jump in a AA now and take out planes fairly easy. Let me you see you jump in a fighter and effectively farm infantry.

    BTW I mainly play infantry in this game. So, this is from a infantry players point of view.
  • TheSacar
    1005 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Shrediron wrote: »

    The Flakpanzer may be bugged, but its exactly where it needs to be.

    If that were true, it would have been easier for DICE to just remove fighters alltogether. Aparently this is how you think it (and the Valentine AA) should be:

    That is just absurd. There is absolutely no way to counter this.
    .
    This is the fastest I have died to a Flakpanzer yet. And no, I wasn't flying right at it, especially not the second time I am killed in the video.

  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TheSacar wrote: »
    Shrediron wrote: »

    The Flakpanzer may be bugged, but its exactly where it needs to be.

    If that were true, it would have been easier for DICE to just remove fighters alltogether. Aparently this is how you think it (and the Valentine AA) should be:

    That is just absurd. There is absolutely no way to counter this.
    .
    This is the fastest I have died to a Flakpanzer yet. And no, I wasn't flying right at it, especially not the second time I am killed in the video.

    Yeah mate, I'm one bursting fighters and bombers this quick, it's farcical. Some of the people in this thread are in complete denial, it's pathetic.

    Next we'll be asking for coaxial MGs to be one hit kill because the PIAT is overpowered, or to buff the Thompson smg because it can't counter-snipe lmao.
  • TheGM86
    812 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Get a clue OP. The Valentine AA smokes infantry to the point they become too tender at getting atomized over and over and will throw the game in attempt to kill you, but they can't, Because it is the Anti-All Tank.
  • Shrediron
    205 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TheSacar wrote: »
    Shrediron wrote: »

    The Flakpanzer may be bugged, but its exactly where it needs to be.

    If that were true, it would have been easier for DICE to just remove fighters alltogether. Aparently this is how you think it (and the Valentine AA) should be:

    That is just absurd. There is absolutely no way to counter this.
    .
    This is the fastest I have died to a Flakpanzer yet. And no, I wasn't flying right at it, especially not the second time I am killed in the video.

    And exactly how does infantry or ground vehicles counter being 1 shot by a plane flying in low (dont see or hear them)?

    Your entire argument is hypocritical. You expect to be able to 1 shot people with bombers, shoot down other fighters in a couple seconds, but god forbid someone on the ground take your plane down.

    As long as bombers get easy mode green reticle bombing with the ability to 1 shot vehicles and entire squads, I see no reason why the flakpanzer should not stay as it is.

  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Shrediron wrote: »
    TheSacar wrote: »
    Shrediron wrote: »

    The Flakpanzer may be bugged, but its exactly where it needs to be.

    If that were true, it would have been easier for DICE to just remove fighters alltogether. Aparently this is how you think it (and the Valentine AA) should be:

    That is just absurd. There is absolutely no way to counter this.
    .
    This is the fastest I have died to a Flakpanzer yet. And no, I wasn't flying right at it, especially not the second time I am killed in the video.

    And exactly how does infantry or ground vehicles counter being 1 shot by a plane flying in low (dont see or hear them)?

    Your entire argument is hypocritical. You expect to be able to 1 shot people with bombers, shoot down other fighters in a couple seconds, but god forbid someone on the ground take your plane down.

    As long as bombers get easy mode green reticle bombing with the ability to 1 shot vehicles and entire squads, I see no reason why the flakpanzer should not stay as it is.

    Ok I think my original suspicions have been confirmed, you're trolling right? You really think what you witnessed in that video is balanced?
  • Shrediron
    205 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Shrediron wrote: »
    TheSacar wrote: »
    Shrediron wrote: »

    The Flakpanzer may be bugged, but its exactly where it needs to be.

    If that were true, it would have been easier for DICE to just remove fighters alltogether. Aparently this is how you think it (and the Valentine AA) should be:

    That is just absurd. There is absolutely no way to counter this.
    .
    This is the fastest I have died to a Flakpanzer yet. And no, I wasn't flying right at it, especially not the second time I am killed in the video.

    And exactly how does infantry or ground vehicles counter being 1 shot by a plane flying in low (dont see or hear them)?

    Your entire argument is hypocritical. You expect to be able to 1 shot people with bombers, shoot down other fighters in a couple seconds, but god forbid someone on the ground take your plane down.

    As long as bombers get easy mode green reticle bombing with the ability to 1 shot vehicles and entire squads, I see no reason why the flakpanzer should not stay as it is.

    Ok I think my original suspicions have been confirmed, you're trolling right? You really think what you witnessed in that video is balanced?

    No, I am not trolling but the hypocrisy from your camp is astonishing. You fully expect planes to dominate.

    Answer me this. Why is it fair and balanced for a plane to go 75-4 in a match pretty much uncontested, being able to 1 shot everything on the map but when a tank kills a FIGHTER in 2-3 seconds, you think its unbalanced.

    I am waiting. Why is it fair that planes go uncontested, because that is what you are asking for.

    Stationary AA right now is trash. Mobile AA right now is sub par, only the flakpanzer is balanced.
  • Desyatnik_Pansy
    1465 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Shrediron wrote: »
    a tank kills a FIGHTER in 2-3 seconds, you think its unbalanced.

    In the video provided, he died even quicker than that, despite not actually flying directly into the AA Fire.
  • Shrediron
    205 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Shrediron wrote: »
    a tank kills a FIGHTER in 2-3 seconds, you think its unbalanced.

    In the video provided, he died even quicker than that, despite not actually flying directly into the AA Fire.

    Fair enough, but do you think that bad net code could come in to play for a fraction of that time?

    Until plane damage is reduced, bombs are reduced and the green easy mode reticle is removed, I see no reason to logic whatsoever to consider that planes are balanced and AA is all OP.
  • Shrediron
    205 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TheSacar wrote: »
    Shrediron wrote: »

    The Flakpanzer may be bugged, but its exactly where it needs to be.

    If that were true, it would have been easier for DICE to just remove fighters alltogether. Aparently this is how you think it (and the Valentine AA) should be:

    That is just absurd. There is absolutely no way to counter this.
    .
    This is the fastest I have died to a Flakpanzer yet. And no, I wasn't flying right at it, especially not the second time I am killed in the video.

    No, I dont think the valentine should be that way, but it should be much better than what it is now. Its a joke.

    But as far as being absurd...no, what is absurd is that pilots can go 75-100 kills in a match with very few deaths. Ranking the points and doing very little because they are uncontested. THE ONLY AA that exists in game now that gives pilots a run for their money, ESPECIALLY BOMBERS is the Flakpanzer.

    The amount of time it takes to kill a bomber with a valentine is a joke compared to how fast a plane can kill anything (one shot) on the playfield.

    256xnqa.jpg
  • tamatem13
    156 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I think (subjective) all Allied tanks need love (minus the Staghound).
  • Desyatnik_Pansy
    1465 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Shrediron wrote: »
    Shrediron wrote: »
    a tank kills a FIGHTER in 2-3 seconds, you think its unbalanced.

    In the video provided, he died even quicker than that, despite not actually flying directly into the AA Fire.

    Fair enough, but do you think that bad net code could come in to play for a fraction of that time?

    Until plane damage is reduced, bombs are reduced and the green easy mode reticle is removed, I see no reason to logic whatsoever to consider that planes are balanced and AA is all OP.

    All AA Isn't OP Though, and I don't think I've seen anyone credible stating this. What people are stating is that the Wirbelwind is broken and not working as intended, which is somewhat proven by that one Redditor (not entirely since I personally haven't seen anyone at DICE Come out and confirm it, but it makes sense to me).

    I can't comment on anything regarding plane balance though. I don't fly at all often, I don't enjoy it and at the same time I don't particularly find myself experiencing huge issues with regards to pilots. All I can really say about them is I'd much rather be facing a Ju-88A Than the Ilya Muromets on BF1 After it got that insane buff.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 7
    Shrediron wrote: »
    Shrediron wrote: »
    TheSacar wrote: »
    Shrediron wrote: »

    The Flakpanzer may be bugged, but its exactly where it needs to be.

    If that were true, it would have been easier for DICE to just remove fighters alltogether. Aparently this is how you think it (and the Valentine AA) should be:

    That is just absurd. There is absolutely no way to counter this.
    .
    This is the fastest I have died to a Flakpanzer yet. And no, I wasn't flying right at it, especially not the second time I am killed in the video.

    And exactly how does infantry or ground vehicles counter being 1 shot by a plane flying in low (dont see or hear them)?

    Your entire argument is hypocritical. You expect to be able to 1 shot people with bombers, shoot down other fighters in a couple seconds, but god forbid someone on the ground take your plane down.

    As long as bombers get easy mode green reticle bombing with the ability to 1 shot vehicles and entire squads, I see no reason why the flakpanzer should not stay as it is.

    Ok I think my original suspicions have been confirmed, you're trolling right? You really think what you witnessed in that video is balanced?

    No, I am not trolling but the hypocrisy from your camp is astonishing. You fully expect planes to dominate.

    Answer me this. Why is it fair and balanced for a plane to go 75-4 in a match pretty much uncontested, being able to 1 shot everything on the map but when a tank kills a FIGHTER in 2-3 seconds, you think its unbalanced.

    I am waiting. Why is it fair that planes go uncontested, because that is what you are asking for.

    Stationary AA right now is trash. Mobile AA right now is sub par, only the flakpanzer is balanced.

    Where on earth did I ask for planes to be uncontested? Your argument is a reductio ad absurdum logical fallacy, and even were it not, it is negated by the simple fact planes contest themselves. A bomber cannot exist with a competent air superiority fighter in the sky all things remaining equal, neither can a fighter without ordinance compete with SPAA.

    These things you call trash aren't trash, the only thing that is trash is your skill set regarding them. When I am trash at something in game, I do not pontificate to others how it should be balanced, because I know I speak from complete inexperience and lack of practice.

    To engage with your reductio ad absurdum logic, I explicitly mentioned the skill gap between killing the Wirbelwind as a plane vs killing a plane with the Wirbelwind; it isn't remotely close to even your own criteria for balance; who is the real hypocrite here therefore?

    Furthermore when there is something that can kill you in one hit, be it a V-1 or a Stuka's 1000kg bomb, you have to anticipate and adapt your gameplay to them. Also, you are lazily inflating and exaggerating the Wirbelwind's TTK... 2-3 seconds you say? The video clearly showed one in around 1.3 or so seconds. That literally means you agree it is broken and does double blast damage as that is clearly about half the TTK you say it should be. Yet you talk about these planes magically all being able to one hit kill SPAA, as if every plane and everyone is doing it, despite people pointing out to you how poor your positioning was, which you were rightly punished for. Read Sun-Tzu, attack your enemy when he is weak and you are strong, let them make the mistake. Beyond your user error, others have demonstrated that the files are bugged, yet you have remain defiant, as if in your wisdom and experience you could know better.

    I am simply done arguing with you; it is a complete waste of my time. No dev is ever going to seriously balance SPAA around someone who is so inexperienced with one.
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