Will DICE ever make another legit game?

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SecondAmendmnt
318 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
I actually enjoy BFV, but there’s such a disconnect with what fans want, plus lack of maps and meaningful content it gets old too quick. Can you guys sack current directors and return to where you came from? Battlefielders are waiting for this.

DICE needs to listen more and produce a finished product, not some evolving wreck. One that fixes issues and breaks others.

Thoughts?

Comments

  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I actually enjoy BFV, but there’s such a disconnect with what fans want, plus lack of maps and meaningful content it gets old too quick. Can you guys sack current directors and return to where you came from? Battlefielders are waiting for this.

    DICE needs to listen more and produce a finished product, not some evolving wreck. One that fixes issues and breaks others.

    Thoughts?

    How many players did you poll to come up with the claim that the game isn't what fans want? You didn't just base this on the often overheated rants posted here, did you? If you're a fan, and you enjoy playing BFV, how is it not what you want?

    What's a "fan", how many previous titles did someone have to buy to qualify?

    What is "meaningful content", the game already has a new map, some new weapons and vehicles, they're experimenting with game modes--so what else did you have in mind?

    If your post has a point I just don't see it.
  • Woodlbrad
    736 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Star wars and now this game not a chance they can't fix anything without breaking the game even more last ea or dice game I ever buy.
  • spartanx169x
    851 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I actually enjoy BFV, but there’s such a disconnect with what fans want, plus lack of maps and meaningful content it gets old too quick. Can you guys sack current directors and return to where you came from? Battlefielders are waiting for this.

    DICE needs to listen more and produce a finished product, not some evolving wreck. One that fixes issues and breaks others.

    Thoughts?

    How many players did you poll to come up with the claim that the game isn't what fans want? You didn't just base this on the often overheated rants posted here, did you? If you're a fan, and you enjoy playing BFV, how is it not what you want?

    What's a "fan", how many previous titles did someone have to buy to qualify?

    What is "meaningful content", the game already has a new map, some new weapons and vehicles, they're experimenting with game modes--so what else did you have in mind?

    If your post has a point I just don't see it.

    Come on man, be realistic. The fact is DICE/EA will not release population numbers. This tells everything. They are embarrassed by the player retention. The game has been out 3 months and not a peep about the actual population. OH OH and that 7.5 million copies or what ever it was, is a bogus number too because at least half of them are sales to retails chains. It it were a good number they would have said players not COPIES sold. We get it. You love the game, good for you. But its obvious the game has not done well. DICE even said that there was a problem with people playing the game, then turning it off and never touching it again I'm paraphasing but you get the point. Any adult can see that they(DICE) made this game to be "Hardcore Lite". While some players wanted that . Just on the numbers alone says that the masses didn't want that. Otherwise, the sales would reflect it, and EA would be bragging about player counts like they did for BF1. Last count on BF1 was 25 MILLION players played the game. Love it or hate it, again the numbers tell it all. BF1 is the most financially successful BF game to date. BF V would not even have the numbers it has if not for it going to 50% OFF AFTER THE FIRST TWO WEEKS. Right now on twitch BF V has 288 viewers in TOTAL at 10:30 on a sunday evening east coast time. Its not even in the top 150 games listed on Twitch , DID YOU READ THAT? TOP 150 of games on Twitch. NOT TOP TEn, NOT TOP FIFTY, NOT EVEN TOP ONE HUNDRED, Thats laughable.

    I think what OP was trying to say is, Whomever was/is in charge of the game needs to be reassigned(I would never even imply being fired). Whomever is in charge of the game, has no clue what they are doing this is obvious from the very first announcement of the mechanics in BF V and then the trailer, then the kneejerk reaction to TTK, then the BIGGER REVERSAL OF IT. And now we have got flickers when you die that will give you a headache. Whomever has been in charge made a game for themselves, not a game for the mass public and now we are seeing the results, poor sale, bad player retention and patches that have issues I've never seen in any game (strobe light like flickering upon death as one example,). Just for the record, I have played BFBC2, BF3, BF4, BF1, HL, and BFV.

    Lastly I could write a dissertation one mistakes with this game. Again any adult can see the mistakes and whoever is making the decisions should be reassigned, because the truth is from a financial perspective, without the casuals the game and series can't survive. I get it, you love the game, But don't be in denial of what has happened.
  • warslag
    1601 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    I can understand being angry or disappointed about your favourite game. Or even passionately arguing your case.

    But to demand that people should lose their jobs is way over the line, in my opinion.

    It also shows a lack of understanding and comprehension of how and why games are produced the way they are.

    There is demand for particular types of games out there which comes form the players themselves. The producers are not wrong in trying to make games that meet that demand.

    It could be that BFV hasn't yet gone far enough in the direction it's been going in order to appeal to more players, rather than in the direction you or someone else thinks it should.

    Firestorm was not available at release and has affected sales as stated in the quarterly report.

    It's these BR game modes that are soaking up all the players at the moment.
  • CaptainHardware
    303 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    They wanted to make a game they thought would retain players better then battlefield 1.

    I have no idea how they thought shifting away from so many things that made games before battlefield 1 great would do that. I saw I think Tiggr once say PUBG was a reason why they thought a 'harder' game could be popular and my thought was always WTF?

    If PUBG players wanted a harder shooter... PUBG is literally an evolution of ARMA which does wide scale betters even better then battlefield, and actually commits to a top to bottom theme. But ARMA has never been seriously popular because people don't like games with that much friction built into them. PUBG isn't a massive team based game, its a worry about a handful of people and things game.

    Really not sure what they were thinking. They wanted player retention but they made the game actively tedious, and made the player and the squad and vehicles (other then somehow... planes....) weak. Many changes have basically just proven that yeah, balancing a game this complex is hard in the best of times, and they took away some of the tools they used to balance the last several games.

    I think DICE can totally make another legit game, and actually they could fix BFV to be less tedious without actually scrapping anything, just adjusting a lot of values and the game could go all kinds of directions, but in total player terms it's already a lost cause in that respect. And I don't think DICE is willing or will be willing to significantly change the gameplay for months, if ever. They say they have a live service model, which should mean changes that would not happen under Premium could happen, but I've yet to see any indication this is more then code for releasing content slowly. The game doesn't feel like it's trying to evolve yet. It's early, maybe it will, but useful change requires DICE deciding they have a problem. I don't think they believe that. They want to 'perfect' what they released.

    BF4 had more people playing after 1 year then it did in the first 3 months, so turnarounds are possible, the massive bugs being a factor in why initial numbers were on the lower end just like BFV got off to a bad publicity start too, but I just can't see that happening with BFV. Social media ate it alive, while BF4 just needed to actually work. IN all other respects it was just this big expansion on BF3
  • Noodlesocks
    3450 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It's the lack of first-person shooter players at the Dice studios. If you've been around the last 3 years you can tell theres more emphasis on art rather than shooter gameplay. It's undeniable and explains the disconnect, they simply don't know nor understand what we want. The mix of devs over there probably has more artists than gameplay-focussed devs.

    They are good artists and they are good designers. It's immediately evident in their work. The game and it's core concepts are thoroughly designed but everything from gameplay down to the UI is generally under-developed. They don't seem to have any one working at Dice to ask whether or not their designs are practical. There doesn't seem to be anyone taking a step back from their design to ask the simple questions; "does this work?" and "is this fun?"
  • narnold700
    282 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I don't get it, what makes BF5 'harder?' I mean I'm doing better in BF5 then I did in BF1 and having more fun doing it so in my eyes BF1 was actually 'harder.' I played BF3 as well and also loved that BF game. I'm sure I would have liked BF4 too, but I wasn't able to play it when I came out as I didn't have a gaming pc at the time. I think the bad PR BF5 got before release, and how it was released as unfinished as it was is what has really hurt it. I really don't feel that the basic game play is all that bad. This isn't to suggest that some balancing isn't needed, but I just to buy this nonsense that the game play is fundamentally flawed and holding the game back.
  • rifle77
    104 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I actually enjoy BFV, but there’s such a disconnect with what fans want, plus lack of maps and meaningful content it gets old too quick. Can you guys sack current directors and return to where you came from? Battlefielders are waiting for this.

    DICE needs to listen more and produce a finished product, not some evolving wreck. One that fixes issues and breaks others.

    Thoughts?

    How many players did you poll to come up with the claim that the game isn't what fans want? You didn't just base this on the often overheated rants posted here, did you? If you're a fan, and you enjoy playing BFV, how is it not what you want?

    What's a "fan", how many previous titles did someone have to buy to qualify?

    What is "meaningful content", the game already has a new map, some new weapons and vehicles, they're experimenting with game modes--so what else did you have in mind?

    If your post has a point I just don't see it.

    And *snap*, the white knight appears out of thin air.
  • orangebionic
    232 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    dice lost it . Game is mediocre at best. i ve jumped into bfv yesterday, i couldnt bear to play more than two matches.
    I dont care about battleroyale, apex does it better.
    I dont care about co-op, with campaign bots thrown into online maps, farcry does it better, hell COD does it better.
    Its like they never were aware what make their games so good.All i need to see is any semi-decent objective based multiplayer fps to appear on the market and I will never put that bf disc to use anymore.
  • I-Soldat-I
    1644 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member

    How many players did you poll to come up with the claim that the game isn't what fans want? You didn't just base this on the often overheated rants posted here, did you? If you're a fan, and you enjoy playing BFV, how is it not what you want?

    What's a "fan", how many previous titles did someone have to buy to qualify?

    What is "meaningful content", the game already has a new map, some new weapons and vehicles, they're experimenting with game modes--so what else did you have in mind?

    If your post has a point I just don't see it.

    The DICE Fanboy appears!!! I agree 100% with the OP's views!!! Lack of maps, content and horrid existing maps as well as a major disconnect between DICE and its fanbase is causing players to leave this game sadly!!!

    The proof is the game sold poorly coming in 14th place. Not even the top 10! GTA V a several year old game came in 11th place

    venturebeat.com/2019/01/23/battlefield-vs-sales-are-more-like-hardline-than-battlefield-1/
  • SirTerrible
    1713 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    It's the lack of first-person shooter players at the Dice studios. If you've been around the last 3 years you can tell theres more emphasis on art rather than shooter gameplay. It's undeniable and explains the disconnect, they simply don't know nor understand what we want. The mix of devs over there probably has more artists than gameplay-focussed devs.

    I really wish I disagreed but all signs point to this being the case unfortunately.
  • ProAssassin2003
    3789 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    First Person Military shooters are dying. If it doesn't have Colorful Anime Characters Teens can Jack off to on Porn Hub they don't support it.
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I actually enjoy BFV, but there’s such a disconnect with what fans want, plus lack of maps and meaningful content it gets old too quick. Can you guys sack current directors and return to where you came from? Battlefielders are waiting for this.

    DICE needs to listen more and produce a finished product, not some evolving wreck. One that fixes issues and breaks others.

    Thoughts?

    How many players did you poll to come up with the claim that the game isn't what fans want? You didn't just base this on the often overheated rants posted here, did you? If you're a fan, and you enjoy playing BFV, how is it not what you want?

    What's a "fan", how many previous titles did someone have to buy to qualify?

    What is "meaningful content", the game already has a new map, some new weapons and vehicles, they're experimenting with game modes--so what else did you have in mind?

    If your post has a point I just don't see it.

    Come on man, be realistic. The fact is DICE/EA will not release population numbers. This tells everything. They are embarrassed by the player retention. The game has been out 3 months and not a peep about the actual population.
    So in your mind a lack of data is just as good as data because it allows us to make up anything we want because there are no numbers proving us wrong? Hey, how about I say that the lack of data means I can claim 95% of all BFV purchasers are still playing the game? How is that any less speculative than what you're doing?
    OH OH and that 7.5 million copies or what ever it was, is a bogus number too because at least half of them are sales to retails chains.
    If they don't release numbers you say it's because the game didn't sell well. If they say the game sold 7.3 million copies, you say that number is bogus. It really doesn't matter what they do, does it, you're ready to disbelieve it.
    It it were a good number they would have said players not COPIES sold.
    They're doing the same as Bluehole/PUBG Corp. which tells us how many copies have been sold and how many have been banned, even though we know both numbers involve a lot of multiple purchases and bans as players in China are banned and get another copy. This is hardly unique to EA. The only way we know how many players are in PUBG from month to month is by looking at the Steam charts, where over two thirds of the buyers are no longer playing. I don't know what that number Is for BFV, but neither do you.
    We get it. You love the game, good for you.
    No, you don't get that, I like BFV so far despite it's problems, but it isn't at the top of my gaming hit parade. I'm also not defending BFV or EA or DICE, actually I've made plenty of critical points about all three. What I dislike is the lazy, intellectually dishonest theatrical trash that is posted here every day by people consumed by a need to attack this game and its developer/publisher as if it's somehow personal for them. I still see players in the text chat grinding their teeth over the female/minority characters. I still see overheated rants that DICE Hates Recons (or whatever group of players you care to substitute), it's like EA/DICE has attacked their religion, punched their sister and stolen their car. Some posters here sound like they should be on suicide watch, over a video game, it's just not healthy.
    Right now on twitch BF V has 288 viewers in TOTAL at 10:30 on a sunday evening east coast time. Its not even in the top 150 games listed on Twitch , DID YOU READ THAT? TOP 150 of games on Twitch. NOT TOP TEn, NOT TOP FIFTY, NOT EVEN TOP ONE HUNDRED, Thats laughable.
    What is laughable to me is that anyone gives the tiniest damn what is being seen on Twitch. I realize the kids love that stuff, but I don't buy games based on what streamers are playing any more than I chose a restaurant based on where the Kardashians have been seen. PUBG has been very popular on Twitch and I walked away from that game, so I really don't care what the Twitch world likes or dislikes.
    I think what OP was trying to say is, Whomever was/is in charge of the game needs to be reassigned(I would never even imply being fired).
    I would. As I've said here before, I think EA should seriously consider another studio to do future BF titles. That isn't because BFV is the flaming train wreck some hysterical posters try to pretend it is (compared to BF4 this is picnic on a sunny day). It's because DICE seems to have lost focus, is fascinated by reinventing the wheel, and has proven yet again that things which were fixed in previous titles can turn up broken again. I see no good reason why BFV's network performance should have gone downhill from previous titles--that is has strongly suggests it's time for DICE (at least DICE Sweden) to work on something else while a different studio does BF.

    I think a lot of factors went into BFV not selling as well as EA hoped. One of them is other massively popular shooters like PUBG. The foolish political/cultural engineering didn't help, or the poor marketing campaign, or (I believe) EA's heavy-hand in making this a games as a service project which immediately called to mind SWBII--no player wants another game like that. EA gets a lot of the blame here, they got rid of rented servers, the backbone of the BF series for many years. Stripping server operators of full control over servers they paid for persuaded me not to buy BF1; I wonder how many have avoided BFV because they thought rented servers are the way to go and they don't like games without local admins to take out the trash?

    And don't get me started on these deep thinkers who insist that anyone who doesn't agree with today's We Hate BFV post is therefore a "fanboy". I've slammed EA and DICE with enthusiasm when I thought they deserved it, I just don't think these melodramatic rants should be taken seriously. Considering how much they claim to hate this game, I have to wonder why they're still here? Again, they're like those guys who are still trash-talking old girlfriends years after being dumped by them. If you hate BFV, okay, move on, play something else. What's so hard about that?

  • naitch44
    666 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Not whilst they have literally 0 QAs.

    I find it hard to believe the code they're writing is being tested.
  • bigiain
    327 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Working out what the fanbase wants is an impossible task in itself, there is no consensus. There are also a very loud minority who want a game that caters exclusively to their own play style and skill set and have no interest in the game being fun or even playable by the majority of players. Listening to them is never a good idea.

    The real problem to me seems to be time. The game has been released far too early and needs a lot of work. I don't get the complaints about the game being outright terrible, there is just a very long list of small fixes that need to be made.
  • SirBobdk
    4759 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @bigiain wrote
    Working out what the fanbase wants is an impossible task in itself, there is no consensus.
    True.
    BFV is neither apples or oranges, but a mix that tries to satisfy everyone, but instead makes many dissatisfied.
    Not sure what BFV tries to be or what playerbase it trying to attract, but it doesn't seem to work imo.
  • spartanx169x
    851 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I actually enjoy BFV, but there’s such a disconnect with what fans want, plus lack of maps and meaningful content it gets old too quick. Can you guys sack current directors and return to where you came from? Battlefielders are waiting for this.

    DICE needs to listen more and produce a finished product, not some evolving wreck. One that fixes issues and breaks others.

    Thoughts?

    How many players did you poll to come up with the claim that the game isn't what fans want? You didn't just base this on the often overheated rants posted here, did you? If you're a fan, and you enjoy playing BFV, how is it not what you want?

    What's a "fan", how many previous titles did someone have to buy to qualify?

    What is "meaningful content", the game already has a new map, some new weapons and vehicles, they're experimenting with game modes--so what else did you have in mind?

    If your post has a point I just don't see it.

    Come on man, be realistic. The fact is DICE/EA will not release population numbers. This tells everything. They are embarrassed by the player retention. The game has been out 3 months and not a peep about the actual population.
    So in your mind a lack of data is just as good as data because it allows us to make up anything we want because there are no numbers proving us wrong? Hey, how about I say that the lack of data means I can claim 95% of all BFV purchasers are still playing the game? How is that any less speculative than what you're doing?
    OH OH and that 7.5 million copies or what ever it was, is a bogus number too because at least half of them are sales to retails chains.
    If they don't release numbers you say it's because the game didn't sell well. If they say the game sold 7.3 million copies, you say that number is bogus. It really doesn't matter what they do, does it, you're ready to disbelieve it.
    It it were a good number they would have said players not COPIES sold.
    They're doing the same as Bluehole/PUBG Corp. which tells us how many copies have been sold and how many have been banned, even though we know both numbers involve a lot of multiple purchases and bans as players in China are banned and get another copy. This is hardly unique to EA. The only way we know how many players are in PUBG from month to month is by looking at the Steam charts, where over two thirds of the buyers are no longer playing. I don't know what that number Is for BFV, but neither do you.
    We get it. You love the game, good for you.
    No, you don't get that, I like BFV so far despite it's problems, but it isn't at the top of my gaming hit parade. I'm also not defending BFV or EA or DICE, actually I've made plenty of critical points about all three. What I dislike is the lazy, intellectually dishonest theatrical trash that is posted here every day by people consumed by a need to attack this game and its developer/publisher as if it's somehow personal for them. I still see players in the text chat grinding their teeth over the female/minority characters. I still see overheated rants that DICE Hates Recons (or whatever group of players you care to substitute), it's like EA/DICE has attacked their religion, punched their sister and stolen their car. Some posters here sound like they should be on suicide watch, over a video game, it's just not healthy.
    Right now on twitch BF V has 288 viewers in TOTAL at 10:30 on a sunday evening east coast time. Its not even in the top 150 games listed on Twitch , DID YOU READ THAT? TOP 150 of games on Twitch. NOT TOP TEn, NOT TOP FIFTY, NOT EVEN TOP ONE HUNDRED, Thats laughable.
    What is laughable to me is that anyone gives the tiniest damn what is being seen on Twitch. I realize the kids love that stuff, but I don't buy games based on what streamers are playing any more than I chose a restaurant based on where the Kardashians have been seen. PUBG has been very popular on Twitch and I walked away from that game, so I really don't care what the Twitch world likes or dislikes.
    I think what OP was trying to say is, Whomever was/is in charge of the game needs to be reassigned(I would never even imply being fired).
    I would. As I've said here before, I think EA should seriously consider another studio to do future BF titles. That isn't because BFV is the flaming train wreck some hysterical posters try to pretend it is (compared to BF4 this is picnic on a sunny day). It's because DICE seems to have lost focus, is fascinated by reinventing the wheel, and has proven yet again that things which were fixed in previous titles can turn up broken again. I see no good reason why BFV's network performance should have gone downhill from previous titles--that is has strongly suggests it's time for DICE (at least DICE Sweden) to work on something else while a different studio does BF.

    I think a lot of factors went into BFV not selling as well as EA hoped. One of them is other massively popular shooters like PUBG. The foolish political/cultural engineering didn't help, or the poor marketing campaign, or (I believe) EA's heavy-hand in making this a games as a service project which immediately called to mind SWBII--no player wants another game like that. EA gets a lot of the blame here, they got rid of rented servers, the backbone of the BF series for many years. Stripping server operators of full control over servers they paid for persuaded me not to buy BF1; I wonder how many have avoided BFV because they thought rented servers are the way to go and they don't like games without local admins to take out the trash?

    And don't get me started on these deep thinkers who insist that anyone who doesn't agree with today's We Hate BFV post is therefore a "fanboy". I've slammed EA and DICE with enthusiasm when I thought they deserved it, I just don't think these melodramatic rants should be taken seriously. Considering how much they claim to hate this game, I have to wonder why they're still here? Again, they're like those guys who are still trash-talking old girlfriends years after being dumped by them. If you hate BFV, okay, move on, play something else. What's so hard about that?

    Dude you are too funny. But a few things...

    1. I don't hate DICE or EA unlike so many people do. My only comments about them are that whomever has made the decisions about BFV have been in over their heads from the start. Its obvious that whoever that is in charge, didn't and still doesn't have the experience to manage the game. I could make a list, but I won't bother.

    2. I don't hate BF V. I would not have put in nearly 50 hrs of playtime if I hated the game. Feel free to look up my IDs- spartan x169x and xsubzerox169x. Yes I have two IDs, well actually three, I have a third on PS4, but I got BF V on XBX.


    I also agree with you that there are multiple factors that have hurt promotion and sales of the game, I personally think the SJW stuff was tiny in comparison to everything else that has followed.
    As for the the numbers, I could go into further detail but I won't bother. I know people like you, speaking of girlfriends, it appears you are the type that would ignore every sign that your BF/BF(whoever) is cheating on you right up until you walk in on them. The only thing you would accept would be for DICE and or EA to explicitly state the games numbers. I can only assume you don't have a lot, if any experience reading thru the BS that CEOs spew. Believe what ever makes you happy, it doesn't matter, the game will have a healthy population for at least a year and half.

    There is really no need to get so worked up about the game, Its just a game, its just game. :)
  • gibonez
    296 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DICE needs to take the positive feedback from maps like panzerstorm and focus on sandbox gameplay that those maps provide.
    The trend towards smaller more infantry focused maps needs to go.
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